Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

This is the only reply you will get from me in this topic. I understand perfectly that the Internet is full of jerks. Interesting that you just default to insulting someone in your reply. What was that about the Internet and jerks again?

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That's the 2nd reply I have received from you, please be consistent.

I am sorry if being frank with you is offensive. I did not belittle you. I did not call you a name. I did not call you a bad player. I simply stated a fact that you are defending a second class system that has inflicted console players.

Try again hun, accusing me of being condescending would have worked much better.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

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You can cite any decent evidence and it will make no difference. You're arguing with people who use logic such as "cars can hurt people so ban cars." Most of us know that from a practical point of view, people who would be jerks with parsers are still jerks without parsers. The rest of the people who use parsers probably don't care about what random joe schmoe is doing in x, y, or z content.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

The problem of 'just leave it to the GMs' is how many GMs do you think we have? The GMs have to deal with alot more than just calls on harassment, which are probably alot of calls ranging from chat harassment to abuses of the /vote systems. There's the thousands of RMT reports, bot reports, bug assistance. They are busy people and often deal with issues as they get them, meaning your harassment report could take hours to resolve. By that time you've done moved on and likely only remember the other person's name because you wrote it down. Assuming you did write it down. Making your defense of potential harassment from parsers, "Leave it to the GMs." is incredibly shallow. We, as a community, need to make such potential harassment a sticking point of any parser use and actively try to keep the abuse to a minimum.

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We already have a community who is very strict and fast to report any mention of parsers in-game. Why would this zealous outlook disappear overnight if parsers were condoned? We would still have a community ready to report anybody for anything. You really think that there would be a flood of parser abuse if SE explicitly stated such behavior was a banable offense? I really don't think we have anything to worry about when you see how the "don't ask don't tell" policy of parsers has worked out so far.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

Except that it isn't as it's been brought up and disproven in literally every single thread that this debate has taken place in.

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No, it really hasn't been 'disproven' at all. You might like for it to be 'disproven' as it's convenient for your position to create that impression. You might feel that in your opinion the fear of harassment has somehow been 'disproven' in any or all of those topics, but that's your subjective point of view on the matter, not fact.

The point about fear of harassment is that it's a subjective emotion that some players feel. There is nothing to disprove about that, it's a simple fact that people can feel an emotion such as fear of harassment. It doesn't matter if it's rational in your opinion, or not. It doesn't matter if the incidence of actual harassment is low, the fact is that it does happen. If players fear that, you can downplay it all you like, but you can't 'disprove' it.

Downplaying that fear is nothing more than a tactic in support of your position on the use of parsers.

The potential for harassment enabled by having text chat in game is too large, please remove it.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

The potential for harassment enabled by having text chat in game is too large, please remove it.

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Heh, they did that on the console version of ESO. Voice chat only I believe, which I've found to be a tad more toxix in quite a few games.

I don't understand this safe space mentality. If someone belittles your dps, why not just improve? I think it's pathetic when people do ridicule players, rather than help out in PUGs, but shit talk happens all the time in the end game community. It just motivates us to perform better and beat their dps or clear times on fflogs. You don't need a parser to be an ass. More people are asses to newer players who fail mechanics than experienced players who can do mechanics but are just lower on dps. Maybe we should just ban the UI so no one can see when other people die.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

The potential for harassment enabled by having text chat in game is too large, please remove it.

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Funnily enough, you can opt out of chat. Either configure your filter to not display anything, shrink/hide the window or blacklist everyone you see. If you're on PC, you can probably remove it entirely via an addOn (Inb4 PS4 users complain about being disadvantaged!)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

No, it really hasn't been 'disproven' at all. You might like for it to be 'disproven' as it's convenient for your position to create that impression. You might feel that in your opinion the fear of harassment has somehow been 'disproven' in any or all of those topics, but that's your subjective point of view on the matter, not fact.

The point about fear of harassment is that it's a subjective emotion that some players feel. There is nothing to disprove about that, it's a simple fact that people can feel an emotion such as fear of harassment. It doesn't matter if it's rational in your opinion, or not. It doesn't matter if the incidence of actual harassment is low, the fact is that it does happen. If players fear that, you can downplay it all you like, but you can't 'disprove' it.

Downplaying that fear is nothing more than a tactic in support of your position on the use of parsers.

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No offense but that reasoning is starting to border on what could be called a "Safe space argument" and I don't say that to belittle or insult you.

In my post I specifically said that this is what we know based on large sample sizes or rather the majority of players, in both this and other MMOs.

Will a few players get caught in the crossfire once or twice or have a bad day / experience once and a while? Sure, hence why i said that's what the GM staff is for to take care of those outliers.

So let me rephrase this.

We know for a fact that a larger number of players players will benefit from the addition of a public parsing tool than the number of players who will encounter issues of harassment due to one, we also know that an even larger number of players won't care either way.

You will never be able however to dissuade the fear of every single individual player just like you can't collectively tell every single person to stop being afraid of spiders or boogeymen or w/e on a person to person basis.

let me also state that as a PC player I'm already playing on the platform that has access to a public parsing tool should i wish to acquire one So i have no personal stake or agenda in this, it doesn't make anything "convenient" for me in the slightest as I'm advocating for an equal playing field for a console I don't even own.

If you recall this thread is specifically asking for a parsing/feedback tool or ability for the playerbase that doesn't play on PC, namely the Ps3/Ps4 users.

Is there a legitimate reason that an entire paying portion of the playerbase should have to act like a lower class by asking a PC player to parse their performance for any tangible feedback in order to spare the feelings of a small number of players that out of the rest of the playerbase feel threatened by public parser use?

Personally i can't think of one, and i think it's rather insulting to the console players to say "Sorry you guys cant have it because it would hurt some feelings" or "You guys don't really NEED it to play the game" or "Just get better and learn how to play without one!!!!!'

It just doesn't sit well with me.

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Originally Posted by zosia

You can cite any decent evidence and it will make no difference. Your arguing with people who use logic such as "cars can hurt people so ban cars." Most of us know that from a practical point of view, people who would be jerks with parsers are still jerks without parsers. The rest of the people who use parsers probably don't care about what random joe schmoe is doing in x, y, or z content.

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Doesn't mean i shouldn't try.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Because for every person who calmly, politely and helpfully informs someone of their low DPS and seeks to actively assist them in improving...

There are 1000 idiots who scream, throw tantrums, vote kick, vote abandon, verbally abuse, refuse access to groups or generally misuse the information presented.

Given how people behave now with perceived low DPS, ill leave it to your imagination what those people would do with hard numbers that they could cram down their victims throat.

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Because for every person who wishes to genuinely take on advice and improve themselves much like the OP...

There are 1000 idiots who scream, throw tantrums, vote kick, vote abandon, verbally abuse if even so much as a single syllable of critique is thrown their way.

Given how people behave now with perceived low DPS, ill leave it to your imagination what those people would do with hard numbers that people can use as evidence against them.

I really wish people would stop thinking this is a one way argument. Users with parsers are not the only ones capable of being assholes.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Heh, they did that on the console version of ESO I believe. Voice chat only I believe, which I've found to be a tad more toxix in quite a few games.

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For sure it would be just as bad. And my joking post aside, you can turn off chat (by way of filters). We are given the tools to craft the online experience we want, it just takes initiative to go out there and make it what you will. The reason we can't have nice things isn't the harassers, it's the players like Kosmos who seem content to let others dictate their community rather than take charge of their own in game experiences.

It's a mindset thing though, so if what I say doesn't make sense, it means that person don't have the right mindset and will always be under attack by people ruining their game.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Funnily enough, you can opt out of chat. Either configure your filter to not display anything, shrink/hide the window or blacklist everyone you see. If you're on PC, you can probably remove it entirely via an addOn (Inb4 PS4 users complain about being disadvantaged!)

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Yup I have an FC member who does this so they can focus etc. Not for harassment reasons just to remove distractions.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

There are 1000 idiots who scream, throw tantrums, vote kick, vote abandon, verbally abuse if even so much as a single syllable of critique is thrown their way.

Given how people behave now with perceived low DPS, ill leave it to your imagination what those people would do with hard numbers that people can use as evidence against them.

I really wish people would stop thinking this is a one way argument. Users with parsers are not the only ones capable of being assholes.

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The issue has nothing to do with parsers at all. People are already being harassed as it is with NO official parsers. A personal damage meter would change nothing in that and it wouldn't affect you at all what so ever. Lets be real here, everyone CAN ALREADY see your dps as it is thru battle log. The only thing a parser does is make a persons personal damage number available to them. No one else would see the numbers at all. Part of what you say exists in mass because a large portion of the player base cannot access the tools to better themselves and the ones who do have access to the tools can utilize that to their advantage.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

Because for every person who wishes to genuinely take on advice and improve themselves much like the OP...There are 1000 idiots who scream, throw tantrums, vote kick, vote abandon, verbally abuse if even so much as a single syllable of critique is thrown their way.

Given how people behave now with perceived low DPS, ill leave it to your imagination what those people would do with hard numbers that people can use as evidence against them.

I really wish people would stop thinking this is a one way argument. Users with parsers are not the only ones capable of being assholes.

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I am I playing a different game than you? The only place I see that behavior is in the 24-man series and those have always been extremely toxic from LotA to now.


There are plenty of tools to deal with the problems you cite.

Black list,
Report to a GM,
Close Party Chat,
Play with like minded people,

There is no real good work around for ps3 and ps4 players to parse themselves.

And lets be straight here because the people that seem to do the most harassing are the ones who don't want them. Look at the beginning of this post. Some people were fine, some expressed opinion, but then all of a sudden comes a few folks who want to call names for no reason while trying to act like they are "curbing harassment" in the progress. Saying that "for every person that improves themselves there will be 10 who harass" is literal hyperbole. It holds no weight.

I like how some of you guys are painting the pro-parser crowd as rabid dogs who only want parsers to gloat, belittle others, and point fingers, because from my experience, it's often the player who is underperforming the most who will go off and be the first to lash out at anyone else in the party when something goes wrong, all while safely hiding through a DPS job except from the players that know their numbers.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

no offence, one person isn't a make or break. If ur doing Alex savage in a Pf group instead of with players you know/been playing with for a while thats your own fault. And communication should be forfront, not numbers. The correct way to go about it is leave and communicate see where the issue lies. parser doesn't tell you the issue just the numbers. This is what pro parser ppl don't get, they are quick to kick instead of handling the situation.
So PuGing Alex by PF due to recently leaving my static due to my new work schedule and having one player in the team who isn't doing what they should is...my fault? Whatever you may have been told, if 7 players are not strong enough to pick up the slack of an underperforming player, then yes, that is the one player's fault, and one person CAN make or break a team in instances like these.

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We are all aware that communication matters, and I find it funny that you direct that towards raiders because people doing current raid content are the ones who communicate the most due to the level of coordination required to complete these fights, but in instances where mechanics are already being performed correctly, and DPS checks are not being met, then yes, seeing numbers helps with this because you get a better idea of the group-wide damage you will need in order to move forward. If my numbers are lower than everyone else's, I'll think to myself, "ok, I gotta step things up, I'll see what I'm doing and how I can correct it, or ask someone else that plays my job for advice, because I feel like I have a correct grasp on my rotation, yet I am not doing things properly." See how that helps? Parse numbers can make you realize such things, and it is then up to you, to correct them. No parsers basically leads to "we keep wiping at the same DPS check but we don't know who needs to improve because we can't see how much damage we're doing. What do?"

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

The correct way to go about this type of content is first play with people you know, master each bit of the content then worry about dmg. After that communicate with your team before and after each fight to see how as a group can improve.

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I wasn't aware that there was one correct way of tackling content. How much raiding have you done in this game when the fight is still relevant? I normally wouldn't ask this, but since you're insistent on teaching us the correct way to handle these fights, you must have a good amount of experience with them, no?

I don't have seven other friends who can clear clear challenging content online at all times, so I'll make a PF and find some other players. You joining a PF does not absolve you of responsibility., and does not make it my fault if we can't clear simply because one person can't carry their weight. Also, you can't really master content without DPS because may fights require a certain group DPS output before moving on to the next phase. How can you get more practice in Thordan EX in phase5+ if your group does not have the necessary DPS to move past meteors? You can't say "oh, we'll worry about numbers later" when that is the sole thing preventing you from moving forward in a fight. Again, you're being misinformed and spreading false information. High DPS is not a luxury, but often a requirement in many current endgame fights.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ odett and sorry dude people like you are heavily misguided on how to act and do any form of content with the "kick the <supposed> low dps person" The fact you encourage that behavior is just mind boggling. And that is the type of mindset i'm tired of seeing. The japanese players (most are ps3/ps4) have little to no issue beating this content w/o a parser, same for ff11 (which was out for a year as ps2 only in japan mind you). There is more to content that 1 person dps, and that is teamwork and communication, which from my experience what Na players lack, outside insulting each other over arbitrary numbers on a tv/computer screen.

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Again, one person does have the power to make or break a team. You keep denying this and provide no argument that holds ground other than "no it's not" or saying it's somehow my fault for finding someone in PF. If one person is not carrying their weight, and they refuse to improve, what other option would you suggest other than letting them go? They are getting in the way of a clear, there is nothing that can be done about that.

I heard that Japanese players often do their homework before joining fights so you know, that's a little extra thing that separates them from most NA players. Also, if you think that top-end JP raiding groups like Lucrezia don't use parsers, you're lying to yourself.

Here is a quick question to those wanting parsers. If SE added parsers into the game but made it a policy that you cannot talk about your's or others damage, Cannot kick out of parties, make damage as a requirement for parties, etc. Basically the same policy now but with parser's in the game. So that person doing 500dps cannot yet be kicked. Would you all think that to be fine? I am gambling to say that you probably would not be happy with that policy either.

Most people say they want parsers to help improve, yet many just want them to police other people. To me a personal parser is just fine, as long as, we keep the same policy in effect as we do today.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

Here is a quick question to those wanting parsers. If SE added parsers into the game but made it a policy that you cannot talk about your's or others damage, Cannot kick out of parties, make damage as a requirement for parties, etc. Basically the same policy now but with parser's in the game. So that person doing 500dps cannot yet be kicked. Would you all think that to be fine? I am gambling to say that you probably would not be happy with that policy either.

Most people say they want parsers to help improve, yet many just want them to police other people. To me a personal parser is just fine, as long as, we keep the same policy in effect as we do today.

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I get what you're trying to say I just don't see how this prevents players from kicking someone for any number of other reasons like they already do now, nor do i see how asking for specific DPS numbers is any different than players setting extremely high ilvls in the PF for content that is easily clearable with proper mechanics execution.

To answer the question I personally wouldn't care.

The reality is that if someone wants you out of a party there are plenty of other reasons they can cite to do so including "difference in playstyle" according to the official statement.

So if what you're really trying to say is would we be okay with a personal only parser?

I mean it isn't in SE's best interest to add a feature to the game that is inferior to one added by a third party program, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

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Of course people wouldn't be happy with the inability to kick someone due to performing poorly. Tell me, would you be happy if SE removed the kick option entirely? That's right, those who AFK at the start of a dungeon can do so without fear of a kick, those ice mages can ice all they want without a kick, that poorly performing DPS that's doing barely half of your DPS can now berate you without getting kicked. Would you be happy with that?

Southpark has actually dealt with the general idea behind the people that feel negatively towards parsers, at length, recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

See you guys in whataver comes after the 10 day vacation.

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

Southpark has actually dealt with the general idea behind the people that feel negatively towards parsers, at length, recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

See you guys in whataver comes after the 10 day vacation.

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My finger broke off my hand from clicking the like button so much!

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Originally Posted by Ryel

nor do i see how asking for specific DPS numbers is any different than players setting extremely high ilvls in the PF for content that is easily clearable with proper mechanics execution.

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The high Ilvl requirements are probably to even out the non proper mechanic handling / ppl eating avaoidbale damage which may kill them with lower Ilvl gear. Atlast that's what I think about it. Can be wrong though I use the duty finder way more than the party finder.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Funny thing is, turrets and summons have their own enmity. That's nice chunk of enmity missing.

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That's pretty interesting gotta keep that in mind for the future thank you for sharing that information. :D

@ odett

You're twisting my words around and proving to have a poor attitude.

First off, if a player has a poor attitude feel free to kick them, but that goes for low or top dps.

What I'm trying to say is just kicking someone out simply due to low dps, regardless of attitude, then use the "its your fault" as a scapegoat for wipes. When it may not be the low dps person, but someone who mis steped a mechanic. Thats the attitrude i hate that came from parsing. As dps comes from a number of factors, like gear. A major factor in dps though is experience with content. Someone with more practice with the content is going tpo have a high dps, due to them knowing when to push and when to pull back

If players are getting kicked out simply over low dps (again regardless of attitude) then they can't learn or get more experience with the content.

As i keep saying, i'm neither for or against parsers. I just don't think they are the end all be all of being a great player, which is what I'm trying to convey. Which is what pro-parser players feel, they NEED a parser to prove their a good player.


I also dislike that people have a difference in opinion and play style and pro-parser use buzz words like "misguided" or buzz phrases like "well what about ice mages etc", to shoot them down. Or taunting them saying they are a bad player. This is stuff i hate, again i don't care if people use a parser. Saying one is needed is misguided as i met some really awesome console players, who don't use them nor have friends who use them.

And the comment i said based on yoshida, is when he was asked for tips on alex savage, being focus on learning and mastering the fights first, THEN worry about dps. From my experience NA/EN players do it backwards they try to top dps then learn the fight, or top dps to phase skip.

And to the quote about parser use being don't ask don't tell. These forums threads break that, and could easily be reported in game for parser use. Also if you read the last line about ff11, it did have a strict policy I recall tons of Linkshells being banned over windower, or exploiting content.

I also recall this never really being an issue in ff11, but then again people actually communicated, and gave tips on jobs and content and not go "look it up" and expect perfection.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

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Basically you are saying give us the tool and enforce harassment issues via in game policy? Uh sure.

Though you realize if underperformance is causing failure, it will be addressed by kicking people, abandoning or finding the underperformer and helping them. This will happen with or without a parser or strict policy. Though not being able to talk about empirical evidence due to a strict policy makes the third option less enticing. So kick (for a fake reason) or abandon is what you will be left with. Somehow the best option is gone due to the best of intentions in policy making.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ odett

You're twisting my words around and proving to have a poor attitude. First off, if a player has a poor attitude feel free to kick them, but that goes for low or top dps. What I'm trying to say is just kicking someone out simply due to low dps, regardless of attitude, Then use the "its your fault" as a scapegoat for wipes. I've been playing mmo gtames since 2004, I have tried some endgame and its honestly not a make or break, it always is a domino effect.

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Hard enrages disagree with you.

1 DPS under performing by a large margin and nobody dying is more than enough to end the run on any boss that instant wipes the party if not killed in time and It just so happens that the majority of endgame encounters in FFXIV are designed around hard enrages.

That 1 DPS not playing up to snuff is more than enough to wipe the entire party from Bismark Ex to self destruct in Alexander Floor 1 (normal). Sure over gearing an encounter makes it easier for others to pick up the slack as we move on but when it comes to getting content done and especially in progression not pulling your weight can end your party.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ odett

You're twisting my words around and proving to have a poor attitude. First off, if a player has a poor attitude feel free to kick them, but that goes for low or top dps. What I'm trying to say is just kicking someone out simply due to low dps, regardless of attitude, Then use the "its your fault" as a scapegoat for wipes. I've been playing mmo gtames since 2004, I have tried some endgame and its honestly not a make or break, it always is a domino effect.

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That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm stating an example of where a wipe is not caused due to a domino effect and you just keep saying otherwise with no proof. If 3 DPS are doing 1k+ DPS on Faust and the fourth is doing half of that, and the group keeps wiping, it's their fault. I don't know how I can phrase that differently, DPS checks are a thing.

Parser's invade my Safe Space.

I am going to tear down your safe space, brick by brick I shall smash it with glee…

What? WHO IS THAT?

You cannot stop me from getting inside. I am cold, I am hard, and my name… is ACT

@ ry and od

I wasn't done typing lol.

I see you don't get it but w/e. My example is, bizmark ex in learning parties. I set up learning parties and every time the group would try to clear the carapice in 1 shot, if the group didn't they would force wipe then try again and break up the party if it didn't happen. To me thats not learning thats trying to top dps it.

A person can mis-step a mechanic (low or top dps) which causes a sudden shift in the fight, like the person dies then a healer has to raise which, slows the kill rate of the over all group as 2 people are not damaging it, which causes a phase to last a bit longer which can cause a wipe. I seen it happen often in all content even in ff11 endgame. But due to parser, trhe person who mistepped wasn't to blame but the low end dps due to not being able to cover the missing damage of 2 other players.

I'd like to see an in-game parser that shows your values as well as all party and alliance members. But it doesn't show the names of the other players, just their numbers.

That way, you get to see your values, and in comparison with others, without being able to name-and-shame.

It would be cool if it automatically provided a result for each specific boss battle as well as for the entire dungeon or raid.

Such is mah dream.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ ry and od

I wasn't done typing lol.

I see you don't get it but w/e. My example is, bizmark ex in learning parties. I set up learning parties and every time the group would try to clear the carapice in 1 shot, if the group didn't they would force wipe then try again and break up the party if it didn't happen. To me thats not learning thats trying to top dps it.

A person can mis-step a mechanic (low or top dps) which causes a sudden shift in the fight, like the person dies then a healer has to raise which, slows the kill rate of the over all group as 2 people are not damaging it, which causes a phase to last a bit longer which can cause a wipe. I seen it happen often in all content even in ff11 endgame. But due to parser, trhe person who mistepped wasn't to blame but the low end dps due to not being able to cover the missing damage of 2 other players.

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It's not really an either-or situation though. In fights like bis ex, with both mechanics and dps checks, you need to deal with both.

High dps can make up for missteps, just like too many missteps can make high dps irrelevant or a lack of missteps can make low dps less of a problem.

Mistakes happen, it's understandable. But in some cases, low dps can kill a group just as well as mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Sardonia

So that person doing 500dps cannot yet be kicked. Would you all think that to be fine?

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Depends on a content. Some dungeon? I don't care. If clear depends on it - of course it's not fine.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

That's right, those who AFK at the start of a dungeon can do so without fear of a kick

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Diadem?

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

I see you don't get it but w/e. My example is, bizmark ex in learning parties. I set up learning parties and every time the group would try to clear the carapice in 1 shot, if the group didn't they would force wipe then try again and break up the party if it didn't happen. To me thats not learning thats trying to top dps it.

A person can mis-step a mechanic (low or top dps) which causes a sudden shift in the fight, like the person dies then a healer has to raise which, slows the kill rate of the over all group as 2 people are not damaging it, which causes a phase to last a bit longer which can cause a wipe. I seen it happen often in all content even in ff11 endgame. But due to parser, trhe person who mistepped wasn't to blame but the low end dps due to not being able to cover the missing damage of 2 other players.

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Actually, any reasonable person would blame both of them. One for not pulling their weight and the other not handling mechanics correctly.

0.0

For the people arguing that low dps players will be blamed for wipes etc, please check my original post. I have specifically stated needing a PERSONAL parser to assist improving my own rotation, not a raid wide parser to critique anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by Eylirria

Southpark has actually dealt with the general idea behind the people that feel negatively towards parsers, at length, recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

See you guys in whataver comes after the 10 day vacation.

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Just a followup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv2ZMN3T18E

I understand what Yoshida is saying when he thinks the community wouldn't be able to handle an in-game parser responsibly. He's most likely talking about NA and EU. I wouldn't be surprised. With games like DC Universe Online around with EXACT public in-game damage parsers(It gives you the exact number, not a rounded one. It's a calculator), I have a feeling on what the community turn into if it was added. People getting kicked for low heal or damage numbers was a daily thing. Getting fired on for having low dps. There were DPS requirements: "LF Gadgets DPS MUST DO 1.5mil DMG G2G". DCUO was built around the dang scoreboard(parser) and it probably has the craziest community ever.

I can see a personal parser helping but then be easily abused because y'know... we're us.

PF: "LF ilvl195 DRG 1.4K DPS IF LIE KIK AND BLACKLIST"
Join party: "What's your DPS average?"
"What's your DPS average?"
"What's your DPS average?"
All day. I don't wanna hear that mess. I'm fine with the enmity list. If there's an ilvl209 monk(In Savage gear since they do tend to be better than non-endgame 209's. Just observations) and I'm getting more hate on the boss as an ilvl200 DRG, I'm just better. That's that.

I don't really want it that bad or need it. To be honest being a PS4 player and ilvl200 beating full ilvl210 + Thordan weapon guys makes me feel good inside...


And most of them didn't use enmity-reducing skills. One NIN threw a smokebomb on me once... still beat eeem doe. Most BRDs/MCHs and SMNs/BLMs I go against don't use them. I never see DRGs doing Elusive jump.

If you're in Void Ark on... the 3rd boss. You got a MNK in half ilvl200-210, never died once and is in 6th or 7th place.. no parser required that player is just bad..

For those that say an in-game parser wont be that bad, as a veteran DCUO player, played for 3 years, an in-game parser definitely CAN have a bad effect. Remember, the PS4 player base is a very large one, and the ages of these people probably...vary. Not only that, DCUOs community including the forums revolved, rotated, orbited the scoreboard system and it has a big PS community. There were no cross servers when I left(late 2014) and the community...sigh* that community. People were kicked, fried, cooked, virtually smacked or whatever for not doing 1.5mil DPS in certain instances. If you did more damage than a scoreboard chaser(that's a real thing in DCUO... the majority of people even in PvP) then you were kicked, fried, cooked, virtually smacked or whatever for doing more damage.

For those that say parser could help bad players, the scoreboard did not help players in DCUO. Alot of people quit because of it. And also, if that ilvl200 DRG is #4 on the enmity list and no Elusive Jump was seen that day or a heavy thrust or a DRG attacks, what makes you think that DRG is going to go out of their way to use a personal parser? People don't even listen in DF or thank you when you give them help. I wont vote kick a bad player if someone else puts up the vote.. its not right.


I have mixed feelings for an in-game parser.. but leaning towards not wanting one. I have never been called on DPS and have never used a parser because well.. I can't. But adding the parser to PS3/4 is indeed, alot more people with access to that and I'd say console gaming in general can be more "toxic". Not sure though. Never played a PC game.

Sorry 500 DPS means someone is slacking, even an Ice Mage can pull 700 DPS. (At lvl 60)

You know, I've got to take my hat off to the absolute hyperbole that has people taking comments that simply point out that parser based harassment does in fact happen, and conflating it with this SafeSpace crap. Posting the link to SouthPark was genius, it at once both shifts and crystallizes the debate as a face off between soft SJWs and cold hard reality.

Yes, avoid the discussion, shift the ground and belittle others all at the same time. Absolutely amazing.

Another word for a SafeSpace would be 'echo-chamber'. That however, is pretty much what these topics tend to become with one particular group posting and re-posting to agree with each other shouting down any dissent and driving away anyone with an dissenting point of view, no matter how reasonable they are.

All these folks echoing each others thoughts and closing the door on dissent, creating a great echo-chamber for yourselves. Ironically this in effect creates a 'SafeSpace' free from the nasty, terrible critics who otherwise spoil the discussion with opposing views and facts.

I don't expect this to change anything, I'm sure I'll again be dismissed, belittled, insulted and otherwise run-down in many ways. Go for it guys, have fun...in your SafeSpace.

There's already a parser scoreboard. PS4 players are on it. And it fosters competition more than it causes toxicity. Besides, the API is being made, so whether you like it or not, this game will have damage meters available for everyone eventually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arrak

There's already a parser scoreboard. PS4 players are on it. And it fosters competition more than it causes toxicity. Besides, the API is being made, so whether you like it or not, this game will have damage meters available for everyone eventually.

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Yeah and I have a friend who did Savage once and their score was posted on the web(without their permission or knowledge) and because their DPS was a little lower that one day, they could not get into good groups because their DPS was out there and people judged them immediately.

The problem with parsers is that like any other collection of data they require a certain level of intellect, impartiality and honesty to interpret. Put that next to gamers who are frustrated and you get arguments and finger pointing. In the right hands they are a very useful tool but morons can use them too, to them they're just a tool to justify being an arsehole.

I do agree they should be in the game though it's a disappointed agreement, the cat is out of the bag and SE can't put it back in. The only thing worse than an arsehole is an arsehole who can cherry pick data others can't see. At least if everyone had access to the data people could see the same data so cherry pickking would be much more difficult. It would however be best if they'd never been invented but it's too late for that now.

As for the South Park stuff, well that's more of a satire of SJW's like the feminist movement or Black Lives Matter, it's about more than people being dicks in video games, ultimately safe spaces are about segregation and suppresion of free speech, something the world has tried hard to consign to the annals of history and for good reason. These idiots want to bring it back because they're stupid, that's what South Park is mocking.

Kosmos, the safe space argument is about people wanting freedom from critique game-wide. This is a multiplayer game. You play with other people. Parsers are merely a measuring tool. They do not create toxicity. Shit attitudes and basement dwelling does. Players will be toxic about any type of gameplay, not just a dps measure. But in the end, this is an MMORPG. You are NOT free from critique, and you should not be. If you want to be free from critique and toxicity, don't play a multiplayer game. This post was originally about a PS4 player simply wanting the same tools as PC players, tools that are available in every other MMORPG. The anti-parser crowd brought up the toxicity argument. And again, that's just part of MMORPGs and it will be present in every single one. That's what GMs are for.