If you leveled Conjurer expecting to be a black mage type character.. Can you swap?

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Originally Posted by Manafont

everything will be 50 by then and once 1.21 hits and the cap is raised im taking my mage classes to max first

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Dream on bro, cap isn't being raised until 2.0

the mage who sacrifices himself for power vs the mage who has cure spell..... seems obvious to me.

Grow up... geez. Why would SE change your job? They never said CNJ = BLM job.

Again, level THM and quit bitching. It's not like you don't have time before jobs come out. You might even have some fun doing it.

/end thread

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

You have like 3 months to get THM to 50 so get going! :)

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Actually, isn't it more like 4-6 weeks? CNJ and THM changes will come with 1.20.

This is such a hot BUTTon issue.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If you leveled Conjurer expecting to be a black mage type character..

you deserve everything you get.

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If mods wouldn't be down my throat the very instant, I could tell you what you should get.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I really have to ask though, did you really think the life loving tree hugging class to be the Black Mages and the death and shadowy class to be about the job associated with light and healing?

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Black mages in Final Fantasy circles are traditionally mages who cast spells with the power of the elements (usually of fire, ice, and lightning in the beginning and on to a greater list in later editions). And there's no question Gridania is all about the elementals who protect their forest, and its Conjurer guild being especially in tune with them.

But chances are, in addition to the level 30 classes, you'll also have to level Conjurer to 15 to be Black Mage and Thaumaturge to 15 to be White Mage, anyway. There's likely no avoiding only leveling one class to get either job.

Aside from the fact that theres no reason anyone should ever expect CNJ to be BLM and THM to me WHT, if you level only one or the other of the two in THIS game, then you are doing it WRONG!

You need the abilities from both classes if you don't want to suck, but don't worry, everyone can level both classes till jobs come out so this topic shouldn't even be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

For those that leveled one or the other, will there be a way to switch your character into the one you wanted from the beginning? A lot of people leveled THM for healing or CNJ for nuking.

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...Umm...I would've thought that by either R8 or R14 it would be obvious that Conjurers were White Mages. I've never heard of a DD learning a healing spell through leveling.

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Originally Posted by kensredemption

...Umm...I would've thought that by either R8 or R14 it would be obvious that Conjurers were White Mages. I've never heard of a DD learning a healing spell through leveling.

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(Should I tell him that Thaumaturges learn their own healing spells and have zero elemental nukes? Nah, he'd never believe me...)

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

(Should I tell him that Thaumaturges learn their own healing spells and have zero elemental nukes? Nah, he'd never believe me...)

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You never know what he might believe. It couldn't hurt to try. Besides, I wouldn't know much about the differences between the Thaumaturge or the Conjurer to begin with since I only played my Conjurer up to 15.

Conjurer is an interesting fusion of traditional White Mage spells (Cure, Paralyna, Poisona, Protect, Shell etc.) mixed with some of the quintessential Black Mage spells (Fire, Blizzard, Aero, etc.)

While Thaumaturge is more a fusion of traditional enfeebling Black Mage spells (Blind, Bio, Poison, Drain, etc.) and Dark Knight spells (all your Absorb spells) with just a smattering of traditional White Mage spells, namely Dia, Slow and Regen.

Either way, both mage classes could have had a somewhat equal claim for either the White Mage or Black Mage jobs. Though, if we're just comparing spell lists, Conjurer does hold more traditional White Mage spells than Thaumaturge.

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Originally Posted by normalforce

Conjurer is an interesting fusion of traditional White Mage spells (Cure, Paralyna, Poisona, Protect, Shell etc.) mixed with some of the quintessential Black Mage spells (Fire, Blizzard, Aero, etc.)

While Thaumaturge is more a fusion of traditional enfeebling Black Mage spells (Blind, Bio, Poison, Drain, etc.) and Dark Knight spells (all your Absorb spells) with just a smattering of traditional White Mage spells, namely Dia, Slow and Regen.

Either way, both mage classes could have had a somewhat equal claim for either the White Mage or Black Mage jobs. Though, if we're just comparing spell lists, Conjurer does hold more traditional White Mage spells than Thaumaturge.

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By my count, Conjurer has almost twice as many "traditional" black mage spells than white mage spells.

6 Tier 1 nukes
6 Tier 2 nukes
6 Ancient Magic nukes
6 Tier 1 Elemental enfeebling spells
6 Tier 2 Elemental enfeebling spells
2 Shock Spike spells
Sleep
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33 Black Mage Spells

versus

3 Cure spells
2 Curaga spells
3 Raise spells
4 Protect/Shell spells
3 -na Spells
2 Stoneskin spells
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17 White Mage spells

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

By my count, Conjurer has almost twice as many "traditional" black mage spells than white mage spells.

6 Tier 1 nukes
6 Tier 2 nukes
6 Ancient Magic nukes
6 Tier 1 Elemental enfeebling spells
6 Tier 2 Elemental enfeebling spells
2 Shock Spike spells
Sleep
-------------
33 Black Mage Spells

versus

3 Cure spells
2 Curaga spells
3 Raise spells
4 Protect/Shell spells
3 -na Spells
2 Stoneskin spells
-------------
17 White Mage spells

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Yeah in FFXI...there a WAY more other FF games, and they were not based this way. Some of you need to wrap your minds around the fact that the franchise goes miles beyond FFXI.

scourge and banish are the thm nukes, both of which are blm spells in the original FF and FFII

FFIII WHM has some elemental nukes. (aero.....whatnot)

FF IV both the BLM and WHM character elemental abilities.

FFV mage classes can level spells of the other mage classes.

FF VI there is little difference as various characters an learn just about every spell, but they have different learn rates depending on the spell.

FFVII the materia you arm adds spells to your list of I recall correctly.

in a few of the games whm has the astral 3 elements and blm has the umbral 3.

the list goes on and on ............


its primarily in xi. that it really gets to a point where spells and nukes are more class/job specific to elementals as BLM.

so stop claiming that all these elemental nukes are stricktly blm class spells......to add, in a large portion of the series, so many characters have spells from multiple jobs that the line gets very hazy.

if you look through the series game by game....this claim of elemental nukes being strickly blm becomes clearly a crock of crud.

the only true consistancy of spells listed in almost every game is cure, protect, and shell as white magic abilities.

the elemental nukes do 'tend' to be more associated with black magic but its only consistant in the 3 umbrul spells per game (which does vary from game to game)

Point is As of 2010, there are actually over 100 known Final Fantasy titles (about 103 to be specific). Most of these games are side games, sequels, etc. that are region-specific and Japan exclusives.

Knowing that, you still want to sit here and claim to know what class has had what spells in the majority of the series?

Ya and u still got to lvl sentinel for ifreeet so... bam!

Man... As stated from a Linkshell pal of mine, "You don't have any reason to not level a class to 50." So get your cugel or whatever that maracas Thaumaturge weapon is called and blow some sh*t with your Astral and Umbral powers!

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Originally Posted by Renshi

"You don't have any reason to not level a class to 50."

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Yes I do.
I hate THM to the point where I'd never go past R20, and it took me months to get it to 20 because I hate this class so much. I hate the skills, I hate the AoE cone, I hate the entire lore behind it..I don't want to be forced to play a class I hate that much, just for my elemental nukes to do some dmg.

And while I love to be a healer and usually play as a healer in parties, I don't want to be reduced to JUST that.

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Yes I do.
I hate THM to the point where I'd never go past R20, and it took me months to get it to 20 because I hate this class so much. I hate the skills, I hate the AoE cone, I hate the entire lore behind it..I don't want to be forced to play a class I hate that much, just for my elemental nukes to do some dmg.

And while I love to be a healer and usually play as a healer in parties, I don't want to be reduced to JUST that.

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2 solutions to your problem:

- Learn to play...
- Quit game...

THIS GAME IS A HUNT FOR SKILLS, MEANING THAT YOU HAVE TO LEVEL MULTIPLE CLASSES TO BE GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO!
If you don't want to do the above because you hate it then THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU!

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yes I do.
I hate THM to the point where I'd never go past R20, and it took me months to get it to 20 because I hate this class so much. I hate the skills, I hate the AoE cone, I hate the entire lore behind it..I don't want to be forced to play a class I hate that much, just for my elemental nukes to do some dmg.

And while I love to be a healer and usually play as a healer in parties, I don't want to be reduced to JUST that.

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You'll go far in this game.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yes I do.
I hate THM to the point where I'd never go past R20, and it took me months to get it to 20 because I hate this class so much. I hate the skills, I hate the AoE cone, I hate the entire lore behind it..I don't want to be forced to play a class I hate that much, just for my elemental nukes to do some dmg.

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Considering only lore is set to stay the way it is (and even that's just a guess) I don't see what the issue is.

Either way I don't think they should care what someone who has irrational hatred for a class would think.

You sound like a 5-year-old talking to his mommy. "I just don't wanna baaawww hawww"

Why is this thread not closed yet

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Considering only lore is set to stay the way it is (and even that's just a guess) I don't see what the issue is.

Either way I don't think they should care what someone who irrationally refuses to play a certain class in an MMO would think.

You sound like a 5-year-old talking to his mommy. "I just don't wanna baaawww hawww"

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If it is indeed true that lore is set to stay the same, which I don't recall reading a confirmation of, that makes this decision even worse. PS3 players are going to flay SE.

Also, your attitude really stinks. So they don't like the class. Big deal. Lots of people don't like stuff. Doesn't give you the right to insult them for it. I bet there is plenty of things you don't like. Being nice, for example.

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Also, your attitude really stinks. So they don't like the class. Big deal.

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That's right, it seems to be such a huge deal for them that they suddenly hate anything and everything to do with the subject.

Kinda like when we were kids and didn't want to do something.

His / her point is sorta valid. Yes, we shouldn't *need* to level a class we do NOT like to play at all just because there's some skill(s) that heavily impact our "main" class. The point of playing a game is having fun; leveling a class you don't like is not fun. This is far from being irrational, it is actually a pretty valid reason for not wanting to level a class. I hate melee characters in RPGs, my melee classes are low level. I only plan to start leveling them because it's far easier to level a class now.

THAT SAID

FFXIV has been advertised since forever as a game that not only allows us to play multiple classes on the same character, but that encourages us to do so. Playing such game and expecting to not have to level other classes at all is simply naive.

I never understood the debate. It's always been obvious to me that CON would have WHM and THM would have BLM. I mean, come on...

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet but, for those who are shocked by this announcement... you shouldn't be honestly. Info taken from http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/game...rysystem/magic

Thaumaturge
Death is Only the Beginning

In the hands of a skilled practitioner, thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction. At the heart of this school of magic lies the ability to call forth and command the latent aether within oneself through deep introspection.


Conjurer
In One’s Element

Conjury calls upon elemental forces present in nature and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yes I do.
I hate THM to the point where I'd never go past R20, and it took me months to get it to 20 because I hate this class so much. I hate the skills, I hate the AoE cone, I hate the entire lore behind it..I don't want to be forced to play a class I hate that much, just for my elemental nukes to do some dmg.

And while I love to be a healer and usually play as a healer in parties, I don't want to be reduced to JUST that.

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I hate magic, but my Conjurer is at 32. Explain that =)
Sooner or later you'll level it up, because you'll run out of things to do anyway, so either you stick to End-game content with your future 50, level up the remaining or create another character.

I never got this debate. CNJ and THM are classes, written with a completely different lore than WHM and BLM without any forethought of WHM or BLM making a appearance in FFXIV. The fans bitched, Yoshi-P scrambled, and we have this twisting of the lore to bring WHM and BLM in game. F*** the class lore. That's what SE thinks so you might as well get on board.

That being said, it was clear that CNJ was headed toward the WHM path when they gave it AOE cures only. That's was your "here's your sign" moment.

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Wha? CNJ can actually deal dmg? Since when? O_o I do Toto runs all the time as CNJ and always try to Nuke stuff (Yes, I used all my buffs {Profundity etc. . .} and things before hand I even made sure that Banish stuck so that Fire, Aero, and Thunder spells could become more powerful even if only a tiny bit)

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Know your elemental wheel.

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I never understood the debate. It's always been obvious to me that CON would have WHM and THM would have BLM. I mean, come on...

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I second that ^

You know what would be cool? If they're really implemented these "job stones" which can be equipped. That you can combine different jobs with classes.
i.e. Level MRD + GLD to 15/30, unlock PLD and equip the "Job Stone" on Archer and get an Archer which can use Heal-Arrows and some sort of DEF+ Arrows.

Or a lancer with a BLM Job Stone equipped could use elemental skills. Like Piercing Flame AOE! XD
Planning and Designing this would make a lot of fun to me :O

Or a PUG with DRG job Stone can use Jump Skills and maybe 1 or 2 Dragon Breathes.

So you could basically unlock a job and equip it ontop of your class for different and new play styles.

Each class would have 7 different Job Stones and different new Skills. That would add a lot of variety. But implementing that would take a whole lot of time and SE already got a pressure hammer.

~Just some random jibberish with a big dream attached to it X-x I want something like this waaaaaa!

Well, look at it this way. .21 is a good ways off. if you do want to unlock blm and play it to the fullest you have between now and then (a good two to three months) to put in the effort to rank it up to at least 30. as far as class play goes the two really complement each other. its really rare to see a player with one high and no work put into the other already.

in summation, you have a while. If you only have one of the two caster classes leveled with no ranks at all into the other your probably doing it wrong any way.

you shouldn't have lvled anything based on what you thought jobs were gonna be.

I'm of the opinion that you don't have a complete build until you level every class to 50. So no, you should not be able to swap.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Yeah in FFXI...there a WAY more other FF games, and they were not based this way. Some of you need to wrap your minds around the fact that the franchise goes miles beyond FFXI.

scourge and banish are the thm nukes, both of which are blm spells in the original FF and FFII

FFIII WHM has some elemental nukes. (aero.....whatnot)

FF IV both the BLM and WHM character elemental abilities.

FFV mage classes can level spells of the other mage classes.

FF VI there is little difference as various characters an learn just about every spell, but they have different learn rates depending on the spell.

FFVII the materia you arm adds spells to your list of I recall correctly.

in a few of the games whm has the astral 3 elements and blm has the umbral 3.

the list goes on and on ............

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Or you could go with actual facts:

The black mages and black magic of Final Fantasy:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Mage_%28Job%29
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Magic

The white mages and white magic of Final Fantasy:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Mage
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Magic

Odd... I thought it only took a week to get something to level 50.. If you spent all your time levelling CNJ only to realize that THM is BLM. Well, heck, you should be like over halfway there already right???

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Or you could go with actual facts:

The black mages and black magic of Final Fantasy:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Mage_%28Job%29
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Magic

The white mages and white magic of Final Fantasy:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Mage
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Magic

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Seriously WTF series have you been playing Coglin lol

FF3 Aero is the only attack spell WHM got.

FF4's two White mages only ever learned Holy as an attack spell (and one didn't even stick around long enough to learn that). The characters that learn both Black and White magic were classified as Sages.

FF5's White mage only learned Holy again as an attack spell.

WHM has never had Fire or Lightning, only wind and in one game.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yes I do.
I hate THM to the point where I'd never go past R20, and it took me months to get it to 20 because I hate this class so much. I hate the skills, I hate the AoE cone, I hate the entire lore behind it..I don't want to be forced to play a class I hate that much, just for my elemental nukes to do some dmg.

And while I love to be a healer and usually play as a healer in parties, I don't want to be reduced to JUST that.

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I just want to give a big Amen to this. This is what this thread is all about. Having fun, and doing what you like. Does playing an MMO really have to be work? Should you accept the work involved in leveling black mage if you picked Conjurer for offensive elemental magic? I don't think you should. So how about we get a dev response to this issue?

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Originally Posted by Meleena

2 solutions to your problem:

- Learn to play...
- Quit game...

THIS GAME IS A HUNT FOR SKILLS, MEANING THAT YOU HAVE TO LEVEL MULTIPLE CLASSES TO BE GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO!
If you don't want to do the above because you hate it then THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU!

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Needless to say, this is a rude post. Some people play this game to have fun. Try to keep that in mind.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Why is this thread not closed yet

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There is a lot of fighting and rude posts coming from the community in this thread, because I directly asked the dev team to look into the problem of swapping people's progress in their classes by introducing WHM and BLM locked to 1 class. Anytime someone asks the dev team to do something, people start freaking out because they're afraid their hard work will be ruined. Let's try to think critically and maybe even think about what it would take to get some inactive players back, starting with this topic.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

I never got this debate. CNJ and THM are classes, written with a completely different lore than WHM and BLM without any forethought of WHM or BLM making a appearance in FFXIV. The fans bitched, Yoshi-P scrambled, and we have this twisting of the lore to bring WHM and BLM in game. F*** the class lore. That's what SE thinks so you might as well get on board.

That being said, it was clear that CNJ was headed toward the WHM path when they gave it AOE cures only. That's was your "here's your sign" moment.

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I hope they don't toss the lore out because it's really great.

I know your heart is in the right place but this I still think it's a dumb idea to switch people over. The only situation I'd feel it was fair is if CNJ and THM were completely revamped and CNJ was unable to nuke at all while THM was unable to heal at all.

I don't think it would be anything that drastic because it severely limits the playstyles you can take on with the class (with versatility being the whole point of classes) and pretty much eliminates the need/point for having the Black mage and White mage jobs. I guess wait and see what the class changes are before you guys judge anything. Chances are you'll still be able to play CNJ how you like and the lore could be left alone, depending on how the tweaks work.