So...about that white magitek mount

Pay to win is something like Ragnarok Online where you had acess to best slotted equips and hats, cards and other and could be BiS +10 in every slot if you had enough money. A mount is NOT pay to win.

Cosmetic items are what you are rewarded with for clearing (winning at) content in the game.

You are buying cosmetic items.

You are paying to win.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Cosmetic items are what you are rewarded with for clearing (winning at) content in the game.
You are buying cosmetic items.
You are paying to win.

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Were these mounts available in game? Are they enhancing my abilities? No. Here's a definition for you about Pay To Win since you're a little confused:

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Because I don't want to support this future that SE is heading towards. SE has already fallen down the slippery slope once with paid content, with All the Bravest. Remember that? That game was received abysmally worldwide and was "pay to do anything at all" while also being pay to play - seeing the results of that game, your whole "club" argument falls extremely flat, because they can be also be used for that game as well.

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I can't argue you with All the Bravest since I didn't play it. The difference between that and this though are night and day. One enhances the game play. The other does not. I still remember Final Fantasy Record Keeper doing quite well. It still has its own pay to win features, but that's completely optional(though it's more akin to pay for extra chances like Fate Grand Order).

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Cash shop debates are nothing more than beating a dead horse and I won't bother, but the fact is, prices in this particular cash shop have gotten progressively more expensive over time because SE knows people are willing to buy them - that doesn't mean they should be becoming more expensive. There's no effort being put into this; these mounts are not content that takes much time to make - look at any game that supports modding and you'll see things that take far more time and effort than a recolor. In fact, the mods, free content that do recolor often retexture entirely, making them look cleaner overall.

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Even I'm aware that some of the stuff is expensive, but it's only a one time thing unless you're a frequent race changer or must have a numerous set of dyes. That's all on you. There's always people going to be willing to buy because it is stuff they want and that they have no qualms with spending money on. I'm not arguing that the mounts took much effort or anything at all.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Also, I don't mind spending $12 on a game, but if I'm going to spend $12, it's going to be on something I can actually play, not something that makes me look pretty for a week before I get bored with it and start using other mounts.

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See, this line of reasoning, I have no problem with. Because you are choosing what to do with your money. That's fine and dandy. But the issue I am seeing is people are annoyed that these mounts(as little effort as it may be) are not available to them. Instead they are cash shop only. So a vocal set are sharing their disappointment because one's value of 12 dollars(or 24) is not the same as someone else's.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Cosmetic items are what you are rewarded with for clearing (winning at) content in the game.

You are buying cosmetic items.

You are paying to win.

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So you mean pay to look more fabulous?

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Snip

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First of all, I appreciate your leniency: quite a big shocker to be honest, for someone like me who had to name change and race change to avoid haters. I had people hating on me for far less!

But to be honest the main issue here isn't about these 2 mounts: they are optional, yes, we know that. I don't care either and I'm sure that if someone wants it they'll buy it.

The problem begins when they'll start putting EVERYTHING on the cash shop: we have mounts and costumes already, which could be easily implemented in-game via events or whatnot. These costumes are nothing major, you're right, but then what happens when they'll start adding things that could potentially make the game pay to win? It will soon become mandatory and not just optional, making this game on par with SWTOR in terms of cash shop exclusive items and I'm sure as "eff" that nobody wants to copy that (even though I do like that game, just not as a f2p)

We have mounts and costumes for now...but then when they'll add exp boosts, special buffs or even a "possible" house on the cash shop, you have nobody to blame but the community: they were fine buying and buying the cash shop items so much, that SE realized this and might make everything be a paywall. It will be a pay-to-win game at this rate: maybe not tomorrow or next year, but at this rate of things and content delivered in the shop they might evemtiaòòu put more vital items such as weapons, armors and even additional customization options.

I mean, here's what they could think at one point:
"Hey, people are buying the mount because it's of a different color and has a barely noticeable music in it? Let's put more of that stuff!!" - "Wait, we could try putting this tiny little armor in the game and see if it sells!" - "WOW IT'S SELLING LIKE HOTCAKES, let's put weapons in it too!" - "Screw it, let's put entire armor sets: people buy anything we throw at them!"

And that's why we are complaining: it's not about the current mounts and items into the cash shop, it's what they could lead in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Here's a definition for you about Pay To Win since you're a little confused:

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Here's the definition of winning in FFXIV:

Getting items, titles, and mounts that make your character look different than other characters.


This is demonstrated in:

raids
minigames
dungeons
achievements
and by PAYING FOR IT.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Made up stuffs

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Disregarding the universal definition of Pay to Win to stick in your own definition of it for a particular game. Well done. Surprise! My definition of winning isn't the same in XIV.

Well if that's what he thinks, then there's no point in continuing the debate anymore, is there?

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

First of all, I appreciate your leniency: quite a big shocker to be honest, for someone like me who had to name change and race change to avoid haters. I had people hating on me for far less!

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I'm sorry you've dealt with that. Was this on Balmung? I'm looking to server transfer from Siren to either Balmung or Famfrit and if it's going to be Moon Guard-esque jerkery on Balmung, I'll head to Famfrit instead.

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The problem begins when they'll start putting EVERYTHING on the cash shop: we have mounts and costumes already, which could be easily implemented in-game via events or whatnot. These costumes are nothing major, you're right, but then what happens when they'll start adding things that could potentially make the game pay to win? It will soon become mandatory and not just optional, making this game on par with SWTOR in terms of cash shop exclusive items and I'm sure as "eff" that nobody wants to copy that (even though I do like that game, just not as a f2p)

We have mounts and costumes for now...but then when they'll add exp boosts, special buffs or even a "possible" house on the cash shop, you have nobody to blame but the community: they were fine buying and buying the cash shop items so much, that SE realized this and might make everything be a paywall. It will be a pay-to-win game at this rate: maybe not tomorrow or next year, but at this rate of things and content delivered in the shop they might evemtiaòòu put more vital items such as weapons, armors and even additional customization options.

I mean, here's what they could think at one point:
"Hey, people are buying the mount because it's of a different color and has a barely noticeable music in it? Let's put more of that stuff!!" - "Wait, we could try putting this tiny little armor in the game and see if it sells!" - "WOW IT'S SELLING LIKE HOTCAKES, let's put weapons in it too!" - "Screw it, let's put entire armor sets: people buy anything we throw at them!"

And that's why we are complaining: it's not about the current mounts and items into the cash shop, it's what they could lead in the long run.

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Completely valid concern. Right now all we have to go on is Yoshi's own stance on this and that is that anything that impacts stats or gives you a leg up in any way in content is a no-go. He said no pay to win and until SE does something that violates that I'm going to trust that they'll stick with it. I know the house isn't pay to win either, but that would be a line crossed for most of us I think and I like to believe that SE knows that as well.

Has SE been fibby (looking at you personal housing statement from Yoshi) in the past? YUP! And I completely understand the suspicion. Me personally, I'm trusting them on this until they overstep the line in my head.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Just want to pop in to say that the red and white Magitek mounts are the most hilarious status symbols I've ever seen. You are literally riding around on a mount you spent 20$ on that everyone else in the game got for free, but in a different color. All this shows is that you have no idea what you're doing with your money and will literally buy anything SE shells out. I hope it was worth it.

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Well...when you have money you can do that... *sips tea while rides his Red Baron*

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Here's the definition of winning in FFXIV:

Getting items, titles, and mounts that make your character look different than other characters.


This is demonstrated in:

raids
minigames
dungeons
achievements
and by PAYING FOR IT.

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That's pretty subjective since only few people got that definition of winning. For me is, definition of winning right now is making all HQ Crafter AF2 with my own hand
Also clear KOR immediately since I only can do it until KOR 5 gdi.

Here I am!


http://i.imgur.com/GItD0ef.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/n8RE97d.png?1

And yes, it was SO WORTH IT.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

I'm sorry you've dealt with that. Was this on Balmung? I'm looking to server transfer from Siren to either Balmung or Famfrit and if it's going to be Moon Guard-esque jerkery on Balmung, I'll head to Famfrit instead.

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I just wanted to answer this: yes it was. I'm using an alternate character for the forums to avoid backlash in game (I hadn't got any right now, but a friend of mine was constantly bashed for his thread about the MSQ lock for HW, so I'm being double careful myself). Honestly, I don't want to be the one to tell you that it's bad: I recommend putting a thread on the forum and get legitimate answers. The last thing I want is my opinion to sway potential lovers of Roleplay because -I- had a bad experience. Don't take my opinion for granted: I recommend asking yourself to the forums.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

I just wanted to answer this: yes it was. I'm using an alternate character for the forums to avoid backlash in game (I hadn't got any right now, but a friend of mine was constantly bashed for his thread about the MSQ lock for HW, so I'm being double careful myself). Honestly, I don't want to be the one to tell you that it's bad: I recommend putting a thread on the forum and get legitimate answers. The last thing I want is my opinion to sway potential lovers of Roleplay because -I- had a bad experience. Don't take my opinion for granted: I recommend asking yourself to the forums.

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I appreciate the response. I'll make an alt there during an opening and see how that goes. Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

Well...when you have money you can do that... *sips tea while rides his Red Baron*

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I have superfluous money just like anyone else, I don't spend excess amounts of it on recolors of things I already have. Call me crazy.

Also my post got deleted so I guess that shows how badly everyone wants to justify their purchase. Praise be.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I have superfluous money just like anyone else, I don't spend excess amounts of it on recolors of things I already have. Call me crazy.

Also my post got deleted so I guess that shows how badly everyone wants to justify their purchase. Praise be.

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point is, we shouldn't have to "justify" our purchase any more than you need to justify your decision to NOT purchase. Live and let live, there's seriously no reason for anti-cash shop people (or even just people that hate these 2 new or recolor, whatever) mounts to have any opinion what so ever of those of us that do like them, value is in the beholder, what's "worth it" to me, may not be to you, and vice versa

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Sleipnir should have dropped off of Odin. These should have been obtainable in-game. Cash shops are the ultimate casual garbage. "I don't want to actually play the game to get stuff, I just want it mailed to me."

Here's a quick list of possible places they could have put these reskins:

Achievement: Help 50 players get their first clear of Castrum Meridianum
Drop: Minstrel's Ballad: Castrum Meridianum
A new quest line
Crafting
Free Company crafting
Just make the regular magitek mount dye-able like Chocobos.


I don't even want the mounts, but there's a clear flow of things in MMORPGs. Subscription->Content->Rewards. This skips the content, which is what you're actually supposed to be paying for.

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I agree 100%

A lot of mounts that you can get in the game...and people are upset about a mount that's a different color of a mount that you already have in the game..this forum.

At the end of the day I'd never choose it over my Draft Chocobo.

It is OPTIONAL let it to rest and move on......

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Originally Posted by Mature

It is OPTIONAL let it to rest and move on......

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This is a game, literally everything in it and the game itself is optional

agreed w op. i'm broke af irl and like having things to do in-game. i'm not alone in this, i think?

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Originally Posted by Colorful

This is a game, literally everything in it and the game itself is optional

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Is there a better counter argument than that or is everyone just going to go "No u"?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Is there a better counter argument than that or is everyone just going to go "No u"?

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An argument to people screaming that it's optional? Yep, citing other MMOs that have went down the same route, the same group of people claimed it was only optional stuff and that the majority was still in the game, and that changed fast. Of course when you say they retort with "But that's a slippery slope, you have no evidence of that", of course I don't, that doesn't invalidate the argument. There's a difference between a reasonable slippery slope and an absurd one, which would be on the lines of:

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FFXIV IS GOING TO MAKE RAIDS NOTHING BUT A WHITE ROOM AND YOU HAVE TO BUY THE MODELS AND TEXTURES FROM THE MOGSTATION

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Businesses are out to make money, they're going to keep pushing it until they keep making money and the community will adapt and be fine with it. Level boost first introduced to WoW it was an outrage, now? It's fine. Mounts? It was fine, only a few mounts right? Now, most mounts in game are a literal reskin (not even adding extra armour in some cases). Hell, this slippery slope is already in effect with FFXIV. First it was Fantasias, "every MMO does it, there's no problem, it's cheaper than other MMOs" (I agree there), then old event items "Hey, it's better than them never coming back", even though they have come back before, then Sleipnir. No one was happy with that, even the Japanese players, some of them got salty to the point that stating someone important on the development team resembled a frog's testicle sack. The English players though? "It's only optional", let's move forward a few months, now we have NPC clothing and then even a patch later, two mounts. The icing on the cake is that they're not even account wide, like WoW would do it. Mog Station updates are becoming more and more frequent.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

This is a game, literally everything in it and the game itself is optional

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If the item was part of the story mode and it REQUIRES YOU to buy in order to finish the game will you still say it's an optional thing? Clearly not. You already paying for the sub why will you need to pay again?

The magitek is just a cosmetic thing as well as everything else in the cash shop making it OPTIONAL. In other words , no needed.

This should be locked as this cash shop business has been talked about over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Businesses are out to make money, they're going to keep pushing it until they keep making money and the community will adapt and be fine with it. Level boost first introduced to WoW it was an outrage, now? It's fine. Mounts? It was fine, only a few mounts right? Now, most mounts in game are a literal reskin (not even adding extra armour in some cases). Hell, this slippery slope is already in effect with FFXIV. First it was Fantasias, "every MMO does it, there's no problem, it's cheaper than other MMOs" (I agree there), then old event items

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Fear-mongering: the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.

SE has stated quite specifically their desire to keep Mogstation items limited to glamour and things that won't affect gameplay. Until they actually put something on there that affects gameplay, this is all just hot air, trying to make a bad guy when there aren't actually any present.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Fear-mongering: the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.

SE has stated quite specifically their desire to keep Mogstation items limited to glamour and things that won't affect gameplay. Until they actually put something on there that affects gameplay, this is all just hot air, trying to make a bad guy when there aren't actually any present.

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I'm well aware that they don't intend to do that, it would be intentionally offing their own game. Maybe when it's dying and they want to milk it for all its worth, but they'd have gone F2P by then regardless. The point is, glamour is a very big deal in this game. What does this game have going for it, interesting fights? Right, 5-6 fights every 8 months. Why do people run Void Ark 20 times a day? For the gear, what value does the Void Ark gear have? Glamour, that's it, it's entirely worthless due to uncapped Diadem now. A huge part of why quite a lot of people I play is glamour, mount collecting, minion collecting, and so on. As it stands, the cash shop doesn't cut into that too badly, my argument is that they very well might pull a Blizzard and do that, they've gotten more and more frequent with cash shop updates and that's what leads me to believe that.

PS. Could any form of petition of a very real issue not be considering fear mongering? I hate to compare it to real world issues, but I'll do so anyway. Net Neutrality is a big thing was/is a rather large issue, people were spreading the potential issues ("fearmongering", as you put it) of it changing to a more closed system, and that caused hundreds of thousands to voice their dislike for the system and get it stopped even though it seems to be pop up again every few months. Should we shut up and accept it because we're creating fear? No, it's reasonable to fear such a system because of it's potential, previously proven examples.

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Originally Posted by Mature

If the item was part of the story mode and it REQUIRES YOU to buy in order to finish the game will you still say it's an optional thing? Clearly not. You already paying for the sub why will you need to pay again?

The magitek is just a cosmetic thing as well as everything else in the cash shop making it OPTIONAL. In other words , no needed.

This should be locked as this cash shop business has been talked about over and over again.

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Okay, sure it's optional, but how is that an argument against it? If they decided "You know what, no more craftable glamour sets or Gold Saucer rewards, we'll throw them on the Mog Station instead" would you be fine with that, because it's "optional" in the end, isn't it? I know they won't do something as stupid as that (or I'd hope not anyway), but according to your argument it's optional and we should shut up and accept it.

Glamour is big for some people, sure. I guess I'm just your average guy that doesn't particular care about stuff like that, so maybe that's why I feel the way I do. I look at the mogstation and don't see anything that's worth spending real money on.

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PS. Could any form of petition of a very real issue not be considering fear mongering? I hate to compare it to real world issues, but I'll do so anyway. Net Neutrality is a big thing was/is a rather large issue, people were spreading the potential issues ("fearmongering", as you put it) of it changing to a more closed system, and that caused hundreds of thousands to voice their dislike for the system and get it stopped even though it seems to be pop up again every few months. Should we shut up and accept it because we're creating fear? No, it's reasonable to fear such a system because of it's potential, previously proven examples.

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I don't know much about the context of this particular issue, but yes by definition that could be considered fear-mongering. I think an important distinction to make is who is involved. EA has certainly went to town with cash shops, they wouldn't have any problem charging us $15 to boost to level 60. I haven't played many Blizzard games but I'll assume they did too based on the discussions. Are there any Square Enix games that offer that (excluding mobile)? I'm genuinely not sure, I haven't played every SE game. I do know that no other Final Fantasy game has offered those kind of shortcuts though. So, precedent is a big part of determining whether there should be legitimate concern or whether it should just be viewed as a fear tactic to get people worried about something that is less likely to happen. Fear-mongering was maybe too strong of a word to use, but that's just what comes to mind when I see people claiming things that (at least as far as I can tell) will probably never happen.

One would think they make a decent amount off of fantasias and even the dyes, now. It all adds up.

The NPC outfits were silly as hell and I don't see much of a point to the mounts though but hey

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...cvhvo1_500.gif

The way I see it, things like mounts and glamour items are not necessary for the game to feel "complete". Some people want these items, and that's why they're perfect for something like a cash shop. They are ancillary items added to the whole of FFXIV.

I don't see how things like Fantasia can be controversial either. That kinda stuff is all additional and, if people will pay for it, of course Squeenix is gonna charge for it. I don't know why people would even get mad at WoW offering things like quick 100 rank-ups either. You can still level the regular way, and it's not forcing you to pay to get to that level. Look at this stuff like bonuses that cost money, which is what they are, instead of things ripped from the game that should be free.

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Originally Posted by GTANJ

I don't know why people would even get mad at WoW offering things like quick 100 rank-ups either. You can still level the regular way, and it's not forcing you to pay to get to that level.

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I can understand being upset with paying for levels, or in something like Battlefield being able to buy all the guns without ranking up and unlocking. Sure, you don't have to buy them, but it puts you below the playing field if you don't. It's sort of like a peer pressure. It probably wouldn't be so bad in a mainly cooperative type game like this, but certainly a competitive multiplayer game there is a decent advantage in higher tier weapons/perks/etc. So I sort of agree with that disdain, and I don't play any Battlefield or EA sports games as a result.

Most of the stuff in the mog station I'm fine with skipping. But there are a few things I missed that I wanted. I plunked down $3 for the Cherry Blossom earrings, on the justification that they were very pretty and I've spent a ten times that amount on real life earrings I rarely wear.

I have no burning desire for a red or white magitek. If they were in-game items, I wouldn't even bother farming for them.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I can understand being upset with paying for levels, or in something like Battlefield being able to buy all the guns without ranking up and unlocking. Sure, you don't have to buy them, but it puts you way below the playing field if you don't. It's sort of like a peer pressure. It probably wouldn't be so bad in a mainly cooperative type game like this, but certainly a competitive multiplayer game there is a decent advantage in higher tier weapons/perks/etc. So I sort of agree with that disdain, and I don't play any Battlefield or EA sports games as a result.

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But that kind of content inherently changes the game for you if you don't own it. None of the stuff on the mogstation inherently changes the game if you don't own it. It's all cosmetic and you can live without it. Some people argue that because they want it, it should be free, but that's not the way this stuff works.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

An argument to people screaming that it's optional? Yep, citing other MMOs that have went down the same route, the same group of people claimed it was only optional stuff and that the majority was still in the game, and that changed fast.

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The few subscription-required MMOs that I know that have gone down the same route with a cash shop (it's not a long list after all) haven't changed from having the majority still be in-game.

Those that shifted the lion's share of stuff to optional purchases via cash shop are pretty much all games that also shifted to a F2P model, wherein the cash shop becomes the main source of revenue instead of subscriptions.

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Now, most mounts in game are a literal reskin (not even adding extra armour in some cases).

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That's not exactly a new thing. Even as far back as The Burning Crusade most mounts added were reskins of a select set. Netherwings were just reskinned drake models and most options were simple recolors. On occasion they have made greater variations and the occasional unique model (usually attached to a raid boss - something they are still doing with the current one for killing Heroic or Mythic Archimonde), but since 2004 most in-game available mounts have been reskins of a specific set of the already available mounts. The only store-bought mount that I can think of that doesn't already have an equivalent version in the game (with reskins of it also available from various sources in the game) is the armored bat mount.

So yeah...WoW doing more reskins than new mounts is almost a decade old at this point.

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

point is, we shouldn't have to "justify" our purchase any more than you need to justify your decision to NOT purchase. Live and let live, there's seriously no reason for anti-cash shop people (or even just people that hate these 2 new(or recolor, whatever) mounts to have any opinion what so ever of those of us that do like them, value is in the beholder, what's "worth it" to me, may not be to you, and vice versa

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Stop it! You're making sense on the forums!!
What will entertain me?? Don't you know what these places are for??!!!

And you never closed that first bracket! It just goes on forever!! When will someone think of the children??! AhhhhhhhhHHHHHH!!!!!

:D

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Originally Posted by Berethos

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I'm aware that WoW is very reskin happy (along with FFXIV and its recolours of the unicorn mount), the majority were reskins yes, but there were a few new models here and there which would eventually be re skinned. Now just about every unique mount that isn't a boar or a wolf is placed in the cash shop, the Siege of Orgrimmar raid mount is a Kor'kron Annihilator. The moose mount from Mythic Archimonde was also intended to be a cash shop mount, but it was changed after much outburst (at least they listen). If you don't mind me asking, what are the equivalents of the Winged Guardian, Enchanted Fey Dragon, Swift Windsteed, Grinning Reaver, and the Warforged Nightmare?

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

Stop it! You're making sense on the forums!!
What will entertain me?? Don't you know what these places are for??!!!

And you never closed that first bracket! It just goes on forever!! When will someone think of the children??! AhhhhhhhhHHHHHH!!!!!

:D

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oh, I did close it, I just seem to have accidentally added an extra ( oops... =p

I find it funny how they seem to have no money to hire devs, but put more and more half assed or already developed items into the cash shop. I think the issues people REALLY have is that the game doesn't have a very good wealth of content that is worth doing. FFXI for all it's faults (It had a great many) had just as many strengths. One of those was the fact that you had multiple ways of progressing AND could mix and match. The game really lost most of it's player base when everything kept getting out item leveled to a point that stuff became like this game. Relic? Gone. Mythic? Gone. Empy? Gone. Unless you wanted to put in UNGODLY amounts of hours in between fairly short patches OR spend ungodly amount of gil. And then have it totally killed again. So again, this game has a fair amount of content (Less than most games but it's not that bad). But most of it is irrelavent except for roulettes. So pushing cash shop stuff like this is what really seems to set people off. WoW did the cash shop stuff with almost no outcry(there was some) because when they implemented it it had a good pace of content coming out and LOTS to do now. Release WoD which has a little more content than this game currently and you see them release mounts for cash store only? Yeah that's where the outcry comes from.

On the fact of level boosting not being a bad thing? I can only ask if you are trolling. The problem with level boosting is you have NO idea what you're doing. Maybe if you level boosted and had to walk through "baby's first tutorial- how not to screw up your class" it would be fine. People in WoW didn't just "Accept" it. They just gave up and lost half their subs. I take it you want people to give up and accept the state of FFXIV the way that people did for WoW?(Although WoW had FAR more old content people could go through and have fun and with leveling up new characters doing quests and seeing how things changed were a benefit. Here after you story quest you're litereally stuck in the fate/dungeon grind when you run out of quests. Oh and leves.).

I believe the reason that people are pissed about this is 1) They're using assets that are mostly in game to make cash grabs when no real money is being put back into this game or content added that is relevant. Making cash shop expansions like this is what hurts if nothing else game image. That = bad. Cash shops for minor things = ok. But only if you have a game that is worth it. And considering how many emptyish servers there are and how poor the CS is with this game and in general at square. Also the fact that ya know, after the initial 2.0 story line it seems like they started reading the scripts for the other FF games(The good ones, not XIII) with a TVtropes page open. So now we have not Kain mind controlled (Oh hey. Like that's never been a main problem with dragoons. Hi Kain. But at least you were awesome enough for me to love ya anyhow) and the garbage that was Ramuh/Leviathan. Shiva was average at best and most of Heavensward was below even Tera's expansions writing, and I regret being dragged back here. But sure. Support the cash shop. Buy stuff when they can't be bothered to maintain the game correctly, fix massive in game lag for comcast users or provide content at the pace they said they would (3 months). I mean, it's not like they've gone against their word many times right?

Oh and if you're looking for non mobile games with money transactions Bravely Default had one where you bought extra turns lol. That was funny. I laughed thinking about the stupid parents who put their card info into their kid's 3ds and didn't watch it like a hawk.

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Originally Posted by Chayala

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Your whole argument seems to be "they are putting low effort into the things they put onto the cash shop, which is bad." Isn't that a good thing? Don't we want them to not put as much time and effort into the cash shop and focus on actual game improvements? I don't understand that argument at all.

Also, WoW DID have a tutorial for people who used a level boost. You weren't just dumped into the game with no idea what to do or how to do anything. There was a pretty extensive tutorial that taught people how to play their class. You should do more research into that before just spreading misinformation. Also, it's kind of a moot point, since FFXIV doesn't have level boosts, so who even cares?