YES! Seriously Ala Mhigo seems the sort of the "judge, jury, and executioner" place if I am reading the npcs right. It would just be fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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10-11-2016, 09:27 AMErikMynhier
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10-11-2016, 11:59 AMAirgetNot really, that changed occur because it was causing more work on the healers to keep Tanks with less HP alive. It was an unfair curveball being thrown at healers because tanks wanted to add more STR to hit harder. It had nothing to do with not wanting them to DPS and everything to do with how it was affecting the workload of healers compared to what it should of been.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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10-11-2016, 11:59 AMFallenWingsYeah and why would they give a tank class with more DoT damage and oGCDs than MNK and DRG. /rollseyesQuote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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10-11-2016, 12:00 PMFinalWolf
Dual sword wielding blue mage tank.
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10-11-2016, 12:13 PMFinalWolf
PVP should be another means of gearing up. Like around tomestone gear lvl.
That would get a ton more people to play.
Gear lust. In this game you just get your stuff and be done with it.
Dungeons. raids and PVP should have a chance to drop some good loot with rng stats on it.
It kinda creates a drive to keep running certain content to get the best items you can find. -
10-11-2016, 01:14 PMDragonLordX
I would like to see some alternative jobs to Bard and Mch that are DPS heavy instead of utility heavy like Ranger.
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10-11-2016, 01:59 PMYasuhiro
Trance from FFIX would be nice but wouldn't know how to balance it.
The more successful combos you do without letting them fall off you get a slight damage buff would add to the challenge of keeping up DPS and maybe encourage people to try harder
More "futuristic" looking areas, these are my favorite places to go to in a lot of FF games. I love places like Fractal. -
10-11-2016, 09:43 PMloreleidiangeloWhy does this always become the strawman whenever I mention wanting a fix to the tanking and healing meta? I'm not suggesting removing DPS options from WARs and SCHs. I'm not suggesting that healers have no offensive options in the open world, and have to rely on a buddy to level, or that tanks take 10 minutes to kill a quest mob, even if they're in no danger of dying themselves. I just don't want to see healers be able to ride Cleric Stance during the hardest raid content of the game, tanks be able to mass-pull dungeons and constantly drop their mitigation stance for MOAR DEEPS, and new classes like Noct AST being flatly unable to compare to ANOTHER HEALER because of something as stupid as "practical raid DPS ability".Quote:
Originally Posted by Llynd
I want mitigation and healing to be tuned in most non-solo content to where tanks NEED to use their stacks on IB, or need to stay in Shield Oath, and healers don't touch Cleric's unless they significantly outgear the content, because hey, I picked up a healing class because I actually want to push my heal buttons once in a while, not just put a HoT on a chain-pulling tank and spam Gravity. SHOCKER!
Also, SCH doesn't add "nice balance" to the game, it and WAR are literally uncontested for raid spots right now because of their stupidly high practical raid DPS. If you're seeing a AST/WHM or PLD/DRK composition for Creator it's just because Creator doesn't require maximum output from any composition, not because the tanks and healers are all comparatively effective. -
10-13-2016, 08:39 PMDuelleI stand on the other side of that, since I feel utility should very rarely affect DPS output. Especially when the utility is designed to shine when things go wrong or in exceedingly rare circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
I once played the role of dispeler in a Naxx 80 run because the guy who put the raid together brought two resto druids, which back then could not remove Disease-type debuffs (which meant doing the plague wing was impossible). It fell on me and the other ret in the group to use cleanse macros and download the addon Healbot to pick up the slack. It was the only time I ran into that situation, so I frankly didn't mind doing something a little different. Now if my role in a raid had involved cleansing shit off people all the time, then I would have had a problem, because it means I'm spending less time hitting things and more time pretending to be a healer.
I'd expect a similar experience with hybrid DPS like RDM, where the extra trades are nice once in a blue moon but don't drown out what I'm actually there for: to hit things with sword and spell.
No, but again, because the extra stuff doesn't drown out the main purpose of the involved classes. You're not bringing a resto druid for bear affinity; you bring that resto druid to heal your raid, and if things do go wrong then sure, they can tank for 12 seconds while the tank gets battle rezzed and hope that is enough to continue the fight and meet the enrages and everything else.Quote:
And let's not forget the larger assemblage of Seals and their Judgement effects? Did that seem flawed design to you, in that many roles weren't quite so locked off or pure?
This game's design has not fostered that kind of attitude, and instead we're seeing jobs being weighed not by the aptitude at their main role, but by the utility they bring.
The goal was to give RDM something along the lines of Blessing of Protection. I figured that Phalanx wouldn't need the harsh penalty of preventing the recipient from attacking since it wouldn't make them immune to physical damage for 10 seconds.Quote:
However, ideally Phalanx would be used on the largest source of damage to be taken near Phalanx's cooldown. Because you've left it linear scalar. Why wouldn't it be slotted immediately to be used for the hardest hit of the fight, as an additional tank cooldown? If you instead design it to favor lower health (causes the target to take reduced damage based on the %HP that would have been lost) or use a flat amount, only then will it not be slated for tank or key mechanical usage (e.g. powerful Prey attacks, cheesing the need to slip it off onto the OT).
Taking what you said in mind, the only idea that comes to mind would be a barrier based on the RDM's HP (single-target divine veil without the cure spell trigger), or something with reverse scaling so it's not very strong on targets with high defense (tanks) but strong on targets with lower defense values (though I have no idea how to make that work at all).
I actually had an idea for a boss fight involving a judge. It'd be an raid encounter versus 8 boss mobs that are based on player characters (jobs and all), with a judge acting as a 9th boss on the battlefield and dictating rules are you fight. The judge would make a call and you'd have something like 10 seconds to comply to the new rules or get a debuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikMynhier
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10-14-2016, 04:08 AMBalipuI personally think of healers as less healers and more strategists. I feel like I'm in control of the battlefield. A buff here, a debuff there, I dps this jerk, I heal this friend. And all of that from a safe distance from most of the action. I really like this aspect of healing and I might switch my main from ninja to a healer in 4.0. Especially if we get an interesting healer class. NIN is sorely lacking in actual ninja feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llynd
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10-14-2016, 11:26 AMShurrikhanThe easiest would be just to take a page from Essential Dignity or any classic Minus Strike -- make it a very snappy instant (flat damage) barrier that increases effectiveness with target missing %HP. A tank may then be more safely able to maximize it, albeit it at uptime cost, whereas a non-tank would be quicker to maximize it, and it's effect would seem more significant. If you want it to be more preparative, there's a bit more coding required, but is otherwise simple -- have it apply a barrier that reduces damage by a percentage equal to the %HP the attack otherwise would have consumed, absorbing up to (half?) your maximum HP. (Your 1.0 Aegis Boon, when it would not only block, but absorb / heal for the damage that would have been taken... as support.) And if you want to be the kind of utility that costs the rest of the kit next to nothing, make it a health transfer instead, or even a health equalization like Spirit Bond Totem (which would still kind of make sense for a Phalanx).Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Also, I'd like to hear more about this Judge fight of yours. /twiddling imaginary goatee -
10-14-2016, 12:29 PMSenorPatty
I'd like SCH to have all the dots skills but SMN cast Primal style spells or enter Primal Trance. SMN retains primals obtained from msq but would also have access to extra primals either through defeating one in a normal instance or special quests. Each Primal spell would have a 60 second cooldown so SMN should also retain normal dmg spells like the Ruin series. All Primal spells inflict same base damage but each would have an additional effect for 12 seconds
Titan: immobilize target in earth gaol. Target is unable to activate skills
Garuda: Winds grant two random party members haste
Ifrit: Summons an infernal nail with its own very small hp and the player can detonate it. The longer it stays alive, the more damage the detonation inflicts and the wider the range of dmg
Those are just examples. -
10-14-2016, 01:39 PMDuelleStill ironing the details, but basically:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Fight: Platoon
Concept
8 on 8 raid fight with a 9th NPC acting as a judge that implements "rules" during the fight, forcing the raid to follow said rules or receive a debuff. Mechanics are closer to PvP (stuns and CC have decreased durations, abilities with modified damage output in PvP come into play) but not going full ham (no PvP-specific abilities so that we don't force people to level PvP rank in order to be able to clear this fight).
The 8 enemies are randomly picked from a pool of all available classes upon release, but always being structured like a full party; 2 tank jobs, 2 healer jobs and 4 DPS. They also have all the abilities player characters have access to.
The judge
On top of the 8 enemies you'll fight, you have a 9th NPC that stands outside of reach that implements rules during the fight. Some of them alter gameplay a bit, others react to things that have been happening, while others are "imminent sentences" that turn into a penalty debuff unless you perform a certain action. Here's some examples:
Gameplay-altering
Elemental Restriction: Fire - Use of fire-based skils/spells (Enfire, Fire I-III, Fists of Fire AKA Vajra Stance, Wildfire) incurs a penalty on the character using it.
Offensive Restriction: DoTs - Use of DoT spells/skills (Goring Blade, Bio, Aero) incurs a penalty.
Offensive Restriction: Ranged - Attacking a ranged class (BRD, MCH, BLM, SMN, BLU) incurs a penalty.
Reactive Judgments
Judgment: Defensive Cooldowns - Classes with defensive cooldowns active when the Judgment is used get a penalty.
Judgment: Low HP - Characters with low HP when the Judgment is implemented get a penalty.
Imminent Sentences
Rumination: Focus Target - You must switch targets and attack them within the allotted time to avoid receiving a penalty. The attack must be delivered from within 10 yalms (this means casters and ranged DPS need to get closer to their target for the attack to count).
Rumination: AoE 2 - You must use an area of effect skill/spell that affects at least 2 targets within the allotted time to avoid a penalty. This applies to all skills, both offensive and curative (meaning Flash and Cure III/Medica count).
The Penalty
The penalty debuff can apply to both your group and the 8 NPCs you're fighting. Depending on what aspect of the fight should be emphasized, you could make the encounter hinge on tricking the NPCs into receiving penalties to make it easier to kill them. Likewise, you could set the AI of the NPCs to try to focus target a person with penalties (which could then be followed by the Judge using the Focus Target judgment to force them to lay off for a while)
The Penalty debuff stacks, but I'm not sure what it should actually do to players. One idea I had was to make the penalty stun the affected player for 6 seconds and making it more likely that the NPCs will focus that player during the stun. Another was that the penalty would increase damage taken for the duration. Another would be that the penalty deals DoT damage to the affected player for the duration of the fight.
Triggering Savage Mode
If you accumulate 5 stacks of Penalty on any one raid member, the Judge heals and raises all 8 NPCs back to full and joins the fight turning the fight from Normal Mode into Savage Mode. The judge would bring out their Judge Sword and still apply penalties while also whacking away at the main tank.
Additional ideas and notes
- The "normal" version of this fight should include a mechanic to remove penalties. Still haven't thought of how to do this...
- The fight concept is based on my hope to see us get 3 difficulty tiers for raids in the future. Story Mode being what we've seen with Alexander on Duty Finder, a Normal Mode that is harder and tuned towards mid-core raiders, and a Savage Mode that is triggered if you perform certain actions during the Normal Mode version of the fight.
- Yes, this would be the FFXIV version of the Faction Champions fight.