Goad - the ability that doesn't exist

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I always goad the other DPS when doing large group AoE but sadly a lot of non-mage DPS I met in DF didn't do AoE. Many ninjas didn't trade goad with me even after I goaded them.

but you have to understand this: Goad has a fairly long cd and mostly can be used for one group of enemies and it'll be down for the next group.

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Pretty much my experience as well.

*grabs popcorn and munches on it while watching people argue*

Now on to the topic at hand -
If you have a paladin in a dungeon setting pulling multiple packs - lets face it your TP is NOT an issue you are mainly spaming flash for the aoe barrage incoming on mobs - so goad is for the most part useless on a paladin at that point. Give it to your other physical DPS.
If you have war you'll do a couple of overpowers, and possibly a steel cylone and then keep doing cyclone every so often most likely - not really a TP issue.
If you have a drk - well your aoe aggro skill uses MP so... again no TP issue there(but maybe there are other aoe skills that do use TP later down the line).

Now lets see... if your co DPS is not a summoner or black mage - you goad them if they are seriously aoeing. But really it should be on large pulls only - otherwise it's just wasted.

In 8 mans if it's DF... well the DPS that burnt through most TP is a good bet. Tank after rez, DPS after rez. If premade well it's obvious you'll talk about it.

The same goes for foe, army's and mage's. In DF go with whatever works, in premades you discuss the flow and when it makes sense.

In all honesty, all melee DPS have some way of restoring TP so using Goad seems like a waste. WARs, I can understand but even then, they also have a means of restoring TP. Invigorate has a 60 secs less CD than Goad. Some DPS don't even bother to use it and expect me to Goad everyone... There's literally no excuse to not even have it, let alone use it.

You can't win.... As a BRD the only real efficient way to contribute AoE in dungeons is if everyone else is AoEing for decent damage too. I'm looking at you too, WHM with 210 gear just standing there throwing occasional heals.... Nothing hurts like having Foe run out then realizing the ones who can benefit from it don't give a crap.

Anyone that says a WAR doesn't need Goad over PLD/DRK doesn't know what chain pulling in dungeons is... If a WAR is pulling one group after the next to help the run go faster the WAR will need Goad. Seriously.
Couldn't believe what I read, comments that were voted up too... And people like fast runs, why don't you know fast runs eat up the TP of all tanks?!

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Anyone that says a WAR doesn't need Goad over PLD/DRK doesn't know what chain pulling in dungeons is... If a WAR is pulling one group after the next to help the run go faster the WAR will need Goad. Seriously.
Couldn't believe what I read, comments that were voted up too... And people like fast runs, why don't you know fast runs eat up the TP of all tanks?!

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If you really do chain pull (ie pulling a group of monsters while the last one of the current group is not yet dead but about to), not only you're burning your TP but those of DPS too since they can't regenrate TP between pulls, not sure the tank is the one that would take the most benefit of it in this case.

In DF group if I'm with a chain puller tank my goad goes to DPS, except it's BLM or INV. Does it ends slowing the tank since he runs low TP? Great, I hate not being able to do more than only apply my dots and cast ninjutsu once and a while.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

*grabs popcorn and munches on it while watching people argue*

Now on to the topic at hand -
If you have a paladin in a dungeon setting pulling multiple packs - lets face it your TP is NOT an issue you are mainly spaming flash for the aoe barrage incoming on mobs - so goad is for the most part useless on a paladin at that point. Give it to your other physical DPS.
If you have war you'll do a couple of overpowers, and possibly a steel cylone and then keep doing cyclone every so often most likely - not really a TP issue.
If you have a drk - well your aoe aggro skill uses MP so... again no TP issue there(but maybe there are other aoe skills that do use TP later down the line).

Now lets see... if your co DPS is not a summoner or black mage - you goad them if they are seriously aoeing. But really it should be on large pulls only - otherwise it's just wasted.

In 8 mans if it's DF... well the DPS that burnt through most TP is a good bet. Tank after rez, DPS after rez. If premade well it's obvious you'll talk about it.

The same goes for foe, army's and mage's. In DF go with whatever works, in premades you discuss the flow and when it makes sense.

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Not really here to argue, but if your running WAR and just overpowering a few times and not abusing bloodbath and berserk for its entire up-time in DPS stance on any large pull then your doing it wrong.

That being said, WAR does have equilibrium now which is most of the time enough to keep pulls fast. Throwing a goad my way only speeds up the process though.
If there's a DRG or another NIN in the group though they should be getting TP to AOE.

This is all 4-man content. 8 man long fights are quite obviously a completely different mechanic. PLD and DRK both burn through TP at troubling rates, WAR has less problems here (sans dying) unless for some reason equilibriums tank stance heal is necessary.

If you want a goad for a pull, you better have paeon up. I lose a hell of a lot more than your 15% by running dry and standing there doing nothing, and without the paeon the tank's going to need my goad anyway.

And if, after that, you still complain about it in chat? Goad's on CD so I can't give you that, but I do have a nice serving of shadewalker for you. It goes well with a side of smoked tank.

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Originally Posted by DisFlavored

I'm not ignoring the fact that I have Goad. Nor am I saying that I never use Goad, I guess I should have said reason's why I usually don't. It's usually #2.
If asked, I will provide it. Sorry if my forgetfulness comes off as lazy :/

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I apologize if that was not your intent, but the way it was stated seemed to me as though you were choosing to allow yourself to ignore the skill. You did follow up your list with "It is not the Ninja's job to manage your TP", which made it seem as though you're not interested in helping your teammates with TP. I agree that each job needs to effectively manage their own TP, but if you have the tools available to make it more efficient, then why not use them when you can? This isn't exclusive to Ninjas, though, as I personally encounter a fair amount of Bards that don't seem interested in support (even though they expect to receive it). I also see plenty of healers who spend more time hopping around than actually using any abilities, throwing out an occasional heal.

As a sidenote, I dont think any abilities in any job's roster should be succumbing to "forgetfulness". I think everyone should be fully aware at all times what tools and skills are available to them. Chosing whether or not you use those skills based on their usefulness (or lack thereof) is a different situation. Someone saying they didn't use an ability because they forgot they had it just doesn't seem right to me.

I use mine all the time but tank always takes priority no matter what. If I see a tank is nearing 50% then I hold it for the tank, if the tank knows how to manage themselves then others can have it.

I've been see a lot of tanks lately who blow through their TP like it's nothing and Goad has such a long cool down that I don't chance it because if the tank drops down and runs out then the party is screwed.

Really it's based on the party and how well people play their classes and since I mostly DF stuff it's always different but I'm always checking the other players, it's just a shame it has such a long cool down.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

I use Goad, but I hate the whiners who act like I can use Goad every 30 seconds. I can only buff one, which is why I have a priority: PLD/DRK > WAR > other DPS who use TP.

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lol yep, it's like I'm not Oprah I can't give everyone a free goad.

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I can count the amount of times I've seen a DF WAR switch to Deliverance for Equilibrium TP restore on one hand.

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You may not have seen it that much because, frankly, they usually don't even need that. Even without it they still hold TP the easiest out of the three tanks.

a good dps knows how to manage tp and know when to use invigorate too. like bards wardens peon goad is kinda a fluff skill.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

When I play my Nin I usually goad the tank when needed, but others don't ever seem to drop down much on the TP bar.

Edit: Also, my nin is pre 50 lol.

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Cause Bad Tanks use all that TP. honestly a WAR is the only one capable of dropping that much TP that quickly in big pulls, but if he is, he's bad at playing his job, 2-3 over power is all you need to hold a group if you cycle Butcher's combo among a group.

when i play NIN i look at the TP users who are doing heavy AoE and bringing the Deeps.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

a good dps knows how to manage tp and know when to use invigorate too. like bards wardens peon goad is kinda a fluff skill.

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Depending on the job im with (SMN for example) the group dies before i run dry, But if i run with a DRG or a NIN in large pulls, i will run out of TP even with proper invigorates, because that's just how it goes by the time the mobs are at 25% HP a little bit more TP would be able to kill the group, i either have to Paeon, or beg for a Goad. Goad being a much better choice if a NIN is present due to no momentum loss, having to Paeon loses GCDs and drops Damage on top of that. that benig said, honestly in most place you do large pulls it's going to be apples and oranges, a 4-10 minute extended dungeon is w/e. If the NIN goad's me, im very happy, if he doesnt, then i just chalk it up to being more DF shinanigans

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Originally Posted by Nanaho

Cause Bad Tanks use all that TP. honestly a WAR is the only one capable of dropping that much TP that quickly in big pulls, but if he is, he's bad at playing his job, 2-3 over power is all you need to hold a group if you cycle Butcher's combo among a group.

when i play NIN i look at the TP users who are doing heavy AoE and bringing the Deeps.

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This isnt always true, WAR's will spam OP during a Berserk at the beginning of a pull. That being said they should be able to use equilibrium 2x during a pull like that and will usually cycle butchers block at the end of pacification. OP spam in berserk is really..... really good aoe DPS on a group of mobs. It also provides really good healing if paired with bloodbath. Even better in big groups when used with vengeance... enough that healers can throw out dps and kill the groups faster even still.

again as a dps class dont exspect goad over the tank. A good dps knows to always make sure to stop aoe at around 200tp if no regen skills ready to use. Sorry but many dfs i run with don't have the luxury of nins and or bards/mch that actually use party tp regen skill. a dps that runs out of tp becomes useless btw so learn to be more self reliant.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Apparently, Goad has been removed from the game. That can be the only reason that Ninjas never give me (brd) Goad when doing heavy aoe. This is only slightly an exaggeration. I figure I get goad from less than 5% of ninjas.

This is the case regardless of what other jobs are in the party. In fact, I rarely, if ever, see Goad being used on anyone at all.

My songs are always up as appropriate. Perhaps you can play your job as well? Just a thought.

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Wow you are entitled. How about a "Goad please"? I understand it can be difficult to deign to talk to us unwashed masses, radiant one.