By pity Square Enix, redesign Garuda-Egi

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

Okay but...you didn't answer the question. Get indignant and preachy all you want but at least keep the conversation going while you do it.

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Want my answer to their question? Because they can, go through the past history with Garuda not all of them look the same.

Because they change or tweaked it a tiny bit isn't something to get up in arms over, its far better than what it was before.

Welp, can't edit my recent post on mobile but anyway, I never really had much problem with Garuda-egi's look aside from it being small that it looks puny.
Pretty much all the egis look puny and pitiful because of their size but I understand why they went with so to avoid disrupting someone's view, and made them glow so people can spot them more easily, but still I think it wouldn't hurt to make them more bigger and more detailed.
And for why it doesn't feel like a Summoner, it's because it borrows Arcanist skills or rather the other way around so this is pretty much a lore thing. In past FF games, Summoners can use black magic anyway like Bio etc. which are the DoTs here so they have much right to be called a Summoner.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

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You know what it is right, they were spoiled by FFXI with the summoner having huge summons.

There are things FFXI did way better but cant expect things like that to carry over to new things like this. Different games different styles.

I mean I wish some of the stuff in FFXI would of carried over to this game but if it does or doesn't I am not gonna make a huge deal out of it.

I am glad new things are happening.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

You know what it is right, they were spoiled by FFXI with the summoner having huge summons.

There are things FFXI did way better but cant expect things like that to carry over to new things like this. Different games different styles.

I mean I wish some of the stuff in FFXI would of carried over to this game but if it does or doesn't I am not gonna make a huge deal out of it.

I am glad new things are happening.

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Pretty much. This game had a time where it was a FFXI 2.0 with some of the same people working from FFXI, especially the producer, but we all know how that ended, and with a bang.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

You know what it is right, they were spoiled by FFXI with the summoner having huge summons.

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FFXI's battle system was also COMPLETELY different from how XIV's battle system works. The Egis in XIV were designed to be small and out of the way - given simplistic design so as not to interfere with other players fields of vision, so they wouldn't be distracted by GIANT FLYING SUMMON MONSTERS and not be able to see AoE indicators or move out of the way/into of incoming mechanics.

The design choice is DELIBERATE and I don't get why people are so insanely out of touch about it. SMNs got a way better skill set and summoning ability in 3.0 than any Egi could have provided - the ability to channel the primals (well, so far only one primal) directly into their body. To me that's WAY cooler than more pet skins. (That said, I would like to see the Egi glamours eventually simply to give more flavor and personalization to the summoner. It'd be especially cool for RP.)

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Welp, can't edit my recent post on mobile but anyway, I never really had much problem with Garuda-egi's look aside from it being small that it looks puny.
Pretty much all the egis look puny and pitiful because of their size but I understand why they went with so to avoid disrupting someone's view, and made them glow so people can spot them more easily, but still I think it wouldn't hurt to make them more bigger and more detailed.
And for why it doesn't feel like a Summoner, it's because it borrows Arcanist skills or rather the other way around so this is pretty much a lore thing. In past FF games, Summoners can use black magic anyway like Bio etc. which are the DoTs here so they have much right to be called a Summoner.

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You say you understand why they were made unobtrusive, then say it "wouldn't hurt to make them bigger and more detailed". I myself don't play SMN but I do have to party with them and I say an unequivocal no thank you to bigger egis. If SE can do something with the design and leave it with the same impact on system resources and visual field that it has now, cool. If not, then it would hurt other players' ability to see and react to what's going on around them and it should be left well enough alone. If we had ridiculously huge summons like XI did coupled with XIV's playstyle, you can bet I'd block SMN off the caster slot for raid PF's. It's bad enough right now trying to get SMN to place their pets correctly, much less if the damn pet was forty feet tall.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

You say you understand why they were made unobtrusive, then say it "wouldn't hurt to make them bigger and more detailed".

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That's why I said "I think" before that phrase, because in my experience they're not really bothersome, as a SMN and as someone who have been in runs with other SMNs, but most people seem to say they're bothersome so that's why i'm doubting.

Why do you guys say bigger summons would hurt other players field of view? Many other MMO's have some sort of pet class, with bigger pets/summons/minions, and they're not disruptive, at all. It's just you've become accustomed to the way they are now and would resent the change.
Me not being a summoner and having no knowledge of their existence, i was a tad disappointed when i first saw one, they're okaish i guess, but look more like a cosmetic pet than a combat "summon". They could have been made bigger and more threatening, of course not ridiculous as their primals, but i understand this is never going to change, it would be the same as going to WoW and make their Hunter/Warlock pets/minions smaller.

*lore comment* (spoiler)

If Garuda doesn't look like the real Garuda, why should Garuda-Egi look like the not-so-real Garuda?

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Originally Posted by Mael-bess

It's just you've become accustomed to the way they are now and would resent the change.

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I used to play an online game where you could transform into a giant fighting, Gundam-esque medieval suit of armor. It worked in that game because of the scale- everything was open world and seeing a giant dragon wasn't rare, and a majority of the monsters were bigger than you regardless.

In this game, really very few non-bosses are bigger than our characters, and a ton of our dungeons are closed-in and indoors, so yeah having giant hulking summons would most certainly get in the way. Can you imagine going into like, Toto-Rak or Haukke Manor and having some Roe-sized, glowing, animated sparkly creature around? It would be /super/ distracting and get in the way, especially when the SMN doesn't move it and it just stands right in front of your camera and all you see is a giant glowing monster butt.

Before you start telling the group of readers as a whole that they would resent change in general, maybe reflect inward and consider that you might resent that you're used to big monsters in visually large-scale games and this games functions on a much smaller visual scale?

The thing with the FFXI primals was that you didn't have them out all the time, since they cost MP per second to keep out. Eventually it got doable to keep them out with a refresh and gear that reduced the MP cost of primals, but initially the primals were summoned, commanded to do 1 or 2 things (usually buffing the party), and then got dismissed again.

They have already said they won't change it so I don't see them changing their mind now because a topic popped up about it again. You may think a large amount of people hate it but too be honest most people don't even mind it in-game because they are not focusing on the look of their pet but the fight instead. lf you wish to complain about the look, go ahead I won't stop you but its a waste of time no offense.

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

Before you start telling the group of readers as a whole that they would resent change in general, maybe reflect inward and consider that you might resent that you're used to big monsters in visually large-scale games and this games functions on a much smaller visual scale?

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I have and you misunderstood what i meant, i'm not saying they should be bigger than regular monsters, not even bigger than Roegadyn male's, which are the biggest playable characters in the game afaik, it's just the way they are now, cosmetic pets look-alike, seems rather small. How can they be disruptive if they're made smaller than the biggest playable character?
Anyway just my 2cents, i'm not asking or even hoping for a change, it's not that game breaking.

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Originally Posted by Remus

They have already said they won't change it so I don't see them changing their mind now because a topic popped up about it again. You may think a large amount of people hate it but too be honest most people don't even mind it in-game because they are not focusing on the look of their pet but the fight instead. lf you wish to complain about the look, go ahead I won't stop you but its a waste of time no offense.

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Yes, because dying racial gears was a priority.

from 2.0 but still valid , bigger and improved models , something that looks badass and threatening

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...b1b68a2fcc.png

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Originally Posted by Remus

They have already said they won't change it so I don't see them changing their mind now because a topic popped up about it again. You may think a large amount of people hate it but too be honest most people don't even mind it in-game because they are not focusing on the look of their pet but the fight instead. lf you wish to complain about the look, go ahead I won't stop you but its a waste of time no offense.

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So "I have absolutely nothing to add to this discussion but still want to post".

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Originally Posted by Kupocoubo

Yes, because dying racial gears was a priority.

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Given I wear my racial gear as glamour, yes, yes it is.

My opinion is worth no less than yours.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Given I wear my racial gear as glamour, yes, yes it is.

My opinion is worth no less than yours.

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I was talking about the "waste of time" thing. If people consider changing egi as a waste of time, why don't they say anything about the other things that are not that important ? Hypocrisy.

Well Garuda is not bad, but Titan on the other hand is like a floating popcorn

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Originally Posted by Maero

Well Garuda is not bad, but Titan on the other hand is like a floating popcorn

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The two of them look horrendous, only Ifrit is faithful to the primal form, a bit

I'd like to see them all re-designed a little.

SE should rework the egis so they work like the summons in FF 1 - 9.
You summon the egi, the egi appears in a 2 minute animation over the battle field, do his big attack and vanish again.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Pretty much. This game had a time where it was a FFXI 2.0 with some of the same people working from FFXI, especially the producer, but we all know how that ended, and with a bang.

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Sorry, but FF XIV 1.0 at launch was never like FF XI-2
No leve system in XI, very different crafting system than in XI, market wards with retainers you have to check yourself one by one instead of an auction house or market board, faster battles, no job system, fatique exp, 2 contents to level up (leves and behest) and grinding on mobs in the open world was the lowest way to get exp (except at very few places with high def enemies because of random exp during the fight instead of a fixed exp after the fight).

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

We asked for Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan Egi. Instead we got Moonfire. Considering SE mentioned before HW something about an Egi glamour system this is indeed a fair and honest discussion.

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Not getting what you wanted =/= nothing.

I love how an argument against a change to the appearance of the pets is "Shut up, you already got stuff, be happy with what you got." Seriously? Is each class only allotted a certain amount of changes before they're "asking too much."?

The only valid reasons I feel against this are the worries about blocking the AE markers with larger pets, and that some consider it a waste of dev time.

Honestly, the changes don't need to be huge. Garuda could definitely use a change to look more like the primal it's patterned after. Titan could use some adjustments to not look like a chicken nugget. Ifrit is ok and my preferred pet when soloing just because it looks best, and you can at least tell which primal its based off of. Slight changes that won't cause undue hardships in combat for others, but bring alot of happiness for summoners is not a waste of dev time, imo.

I personally like the argument that it would go against the lore....

Um SE actually writes and creates the lore of the game so technically they could just write something else to explain the changes in the design. When it comes to lore there are literally no limits to what a company can do. They can write things however they want and explain them away in the silliest or cheapest of ways. How often to we get the old "a wizard did it" cliché already. Come on, lore is a silly argument against changes.

What I dislike is that SE solution is an Egi glamour system. Like there isn't enough glamour in this game already. I would rather them take the time to create new egi or a new system of utilizing egi than just glamours. It's lazy work imo

I would like it more of a priority if we made egis mechanically more important. Right now they're just some extra DoT that you will occasionally use a skill on. They don't feel integral to the class at all. Dreadwyrm Trance finally makes your abilities summoner based, but the egis are just kinda there.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

What I dislike is that SE solution is an Egi glamour system. Like there isn't enough glamour in this game already.

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But glamour is the true endgame.

And I want my egi to enjoy endgame.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

You stated you got nothing. I pointed out you did, in fact, get something.

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This thread isn't about getting more Egi's, it was about getting the garbage look changed. Granted, some of us broke into lore talk about having more and the lore reason for not, but that was spurred on by once again the point of the topic... their appearance.

So when the guy walks in here and posted "you got stuff and still cry" with no context other than making his first post in this thread which usually is said posters thought on the OP, I asked we got what exactly. Because in that regard, we got nothing, literally.

Now if this thread was about getting more Egi's, you and him might have a slightly relevant comment... however, in the literal sense of the usual request for more Egi's, we once again got... wait for it... nothing. And as a matter of fact, we got the dev actively making a joke about it in the first SMN quest.

For sure, we got something, but it was neither a new Egi, nor a new appearance for the current Egi or glamour for them. Which is... wait for it... what is always requested.

Edit: And to clarify, I personally am not asking for bigger Eg, I'm asking for ones that don't look garbage, the size is fine as is.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

I personally like the argument that it would go against the lore....

Um SE actually writes and creates the lore of the game so technically they could just write something else to explain the changes in the design. When it comes to lore there are literally no limits to what a company can do. They can write things however they want and explain them away in the silliest or cheapest of ways. How often to we get the old "a wizard did it" cliché already. Come on, lore is a silly argument against changes.

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Technically, there are no limits to what a company can do, but if they just decide to change things up in random ways just because they want to do it a different way or for the "rule of cool" approach then you end up with lore that is in tatters, much like what has happened to Blizzard's Warcraft universe.

Lore is only a silly argument against changes if the company isn't taking the lore seriously.

That being said, this is almost certainly a case of lore being created as a reason for a game play decision - they decided the Summoner should have three egi summons, and created the lore to match that, so it's not really a case of the lore limiting anything.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

This thread isn't about getting more Egi's, it was about getting the garbage look changed. Granted, some of us broke into lore talk about having more and the lore reason for not, but that was spurred on by once again the point of the topic... their appearance.

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My topic was clearly about the look of Garuda, not others Egis lol (even if I want the egi glamour, that's an other thing, in this topic I just raise my voice because I hate how Gardua egis looks totally out of place, and has nothing to do with the real Garuda)

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Originally Posted by Kupocoubo

My topic was clearly about the look of Garuda, not others Egis lol (even if I want the egi glamour, that's an other thing, in this topic I just raise my voice because I hate how Gardua egis looks totally out of place, and has nothing to do with the real Garuda)

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Yes, I am aware, however when one Egi isn't the only garbage looking one, it tends to go into talk about how all of them suck.

And technically talking about all of the Egi's includes Garuda ;)

Garuda is a bird woman. I can guarantee you the most important aspect to her as far as the Ixal are concerned is the bird aspect. Regardless of you controlling that small fraction of her aether, she's formed by the Ixali's ideal.

I can't quite understand how a bird like Egi with human proportions-ish is so surprising to anyone.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Garuda is a bird woman. I can guarantee you the most important aspect to her as far as the Ixal are concerned is the bird aspect. Regardless of you controlling that small fraction of her aether, she's formed by the Ixali's ideal.

I can't quite understand how a bird like Egi with human proportions-ish is so surprising to anyone.

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Please read any of the threads about the complaints with the Egi, you will soon realize it isn't about it being a bird... it's about it being a completely terrible looking bird that was made via a developer spitting his half eaten gummy bear sweet on to the table.

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/crave/gummy_bears.jpg

I have read the entire thread. I see a lot more complaints about it not looking like Garuda, even though it very much captures the essence of what Garuda is, than I do about the low-res textures.

EDIT: And I never said you shouldn't ask for things. I said saying you got nothing, regardless of it being what you asked for or not, is factually wrong. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Garuda is a bird woman. I can guarantee you the most important aspect to her as far as the Ixal are concerned is the bird aspect. Regardless of you controlling that small fraction of her aether, she's formed by the Ixali's ideal.

I can't quite understand how a bird like Egi with human proportions-ish is so surprising to anyone.

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To be fair, it looks more like a drake or pteradon than it does a bird.

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Originally Posted by Remus

They have already said they won't change it so I don't see them changing their mind now because a topic popped up about it again. You may think a large amount of people hate it but too be honest most people don't even mind it in-game because they are not focusing on the look of their pet but the fight instead. lf you wish to complain about the look, go ahead I won't stop you but its a waste of time no offense.

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well, all those people complained/requested about FF13 glamour/quest being repeated until SE decided to eventually put the items in the mog station to shut them up. c:

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Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

To be fair, it looks more like a drake or pteradon than it does a bird.

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Eh, so do the Ixal though.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130824181911

Personally ill prefer trow away BIG MECHA mounts (they too can block my view or mae a pew pew) and get normal Primals

.. and at least we can do .dat swipe no?

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

Garuda is a bird woman. I can guarantee you the most important aspect to her as far as the Ixal are concerned is the bird aspect. Regardless of you controlling that small fraction of her aether, she's formed by the Ixali's ideal.

I can't quite understand how a bird like Egi with human proportions-ish is so surprising to anyone.

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Lol since when Garuda egi looks like a bird ? It looks like a pterodactyle alien. And since when Garuda has a dinosaur face ?

"Eh, so do the Ixal though."

We don't care about Ixals. In that logic, Alexander's egi would look like a goblin, nice.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

Please read any of the threads about the complaints with the Egi, you will soon realize it isn't about it being a bird... it's about it being a completely terrible looking bird that was made via a developer spitting his half eaten gummy bear sweet on to the table.

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/crave/gummy_bears.jpg

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You are too kind, to me it looks like flying alien puke.