In your opinion, should the game be free? Or cost less per month?

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Fantasia allows you to completely change your race/gender, That and the name change are the only things that actually needs to be in cash shop, Heavly optional, and really shouldn't be givin as an example, aka you never have to buy one. so it shouldn't matter.

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Yet it's there, as is everything in the cash shop that adds to the overall revenue of SE not on a monthly bases but immediately. You basically just said the cash shop shouldn't exist at all, that all of the items on the shop should be in the game included with our fee. So again, is 15 a month worth this game? With a cash shop, dry bone content updates and a company that seemingly learned nothing from its live letter.

Making this game free is not going to suddenly make SE spout new content every month, nor is it going to make your gaming experience any more enjoyable if you're not enjoying it to begin with. I'd rather pay the sub.

I don't want it to be free, and I don't feel I should pay less, but I would like to see more.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, the game is never going to be "free" it either pay a sub which most likely will always be or go pure cash shop and end up paying even more then a sub would cost.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Are you positive it's ok? I mean one bottle of fantasia is 9 dollars. That's 60% the cost of the fee. So with cash prices and a monthly fee, don't you think we as a community would see better changes? If you bought a fantasia each month plus paid the fee you'd be giving them 288 dollars a year.

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Yeah but I don't buy a fantasia every month so that doesn't apply to me at all

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Yet it's there, as is everything in the cash shop that adds to the overall revenue of SE not on a monthly bases but immediately. You basically just said the cash shop shouldn't exist at all, that all of the items on the shop should be in the game included with our fee. So again, is 15 a month worth this game? With a cash shop, dry bone content updates and a company that seemingly learned nothing from its live letter.

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What exactly are you comparing its content release schedule to exactly? Compared to most MMOs on the market, FF14 produces quite a lot of content and the 5 month gap before 3.1 was an outlier.

Also which live letter are you referencing? They haven't had one in ages.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I'm not dooming it at all just wondering how the community feels based on the, but feel free to label it how you feel.

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problem is theres tons of threads about how ppl feel- was it really necessary to have another thread? I wonder why SE listem more to the JP player base than us.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

problem is theres tons of threads about how ppl feel- was it really necessary to have another thread? I wonder why SE listem more to the JP player base than us.

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go live 1 or 2 years in japan, and then you will be able to answear your question yourself

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Originally Posted by IzVale

The game subscription is fine. What should be for free are the damn retainers tho. Or at least pay once, have them forever.

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The retainer fee goes towards renting that server space for your additional inventory space. I'm fine with the cost, I know exactly what my retainer fee goes towards.

They need a tiered subscription model.

One that has a basic sub that allows you the basic game, lvl to 60, access to arr/heavensward zones and gear tiered about to law. (lets say 5.99 a month)

Another that has more endgame things to it, relics, extreme primals, alexander (lets say $10.99 a month)

and a high tier for high end games with everything the lower tiers offer plus high end dungeons, like coil but bigger. (let's say 15.99 a month)

Then people could pay for what they want to play and no one could use the "I pay for the same thing he pays for, why cant I have the same shiney he has without all that work" argument.

Sure higher end gamers would be paying for more, but that's ok, you get what you pay for. I would gladly pay $10 more a month than the standard tier to be able to play more difficult and rewarding content. Plus they could keep the cash shop up.

I am not financier but it seems like a reasonable model to me if the content was good enough for the higher tiers

I would pay more if content would come out faster.

I'm not helping the problem.

My honest answer is no, the game should not be free.

We will then get EVERYONE playing and not being serious about getting stuff done. Since we pay monthly, we want our money's worth. We get it by clearing goals.

*EDIT*
Too many folks rush new content. I mean, think about it: when there's maintenance for a few hours, the game goes down from 3am to 5am. People are waiting around for those hours for the game to go live again. Those players rush content; skipping scenes and stuff. By the end of the hour, they are complaining.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Don't you know the devs ALMOST DIED to make all that content!?

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Well that's a rather alarming and presumptuous statement. Link?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Servers don't keep themselves up on lollipops and good wishes.

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You're absolutely right. They keep themselves up on poorly hidden lies built upon a veritable mountain of excuses.

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Originally Posted by Aarik

Well that's a rather alarming and presumptuous statement. Link?

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I don't think they almost died but they did go two years with pretty much no break, often working weekends. As for a link, it was one of the interviews with Yoshi P after 3.0 launched. Cant remember which one. The whole team got time off except for a few, including Yoshi P himself, who started the planning work for the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Koza

I would pay more if content would come out faster.

I'm not helping the problem.

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How much faster, every 3 weeks? a month? Yea, you certainly aren't helping the problem.. They aren't robots.

But the fee is fine, Sub based games are the only trust worthy MMOs it seems, every F2P game has failed misrably in "we only care about our microtransactions, everything else is your problem"

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

How much faster, every 3 weeks? a month? Yea, you certainly aren't helping the problem.. They aren't robots.

But the fee is fine, Sub based games are the only trust worthy MMOs it seems, every F2P game has failed misrably in "we only care about our microtransactions, everything else is your problem"

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JP-PSO2 is actually decent as a F2P. Too bad it's not released in the west, and you'd need a proxy to play it with most ISPs these days. F2p can be done well, and has been done well as long as it isn't predatory or pay to win.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

What exactly are you comparing its content release schedule to exactly? Compared to most MMOs on the market, FF14 produces quite a lot of content and the 5 month gap before 3.1 was an outlier.

Also which live letter are you referencing? They haven't had one in ages.

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I think it was actually from the GCD last year they showed a panel that stated "If it's not fun you're doing it wrong" and I think a post on this site has the link to it.

I'm comparing the 2.x content release to the current state of the game. I understand that the crew needs time off which is 100% honest as any of us do. But for the game to have been in the lackluster state it was in so quickly after a " Major" expansion and having it still being lackluster is alarming. 2.x delivered content at a bit faster rate then I myself even liked simply because the gear progression but the story was nicely paced out. Here we are now with a main story I don't recall anything about but warrior of darkness standing on the moon and then later his team shows up and battles us and a gear limit that 99% of the community should have caught up to by now in this 7 month expansion.


The game has gotten stale and players want newer ways to accomplish objectives and newer things to sink there teeth in. And that's not our fault, we can't be blaming each other for how quickly we each complete our personally determined goals in this game. The only people who can fix this is the people we provide a monthly fee + cash shop profits to. And when so many players are up in arms not about a dungeon, a raid or a grind. But the integrity of the games direction and it's current well being of not providing any ingenuity. Then it's time for us to ask these questions about where is the money going and where are we heading as a whole.

You know, with all this complaining. Doomsaying very limited amout of people have actually steped up and offered up a solution or describe what you do have fun with.

First off, people are burned out due to the large gap between expa launch to 3.1. Which did add new stuff., not everyone liked it but they did add it. They also added the 1.0 gathering minigames.

As for relic, I personally like that you get it by simply playing the game doing stuff. If they added new trials it wouldn't last the long term. Once people stop doinng the trials it gets hard to que for them. Look at crystal tower.. people rarely do it. Meaning new players miss out. I did 2.0 relic late in the quests life and it did take time to get into the new trials.

As for the thread itself. Do you have any research to show mmo who have a cheaper sub then 12.99 usd? And is a great game?

Personally speaking I think Yoshida and crew made a good discision as they took consideration for the long term, not just the present. Game devs not only need to look at the "right now" but the "6 mnths from now" when making content. Content in the 2.0 seriers was put out too fast and was quickly made irrelivent as everyone got everything rather fast.

100 000+ people paying $15 a month.

Now remove this $1 500 000 revenue.

I really can't imagine how the game will be any good with it losing $1.5 million dollars per month or more with it going free.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

They need a tiered subscription model.
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Are the prices you have listed for Legacy, Entry or Standard account?

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I think it was actually from the GCD last year they showed a panel that stated "If it's not fun you're doing it wrong" and I think a post on this site has the link to it.

I'm comparing the 2.x content release to the current state of the game. I understand that the crew needs time off which is 100% honest as any of us do. But for the game to have been in the lackluster state it was in so quickly after a " Major" expansion and having it still being lackluster is alarming. 2.x delivered content at a bit faster rate then I myself even liked simply because the gear progression but the story was nicely paced out. Here we are now with a main story I don't recall anything about but warrior of darkness standing on the moon and then later his team shows up and battles us and a gear limit that 99% of the community should have caught up to by now in this 7 month expansion.


The game has gotten stale and players want newer ways to accomplish objectives and newer things to sink there teeth in. And that's not our fault, we can't be blaming each other for how quickly we each complete our personally determined goals in this game. The only people who can fix this is the people we provide a monthly fee + cash shop profits to. And when so many players are up in arms not about a dungeon, a raid or a grind. But the integrity of the games direction and it's current well being of not providing any ingenuity. Then it's time for us to ask these questions about where is the money going and where are we heading as a whole.

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Thats not the question you asked. You asked should this game be free or be less a month. Thats a very different question. Really, I'm not sure there is any way to definitively answer were our money is getting spent since we have very little insight into the inner financial structure SE operates off and how much of FF14's revenue is redirected back into the game. Anything we discuss here is simply going to be baseless assumptions.

More over, I point back to one of my earlier posts where I asked a question. What are you comparing FF14 to in the release level of its content. Itself? Another game? If we look at it against its major competitors, particularly WoW, it holds up pretty well even with the break. Add to that they have outright stated that the 5 month break will not be the norm and they will be back to 3 month releases in 3.2.

As for the story, if that is all you remember from the story you haven't been paying much attention. You seem to have forgotten the Dragonsong War, the Garleans, the Warring Triad, the missing Scions, what is going on with Urianger, and the political upheaval in Ishgard. The story might have been shorter in 3.1 (a trend I hope doesn't continue) but its quality was up from 2.1. I mean, did you really find Moggle Mog and moving to Revenant's Toll to be that engaging a story?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think FF14 is without problems. Far from it. I just don't think it helps to leap to conclusions or make the assumption they are lying to us. The game is clearly lagging for many people and I have my own theories on why but until I'm not going to jump to conclusions. Further, $14 dollars a month is still great value for this game.

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Originally Posted by Reilyn

JP-PSO2 is actually decent as a F2P. Too bad it's not released in the west, and you'd need a proxy to play it with most ISPs these days. F2p can be done well, and has been done well as long as it isn't predatory or pay to win.

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PSO2 is actually the ONLY F2P game i can stand playing, i'v givin up all hopes they will ever western release it (mosty due to how the AC scratch works) and dragons dogma online is another one i'v been dying to try, But is also "JP only"

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

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So basically you want to pay more for the game to make it worse? I don't understand the logic behind your request for pay 2 win, pay 2 gear, pay for glamour etc...
Best thing to do if someone doesn't like the game is to unsub.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

We've been in this stagnat expansion for almost 7 months and we've had less content, more nurfs, nurfs to things before they come out, lazy designed content, no class adjustments, more items added to cash shop and now recycled atma 3.0.

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This is your opinion and opinions are subjective at best.

Alas, this is NOT how I feel. I feel patience is a virtue. I am having fun. 3.15 brought a lot of people back and now people are working together and making friends.

In my opinion, 3.15 is the best thing that could have happened. Hell, Heavensward zones are PACKED.

This game earns it's 12.99$ from me. Big time.

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Originally Posted by mandodo69

This is your opinion and opinions are subjective at best.

Alas, this is NOT how I feel. I feel patience is a virtue. I am having fun. 3.15 brought a lot of people back and now people are working together and making friends.

In my opinion, 3.15 is the best thing that could have happened. Hell, Heavensward zones are PACKED.

This game earns it's 12.99$ from me. Big time.

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I agree with you. The HW zones are full of people fate grinding. I have made some new friends in the fate parties and am having a blast with it. I also was able to level my WHM to 60 doing the fates instead of the dungeon grind.

Take a look at this rather compelling argument against the subscription model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsQNoZxfS_o ( i appreciate that he thinks WoW and FFXIV are actually good models of sub games but it's still good argument)

Personally do i think that every 3 months i'm getting £25 worth of content? No. At least not anymore. I'm paying what £96 a year for the sub + base game and any expansions? Thats the equivalent of about 2 - 2 1/2 Witcher 3's. One Witcher 3 has more enjoyment than all of the hours put into FFXIV for me.

Now i can already feel the rage of some of you coming, and your right, it's not really a fair comparison, and to be honest i'm probably biased because i'm also likely the only person in the world that thinks the FFXIV STORY is garbage, but then again i'm not really a JRPG story fan so maybe i'm getting less value for my money than some of you.

Personally 13$ is very good especially considering other subscription prices are usually 15$.

The game should not go F2P and honestly the price is just fine.

Personally no, I wouldn't want the game to become free to play. What I would like though, is a return to what happened in 2012 whereby having both an FFXI and FFXIV subscription gave a reduction for the former. Shame it was only for a few months, I'd love a combined subscription for both games.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Are the prices you have listed for Legacy, Entry or Standard account?

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example lol

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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You're right I did ask whether or not the game should cost less or go free, that has been given a response each post with each person saying yes and no. And it was pretty obvious I was comparing the content released between the expansion and 2.0 as I never stated anything about any other game. As for claiming I haven't paid any attention to the story, then following up saying moving to Toll wasn't not interesting is almost questionable in its own right. 2.0 actually showed the world changing and people coming into power and the rise of the warrior of light, not to mention many other questions that 3.0 hasn't even touched 7 months into the life of its existence. In 3.0 we had a primal pop up out of a lake but that didn't concern anyone, yet a dragon landing in Ishgard causes panic, the death of a minor character they tried to turn into a major role and the warriors of darkness.

2.1 had three story beats.

- F'lhaminn returning to the story and her connection to Minfilia/Ascilia which was sadly only very shallowly explored as was the fact that Minfilia is using a false name.

- Moving to Revenant's Toll which was mainly running errands.

- King Moggle Mog.

Now don't get me wrong but there wasn't a lot of plot development going on. In 3.1 we See the introduction of the Warriors of Darkness, the introduction of a character first referenced in 2.x who has a long standing friendship with Minfilia, the return of an old friend, new information on the echo and the crystals of light, a look into the political struggles with Ishgard as it tackles a major upheaval to its cultural dogma, glimpses of the fates of missing friends, and glimpses into the activities of Elidibus and Urianger.

3.0 ended with a huge number of developing and crucial plot threads, from the prospects of a major Garlean invasion, the prospects of three Eikons on the level of Bahamut breaking free from their prisons, the introduction of the Warrior of Light, the complete overturning of the traditions Ishgard has lived by for a thousand years, and of course a fully restored Nidhogg. I said you didn't pay attention cause you said 3.x has basically just been the Warrior of Darkness, who has so far been a minor plot point.

As for the Primals, why would Ishgard, a known insular culture, be worked up over a primal that has turned up far outside their borders, when Ishgard really has never dealt with the impact a primal. Unlike the other city states, the beast tribes and the primals have had very little impact on Ishgard's lands. Dragons however have been trying to kill them on sight for 1000 years. Of course a dragon turning up in Ishgard is going to freak everyone out. Ishgardians are terrified of dragons and with good reason. To many Ishgardians in the past they have been seen as the embodiment of evil.

Now I did say that currently I found the 3.1 story too short though for me the Scholisticate quests made up for that a bit. I also said that the 5 month break between 3.0 and 3.1 was a problem both gameplay and story wise. However they have said that the patches would go back to 3 month cycles again so we should see that speed readjust to what it was in 2.x. One can also claim issues with amount and type of content released which is quite fair. I personally think a couple of extra trials would have helped and Alex has been a major disappointment for many. I also don't thing Diadem hit the mark but I do think its worth them trying to do new things which by the nature of trying new things means occasionally things will fall flat.

The story however has hit the mark brilliantly. It might not be a story that appeals to you but its depth and quality show that Yoshi P's team is really hitting their stride on that front.

Finally, when I ask about what you compare FF14 to, its because if you want to ask a question of value for money, it's best to compare to similar products, or for that matter sources of entertainment, on the market. In this regard FF14 is very strong. I ask this cause its very relevant to your original question. While you might not feel personally that the money is getting you the entertainment you want, believing that your not getting content worth what you are paying is subjective to exactly how much the content costs and the only way to ascertain that is to get a feel for how much the MMO content is generally worth on the market or to know in detail the actually level of time and complexity the process of developing content actually takes. Otherwise you run the risk of setting unrealistic expectations on the quantity of content your money is worth.

The sub fee is pretty cheap.

But there's so little content currently it's hard to justify paying the fee.
For raids, Alexander Savage is monotonous, boring and difficult. Difficulty =/= fun.
The dungeons are pitiful, 6 months of Nevercast and Fractal have been followed with another probable 6 months of the two new dungeons (I don't even know what they're called, I haven't done expert roulette in months).
PvP isn't too bad, but there needs to be more maps other than Seal Rock at 60.

The relic grind I was very interested in doing in 3.1 as I skipped the first relic due to having no interest in grinding for atma. Guess what, I'm now skipping the second relic whilst wondering what YoshiP and the devs are smoking - did they even listen to the feedback from the first atma grind?

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Originally Posted by Jon_00

The dungeons are pitiful, 6 months of Nevercast and Fractal have been followed with another probable 6 months of the two new dungeons (I don't even know what they're called, I haven't done expert roulette in months).

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I just want to point out that they have stated that they will be going back to the 3 month cadence and that the gap between 3.0 and 3.1 isn't going to be the norm. However I agree that grinding the same two dungeons for months on end can be extremely dull.

That said, I personally really liked the 3.1 dungeons.

I do agree though that Alex as a major let down and honestly I think has contributed a lot to the dissatisfaction a lot of players have. Also considering that if we had been on a 3 month cadence from the start we would be getting the 3.2 around now and a second wing of Alex.

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Originally Posted by Jon_00

The relic grind I was very interested in doing in 3.1 as I skipped the first relic due to having no interest in grinding for atma. Guess what, I'm now skipping the second relic whilst wondering what YoshiP and the devs are smoking - did they even listen to the feedback from the first atma grind?

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Its not exactly the same since at least in the new relic quest you don't have to do the FATEs in the same class so you can use it to level alt Jobs and such. However I'm not a huge fan of the RNG element. It was bound to be a grind because that's what they always said it would be but it would be better if FATEs gave guaranteed progress with the RNG part being a potential bonus reward. Kind of like FATE lights.