Fat Moogle Mount on Mogstation!

Bought it, wanted it, don't care what anyone thinks

Well, the people against the CS can be against the CS all they want, at the end of the day, you can always save up and get the mount another time, or you can have it now, and be $30 poorer. At the very least, SE does not rotate the items in a cash shop, and all items are available all the time, unlike a certain company that removes outfits whenever they want to...

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Well, the people against the CS can be against the CS all they want, at the end of the day, you can always save up and get the mount another time, or you can have it now, and be $30 poorer. At the very least, SE does not rotate the items in a cash shop, and all items are available all the time, unlike a certain company that removes outfits whenever they want to...

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I don't think the act of spending $30 is the main complaint for most people. It's more that SE is double-dipping it's playerbase by charging a monthly sub, and then on top of that selling them additional items that are not obtainable in game.

Also, $30 is pretty ridiculous for a mount. Spending $30 isn't going to break the bank for most people, but that doesn't change the fact that the pricing is absurd.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't think the act of spending $30 is the main complaint for most people. It's more that SE is double-dipping it's playerbase by charging a monthly sub, and then on top of that selling them additional items that are not obtainable in game.

Also, $30 is pretty ridiculous for a mount. Spending $30 isn't going to break the bank for most people, but that doesn't change the fact that the pricing is absurd.

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Exactly
*although yes, 30$ is pretty expensive for pixels

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't think the act of spending $30 is the main complaint for most people. It's more that SE is double-dipping it's playerbase by charging a monthly sub, and then on top of that selling them additional items that are not obtainable in game.

Also, $30 is pretty ridiculous for a mount. Spending $30 isn't going to break the bank for most people, but that doesn't change the fact that the pricing is absurd.

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All MMOs do it, at least that I know of.

Least this game is cheaper than most for the silly cosmetic things, this mount is a little pricy, but if you look at WoW that charges $25 just for a race change, we really have it better than most. Their mounts are all about $20 to $30 as well and they are way less detailed.

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Originally Posted by Celef

How much time did they use to make that mount/ how did it impact the creation of other stuff

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A game studio has different teams assigned to different tasks.

The devs/progs that create Optional items may not even be the same people that work on game content and regular updates

You are assuming that creating optional content means less time or manpower creating the rest of content, but they may not even be related to each other and the optional item devs may not even be hired if there was no profit to be made.

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Originally Posted by Celef

why not add it to the game as well ?

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Because then, a number of people who have purchased the item may have chosen to get it ingame instead, thus resulting in a loss of profits for the devs.

Not only that, but the effort and time required to obtain the item would have to be difficult and lenghty to justify it being free vs25$ , which would probably stll leave a segment of players without it.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

All MMOs do it, at least that I know of.

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Do they really forces you, nowadays, to get a sub to access the game AND add exclusive items in CS or are they F2P with an option to get a sub and CS ?
Cause it's not the same at all. I would not mind buying that mount which is 2 month sub if i did not have to already pay those 2 month sub to have access to the game...

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

Not only that, but the effort and time required to obtain the item would have to be difficult and lenghty to justify it being free vs25$ , which would probably stll leave a segment of players without it.

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Maybe but then you would have :
- Those who choose to pay
- Those who choose to farm
When now you just have those who choose to pay, meaning those who can't afford it can get a chance to have it. If people have extra money to spend, then glad for them, but what about those who can't afford 2 month sub for a mount ?
Adding this in the CS without giving them the abbility to get it IG via work and dedication is like saying "yerk, you are poor, our exclusive team won't work for you" it's a kind of discrimination and i've been told, since i was a kid that discrimination is bad.

My first reaction was, "OH! I wanna get that" and I readied the wallet and everything! But then I saw the price tag and was like, "GUUUURRRL, dayum."

I'm down with the previous mount prices but I ain't paying $30 because two people can sit on anything. Like, check yourself SE.

I love it, I'm just not willing to spend that much at this time. Maybe later idk yet.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I don't think the act of spending $30 is the main complaint for most people. It's more that SE is double-dipping it's playerbase by charging a monthly sub, and then on top of that selling them additional items that are not obtainable in game.
Also, $30 is pretty ridiculous for a mount. Spending $30 isn't going to break the bank for most people, but that doesn't change the fact that the pricing is absurd.

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Well I don't see people complaining about the cinema's double-dipping their customers, "Oh, it's $10 for the ticket, you want refreshments? That's another $10 please." "But I should have my refreshments included in the ticket cost at no additional cost!" Do you see what I mean?

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Originally Posted by Celef

Exactly
*although yes, 30$ is pretty expensive for pixels

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Well I could say the same about the fact that $60 is too expensive for console pixels but I don't because there is a certain requirement for money-to-work exchange, and from what SE has worked out, their work on the Fat Mog mount is worth $30 per person. What you could perceive as $15/$10 could very well actually be $40 by the person who made it, value is subjective to where it is being sold/by who/how much work was put into it. If you disagree with that price, then you aren't forced to purchase it and/or anything else that will or won't be included. Instead you could spend that cash to get another 30 days playtime, with that ugly Gobbie helm you don't like for playing for so long.

If I showed you a painting that is literally a yellow circle, I could put it up for sale for $100 and it would eventually be purchased by someone, but to me, it took all of $5 to make. SE is a business primarily, so profits come first. You are a customer, and you are being offered multiple things, it's up to you whether you want those multiple things or not, at an extra cost.

Obviously overpriced, plus, it actually looks horrid from the backside.

That's our chance to tell SE to draw the line with the ever increasing prices of cash shop mounts or allow them to bring out a 45€ Faust Mount next month.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Nothing more to say....
1st it's one of the last P2P game AND they add a cash shop....can't believe japanese players (considering they are the only ones they listen) feel that good about being treated like pigeons....

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Name a P2P MMO that doesn't have a cashshop.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Name a P2P MMO that doesn't have a cashshop.

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FFXI :3

/10char

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Well I don't see people complaining about the cinema's double-dipping their customers, "Oh, it's $10 for the ticket, you want refreshments? That's another $10 please." "But I should have my refreshments included in the ticket cost at no additional cost!" Do you see what I mean?

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The movie theater business is completely different from MMOs. Most of the money from a ticket sale goes directly to the actual movie studio and NOT the theater. Concessions are where they can actually make a killing.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Well I could say the same about the fact that $60 is too expensive for console pixels but I don't because there is a certain requirement for money-to-work exchange, and from what SE has worked out, their work on the Fat Mog mount is worth $30 per person. What you could perceive as $15/$10 could very well actually be $40 by the person who made it, value is subjective to where it is being sold/by who/how much work was put into it. If you disagree with that price, then you aren't forced to purchase it and/or anything else that will or won't be included. Instead you could spend that cash to get another 30 days playtime, with that ugly Gobbie helm you don't like for playing for so long.

If I showed you a painting that is literally a yellow circle, I could put it up for sale for $100 and it would eventually be purchased by someone, but to me, it took all of $5 to make. SE is a business primarily, so profits come first. You are a customer, and you are being offered multiple things, it's up to you whether you want those multiple things or not, at an extra cost.

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And you are completely missing the point. Of course value is subjective. The point is, we pay a monthly subscription cost for this game, everything (fluff) should be included with this subscription. Instead, we get nickel and dimed for special items that are cash-shop only.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The point is, we pay a monthly subscription cost for this game, everything (fluff) should be included with this subscription.

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Based on what? Says who?
Because as far as i remember, my sub only guarantees my access to the game and the preservation of my character/account data on the servers.

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

Based on what? Says who?
Because as far as i remember, my sub only guarantees my access to the game and the preservation of my character/account data on the servers.

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My apologies. My very first MMO was XI, and everything was included with my subscription. I suppose I expected them to continue with their original thinking when it came to the value of their subscriptions.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The movie theater business is completely different from MMOs. Most of the money from a ticket sale goes directly to the actual movie studio and NOT the theater. Concessions are where they can actually make a killing.

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Ok, here's a better analogy. It's like saying "I should have free refreshments from the minibar when I already pay $150 for a hotel room". Except they're not free, it's an EXTRA service which is 100% optional. You are saying it should not be there but the fact of the matter is, it's optional.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

And you are completely missing the point. Of course value is subjective. The point is, we pay a monthly subscription cost for this game, everything (fluff) should be included with this subscription. Instead, we get nickel and dimed for special items that are cash-shop only.

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That's only how you see it, and you are perfectly capable of deciding whether x or y is worth purchasing based of if the game is P2P or F2P. If a developer chooses to include a CS to a P2P game where they already charge $15 for a month's worth of playtime, then that's how they run their business and you are one person out of a potential 400,000-600,000 telling them how to run a business. Losing you as a customer, is them losing $15 a month, except they're already making double that amount by selling this Fat Mog mount. While you are free to tell them to not apply a CS or not, it is up to SE in the end, not the customer.

TL;DR SE dictates whether cash shop stays or goes, and that is the justification of why the CS is there. SE will use it how they please, if you're unhappy, then there's not much you can do except voice your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

In past threads, it's quite shocking to me how many people are 100% OK with items being exclusive to the cash shop. The thread does actually seem to have far more unhappy voices than usual, so that's nice to see.

IMO, everything should be obtainable IN-GAME at some point before going to the cash shop. I know, crazy idea, but since we do pay a monthly sub I figured that would be fair.

As far as the cash shop is concerned, fantasias, world transfers, name changes and basic account services are all dandy. Since there is no way the cash shop is going away, I would also be OK with them selling out-of-season seasonal gear (in case you missed the original run).

This direct-to-cash shop on a P2P game is wrong. :/

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Pretty much my point. Don't care about recolours, tbh I don't even feel that bad about in-game npc costumes but this is just wrong. Period.

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

I love how nowadays you are not allowed to have an opinion without being called a "korean F2P mmo fat wallet whale" or some other derogatory term clearly meant to insinuate that you are what´s wrong with modern MMOverse.

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It's not only a matter of opinion, tho. We're talking about how the game deals with items and I don't have any sympaty for people with that mindset nor I should have. You may have your opinion as much as you want, doesn't change the fact that I think that it's terrible and will voice that. Opinions aren't perfect little things inside bubbles that cannot be criticized.
If you're offended with the term, then I sorry (not being sarcastic here, I truly am), let me be less rude: by "mmo korean whales" I meant people that keeps paying/supporting/agreeing with exclusive cash shop stuff and makes this kind of unfair business live and grow and gets worse.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

My apologies. My very first MMO was XI, and everything was included with my subscription. I suppose I expected them to continue with their original thinking when it came to the value of their subscriptions.

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You seem to think that everything that´s behind a paywall would have been otherwise put into the game in another fashion when the truth is that without the extra profit, it may simply never have been made to begin with.

If i go to a restaurant and halfway thru my meal, my waitress announces that for only 1$ more i can have an extra dessert, i cannot accuse them of scamming me out of a dessert piece, because that dessert would have never been offered to me to begin with, if the offer had not been in place.

They never scammed me out of a dessert, they offered an EXTRA ONE for a price.

This is the same.

Sorry, but I think it's ugly looking. Not wasting $30 bucks on that mount.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Name a P2P MMO that doesn't have a cashshop.

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Dark Age of Camelot.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Exactly
*although yes, 30$ is pretty expensive for pixels

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Oh, there are quite a few things that cost more money but offer much less.
Like this ring you can give to a player in TF2. 100$ for that.

Nice. Another thing that should be in the game that we sub for. Would make a lot more sense for the moogle dailies than a dandelion. I guess you'll only ever be able to get 2 seat mounts if you pay cash.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Dark Age of Camelot.



Oh, there are quite a few things that cost more money but offer much less.
Like this ring you can give to a player in TF2. 100$ for that.

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That still exists?

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Originally Posted by Blazer

. I guess you'll only ever be able to get 2 seat mounts if you pay cash.

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I think the mount you get for 2000 mentor roulettes is a 2 seat mount.

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

You seem to think that everything that´s behind a paywall would have been otherwise put into the game in another fashion when the truth is that without the extra profit, it may simply never have been made to begin with.

If i go to a restaurant and halfway thru my meal, my waitress announces that for only 1$ more i can have an extra dessert, i cannot accuse them of scamming me out of a dessert piece, because that dessert would have never been offered to me to begin with, if the offer had not been in place.

They never scammed me out of a dessert, they offered an EXTRA ONE for a price.

This is the same.

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Logic is flawed... So if they added a fight against a random FF character like Cloud, beat him and you get glamour items. The only way to participate is with an item purchased at the mogstation you would say "They're just offering me some extra... for a price" ?

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Originally Posted by ErryK

That's only how you see it, and you are perfectly capable of deciding whether x or y is worth purchasing based of if the game is P2P or F2P. If a developer chooses to include a CS to a P2P game where they already charge $15 for a month's worth of playtime, then that's how they run their business and you are one person out of a potential 400,000-600,000 telling them how to run a business. Losing you as a customer, is them losing $15 a month, except they're already making double that amount by selling this Fat Mog mount. While you are free to tell them to not apply a CS or not, it is up to SE in the end, not the customer.

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You are right. At the end of the day, I get the choice whether or not I suppose this game with my money. However, simply stating that "they're only losing my $15" is quite the understatement.

I personally have no issues spending money on games, and have used more fantasias than any normal person should. My minor spending habits aside, the bigger concern should be that an unhappy player will more than likely spread their tales of woe to others. Official forums don't really count as they already have this group of players in their hand. However, all of the other sites are where the damage can really occur.

So yeah, who cares if i quit? As an individual, I of course make very little difference in the grand scheme of things, but you should never underestimate how much damage just a single person can do when they are unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Blazer

Nice. Another thing that should be in the game that we sub for. Would make a lot more sense for the moogle dailies than a dandelion. I guess you'll only ever be able to get 2 seat mounts if you pay cash.

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The RaF and Mentor Mount are still available to get without the shop.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

That still exists?

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15 years old and still kicking, has still a sub, AND remains to have the best PvP idea yet.

Its SOOOOOO funny to see people complain over this, its optional people get over it, either spend the money or stop complaining

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

snip

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What a single person can do, there are two people who can do the exact opposite. Just because you are unhappy does not mean that everyone you talk to will be unhappy too... what's that saying? "Don't knock it till you try it".

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

You seem to think that everything that´s behind a paywall would have been otherwise put into the game in another fashion when the truth is that without the extra profit, it may simply never have been made to begin with.

If i go to a restaurant and halfway thru my meal, my waitress announces that for only 1$ more i can have an extra dessert, i cannot accuse them of scamming me out of a dessert piece, because that dessert would have never been offered to me to begin with, if the offer had not been in place.

They never scammed me out of a dessert, they offered an EXTRA ONE for a price.

This is the same.

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This is more like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet (e.g. Hometown buffet). You pay your ~$12 entry, and then they have off to the side this cake that you can only get by purchasing it for an extra $30. Wouldn't sit well with a lot of people

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Originally Posted by Blazer

Logic is flawed... So if they added a fight against a random FF character like Cloud, beat him and you get glamour items. The only way to participate is with an item purchased at the mogstation you would say "They're just offering me some extra... for a price" ?

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How is the logic flawed.

Without the profits from the Mogstation item, they may never have made the battle against Cloud and thus that content is just extra content for a price.
If there is no profit, there is no optional content.

If tomorrow we woke up and the Mogstation was gone, you may feel like you are getting "the full package" because there is no longer anything behind a paywall.
But truth is, that you are simply missing on all that extra paid content, that now is no longer there.

As a non cash-shopping player, you are getting exactly the same amount of content that you would have gotten if there was no Mogstation.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

This is more like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet (e.g. Hometown buffet). You pay your ~$12 entry, and then they have off to the side this cake that you can only get by purchasing it for an extra $30. Wouldn't sit well with a lot of people

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Only this is not an "all you can eat buffet", that´s precisely the problem.
This is an ASSUMPTION that you made upon entering the restaurant, because you saw a table with many different foodstuffs being offered, but nowhere in the contract it says it´s an all you can eat.

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

How is the logic flawed.

Without the profits from the Mogstation item, they may never have made the battle against Cloud and thus that content is just extra content for a price.
If there is no profit, there is no optional content.

If tomorrow we woke up and the Mogstation was gone, you may feel like you are getting "the full package" because there is no longer anything behind a paywall.
But truth is, that you are simply missing on all that extra paid content, that now is no longer there.

As a non cash-shopping player, you are getting exactly the same amount of content that you would have gotten if there was no Mogstation.

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Exactly, non cash shop players, imo seem to think anything in the mog station is some kind of "missed" content to their play experience, its OPTIONAL, but I guess that word doesn't register to some

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

This is more like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet (e.g. Hometown buffet). You pay your ~$12 entry, and then they have off to the side this cake that you can only get by purchasing it for an extra $30. Wouldn't sit well with a lot of people

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Kinda like paying for booze at a buffet? I'm okay with that. I understand that's not included in my purchase, it's an optional item.

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Originally Posted by Blazer

Logic is flawed... So if they added a fight against a random FF character like Cloud, beat him and you get glamour items. The only way to participate is with an item purchased at the mogstation you would say "They're just offering me some extra... for a price" ?

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EQ had something similar. Dungeon you could only enter with a key bought with Station Cash.

SE wants to see how far they can push the players. Slowly but surely they will win the war of atrition.

Why not just add this to your already profitable subscription service? Because people will pay regardless. It's just sad that the player base is responsible for this if we weren't all just willing to bend over and accept these practices we might be enjoying this stuff as added value to our subscription.

I'm unsure how anyone can actually defend this as a consumer.

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

Based on what? Says who?
Because as far as i remember, my sub only guarantees my access to the game and the preservation of my character/account data on the servers.

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Actually the subscription is meant to go towards funding the development of future content. ArenaNet famously quashed the myth that it goes towards server upkeep costs when they pointed out just how cheap server hardware is to maintain relative to the revenue from subscriptions. People tend to get understandably angry when their subscription is being spent on making things that SE then try to charge us again for.

And just in case you were thinking it, please don't try to pretend the cash shop is funded by the money it makes from other cash shop sales, like it exists in some isolated economic bubble. I see this excuse pop up all the time and it's utterly ridiculous. The devs that make things for the cash shop are the same ones that make stuff for regular content patches. They don't have a dedicated cash shop sweat shop team. That means anything released in the cash shop was made using time and money that would otherwise have gone towards a patch as part of our subscription.

Cash shops in subscription MMOs are not 'optional extras' they're cut content that you can choose to buy back. You're losing value for money on your subscription and then being told to pay more to get it back. If you really don't see the problem with that then you probably just have more money than sense.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

SE wants to see how far they can push the players. Slowly but surely they will win the war of atrition.

Why not just add this to your already profitable subscription service? Because people will pay regardless. It's just sad that the player base is responsible for this if we weren't all just willing to bend over and accept these practices we might be enjoying this stuff as added value to our subscription.

I'm unsure how anyone can actually defend this as a consumer.

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They already add content that is meaningful, and this is all optional items, this adds nothing to the gameplay, and if people want a 2 seater mount they can go do the 2000 mentor roulettes or recruitment campaign, don't make this sound like it is something that you cannot get through a particular part of the game without

So when can we start saying the cash shop is the new end game?

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

Exactly, non cash shop players, imo seem to think anything in the mog station is some kind of "missed" content to their play experience, its OPTIONAL, but I guess that word doesn't register to some

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It's not an "option" to get it on the mogstation when it's exclusive there, it's no like you have OTHER alternative to get the itens, unlike event itens, recolours, creating the race you want at first, choosing your name and choosing your server. I don't see how you cannot understand that people don't find cool paying for a game, paying for a sub, payin for a expansion and then payin for an item if they like it. Wanna pay for it? Doesn't care about it? Great, but is that so surprising that some people do not find this move right? I guess that simples logic doesn't register to you.