Problem with Duty forced into Expansion Content...

What? Queues have been 40+ minutes frequently throughout the life of this game if you're a DPS.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I'm not a big fan of level boosting players to the last bit of content like WoW does... It just makes the community overall worse... At level 60 you shouldn't be a "new player" you should have a really good understanding of how the game works by the time you hit max level.

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No disrespect but that attitude comes off as a little arrogant and somewhat elitist. I prefer communities that are actually more willing to help each other.

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Now, I'd read that as the exact opposite. The game should be friendly and players (especially new players) should be able to get help and learn the game. But that's part of why they shouldn't be rushed to endgame, where less of that help will be available, since the content there is designed for players who already know the basics of their job and role. Players should stay in the early parts of the game long enough for that learning they need, and long enough for getting that help you want to encourage.

Of course, there's still learning going on at endgame, but at that point it's focused more on learning the mechanics of specific fights. Basic skill at your role and job is better learned during the low and mid-level content. There may be a bit of final tweaking when you first hit level cap, but that isn't where you should be learning the basics.

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

What? Queues have been 40+ minutes frequently throughout the life of this game if you're a DPS.

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Not as a melee dps.
Maybe during the first year, but already before Ninja came ingame average queue time for MNK in the chaos server group (europe) was around 15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Not as a melee dps.
Maybe during the first year, but already before Ninja came ingame average queue time for MNK in the chaos server group (europe) was around 15 minutes.

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Unless I'm missing something here, the game doesn't care about types of classes, just their role, I can't swear that i've seen a party with 4 dps casters but 2 BLM and 1 SMN I did. In any case, the ARR content isn't played at all it seems, it's a weekend, I've queued at evening for what you see and I'm still where you see.

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Originally Posted by Geula

Unless I'm missing something here, the game doesn't care about types of classes, just their role

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Sort of. It will try to mix both melee and ranged damage dealers into each party if they're available, but can suspend that rule when it needs to, so will sometimes make a party where all DPS are melee or all are ranged if there simply aren't any of the other available. (For this preference, it's looking at the range of their attacks, so Bards and Machinists get lumped together with casters rather than with the other DoW damage dealers.)

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Originally Posted by Geula

Unless I'm missing something here, the game doesn't care about types of classes, just their role, I can't swear that i've seen a party with 4 dps casters but 2 BLM and 1 SMN I did. In any case, the ARR content isn't played at all it seems, it's a weekend, I've queued at evening for what you see and I'm still where you see.

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extreme primals and CT, not neccesary for MSQ and only part of the mentor roulette
for ex primals, try unsynched in the PF

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Originally Posted by Geula

Unless I'm missing something here, the game doesn't care about types of classes, just their role, I can't swear that i've seen a party with 4 dps casters but 2 BLM and 1 SMN I did. In any case, the ARR content isn't played at all it seems, it's a weekend, I've queued at evening for what you see and I'm still where you see.

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None of the places you are queuing for are either in main quest, or in roulettes. At the moment people not running crystal towers is widely lamented thing, and most people rather get ex groups from PF than in DF. However either of those have nothing to do with OP s problem which was to get into content required to pass main quest. And that gets ran rather regularly outside of patchweek bubble.

Could not agree more with the OP. It severely deters the drive to level alts. There's literally 100 quests between original game and expansion, and even if you skip every video, sprint to every destination, and get into dungeons instantly...it still takes WAAAAAAAAY too long to get to the expansion. I could see you having to do it once for sure...but it's such a pain to do it all over again on alts. Honestly the grind from 1-50, and the grind from 50-60 are much less annoying than that stupid gap between 50 and expansion. Now this is coming from someone who has been playing all along, I can't even imagine how that must deter players who are returning to the game since the base game and just want to play the new expansion that they just purchased. It's very poorly designed and I hope they don't do this in the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Darkside302

Could not agree more with the OP. It severely deters the drive to level alts. There's literally 100 quests between original game and expansion, and even if you skip every video, sprint to every destination, and get into dungeons instantly...it still takes WAAAAAAAAY too long to get to the expansion. I could see you having to do it once for sure...

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that's why you have multiple classes on the same character, can't join the same FC on alts and can't mail anything to each other. That's also why the sub that's alt friendly is more expensive. This game is simply not designed to have alts.

I have to have alts though, I'm co-lead in my FC and I'm Toon Link...so I always have to be the little guy with the green tunic :D. Sometimes I don't want to be lala so I needed an alt :D.

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Originally Posted by ddwarbird

I will stick with it because I got through a lot of this game by myself and without a free company. I just do not like it when mmo's force group content onto you. WoW doesn't do it and neither does EvE or most fantasy based mmo's. I just do not think it should be embedded in requirements for the main story is all.

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Woah, working together in a MASSIVELY ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game.

This crap is why Steps got hard nerfed to the ground.

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Originally Posted by Darkside302

There's literally 100 quests between original game and expansion

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I'm just curious why every thread I've seen complaining about the gating is bothered by those quests in particular. Most people seem fine with requiring the 2.0 quests and there are a lot more of them, but it's the 2.1 - 2.55 quests that people complain about.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I'm just curious why every thread I've seen complaining about the gating is bothered by those quests in particular. Most people seem fine with requiring the 2.0 quests and there are a lot more of them, but it's the 2.1 - 2.55 quests that people complain about.

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Usual reason I see is because, "There's no point since it was meant for 50's and the cap is 60 now." Which when you consider that they want people to understand the story, only means that we have to do the extra quests.

Square wanted us to understand WHY we went to Ishgard and WHY we're allowed in. They don't just let people in willy nilly over there.

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Originally Posted by mirta000

that's why you have multiple classes on the same character, can't join the same FC on alts and can't mail anything to each other. That's also why the sub that's alt friendly is more expensive. This game is simply not designed to have alts.

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Um, yes you can join the same FC. You can't invite yourself to the FC, of course. But you can either have someone else invite you or, if you want a solo FC, temporarily open up recruitment and relog to apply for membership. Me and my flatmate have an FC for our alts, mainly to stop the FC invite spam (and to make it easier to transfer stuff between characters via FC chest, though we more often mail each other's alts with stuff).

The game is designed to allow alts; if it wasn't, there would only be the "single character per server" subscription model.

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Originally Posted by Darkside302

Could not agree more with the OP. It severely deters the drive to level alts.

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I'm... half-and-half in agreement. Yes, it's annoying at times (like when doing the boring/repetitive stretches of the MSQ), but I also understand why they decided to do so. (Insert here any number of jokes regarding Ishgard being a gated community.)
Mostly, however, this doesn't have anything to do with the queue times for duties, since A) they give plenty of rewards for people to run the roulettes at least once per day, and all the things required for MSQ are in the roulettes. And B), if you don't want to rely on strangers, it's the perfect excuse to actually make friends with other players. You know, socialize. Play the game the way it was intended to. Before they added DF into the game. And I don't mean that in a condescending way. Me and my flatmate used to play this as a co-op, and found dungeons with strangers a chore. After we did Titan (normal), we decided "we're never doing hard mode if this was normal". Then... we made good friends, and found ourselves not only doing Titan HM but Ex as well, and loving it. I think the first thing either of us said after the first time we did HM was "...can we go again?"
No, most of my annoyance with their decision to lock 3.x entirely behind 2.x MSQ was their decision to lock the new jobs behind it as well. They could easily have placed their trainers somewhere in Coerthas or Mor Dhona and just locked them behind level 30. Lock them behind the level 30-ish MSQ if they must. Instead of this "get to 50, do all the 50 quests, then pick up the new job and start re-levelling it from 30 again".
I've accepted their decision to do so, but not happily ^^; (Besides, it's not as though they could change that now.)

Edit: (To save today's post count)

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I did have an idea for this to fix that problem, since I do wish my alt could just be DRK already.

How about if you've completed the 3.0 story (That's going to the 60 story.) on one character, you can unlock the jobs at 30 for your alts. This way the player has already proved something, and they don't just get a skip to 30 since they have to level up their first job to 30 anyways.

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It's a good idea. But it'd still give the same problems with the job trainers. They'd need to find some way of cross-checking achievements (or similar) and apply it to all other alts, and coming up with an alternative 'story' for how you become those jobs. The job quests are written, after all, based on their job trainers being behind the Ishgard MSQ wall. And while it might not seem like an issue now, I'd bet that if they took the cheap way out and let the story be the same, people would complain about how the job quests refer to stuff that hasn't happened yet. And if they changed it into the just "hey, you're now a [job]. grats", people would complain that it cheapened the [job] story. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

No, most of my annoyance with their decision to lock 3.x entirely behind 2.x MSQ was their decision to lock the new jobs behind it as well. They could easily have placed their trainers somewhere in Coerthas or Mor Dhona and just locked them behind level 30. Lock them behind the level 30-ish MSQ if they must. Instead of this "get to 50, do all the 50 quests, then pick up the new job and start re-levelling it from 30 again".
I've accepted their decision to do so, but not happily ^^; (Besides, it's not as though they could change that now.)

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I did have an idea for this to fix that problem, since I do wish my alt could just be DRK already.

How about if you've completed the 3.0 story (That's going to the 60 story.) on one character, you can unlock the jobs at 30 for your alts. This way the player has already proved something, and they don't just get a skip to 30 since they have to level up their first job to 30 anyways.

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Originally Posted by Darkside302

Could not agree more with the OP. It severely deters the drive to level alts.

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Took me just over 4 days to go from lv 1 alt to 52 and access to ishgard. Solo, with only doing MSQ partied dungeons ONCE each via DF. And i did this on two separate alts recently during 3.1 patch, BEFORE the special XP ring that you get... Crymore.

And yes, also had time to get 2 other classes leveled for crossclass skills and unlock job, also have 2nd lieutenant on them. Super easy.