Request : In Stormblood, allow us to gear without tomestones

Tombstones is definitely redundant but it does allow casuals to gear up. So not sure if they will get rid of em.. They should make a PoTD armor set

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Please, tell me all the ways I had to gear up starting from 3.0 ?

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You have three tiers of crafted gear you can use to gear up, from the cheap i180 all the way to the i250, so a new player could use those as a stepping stone. If the objective is to catch up for newer players, every dungeon drops gear upgrades in chests, as well as the times that come about naturally from simply running content. Weapons are also pretty simple to get, from the base Ravana weapons up to Sophia, and PotD drops an i235 weapon plus relevant materia to be used to further assist a new or returning player in the gearing process. The problem is that some of these options do require an fc as they might not get ran as much, but with WT and SCPoints, it's ridiculously easy for New players to catch up. Unless they'd rather just sit around and whine about how far behind they are, that is.

I agree with the OP: the gearing is very slow and basically padded and sometimes it even gives some trouble to new players: I had to buy some crafted gear for my friend (i think back in 3.2, but I can't remember), because she couldn't do roulette, which needed 175, but the loot from the 2 dungeons were 160...so yeah it was pretty messed up, had to spend 2m just to make her join me.

But the idea he gave about dungeons dropping some useful gear is actually a good one: it would make running dungeons more fun and actually worth something besides glamour purposes. I just get loot for GC seals but I would actually like to get them for my alts. Why even bother using 225 loot for gearing alts, when I can spend my lore into 230 loot?

Infact this is how I imagine the looting in my mind (I think the OP made a similar example but I'm gonna use the current tier). By the way I'm not counting the weekly locks for this, but I'm not saying to remove it entirely.

Dungeons= 250 (it's simply for gearing: it doesn't have to be useful beyond that)
Alex normal= 260 (not upgradeable, so it'll remain useful for a while)
Tomestone= 260 (upgradeable to 270, making it the prerequisite for most endgame content)
Alex Savage= 275

Let's face it: raid gear is basically the same as tomestone: what makes it better or worse are the stats (...which could be fixed by having a reforge system like WoW) and considering that they don't seem interested in adding unique effects they could just be 5 points higher. Not really big deal but still technically stronger.

And in my opinion, crafted gear should be "removed" and "implemented" into raiding gear directly, maybe using a mat to allow us to overmeld stuff. I don't think crafted gear is bad but it's all about stats: these armors allow the player to customize stats and that's what makes them a better choices in certain cases. But if we had some other way to do that ("cough" reforge "cough"), then crafted gear could become a niche thing and could be done on actual raiding gear instead, like an enchant or something.
Although as I said earlier because of the armor having either bad or good stats, this is hard to make. Until they start allowing stat customization on the armor (or simply giving each class their own stats on their own armor too), item level is often not a huge concern: the stats are, nothing more nothing less.

So yes while I'd like new ways, I wish they'd fix the stat distribution on loot first. I'm tired to have parry on my tanking gear and no spell speed on my BLM one!

...but we know they won't so, I'll just keep on dreamin'

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

And in my opinion, crafted gear should be "removed" and "implemented" into raiding gear directly, maybe using a mat to allow us to overmeld stuff. I don't think crafted gear is bad but it's all about stats: these armors allow the player to customize stats and that's what makes them a better choices in certain cases. But if we had some other way to do that ("cough" reforge "cough"), then crafted gear could become a niche thing and could be done on actual raiding gear instead, like an enchant or something.
Although as I said earlier because of the armor having either bad or good stats, this is hard to make. Until they start allowing stat customization on the armor (or simply giving each class their own stats on their own armor too), item level is often not a huge concern: the stats are, nothing more nothing less.

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So we are getting rid of crafters now

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

So we are getting rid of crafters now

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To be fair it's not our problem if crafters have barely any real "work" to do besides crafting glamours. However I didn't say to remove them: make them useful by allowing THEM to customize our gear in some other ways.
For example, allow them to allocate our stats, allow them to overmeld our gear even tomestone ones, allow them to give our armor specific effects (it won't happen), allow them to give our armor and weapon some unique glamour effect that only their specialization can (they won't).

With the melder in our houses and at idylshire, I can assure you that I won't need a crafter to meld anything on my (tomestone) loot. They're just useful for crafted gear now and that LITTLE customization that they give.

But don't worry, nothing of what I said will happen anyway. However I'll just keep saying that the possibilities to expand the armor customization are endless.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

To be fair it's not our problem if crafters have barely any real "work" to do besides crafting glamours. However I didn't say to remove them: make them useful by allowing THEM to customize our gear in some other ways.
For example, allow them to allocate our stats, allow them to overmeld our gear even tomestone ones, allow them to give our armor specific effects (it won't happen), allow them to give our armor and weapon some unique glamour effect that only their specialization can (they won't).

With the melder in our houses and at idylshire, I can assure you that I won't need a crafter to meld anything on my (tomestone) loot. They're just useful for crafted gear now and that LITTLE customization that they give.

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I really don't get what you are on about, crafters are already useful and gutting crafting content will just annoy a lot of players.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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No, because dungeon drops are not only to gear up but they're also special glamours that may not be available anywhere else!...

If you mean SE to give us alternate gear sets with the same item level as tome gear then it would be fine!... :)

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Originally Posted by Arasiel

Tombstones is definitely redundant but it does allow casuals to gear up. So not sure if they will get rid of em..

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Tomestones...

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

You have three tiers of crafted gear you can use to gear up, from the cheap i180 all the way to the i250, so a new player could use those as a stepping stone. If the objective is to catch up for newer players, every dungeon drops gear upgrades in chests, as well as the times that come about naturally from simply running content.

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Wait wait, let's go back to 3.0, would you ?...in 3.0 you had...0 crafted gear. So again, what option did a fresh lvl 60 have to gear for 3.05 and entering Gordias ?
And every dungeon drop...is lower than the ilvl requirement of the next dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Infact this is how I imagine the looting in my mind (I think the OP made a similar example but I'm gonna use the current tier). By the way I'm not counting the weekly locks for this, but I'm not saying to remove it entirely.

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The thing is, weekly locks are pretty important to slow down access to the best gear. That's exactly why I asked for dungeon drop to only be on par with uncapped tome gear. And crafted gear should be kept in the loop too, as another way of gearing for people who want gear fast by paying them.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

If you mean SE to give us alternate gear sets with the same item level as tome gear then it would be fine!... :)

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I just think, since we already have dungeon gear, that it's the easiest way to introduce alternate way of gearing.

Keep the tomestone method but add another method of gearing up that's more engaging.

Hmm, well one thing Ive always wanted that would be interesting is high tier faction based gear, if not from the GCs and maybe Ishgard if they join in fully, then maybe from some new factions of some sort... It would still most likely be a token-esque im sure but at least there could at least be different looking sets of gear and weapons and possibly different quests/ways of obtaining, so yeah a bit more variety. >.<

I don't know if someone mentioned that before, but i think you forget about the fact that there are different types of players in this game. :o

Giving you dungeon loot of same ilvl as the ones from the tomestones would make it too easy for casual players to gear up. Sorry to say that, but the FF14 dungeons are way too easy to explain that huge benefit. :/ They solved the problem of ilvl caps with the last patch, so you are now able to enter a content, even though your ilvl is too low. That goes for every content. So it is a fair system for gearing up by capped tomes. I am raiding, but i also have to work and therefore cannot play the whole day to gather tomes or dungeon drops as fast as others would be able to. It would make it too easy for casual players to enter content, they're MAYBE(!!!) not skilled enough for.

It's a never ending argument between hardcore players and casuals, i think. :/ Is it boring to gather tomes? Indeed. But there are already different ways too get them! And tbh, i reached the cap in the first week after patch during 2 days because you get a whole lot of bonus EVERYWHERE. Therefore: 2nd week after patch -> 900 tomes -> 2 pieces can be bought -> 2 parts 260 + 10/11 parts 225 -> enough to enter Alex normal! :o Suggesting you had no 230/240 pieces (then you could have entered Alex normal during the first days!).

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Giving you dungeon loot of same ilvl as the ones from the tomestones would make it too easy for casual players to gear up. Sorry to say that, but the FF14 dungeons are way too easy to explain that huge benefit. :/

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Too easy...the dungeons....you mean the things that you do in roulette way under lvl 60 that still allow you to buy ilvl230 freely ...?
How would you justify earning 100 tomes of lore by doing a lvl50 dungeon ? Or, worse 120 lore by doing a leveling roulette that would put you in Ifrit story mode ?
Farming tome has never been hard, it's just boring...

Yes, there are different ways of getting them...but it's still the same system that we got since 2.0 and that we'll probably suffer throughout the next years...while dungeon gear will still have no impact whatsoever and will just gather dust...or reward you with a few GC seals.

Well, i was not talking about 230 lore gear, but about the sophistic one, some other people mentioned here. That's why i was talking about the cap. Since there is no cap to lore anymore, why should you worry about it? ._. Do your dungeon runs and buy it afterwards? :o

And the dungeons ARE easy, or do you really disagree with that? o.o Why should SE make it possible for players to gear up to ilvl 260 during just (if lucky) a few hours? Sure, it would be nice for us players, but not for SE. They would loose so much money, because players would gather all they need really quick and then maybe stop playing until next patch. No game producer would want that. xD
They give us enough possibilities to gear up and even give away the once best in slot gear for casual players after some time. (See Mhach raids and the 240 gear).

Btw they implemented a way to use the "few" GC seals for. :)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Too easy...the dungeons....you mean the things that you do in roulette way under lvl 60 that still allow you to buy ilvl230 freely ...?
How would you justify earning 100 tomes of lore by doing a lvl50 dungeon ? Or, worse 120 lore by doing a leveling roulette that would put you in Ifrit story mode ?
Farming tome has never been hard, it's just boring...

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This. I've been thinking on a similar thing myself, it does bother me when my tomestone gear from the last tier is superior to the gear from the new dungeons. In a perfect world to me, the tomestone armor/accessories should also drop in dungeons with the tomestones acting as "RNG insurance" for things that refuse to drop. I'm fine with keeping the weapon locked behind a system like Alexander, although the 7 week wait is a little excessive in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

7 week wait is a little excessive

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I disagree with that because the weapon can be your best in slot piece and therefore SHOULD be hard to achieve. Even if it can be upgraded afterwards.
It will be easy to get in the future, but for now it's good that it's hard to get.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I disagree with that because the weapon can be your best in slot piece and therefore SHOULD be hard to achieve.

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It's not hard, it's tedious.

Edit:

Or are you going to tell me that you honestly believe that doing a 7-10 minute fight once a week for 7 weeks is challenging? Granted A12 was a bit difficult initially but people more or less have it down at this point.

That might be true, maybe hard is not the perfect word, i meant it is good that you have to bring some patience and work for it over weeks and not just some days.
Sorry for bad wording!

I still think that the weapons (the new 260 ones right now!) are too good to be given away more easily. Even if the stats are not great for your class, the main stat itself is quite high.


I feel like you would like to have a way to equip your character faster and in shorter time than you can do now and i can totally understand. As a non-raider there are few possibilities to reach a higer ilvl just now. But there will be another Mhach run in the future which will likely give you 260 stuff too. So maybe try not to hurry and wait for things to happen?
Btw i can understand that farming tomes is boring and you would like an alternative, but it's easy to go on with the system as it is right now, because they can copy a lot of code they already used, so the work is less than it would be with including a new system. :/

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

i meant it is good that you have to bring some patience and work for it over weeks and not just some days.

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I disagree again. I've been farming Sophia Ex and have 5 of the weapons with around 30 something totems left over because I'm saving them for when they add the bird for 99 totems. Getting a Sophia weapon is more difficult but less tedious than getting a tomestone weapon.

Do you even read what i said? I was NOT talking about sophia weapons. And the 260 weapons are BETTER than sophia ones (not considering 2nd stats right now!!!), because the main stat is higher and they can be upgraded. o.O

And i never said A12 is challenging, please read my post above, where i apologised for bad wording.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Well, i was not talking about 230 lore gear, but about the sophistic one, some other people mentioned here. That's why i was talking about the cap. Since there is no cap to lore anymore, why should you worry about it? ._. Do your dungeon runs and buy it afterwards? :o

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That's the thing, I'm talking about the uncapped gear, especially Law. You had to farm a full set of Law to enter Gordias normal. No other option.

Now, you have the option of buying really expensive crafted gear or doing Savage raid...which are still farily restrictive.
Apart from that, you had to farm at least the Eso accessories (+Lore ring) to enter Midas normal (Since the left side drop from Void Ark), and now, you have to farm the Lore accessories (+Scripture ring) to enter Creator.

You could stock whatever amount of dungeon gear you want, it wouldn't change anything about what content you have access to.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's the thing, I'm talking about the uncapped gearn especially Law. You had to farm a full set of Law to enter Gordias normal. No other option.

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I apologise then since i got you wrong. According to other posts i read in this topic, i thought you were talking about making dungeon loot and tomestone gear from the same patch the same ilvl. But you want same ilvl from new dungeons as you can get old tomestone gear? Therefore i see no problem in that! Ever since you can go out and get yourself a whole lore set in just one day and there is no cap i would agree with you, it's stupid you cannot get the same ilvl in the new expert dungeons!

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I apologise then since i got you wrong. According to other posts i read in this topic, i thought you were talking about making dungeon loot and tomestone gear from the same patch the same ilvl.

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That's why I edited the first post...twice ;)

I'm starting to think people are mistaking "uncapped" and "un-upgraded" :p

I read that but then followed the discussion and statements seemed to hint at the way i understood first. Could also be my not perfect english that made me misunderstand. x'D


But there might still be the fact they don't want it like that to make sure the Mhach raid with ilvl230 will be done by many people, to ensure the hard work they put into it was worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

But there might still be the fact they don't want it like that to make sure the Mhach raid with ilvl230 will be done by many people, to ensure the hard work they put into it was worth the effort.

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24-man drops have the same ilvl as un-unpgraded-capped-tome gear (Wow, that's a mouthful...) so it's a totally different purpose.

I don't think having Neverreap and Fractal drops 170 (or even 175) gear would have prevented anyone to seek the i200 drops from Void Ark. In fact, for people bored of the tome system like me, it would have been a great continuity and would have reduced the "catch-up" feeling of odd patches.

3.0 : Dungeons to 175 -> Gordias to 190
3.1 : Void Ark to almost-200 (left side only) and EX dungeons as an alternative from Gordias normal
3.2 : Dungeons to full 200 -> Midas to 220
etc...
If you look precisely, you'll see that odd-patches EX dungeons don't fit any specific tier. That's why I thought earlier that it could be more interesting to have 4 EX dungeons on even patches and 0 on odd-patches (While they would still retain new type of content like Diadem, PotD, etc...).

But, then it's a debate of what is better. 2 dungeons every 3.5 months or 4 dungeons every 7 months ?

This could certainly work well, once I understood exactly what you meant. So, if you want to enter the current Raid Tier, you can choose to use the currently uncapped tome gear, OR you can use the current Expert Roulette's dungeon gear. That I could definitely get behind, since it allows alt jobs and new players to gear up and get to recent content quicker.

If they were the same ilvl, you get a good balance of RNG rewards and non-RNG rewards. If the RNG favors you, you'll get the gear you want quickly and be able to enter the new raid tier. If the RNG doesn't like you, you have no reason to fear since you'll still gain a good amount of uncapped tomes, allowing you to get similar strength gear as well. It's kind of a win-win scenario there. Either you get the gear you need, or you earn tomes towards getting the gear you need.

I'm not sure if this would require re-balancing the amount of tomes granted by dungeons, but it would be nice.

On odd-level patches, I'd probably make the dungeon gear equal to the last patch's upgraded tome gear.

So, for example, if the current Patch used this system:

Even Patch Dungeon Gear and Older Previous Patch's Tome Gear: i230
Upgraded Older Tome Gear (Maybe Odd Patch Dungeon Gear?): i240
Current Patch's Tome Gear: i260
etc

That could certainly work. Basically, the most recent dungeons will let you access the latest raid tier, or you can grind out the previous tome stones and enter anyway. It's a shame you can't change the title of this thread to something more accurate, like "Make Dungeon Gear equivalent to Uncapped Tome Gear", which is a lot more clear.

That said, I definitely want them to keep Tomes as a major progression system. While it could probably use some tweaking, it is a good way to tie almost any activity to main combat progression. For example, since Palace of the Dead grants tomes, you can use it as a way to advance your character's combat capability. Pretty much any activity they wish can be easily tied to combat-power progression through tomes. I wouldn't mind seeing more activities grant tomes, allowing you to cap however you like, whether it be PVP or side activities.

Seems I have misunderstood you before, I do agree with you now. Current dungeon drops should offer higher iL than what is offering us now.

You can gear now without gear.

It's called crafted 5x meld gear. there ya go 2 options.. Weekly gear up or PAY for it.

Give me a break, the way gear works in this game it would die, fast if gear progression wasn't capped, All people would do is cap on gear then quit till next patch, far more then the ones that already do it now.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

You can gear now without gear.

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Now, yes, but I have a feeling that 4.0 won't offer that, as 2.0 and 3.0 didn't.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Give me a break, the way gear works in this game it would die, fast if gear progression wasn't capped

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Yeah yeah, someone else who can't read...why bother...