"Return to Ivalice" Stormblood's 24 Man Raid

C'mon. You are not serius. This is not Ivalice from Tactics, Vagrant Story or FFXII. It is just the tipically tradition of tking namesfrom other FF. But probably will be his own thing with his own lore. As Lidbum city is no the same in FFIX than FFXIII. They jsut take names.

But the logo is the same as ivalice's alliance, right ?

Ivalice is all I ever wanted from XIV. I actually got hooked cause it reminded me of XII~

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

So true...

Really, a little reality check is needed here - SE have already stated in the past that 1), Ivalice and Hydaelyn are not the same worlds, they are completely separate worlds in different universes, and 2) viera are not going to be added to the game (because Yoshi considers them to be too similar to the miqo'te, as being 'humans with animal parts'), nor is there even going to be any new player race added in Stormblood.

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Hm.. I wonder how we stumble upon this world. Ooh I know! Perhaps the world converge, expanding the world of Hydalean itself. Meaning all of Ivalice's inhabitants and lands could co-exist, possibly giving leeway to a new race later on. Probably not stormblood, but later patches or expansions :p

Or that would cause a calamity and the end of the world of Hydaelyn and Ivalice.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Actually I really am in it just for the Viera. I would also like it if you didn't speak of my search info without my permission. I feel like it's an invasion of my privacy. Not only that but if just says m/m. It's not like I said my butts blazing and ready to go. I tried to be low key about it. :/

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> Places information out in the open
> Complains about privacy invasion

LOL! Dude you crack me up in every single post you make!

They better bring Hitoshi Sakimoto, HE IS Ivalice! Without him the Ivalice atmosphere is just not complete.

https://youtu.be/QdgNzhr_tPE

https://youtu.be/ftzHKRDIvp4

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Too hardcore for me LOL! I do wonder what classes you like in ff11 and which ones you do like to see in ffxiv in the future ^^

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Got my wish with Red Mage and Dragoon in the base game :)
Buuuut since this topic is based on Ivalice and IZJS version of XII has the job I'll say the next one I'd like to see would be Time Mage.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Binding Coil didn't have any particularly famous writers.

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It got revealed in some of the Live Letters. The story of binding coil was written by the person, who did write the heavensward main scenario and job quest storys like dark knight. The story of alexander was written by someone else.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Or that would cause a calamity and the end of the world of Hydaelyn and Ivalice.

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You mean how the world of FFXI and FFXIII somehow made a wormhole bringing one of its inhabitants caused a calamity? Mhm. :/

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

You mean how the world of FFXI and FFXIII somehow made a wormhole bringing one of its inhabitants caused a calamity? Mhm. :/

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Yes, Lightning made everyone's butts considerably flatter.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

You mean how the world of FFXI and FFXIII somehow made a wormhole bringing one of its inhabitants caused a calamity? Mhm. :/

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Three characters =/= civilisations. Hydaelyn and Ivalice were never one world (ever. This has been confirmed), so it's not as simple as how Tales of Symphonia handled it (where the two worlds in different dimensions were one). Taking a chunk of something from Ivalice's world and putting it on Hydaelyn (either crushing what already exists or "stretching" Hydaelyn to make it fit) would cause mass hysteria and usher in a new Umbral Era... lord knows what would happen to Final Fantasy Ivalice's world. Would probably be the apocalypse and end all life there :T

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Taking a chunk of something from Ivalice's world and putting it on Hydaelyn (either crushing what already exists or "stretching" Hydaelyn to make it fit) would cause mass hysteria and usher in a new Umbral Era... lord knows what would happen to Final Fantasy Ivalice's world. Would probably be the apocalypse and end all life there :T

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Maybe it really happened? It was mentioned that before Final Fantasy Tactics, something happened that killed off every race but humans, made magic less common, and airships are totally gone.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Maybe it really happened? It was mentioned that before Final Fantasy Tactics, something happened that killed off every race but humans, made magic less common, and airships are totally gone.

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Probably was the effect of our calamity in 1.0, assuming Ivalice was already here since we're "returning to Ivalice". :)

Could the white hooded guy helping us during warring triade be the one to return to ivalice ?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Maybe it really happened? It was mentioned that before Final Fantasy Tactics, something happened that killed off every race but humans, made magic less common, and airships are totally gone.

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I find that doubtful when there's this lurking about.

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Q: A lot of names from Ivalice have been mentioned such as Dalmasca, Belias, and Zodiak. Is there some kind of connection between Hydaelyn and Ivalice?
A: Maehiro: To be absolutely clear, there is no direct connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice or even FFXI’s Vana’diel. They are not the same world in different dimensions or time—they are their own separate worlds. However, there are certain connections to people or objects that appear in these other worlds that figure into the story of FFXIV as it has been conceived and is being told.

Yoshida: We’ll be revealing more as we move forward.

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If I had to guess, it's probably going to follow a similar opening premise to FFTA. Ivalice (or St. Ivalice) is probably going to be a hub like Idyllshire and some random NPC is writing a fantasy novel... that is somehow capable of making those who read it, physically experience it.

Ah it would be nice to discover an enchanted book leading directly to Ivalice.

I never did like FFXII, to me Ivalice is synonymous with Final Fantasy Tactics and the War of the Lions. If we get a "Return" to Ivalice I'd be more interested in fighting the Lucavi and Altima.

I also prefer my Ivalice without the sub-humans.

The way I see it there are three routes to take

1. Make an Ivalice here on Hydaelin somewhere
It has been done with Doma, Costa Del Sol, the Crystal Tower and countless other Final Fantasy places.

2. Go to one of the shards where the Eorzean Alliance turned into the kingdom of Ivalice for some reason.
Butterfly effect at full force. The Eorzean Alliance couldn't stop Ala Mhigo and they conquered Aldernard. Why Ivalice? Who knows. Maybe Ivalice was a general that won them the victories.

3. We go into the freakin Rift and actually go to Ivalice
Why not? Gilgamesh and Shantotto do it all the time. Iroha and Lightning were dumped on Eorzea and Cloud once crossed to Ivalice sometimes between finding the real Sephiroth and turning into a vegetable.

Waiting for when we see NPC Viera running around and people crying about them being right there, but not a play-able race.

The 24 man raids have seemingly just been paying homage to older Final Fantasy games so far.
Crystal Tower - FF3 with references to FF1, FF10, FF13
Void Ark - A few references from FF6, FF8, FF11 and FF9.

I expect to see a lot from FF12 and Tactics in the Stormblood raid.

Maybe we'll get to see Gafgarion.

I hope we get to hear some FFT music in the raid how we heard Tactics Ogre music in potd.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I never did like FFXII, to me Ivalice is synonymous with Final Fantasy Tactics and the War of the Lions. If we get a "Return" to Ivalice I'd be more interested in fighting the Lucavi and Altima.

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The only thing I did not like in FF XII was there was no real "summon/GF" like in FF VII or FF VIII" but I did enjoy the game overaly and the characters, my favorite ones being Fran & Balthier.

What did you not like about FFXII?

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Waiting for when we see NPC Viera running around and people crying about them being right there, but not a play-able race.

The 24 man raids have seemingly just been paying homage to older Final Fantasy games so far.
Crystal Tower - FF3 with references to FF1, FF10, FF13
Void Ark - A few references from FF6, FF8, FF11 and FF9.

I expect to see a lot from FF12 and Tactics in the Stormblood raid.

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If they appeared as an npc, mature players would ask for them as a playable race. Children who happen to get the game for their birthday will whine about not being able to have them. -_-

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

If they appeared as an npc, mature players would ask for them as a playable race. Children who happen to get the game for their birthday will whine about not being able to have them. -_-

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I mean, realistically, if they appear as NPCs, there's not a whole lot of reasons left as to why they couldn't be a playable race other than SE flat-out saying "we dun wanna". The model work would be largely done, and seeing as how tons of NPCs are actually able to be re-created in the character creator without issue I don't think it's a huge logical leap to assume that Viera models might be designed to be the same.

It's mostly going to come down to how strict SE is on their "we dun wanna", though. The cynical side of me says we might see them if Stormblood falters, in an attempt to bolster flagging revenue via 5.0 sales or Fantasia sales.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

If they appeared as an npc, mature players would ask for them as a playable race. Children who happen to get the game for their birthday will whine about not being able to have them. -_-

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With both being essentially the same thing.

There is a thing, people express their desire to have that thing. English natives will do so in english, chinese natives in chinese. Children will do it in their childish ways, sophisticated in their sophisticated ways. Substantially, there is no difference. What draws the line between crying/whining and a simple request is not the phrasing, but accepting "No" as an answer. Children frequently don't do that, hence the association with maturity. But it's evident that people of higher sophistication and age are far from immune to that. Otherwise people would have just gone:"Aww, shame." when SE said "We don't wanna do that." the first time around.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Waiting for when we see NPC Viera running around and people crying about them being right there, but not a play-able race.

The 24 man raids have seemingly just been paying homage to older Final Fantasy games so far.
Crystal Tower - FF3 with references to FF1, FF10, FF13
Void Ark - A few references from FF6, FF8, FF11 and FF9.

I expect to see a lot from FF12 and Tactics in the Stormblood raid.

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Nobody is crying, just because we want something that someone else may not want. You're exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Waiting for when we see NPC Viera running around and people crying about them being right there, but not a play-able race.

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I'd be slightly annoyed if they only had Viera appearing in the raids storyline. After all, there's more than just Hume and Viera in Ivalice. Nu Mou, Bangaa, I.Moogle, Seeq, Gria (even though they're pretty much Au Ra with wings), Garif, Rev, etc.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I mean, realistically, if they appear as NPCs, there's not a whole lot of reasons left as to why they couldn't be a playable race

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Other than gear scaling, animations, unique gear for feet, character customisation etc. Are you saying that because we have Goblins as an NPC race, that there is no reason that they can't make it a playable race other than "we don't wanna"?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Other than gear scaling, animations, unique gear for feet, character customisation etc. Are you saying that because we have Goblins as an NPC race, that there is no reason that they can't make it a playable race other than "we don't wanna"?

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Pretty much, yeah. The bulk of the modeling is done. As I mentioned in the rest of my post, most NPCs in this game actually seem to be created with the character creator as a base. I could make a Thancred, Minfillia, Yda etc. right now just using the current in-game assets we have and the Mogstation hairstyles/gears. In fact, minus the gear, one of my retainers is a Thancred clone. I'm assuming at this point, minus the hairstyle, a player could make a Yugiri using the Au Ra creator, but not sure if anyone's attempted it yet.

EDIT: Good job also choosing the most deliberately non-humanoid race we've probably seen in this game as your example. Do you really think you can accurately compare scaling gear for a Viera to scaling gear for a goblin? By the devs' own ADMISSION, they don't want to implement Viera as playable not because of some sort of player-perceived modeling problem (like you're trying to state), but simply because they don't WANT to. They think they're too similar to Miqo'te and Au Ra...which is fine, but never anywhere have I seen them cite modeling difficulty as the reason Viera won't be implemented.

To be honest, I'd rather they implement something else as well, but I'm also realistic. World of Warcraft barely gets away with racial diversity via race-locked class choices...do you really think this game, where players can be any class that they want with the push of a button, will have any sort of racial diversity outside of "kawaii moe" if they're not forced into it by the game design? Maybe some players would, but I think the devs would roll in a lot more Fantasia cash shop dough if they introduced a third super-cute human-with-animal-ears-and-tail race instead of something like Bangaa.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

What did you not like about FFXII?

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1. The license board. Do I really need to explain that?

2. The combat system. Wasn't a fan of the gambit system, it felt to me like they were trying to make MMO combat but I found it unpleasant and unwieldy, I just couldn't wrap my head around it. Most of the time I just let the npc's do all the work and tried to keep them alive.

3. I didn't like the playable characters. This is purely personal taste but I didn't like them at all. Vaan was VERY annoying, Penelo was just regular annoying, Balthier was every rogue pirate character, Fran was hot but I found her rather dull, Ashe was a resounding "meh," and Basch was alright. As far as villains go I thought Gabranth was fine, I could take or leave the rest.

4. The story. Again, purely personal taste but I didn't find it particularly compelling enough to make me want to keep going. I forget exactly how far I got but it reached the point where, even after paying careful attention to the dialogue, I didn't get any real feeling of any overarching goal or plot. When I lose sight of the main goal or can't seem to find one, I will lose interest in a game very quickly.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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wooahh... you took my line of thinking waaaay out of proportion. I never said that Viera was impossible to implement, I'm just bringing your expectations of what is possible down to earth by saying that just because they have implemented them as an NPC doesn't mean that what they have created is in a fit state to become a race (i.e. they would still have to work from the ground up).

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Pretty much, yeah. The bulk of the modeling is done. As I mentioned in the rest of my post, most NPCs in this game actually seem to be created with the character creator as a base.

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A) Those are NPCs built off of the player character creator, not player characters built off of an NPC creator, there is a huge difference.

B) The reason for this is that all the NPCs you mentioned are playable races (2.x Yugiri was a Mi'qote with a modified tail), at the point you are talking about Viera would not be, and thus the model would be a purely NPC model, not suited for character creation.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Good job also choosing the most deliberately non-humanoid race we've probably seen in this game as your example. Do you really think you can accurately compare scaling gear for a Viera to scaling gear for a goblin? By the devs' own ADMISSION, they don't want to implement Viera as playable not because of some sort of player-perceived modeling problem (like you're trying to state), but simply because they don't WANT to. They think they're too similar to Miqo'te and Au Ra...which is fine, but never anywhere have I seen them cite modeling difficulty as the reason Viera won't be implemented.

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Fine... which race do you want? Amaljaa, sahagin, ixal, vanu vanu, mamool ja, quiquirn? Yes they are more beast-like, but they all suffer the same hurdles, next time you play an ivalice game, look at their feet and tell me that there would not need to be heavy modification for gear to fit (and don't say they will just make the feet like a hyur, then its no longer a viera, just a hyur with rabbit ears).

The reason they never cite modelling difficulty is because ALL races have a unique modelling process for their gear. My entire point is that this modelling process is not there for an NPC, and just because viera may be in return to ivalice does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that "oh, they can just make it a playable race now".

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

but since you mentioned Basch as a controllable character I assume you played the same version.

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Basch is playable in both versions (I played the original).

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

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Ah yeah what you listed were main points of the game so it's clear if you did not like them you did not enjoy the game.

I admit I was kind of annoyed at first with the license board, but after a while I did not mind it. I played the Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac Job System which has an enhanced license board but since you mentioned Basch as a controllable character I assume you played the same version.

How could you not like Penelo!! Just kidding :) But she was my other favorite character after Fran & Balthier Duo.

As I was saying just before I enjoyed the game overaly, but I've only completed it once unlike FF VII and FVIII, both which I have played many times, so yeah I can't say it was great game but still worth a playthru or two for me :)

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

wooahh... you took my line of thinking waaaay out of proportion. I never said that Viera was impossible to implement, I'm just bringing your expectations of what is possible down to earth by saying that just because they have implemented them as an NPC doesn't mean that what they have created is in a fit state to become a race (i.e. they would still have to work from the ground up).

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No, you were trying to claim that the devs not implementing the race at this point doesn't just boil down to, "they don't wanna". Which, as they've gone on record stating, is precisely the case. You cited goblins as an example of an NPC race that hasn't been implemented because of modeling difficulties, not because the race would just be hugely unpopular to play, and I found that argument fallacious because they are not even remotely similar to our current character models in shape (unlike Viera). I know how Viera feet look, and I'm not arguing that there wouldn't be work involved in creating customizable models from scratch. I pointed out that a lot of the groundwork would be there if they appeared as NPCs for the Ivalice raid, and that since the race is so popular keeping it from the playerbase at that point really would just be because...the devs don't wanna. /shrug

I think in the end, the money will talk on this one. For all that everyone bemoans lack of racial diversity and "cutesy" racial proliferation, pretty much everyone I see still in-game are Miqo, Au Ra, Hyur, or Lalafell.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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Again, you are taking my post way out of context. Goblin was a bad example, you are right, it wasn't supposed to be a particularly great example and I could have used anything. My point is that these models have nothing to do with the character creator, its not the gear modelling process that is important to the argument, its the fact that viera would be put through the NPC process that beast tribes etc. go through rather than the process that playable races go through, they are two separate entities that do not cross over naturally (yes you can take the assets, but you still need to build them from the ground up, hence the race would then go through the gear modelling process, and the animation process, which isn't straightforward, and isn't even started after the NPC is created. Its not technical limitations that are preventing this, its the fact that this huge step needs to be done).

My ultimate point is that Viera appearing in the expansion raid has zero impact (i.e. nothing to do with) it becoming a race, and if it appears, it would be just as likely to become a race as right now (unless the devs openly give us new information).

Fair enough, though in some ways I disagree. I feel like they wouldn't go through all the hassle of creating the 3D elements just to use them as NPCs for a one-n-done 24-man; it would seem kind of trollish at that point. Maybe Viera will be a 5.0 beast tribe, heh. That seems to be the fate of all the other non-playable NPC races.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Fair enough, though in some ways I disagree. I feel like they wouldn't go through all the hassle of creating the 3D elements just to use them as NPCs for a one-n-done 24-man; it would seem kind of trollish at that point. Maybe Viera will be a 5.0 beast tribe, heh. That seems to be the fate of all the other non-playable NPC races.

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They could be taken from zodiac age and modified for all we know (like several enemy models), but yeah 5.0 beast tribe would be completely valid if they were NPCs in the 24man (like I said, same process).

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Crystal Tower - FF3 with references to FF1, FF10, FF13

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Crystal Tower didn't have anything related to 10 unless you're talking about Valefor which is a reference to the monster from the Crystal Tower in name only (As it's just Dark Dragon from XI renamed to being Valefor)
All the monsters in that dungeon are named after monsters from Final Fantasy III
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/V...al_Fantasy_III)
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20080217175637

Don't really remember anything from FF13 showing up in Crystal Tower tho.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

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I never played the whatever version you said, Basch was playable in the original. It's fine if you enjoyed the game, I'm not the sort of person to say "I didn't like it therefore it's a bad game." If you like it, more power to you, it's just a game that isn't for me. But I stand by what I said, Ivalice to me will always be War of the Lions, Ramza, the Lucavi, Altima, and no non-humans. :P