Revelations from Patch 3.5

It's a good thing that we defeated the triad in the order that we did, huh?

http://i.imgur.com/49SjjTC.jpg

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Originally Posted by Torquil

There are mitigating circumstances with many of those entities. Bahamut was literally still in the process of being re-constructed. Alexander WANTED to be defeated. Voidsents, even royalty, are generally considered lesser threats than top tier primals. Thordan only had one eye (Estinien still had the other) and had no element of living sacrifice in the summon, which is established to greatly expand the power of the summon. The Warring Triad were not at full strength (various pieces of dialog go out of their way to establish that). It's also been established as a viewpoint that just assuming the WoL will handle everything is irresponsible and selfish (see: Alphinaud). This was a perfect storm of summoning enhancements: Two aetherial batteries, a large number of human sacrifices including a self-sacrifice (which let's be honest sounds like a good plot excuse for increased power), and (assuming it's Rhalgr which is safe given that's who the dying people were crying out for) a god whose purpose is not protection, balance, growth, or victory, but destruction itself. Sounds like a bad deal.

10 char minimum

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You have some good points

In regards to the allied beastmen quest

I was kind of disappointed that the guy behind the crazed dragon was the man cat from the previous allied quest in 2.0 and using the same motivations once again. At least the beastmen and dragons that were involved felt like they were actual characters with growth instead of "we're all here for a common cause".

FYI, the correct tag is [ HB ] [ /HB ].

(MSQ) As for your other comment,

Unfortunately, in this game, after a character sacrifices themselves, situations where they would have been necessary simply never occur, so the impact is never properly felt (see Moenbryda, Minfilia). The one odd exception being where Cid encounters an Allagan barrier, like one we once needed G'raha Tia's help to break through, and we start on a long journey to track down Y'shtola, of all people.

It will probably be different with Papalymo, because he and Yda have never really had scenes where they ddin't interact, but that will be something new for FFXIV.

(Ah, they deleted their post...)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

FYI, the correct tag is [ HB ] [ /HB ].

(MSQ) As for your other comment,

Unfortunately, in this game, after a character sacrifices themselves, situations where they would have been necessary simply never occur, so the impact is never properly felt (see Moenbryda, Minfilia). The one odd exception being where Cid encounters an Allagan barrier, like one we once needed G'raha Tia's help to break through, and we start on a long journey to track down Y'shtola, of all people.

It will probably be different with Papalymo, because he and Yda have never really had scenes where they ddin't interact, but that will be something new for FFXIV.

(Ah, they deleted their post...)

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Thank you very much for the help! I'll edit this comment with my whole spoiler tag.

MSQ

At first I thought maybe Papalymo sealed himself in with Ilberd's budding primal. But then the Scions, who should all have intimate knowledge of how that spell works, spoke of his death as a matter of certainty.

I saw a youtube video the other day that mentioned that a character death in a story is impactful because it means that someone who was a force within the narrative now isn't, and the story will inevitably change because now they aren't there to affect it. I was reminded of this because I was so sure Papalymo would be a hugely important character alongside Yda in Stormblood. That he's dead throws so many of my expectations out the window. It was actually shocking to me.

And on the topic of Ilberd's primal I think it makes more sense that he meant to summon Rhalgr, but I got some serious Phoenix vibes from Answers playing and Alphinaud's reaction. I can't help but feel that this is the actual reason Yoshi-P wanted us to complete Coil, to get an emotional impact from those visuals and audio.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

It's a good thing that we defeated the triad in the order that we did, huh?

http://i.imgur.com/49SjjTC.jpg



You have some good points

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Army of Wol

I am just suprised how WoL is not screaming from frustration. Why are we even trying to save people from primals when they summon them over and over again

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Originally Posted by Etwo

I am just suprised how WoL is not screaming from frustration. Why are we even trying to save people from primals when they summon them over and over again

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Because most normal people don't people don't tend to need them...

That and Ilberd has had it out for us for a while now.

Scholasticate:

I'm a little disappointed that everything wrapped up so neatly and that whilst some further light was shed upon Ishgard's history it ended up concluding with the same 'we are all equal' preaching that plagues the real world. So much of Ishgard's grit, flaws and original charm seems to have been eroded away over the course of 3.0.

I hope 4.0 doesn't do the same to Ala Mhigo and instead keeps things morally grey. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for role-players otherwise.

Not really. Without the blessing of light, echo, job soulstones and gears, the base version of "us" will be quite usless aside from looking hot floating in the stasis chamber butt naked.

Finally got to Dun Scaith! Only one wipe vs. Scathatch, though we were close on the final boss as well!

Oh, Diabolos, acting like you're so clever with your absorption of Scathatch. I saw that coming from a mile away.

Not much else to say 'cept all's well that ends well. Everybody made it through, and the only cost paid was Leofard's prized manacutter. That portrait in his den did end up being significant, though that was also a bit predictable.

Umm... not much else to say?

The Final Beast tribe chain turned out to be a lot more interesting than I thought it would be:

The core story was pretty similar to the ARR one with even the same primary villain who, if he survived his airship being blown up in mid air by Kobald bombs, almost certainly survived this. He is really going to start hating Beast tribes and the WoL. The really interesting thing for me was all the other details.

- Vanu Vanu dances, at least if my speculation is right, make a lot more sense. In the 52 or 54 DRK quest you travel to the Sea of Clouds to visit a Vanu healer as they are said to be able to diagnose illness from reading a persons Aether. This, combined with the dance makes me suspect the Vanu Vanu are Aether sensitive. The dance isn't merely a physical display but a display of Aetheric strength. By that logic it would make sense when other Vanu would potentially be made fearful by a dance. The fact that the dance in this questline purged several Vanu of what one can assume is some form of Aetheric corruption in a similar manner to how the dragonsong does later just emphasizes this. Of course, without definitive proof this is speculation still.

- We get a hint at how the Allagans perhaps caught so many dragons. Clearly the Neural Links were necessary to make control permanent but those mind control guns would make capture a lot easier. If an older dragon can fall to a well placed shot its hardly surprising the Allagans caught so many samples to play with. Its not suprising Taimat would know a potential counter. If a child dragon could break the effect one of the First broods Dragonsong would have made it very difficult to use such a weapon in an open battlefield but still it explains a lot.

- We now know that the Meracydian Dragons in Azys Lla are all nuts, probably from exposure to this Aetheric corruption/control technique. It probably helps explain why Taimat wasn't pissed at us for fighting her children. Shame we still cant convince her to move on. Even Deftarm felt unhappy just walking away.

- This is also so the first time we see that the Garleans have had some success in their attempts to recover tech from Azys Lla. The question is if the tech the Garlean researcher was using here is known to the Garleans at large or if he had been persuing it in private to try and claim all the credit and glory when its revealed. We might after all end up running into dragons when fighting Garleans after all.

Anyway, overall pretty enjoyable. Nice to see Deftarm has grown.

I just discovered this
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Yuyuhase_(1.x)

I never knew Yuyuhase was in 1.0 o:

Sounded like a bit of a prick back then too
"Halt! Thou must needs swear a solemn oath before gods and man to seek naught but wealth and riches by way of yon aetheryte! Wilt thou!?"

So, here's my input on the end of the MSQ

Something that bothers me is a difference that I saw between the 1.0 summoning of the seal, and the 3.5 summoning. In 1.0, the Warrior of Light had to go around Eorzea to offer prayers to the Twelve, beseeching their aid in containing Bahamut. Papalymo didn't get us to do that (We didn't have the time to do it anyways), so maybe he wasn't actually summoning the Twelve, or even their power.
Maybe the appearance of the spell was simply mimicking Louisoix's spell, or something along those lines.
And, I mean, the primal was just forming. If that's the case, tying everything together, a just forming primal will need a weaker sealing spell to contain it. That leads to less aether being used to cast it, so... Potential survival(?).

I personally do hope that Papalymo managed to survive, since he is my little buddy. I know there's still that chance he might be gone, but until I see a body, or some other proof of death, I refuse to believe it. I mean, everyone else that's died, we've seen them die.

the body disapear actualy, u won't see any

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Originally Posted by Aerish

the body disapear actualy, u won't see any

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Spoiler'd just in case

The last time the technique was used was under different circumstances and, this is important, DIDN'T WORK. Louisoix's body didn't disappear until after he became Phoenix, and only because Bahamut dragged him down with itself. Papalymo currently is ruled under "didn't find the body" when it comes to death, meaning until we A.) see it, or B.) the end of 4.0 he probably survived.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Nael/Eula van Darnus' body literally exploded into aether at the end of 1.23 and she still came back.

Any sort of death is far from permanent.

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This one atleast was actually surprising to people to my understanding because we saw Darnus die completely. The circumstances for this one are unlikely to be used again...plus it could be said to actually mimic Sephiroth going into the lifestream only to be able to emerge from it years later.

Nael/Eula van Darnus' body literally exploded into aether at the end of 1.23 and she still came back.

Any sort of death is far from permanent.

When it comes to Louisoix's spell:

There is indeed a distinct visual difference between it and Papalymo's, and that's the lack of the sigils associated with the Twelve in the latter. This, after all, is what Louisoix's looked like:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20121123013233

Papalymo's has the sphere that forms around Bahamut initially, but it stops there. What I take this to mean is that Louisoix used his half-summoning of the Twelve to bolster a pre-existing sealing spell, which Papalymo used on its own. Of note, that spell isn't what took Louisoix's life, so Papalymo may not have sacrificed himself after all; then again, there are any number of ways the circumstances could be tweaked to require the life of the caster this time around.

Kinda throws into question Ilberd's claim that his Primal - whatever it may be - is stronger than Bahamut, too.

After seeing the events at baelsars wall It made me realize that if eorzea was to go head on against the empire they wouldn't have a chance. Their magitek weapons seem far too powerful for the average footsoldier, they have a near infinite supply of troops from 2 continents (both larger than aldernard) and lets not forget an airship fleet that none of eorzea's ships could compete against, so hearing that the empire might stop being an antagonistic group a mere 2 expansions away makes me wonder how exactly it's going to go about.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

After seeing the events at baelsars wall It made me realize that if eorzea was to go head on against the empire they wouldn't have a chance. Their magitek weapons seem far too powerful for the average footsoldier, they have a near infinite supply of troops from 2 continents (both larger than aldernard) and lets not forget an airship fleet that none of eorzea's ships could compete against, so hearing that the empire might stop being an antagonistic group a mere 2 expansions away makes me wonder how exactly it's going to go about.

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One thing to remember is that the WoL is a one-(wo)man army all their own, and thats before accounting that we have atleast 7 others comparable to us that would probably be traveling with us as well if this was single-player. Its always been known that the Eorzean City-States aren't truly a match for the Empire, they have been VERY lucky so far except for Ala Mhigo.

If the Empire is truly delt with in either 5.0 or 6.0 it will be because the Empire becomes embroiled in a Civil War in which one side is helped by us. That or their attempts to capture Primals completely screws them over because multiple ones get unleased within the Capital.

It does seem like the current Garlean regime is on shaky grounds, which is why I think Varis had to quickly make the Gration to re-establish Garlean power after the War of Succession against his own uncle. Speaking of which, the lore book says that his uncle and his supporters were against the Garlean expansion policy and it's need to eliminate all eikons. So there already exists a Garlean faction that might want to help the WoL ... unless they were all killed.

I'm just hopeful that SE remains faithful to the standards they've set for this spell, instead of twisting it in some way for PLOT REASONS.

Perhaps I'm a bit late to the party or it was already posted in this thread, but...

...after running through Zurvan NM on an alt, I just put two and two together. When Unukalhai was sent to our world, he would have had to be dead just the like WoD, correct? Which would explain quite a bit of why he looks like a teenager even though the Void is certainly thousands of years old--he's not technically 'alive' in the traditional sense.

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Originally Posted by karmiccat

I'm just hopeful that SE remains faithful to the standards they've set for this spell, instead of twisting it in some way for PLOT REASONS.

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Yeah, because if one of my friends was in life-threatening danger, I know my first thought would be "I hope he dies for real."

Yes, yes, I get it, it's fiction, but I have to ask myself if that kind of thought process is really a good thing or not... Most people these days would rather shoot videos of an accident on their phone than use it to call for help.

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Originally Posted by karmiccat

I'm just hopeful that SE remains faithful to the standards they've set for this spell, instead of twisting it in some way for PLOT REASONS.

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I'm curious what "standards" you think exist for this spell? We've seen it cast exactly once before, and the circumstances involved were overwhelmingly different:

- Different caster, with less experience - star pupil or not, don't try to convince me that Papalymo is as skilled as Louisoix!
- Tupsimati is broken.
- No invocation of the Twelve.
- The Primal was not yet fully formed.

With all this wiggle room involved, SE has plenty of room to say, "Oh, yeah, Papalymo survived because..." Frankly, the only reason I think Papalymo is probably dead for realzies is because Papalymo himself seemed convinced he was going to die from casting it!

Okay, that's my fault. I didn't word what I wanted to say properly. "Standards" was the wrong word for me to use

-True, Papalymo may not be as skilled as Louisoix, but without an invocation of the Twelve, do you really think that the spell would take as much Aether as Louisoix's spell did? There's also the fact that Louisoix didn't die immediately after casting the (albeit, failed) sealing spell. Now, whether that's because he absorbed some of the scattered aether, like some speculate he did, or because he still had a little power left, the fact remains that he didn't die immediately. (Yes, I know about the Coils stuff, but that's not my focus right now)

I agree with a post I saw earlier, speculating that Louisoix was using the power of the Twelve to bolster the strength of an already existing spell, the base of which Papalymo used.

In short, I hope that SE doesn't mimic Louisoix's death with Papalymo, simply because of how different the circumstances were!

Regarding a certain Scion:

I have nothing against Papalymo. I do, however, want him to end up having died due to his spell so that we're not stuck with yet another 'just kidding' moment where a major character is teased as dying only to actually turn out to be perfectly fine all along. They already did it with Nanamo at the end of 2.0. Do we really need to go through that again towards the end of 3.0?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Regarding a certain Scion:

I have nothing against Papalymo. I do, however, want him to end up having died due to his spell so that we're not stuck with yet another 'just kidding' moment where a major character is teased as dying only to actually turn out to be perfectly fine all along. They already did it with Nanamo at the end of 2.0. Do we really need to go through that again towards the end of 3.0?

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I'd be totally on board with you, but

If it was ANY of the other Scions before Papalymo and Yda I'd actually believed they died. But it seems like a strange decision to bring him back into the story just one patch ago and then BOOM dead. Though I guess Moenbryda's doing basically that means its possible...still don't see him actually dieing though.

Considering the title you get after watching that scene, it'd be a bit silly to backtrack after the fact.

While the MSQ was a little short, it did give us some interesting things to chew on.

I'll admit I fully expected Papalymo to bite it this patch, although Ilberd being killed as well surprised me. One of my buddies had an interesting theory. We know the title for the Omega raid is "The Bend of Time". If Omega actually has time powers (which I'm skeptical of since Alexander just used that plot), Yda would easily be convinced to use it to save Papalymo. That way Papalymo doesn't fully die...although as a consequence, Ilberd would likely be brought back as well, allowing him to serve as the "extremist" rebel leader for Stormblood. While I'd personally prefer for Papalymo's sacrifice to stick, I think that could have some potential, especially if it carries some other great risk.

Does anyone know what the other translation of 3.5 title is in the other languages?

Here we got "Far edge of fate" but what about other regions?

Rather minor but something nobody's talked about...

Anima Weapon!

It's done! Yay!

Transferred the Anima from its old soulstone into a new one. Also Ardashir made a golem body it can inhabit so it's able to exist independently of the weapon, I think. So no moral dilemma if we have to break down the weapon for 4.0's legendary weapon questline.

... aaaaaand poor Gerolt is still in debt to Rowena. Either airship tickets to Azys Lla cost a fortune, he's buying vintage spirits, or both. That poor man will never escape Rowena's grasp.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Does anyone know what the other translation of 3.5 title is in the other languages?

Here we got "Far edge of fate" but what about other regions?

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The Moonspeak Japanese is 「宿命の果て」. 宿命 (shukumei) is one of may words for destiny/fate/etc. 「の」 has no practical translation. 「果て」 (hate, that's hah-tey, not hate), is an end, extreme, result, etc., but not exactly an edge. So "Far Edge of Fate" isn't the crazy inversion we got with "The Torch of Hope" becoming "Before the Fall."

Japanese actually has a lot of words for destiny, though, all with different connotations, but bugger if I can intelligently explain the differences between unmei, shukumei, and sadame all that well. (And Ferne-dono would laugh at my attempt anyway.) Most previous occurrences we've seen were unmei and not shukumei, but beyond that I got nothing.

I will do my Anima at some point. Still having trouble capping, and I can only partially blame that on Fate/Grand Order.

Oh no worries. Grinding A1S for 3 days straight isn't exactly fun, and now that it's done all I have to do is cap on Scripture (which won't be hard), run Shadow of Mhach for upgrade coins, and stare at White Dalamud. Eorzean clouds don't move in the sky, don'tcha know? I guess I could do the Garo event but I'm not into PvP at all...

Being off work because they can't get their logistics right is boring. Seriously sucks, especially when you have to go get some dental work done.

Um... the patch title, "The Far Edge of Fate," was said to have an emphasis on the "Far Edge." My knowledge of Japanese is... cursory at best. A glance shows the German title of 3.5 is the same as English, "The Far Edge of Fate." The French one, however, is "Aux confins du destin," which after running it through Google Translate reads "On the Borders of Destiny." That's not very different.

A native French speaker would probably be better than an idiot with the internet and Google translate.

From what we have and some of Ilberd's lines, I take it to mean something along the lines of "The end of the current course of fate and writing a new one." Or... something. It's hard to put into words. "An ending to mark a new beginning," as the man himself put it.

MSQ

Papalymo: Run!
Alue: No! I eat gods for brea-
*Papalymo casts Ruin*
Alue: The F-! Ruin doesn't have Knockback!
Papalymo: Best Student Sacrifice GO!

this is why I hate Potatoes, no respect for mechanics!

New ruin passiv knockback inc

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Originally Posted by DreamAngel-Ren

MSQ I mostly agree to everyone's thoughts about the story, but the one part that really had me wondering..

I'm super curious as to why Tataru and her buddies did measurements on the WoL (our character) o.o

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I know I'm reallyyy late with this reply, but I have my own speculation.

She's not making us an outfit. She's preparing our coffin.

http://www.scifimoviezone.com/imageb...future3150.jpg

I would love it if the Primal summoned was Griever. I mean we name Squall's necklace midway through FF8 and then it's never mentioned until the final boss fights where Ultemecia literally summons Griever by extracting it's metaphysical perception from Squall's mind into actual reality (she even calls it the strongest GF -- which Ilberd kind of pays homage to as he says his primal will be stronger than Bahamut). Ilberd does use many Lion themed attacks as well, and Griever does resemble somewhat of a Griffon.


http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...F8_Griever.png


Who else can't wait to get Shockwave Pulsar'd?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I would love it if the Primal summoned was Griever. I mean we name Squall's necklace midway through FF8 and then it's never mentioned until the final boss fights where Ultemecia literally summons Griever by extracting it's metaphysical perception from Squall's mind into actual reality (she even calls it the strongest GF -- which Ilberd kind of pays homage to as he says his primal will be stronger than Bahamut). Ilberd does use many Lion themed attacks as well, and Griever does resemble somewhat of a Griffon.


http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...F8_Griever.png


Who else can't wait to get Shockwave Pulsar'd?

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Aye, the bit with the Pain and longing kinda made me recall him, from way back in the day.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120804183941

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...e0a6cc066e.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Rather minor but something nobody's talked about...

Anima Weapon!

It's done! Yay!

Transferred the Anima from its old soulstone into a new one. Also Ardashir made a golem body it can inhabit so it's able to exist independently of the weapon, I think. So no moral dilemma if we have to break down the weapon for 4.0's legendary weapon questline.

... aaaaaand poor Gerolt is still in debt to Rowena. Either airship tickets to Azys Lla cost a fortune, he's buying vintage spirits, or both. That poor man will never escape Rowena's grasp.

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Doubt Gerolt will ever become free from that debt consider how much he tends to spend on drinking.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

I know I'm reallyyy late with this reply, but I have my own speculation.

She's not making us an outfit. She's preparing our coffin.

http://www.scifimoviezone.com/imageb...future3150.jpg

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LOL!! I didn't see that answer coming! XDDD....o_o well sh*t, we better keep both eyes open and watch our backs >.> <.<