is this game near the end of it's life?

It's not even close to dead. There's Korean F2P games that have lasted longer than this. Even if they stopped caring right now, which they've apparently began to, this game would go on for probably another 5-6 years.

2.0 existed to gain trust back.
3.0 exists to test that trust- to see what players offer undying loyalty.
4.0 and above will adjust to the lowest bar of risk/innovation (set in 3.0) they can survive at.

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Originally Posted by Magis

You're missing the point. FFXI's relic grind was huge yes... but what did you get out of it? A weapon the would be BIS for YEARS, a weapon that gave tons of stats and traits, as well totally new weapon skills. The reward was WORTH the grind.

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So, if the animas arent worth the grind, why are people still doing it after complaining on reddit and here instead of unsubbing like they say they will do? Lol

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

This thread pops up every patch since the game launched. The answer is no.

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^^ Read with your EYES people.

I feel as if people are mainly complaining about the game dying because the relic grind. That seems like the main reason no matter how much they try to say otherwise..

The game is still young, but Heavensward content has been a rough spot. SE seems obsessed with making things unusually hard and/or unrewarding.

A2S->A3S's difficulty jump
Crafting woes
Relic i210 step
Red scrip system
Favors
Diadem hurting remaining interest in A1S-A3S
More RNG-happy Triple Triad opponents
...etc.

No matter how little or bad content they give us, it will still keep going on as long as it has "Final Fantasy" attached to its name, I think.

So I constantly say I'm going to reply to these and I never do but I had to for once. So here is my credibility played ffxi for 6+ years. And have played this since beta having almost 500 days of play time on ffxiv.... Yes I am a no lifer. All day everyday even though I more often than not hate this garbage game. Why, I, like every one else continue to play... Because it gets me my high, my fix. I'm a consumer and I just want want want. This games "lazy development" is a disrespectful slap to all the gamers and "customers" who pay monthly to keep SE revenue up. FFXI hands down no arguing was far superior than ffxiv in terms of content substance in all aspects: raiding end game, story, music only to be beat by graphical content due to ps2 limitations. You didn't have these BS reskins of EVERYTHING(LAZY). AS1 very similar to BCOB turn 1 split cleves kill. As2 BCOB turn 4. BCOB Turn 2 is As3 Twintania moblie while its counterpart is a stationary As4. Square Enix please for all that is sacred about final fantasy: Get rid of the "Blank of Blank gear" its lazy, it boring, it lacks any creativity, and disgraces the legacy of your predecessors from ffxi. The ONLY thing ffxiv beats xi in is graphics. Please bring actual GOOD content to ffxiv I.e Voidwatch, Neo Nyzule Isle, weekly conquest, Key item Pop NMs, wildskeeper reives, delve(similar to diadem). For all the people planning on responding with "this ain't ffxi blah blah blah" please educate me why? Why not bring content from a game that lasted 14 years and still as its on its last breath has players fighting to keep it alive. Easy answer its amazing its fun, always something to do. And rarely do you find reskins, bs relic busy work, or "hush money" patches don't get me started on the crappy glows of the relic from 2.0 for RNGesus sakes at least let me choose what color. If ANYONE in this game says they are 100% satisfied with the way this game is you're a liar. HW sucked, I didn't even know what was going on I ignored the story except when dude got covered in red(just in case don't wanna spoil) cause it was crap. We allow this content to continue cause we would rather be so stubborn and defend this "lazy development" rather than speak up. As consumers we are the strongest most deadly thing to a company, yet we fight amonst ourselves. OP had a good point this game while not the last nail in the coffin, has put another nail in the coffin. At most this game won't withstand the test of time. It's sad cause it could be a great game and was at first til they slowly started down the road of LAZY development.

TL : DR : SE is lazy and are reskinning to much on this game bringing it down

No, but if they continue this path the game will lose alot of players. The long break between 3.0 and 3.1 did some damage and the grindfest that they turned the new relic quest only turned more returning pllayers away.

I was hoping on bringing back some of my friends, but the moment they saw phase 3 of the Anima, they went NOPE NOPE NOPE.

Jesus this forum, can't post a opinion just because you have a limit of 1000 characters.

To help put this into perspective, I haven't logged in outside of raid for about 2-3 weeks now. Today I messaged some of my friends who I don't raid with in our group conversation on Whatsapp, it turns out 5/7 of them have unsubbed because of the lack of content in the game over the course of the last few weeks that I haven't been active.

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Originally Posted by Magis

You're missing the point. FFXI's relic grind was huge yes... but what did you get out of it? A weapon the would be BIS for YEARS, a weapon that gave tons of stats and traits, as well totally new weapon skills. The reward was WORTH the grind. As one person long back on some post said "it broke the game how good it was". Now let's compare with FFXIV's relic: It will be replaced by other items with a better ilvl next patch. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

You would spend more time grinding for it than using it.

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Funny you say this because if you scroll down more on the content the game offers they only say gathering, FC, crafting, glamour,housing and gold saucer nothing about raids at least they put down dungeons showing how easy they are lol :P

i think one of the trouble is the lack of survey for know what the WHOLE community feel... they meet a lot the japanese playerbase, every month actually, but that only one part of the community... and they have different taste than us.
Grind, zergfest and such don't annoyed them that much, however, on our side that the case.... but they seems to not care

God I did not miss browsing these forums.. Children as far as the eye can see. Anyway, agree with OP.

Oh get a grip!

New player here. Been playing casually since February. I have 120 days subbed. There is so much to do that I don't really know what to do. And even the small things are very grindy so I get bored pretty quick.

SE got overconfident on HW. Then you had that 5 almost 6 month break before we saw another patch which in turn really hurt the playerbase. 3.1 and 3.15 simply arent enough to make up for it. Even though 3.1 did bring players back. Its just right now not enough.

It's not at the end of its life but it's at end of its creativity. They found a pattern that they think will work forever (or at least this expansion) and I doubt they'll change it unless things go very sour. How confident they are that people won't get bored of the same formula for all future content, time will tell. Judging by the forums, there are a lot of addicts who'll consider any checklist worth doing as long as SE gives it to them, regardelss of its content. As long as those people can keep the game alive, it'll go on to fund SE's other projects.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Judging by the forums, there are a lot of addicts who'll consider any checklist worth doing as long as SE gives it to them, regardelss of its content. As long as those people can keep the game alive, it'll go on to fund SE's other projects.

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You realize on Call of Duty there's people that go around just shooting each other over and over for hours on end.... This game got a lot more variety than that. I'd say one of the biggest mistakes SE made with Heavensward was listening to all the complainers. Everyone got bored of the expansion like 2 months after it came out because it was so easy and quick. There are people that raided for 2-4 months to get a 210 weapon, and people are complaining about doing beastman quests and dungeons for 2 months to get essentially an equivelant weapon.

What I find funny is how many of the white knights were rushing to the defense of the team taking their extended break before 3.1 now QQ'ing at how much of a let down 3.1 has been.

ye, for me it does not make sence, if u wana take a vacaion, why not go vacation 1 by 1, and have a replaceement for the person going on vacation? or is the staff too little to suport that?

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

You realize on Call of Duty there's people that go around just shooting each other over and over for hours on end....

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Do you not understand the why games like CoD and super smash brothers melee can stand the test of time despite not seeing much change at all? Super smash brothers melee has GROWN in popularity and it's 14 years old and still growing. It gets NO updates.

The reason those games can last is because the base formula allows for complex thinking, which in turn makes every game different. This player does hadoken hadoken hadoken. But not the same way or timing as another guy.

This keeps it fresh

In ffxiv, everything is scripted, so once you figure it out the first time it becomes like watching a movie that requires a button rotation.

^this. Or pokemon. I still play it. Very little grinding (in fact, every generation makes it easier to level up, breed and catch shinies), and even though it is mostly the same, the core game play is so strong that they can actually afford to do that. And the gameplay changes it gets effectively expand it and build upon it rather than being more of the same.

FFXIV can't afford to do that (and I say it as someone who has never one complained about classes, I main whm and think it is absolutely perfect) but does it anyway... and people are bored. You don't need a grind to keep people playing!

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Originally Posted by Moqi

FFXIV can't afford to do that (and I say it as someone who has never one complained about classes, I main whm and think it is absolutely perfect)

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I believe healers are the only jobs that are the closest to having a non scripted fight because you never know when someone is going to fail at dodging.

I did not log in since yesterday and I feel good.

I've been reading the whole thread every page post by post and I don't think some posters get it. The game isn't dying because of a grind, the game isn't dying as in it will be dead. It's dying because they won't release interesting content. The relic grind contributes to losing subscribers, because they pushed it back so much, that it gave us false hope it would be amazing, that we would have to grind in different way over the 2.0 relic. Mindless grinding and progress grinding are both different things. Why haven't they made use of the current primals? Why haven't they used Alexander normal or even savage? Why is the only content worth "reviving" dungeons? Couldn't they used the old primals? Couldn't they have used Coil? Last time I checked a lot of people still haven't beaten the coil of bahamut or every primal in the game. I'd sooner spam Primals Extreme for a item drop with 5% chance to drop and everyone has to roll for than what we currently have to do.

Well I'd hope it would be for those who dislike all the content.

If they used old content the same people would complain about nothing new same old grind, SE can't win lol

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

I've been reading the whole thread

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I agree.

It makes me wonder if they ever think

"Hey what if we bring back titan ifrit and Garuda, they get to reuse assets, so they won't have to design more have a story where for some reason the beast men work together and you need something from them to make the weapon. Make it where you have to fight both titan and Garuda at the same time with combo
Mechanics.

Imagine titan dropping rocks on the ground. And every so often Garuda will do a tornado move that rotates the rocks around the arena. So you have to pick up rocks and place them in a pattern so when they spin around they don't hit people. I doubt development would take THAT much of a hit. It's just reusing assets and making a fresh experience. Rather than... Go back and do this 800 times.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Do you not understand the why games like CoD and super smash brothers melee can stand the test of time despite not seeing much change at all?
snip

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Also CoD and Smash are one time purchases. You pay and get X amount of hours out of it. MMO's have to keep you engaged to justify the monthly fee.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

You realize on Call of Duty there's people that go around just shooting each other over and over for hours on end.... ...Everyone got bored of the expansion like 2 months after it came out because it was so easy and quick.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

The reason those games can last is because the base formula allows for complex thinking, which in turn makes every game different. This keeps it fresh

In ffxiv, everything is scripted, so once you figure it out the first time it becomes like watching a movie that requires a button rotation.

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I think there's a lot here that could be discussed. PVP, opposed to PVE, is unscripted. There is a trend that has been set in MMORPG competitors this year like GuildWars2's Expansion and the ElderScrollsOnlineUnlimited that are really taking MMORPG PVP to new levels. Bethedsa's PVP is making that game resurge. (I think their PVP sand-box actually goes back to Age of Conan, that's something AoC wanted to do a decade ago but lacked the technical capabilities to deliver).

We've had a strict raid focused vertical progression model for years now. The predictable and formulaic model is creating fatigue in new content. But it's the model, not the content, that's creating the ad nauseam.

It's frustrating because FFXIV has so many promising features like Gathering/Crafting, PVP, Housing, Hildibrand, Airships, Hunts, Diadem, GCs, FCs, etc etc etc. Despite all these different aspects of Eorzea, character progression in XIV has become too linear.

I think it's time for me to move back to FF11. I appreciate Yoshida and team's effort, I tried to support them as long as I could but I haven't had fun in the past months, there is no point for me. Is it dying? Probably not now, but at least for me, it has.

And if anyone thinks the relic is the whole problem for this sentiment in a lot of people, no it's not. The problem comes from 3.0. I don't know why people think they are complaining solely about the relic weapons grinding. The problem is not the grinding, the problem is HOW they approached it. The problem is that the content they've been releasing is uninteresting, boring and on top of that, tedious (in the case of Alexander Savage, with no middleground in between). FF11 is 10+ years old and it has more interesting content, there wasn't a day that passed where I had nothing fun to do in that game.

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Originally Posted by DemascusW

FFXI hands down no arguing was far superior than ffxiv in terms of content substance in all aspects: raiding end game, story, music only to be beat by graphical content due to ps2 limitations. You didn't have these BS reskins of EVERYTHING(LAZY).

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Maybe reskins of models, but not content, that's for sure. Totally agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

I think there's a lot here that could be discussed. PVP, opposed to PVE, is unscripted.

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I agree, but I think it's possible to at the very least make the fights less scripted. You can make the AI adapt to things the parties like to abuse. Always like tanking the monster near the edge of the arena? The boss can use a move that makes you change positions and it only does it if you stay put. If you move before hand or often enough it'll do a different mechanic. This would involve making a fight. Have teams test play it. See the answers they come up with. Give the boss an answer to that strat. Randomize the TP move choice once in a while from the boss so it's more reactionary than "were on step 5, he will use this move"

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Originally Posted by Magis

Also CoD and Smash are one time purchases. You pay and get X amount of hours out of it. MMO's have to keep you engaged to justify the monthly fee.

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You missed the point completely.

I'm pointing out that it's possible to make content that lasts years. One time payment vs monthly payments should help my argument. We pay SE more money, why is it that ssbm that I bought once is so popular and still played at EVO to this day? While we're paying monthly wondering why we're bored.

I dont think, that this game is near of its death or something. I just think that the developers and community reps dont really listen to the players anymore.

Just logged into the game for fun. Tryign to play (haven't played for a month mind you), did they decrease the eso rewards on every dungeon and roulette? 15 for roulette? I remember it used to give 45 not even a month ago...

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Originally Posted by Riki_Namu

The problem is old players with old accounts you have done everything. People joining this year well they have tons to do still. Sorry buy legacy players dont make up the majority base anymore. There are tons of new players daily that will have ALOT of content to go through.

When you have maxed out every job at 60 then ya I can see why you would be bored. Perhaps its time to move on as you aren't interested anymore. But your disinterest does not speak for everyone else that still enjoys the game for what it is and doesn't hate it for what it isn't. Thats on you.

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Do you even understand what you are saying? So in your opinion the game should not worry about keeping existing customers? It should stay on a business model of play a couple of years and move on?

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

Just logged into the game for fun. Tryign to play (haven't played for a month mind you), did they decrease the eso rewards on every dungeon and roulette? 15 for roulette? I remember it used to give 45 not even a month ago...

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Theres now a level 60 roulette, and a new expert. You must not have unlocked the new expert then, cuz that still gives 75 tomes.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Theres now a level 60 roulette, and a new expert. You must not have unlocked the new expert then, cuz that still gives 75 tomes.

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Probably not considering I haven't done the new story yet.... Oh well. Got bored after 5 minutes of playing and just logged out again.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

I dont think, that this game is near of its death or something. I just think that the developers and community reps dont really listen to the players anymore.

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I don't think it's near it's death either, but when you keep eating French fries when you have high blood pressure you'll eventually die. Just like if you keep giving the same re-hashed content and formula over and over people will eventually get bored and leave. Yes some people aren't bored yet. But you will eventually of it's ALWAYS the same pattern formula.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I don't think it's near it's death either, but when you keep eating French fries when you have high blood pressure you'll eventually die. Just like if you keep giving the same re-hashed content and formula over and over people will eventually get bored and leave. Yes some people aren't bored yet. But you will eventually of it's ALWAYS the same pattern formula.

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Thats a pretty bad analogy since even if you don't have high blood pressure, you will eventually die if you keep eating french fries.

Since you will eventually die no matter what. lol

Nah, the game isn't dying. I'll agree that 3.0 felt a little rushed from an endgame perspective, but I can forgive them for that - they just released a major expansion, and then the entire company went on retreat to celebrate. And they should have, because 2.5, 2.55, and the leveling experience in 3.0 was all amazing. 3.0 dungeons felt a little bit monotonous after about a month, but a lot of that was because it was the only way to effectively progress your character if you weren't raiding, and some of the fights just had annoying mechanics.

But the dungeons in 3.1 are fun, and so is Void Ark (and let's not forget the hilarious awesomeness of the MSQ). The gear is really pretty, and it gives enough more stuff to do to get us through to 3.2 without getting too bored. I haven't done Diadem yet, but it also seems to me like it'll be a pretty fun thing to experience, and a good way to get more loot (not to mention, incredibly lucrative for gathering classes). And the new relic quest looks to compliment all of these activities nicely.

Honestly, I'm enjoying the present and looking forward to the future. FFXIV looks like it's only going to go up from here.