Void Ark to drop Esoteric parts for upgrade why?

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

The Boss tokens is a good idea, 4-6 was a bit ott, I think 1-2 weeks for a Coat and 3 for a Twine would be fair, it's similar to the wait raiders get now.

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3 weeks wouldn't be too bad, but assuming the belt doesn't use a piece you're going to end up at a rather time consuming 12 weeks for the entire left hand side to be done. So, you're geared just in time for the next Alexander raid and you'll replace it almost immediately, doesn't seem like the greatest idea to me to be quite honest. I honestly don't care about ilvls myself, just want it to be dyeable and soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

The Boss tokens is a good idea, 4-6 was a bit ott, I think 1-2 weeks for a Coat and 3 for a Twine would be fair, it's similar to the wait raiders get now.



So basically A3 is broken because it has random mechanics? It's just natural progression from various mechanics we have already seen through the Coils and 24mans, just more layered with a dps check, a large portion of it is completely scripted.

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Savage Alex it takes 4 tokens no matter the upgrade item you buy so do you think SE would make it take less tokens if you get the Void Ark Tokens? I am guessing no they wouldn't do that probably still make it take 4 void ark tokens before you get a upgrade item.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Savage Alex it takes 4 tokens to matter the upgrade item you buy so do you think SE would make it take less tokens if you get the Void Ark Tokens? I am guessing no they wouldn't do that probably still make it take 4 void ark tokens before you get a upgrade item.

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Did the previous CT give 1/4 of a Oil or 1/4 of a Sand per week? Didn't think so. Not gonna happen. Will get full token, just a choice of it not including weapon initially. Also, in Savage, the item itself (gobwhatever) drops, too, NOT just pages.

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Originally Posted by Ercapote

stuff

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Not skilled enough? We've already killed A3S thank you. You get one Coat and Twine per week from Savage, that's split between 8 people. Now if you are a Tank or Healer say goodbye to ever seeing those and get ready to save you pages for 4 weeks per Coat/Twine, then you have to hope your loot drops or else you are loosing six pages before you can even buy a Coat or Twine. I don't have any problem with doing it the long way as gearing DPS is more important, but then if I have to save for 2 months for 2 Twines, it's going to piss me off when some scrub gets one for clearing a faceroll content.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

3 weeks wouldn't be too bad, but assuming the belt doesn't use a piece you're going to end up at a rather time consuming 12 weeks for the entire left hand side to be done. So, you're geared just in time for the next Alexander raid and you'll replace it almost immediately, doesn't seem like the greatest idea to me to be quite honest. I honestly don't care about ilvls myself, just want it to be dyeable and soon as possible.

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It's probably going to be more than 12 weeks until 3.2, a clear cut three month wait is far to optimistic for how updates have been recently. But belts are up-gradable with Coats and not Twines, Twines upgrade head, chest, hands, legs and feet.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Savage Alex it takes 4 tokens to matter the upgrade item you buy so do you think SE would make it take less tokens if you get the Void Ark Tokens? I am guessing no they wouldn't do that probably still make it take 4 void ark tokens before you get a upgrade item.

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That's what I originally said, but then you know...casuals cried

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Progression players have to have four weeks of A3S clears to get a Twine, why should players running the Void Ark be treated better? Especially when the Void Ark is a much smaller time investment and will have much lower skill requirements.

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No one is saying they must be treated better but making it take weeks on end to garner something will make it dead content from the get go. Because, let's be honest here, no one is really after the gear save for those who need a quick fill in or the glamour hoarders. I'd say in all fairness for everyone involved make it one guaranteed token a week for accessories, two for armor and three for weapon. At least that way those that want an out have it within normal parameters.

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

No one is saying they must be treated better but making it take weeks on end to garner something will make it dead content from the get go. Because, let's be honest here, no one is really after the gear save for those who need a quick fill in or the glamour hoarders. I'd say in all fairness for everyone involved make it one guaranteed token a week for accessories, two for armor and three for weapon. At least that way those that want an out have it within normal parameters.

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I don't think they are adding weapons because of The Singularity Reactor Extreme, imagine that's going to give out i205 weapons or i200 with good secondaries. So if i'm to understand correctly you mean it would be an accessory/belt upgrade every week and a left side piece every 2-3 from separate tokens? That idea doesn't sound bad to me.

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I don't think they are adding weapons because of The Singularity Reactor Extreme, imagine that's going to give out i205 weapons or i200 with good secondaries.

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They will add weapons to Void Ark, just not right off. And Thordan can't give just i200, even with 'good secondaries'. They said Thordan would help people clear savage, and they didn't design eso weapons with intentionally bad stats, at least not for all jobs (Summoner has 92 crit on theirs). It'll likely be i205.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

They will add weapons to Void Ark, just not right off.

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why? they've never done that before.

we're getting a trial with weapons.
we can get Eso weapon upgrades outside of A4S.
we're getting a new relic quest.

why waste another weapon design on a tier of content that has never dropped weapons and what iLv would those weapons be?

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why waste another weapon design on a tier of content that has never dropped weapons and what iLv would those weapons be?

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Eso i210 weapons. I don't know what you were thinking I was talking about.

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we can get Eso weapon upgrades outside of A4S.

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How besides Void Ark not-right-off at 3.1?

[QUOTE=SchalaZeal;3397944]Eso i210 weapons. I don't know what you were thinking I was talking about./QUOTE]

that's not a weapon, that's a weapon upgrade item. not the same thing.

Miscreant above seemed to say the weapon upgrade wouldn't be included. At all. And I was replying to them, not you.

I'd much rather left side upgrades and right side ones be available at the start of Void Ark, slightly gated (I think the 1 week for right side, 2 weeks for left side is probably what they'll go for, with the weapon upgrade probably eventually taking 3 weeks--all this mirrors the time investment for Esoterics upgrades, too) is far better than putting them on Hunts with no gates.

I never liked the rate at which Hunts facilitated upgrades (largely because of the effects on the community itself and the types of play it encouraged), so I'm fine with them moving all of that function to Void Ark.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I'd hope it's not weekly, the game is hurt hard and right now I don't see a weekly restriction being a great idea to bring people back to the game since the idea of having a week to sit and around and stomach the same old content instead of the fresh might put more people out.

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Yes because everyone needs full 210 gear NOW! /sarcasm off

There is literally no reason non raid content should give raid gear. Except to make people who have some kind of complex about not having the best of everything happy. Hell plenty of us don't even bother getting Eso anymore because what is the point in putting alts in 200 gear to do content designed for 160.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Does this mean we can upgrade our Eso armor now?

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Yes currently you need to run Savage, but after the update it will be the same thing on how ST was when they added oil and sands.
So i guess everyone will be on par gear wise more or less.

Im pretty sure the upgrade mats will be from the tokens and will likely be 1:1 for either Right or left side with weapon being the exception. New weapons from the ex battle will prob be 205 and the relic being 210 after you've completed the quest. We are reaching the last half of the exclusivity window for 210 ilvl as raid gear, Typically on the last half the progress towards these items is increased substantially in the interest of gearing people for 3.2 This is the "catch up" patch.

Personally as a savage raider I have no issue with this. I prefer people to be on equal ilvl as it allows the good players to shine on skill alone while the mediocre players who's abilities were being proportionally inflated by rng drops to be back to where they belong.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Yes because everyone needs full 210 gear NOW! /sarcasm off

There is literally no reason non raid content should give raid gear. Except to make people who have some kind of complex about not having the best of everything happy. Hell plenty of us don't even bother getting Eso anymore because what is the point in putting alts in 200 gear to do content designed for 160.

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Ok, but what reason is there to keep content exclusive to a specific raid when it'll just get outdated in a few months anyway? Might as well open the flood gates.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok, but what reason is there to keep content exclusive to a specific raid when it'll just get outdated in a few months anyway? Might as well open the flood gates.

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Because the content is still current? Less than 2000 people world wide have cleared a4s, and that's not taking into consideration alt teams that many top end raiders use.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Did the previous CT give 1/4 of a Oil or 1/4 of a Sand per week? Didn't think so. Not gonna happen. Will get full token, just a choice of it not including weapon initially. Also, in Savage, the item itself (gobwhatever) drops, too, NOT just pages.

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Don't worry, the welfare loot is not going anywhere. You will get it faster and easier than raiders ever did. Even if you have to wait a handful of weeks to trade your tokens in, you will still get that EZ mode twine.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Not skilled enough? We've already killed A3S thank you. You get one Coat and Twine per week from Savage, that's split between 8 people. Now if you are a Tank or Healer say goodbye to ever seeing those and get ready to save you pages for 4 weeks per Coat/Twine, then you have to hope your loot drops or else you are loosing six pages before you can even buy a Coat or Twine. I don't have any problem with doing it the long way as gearing DPS is more important, but then if I have to save for 2 months for 2 Twines, it's going to piss me off when some scrub gets one for clearing a faceroll content.

It's probably going to be more than 12 weeks until 3.2, a clear cut three month wait is far to optimistic for how updates have been recently. But belts are up-gradable with Coats and not Twines, Twines upgrade head, chest, hands, legs and feet.

That's what I originally said, but then you know...casuals cried

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It's best to just stop caring about this game, that's what I started to do.

Trying to argue for high expectation and performance to lead to appropriate rewards is lost on this crowd. It's a Sisyphus styled endeavor to try and debate with the casual crowd in this forum.

Just enjoy this game for the few friends you make, put your head back, sit under the feed pipe, open your mouth and ingest the warm vanilla paste that 90% of this content is like. You will never have work for your meal in this game, unless you want your meal first for a week or two, but eventually you will notice that the meal you worked for is the same slop that the welfare crowd gets for just rolling up to the trough. This game will never be a beacon of MMO gaming.

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

No one is saying they must be treated better but making it take weeks on end to garner something will make it dead content from the get go. Because, let's be honest here, no one is really after the gear save for those who need a quick fill in or the glamour hoarders. I'd say in all fairness for everyone involved make it one guaranteed token a week for accessories, two for armor and three for weapon. At least that way those that want an out have it within normal parameters.

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It should take weeks, just like it takes raiders weeks to save up pages. Just more special treatment wanted for the special crowd that wants everything for nothing.

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Don't worry, the welfare loot is not going anywhere. You will get it faster and easier than raiders ever did. Even if you have to wait a handful of weeks to trade your tokens in, you will still get that EZ mode twine.

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I'd do savage, but not until I have a full FC-only or FC+friend party, no random-people-I-don't-know static. I run the FC even if I'm not 'officially' guildmaster. And I avoid DF or PF content most of the time, especially if its hard or fun. I certainly wouldn't do it for the gear, I would do it for the fun of doing it together. My e-peen can be stroked elsewhere.

The raid ilvl has only ever remained exclusive for the initial patch cycle. It always opens up after that. The top end folks already have there gear and this is typically where the nerfs and echo begin coming down the pipe so the entire raid eventually gets "welfare mode" during the end of the following patch cycle anyhow to allow for the people who weren't good enough to clear it on the initial run to have a chance to catch up. Although I am unsure if they will be doing echo or nerfs for savage this time around. We will see. But gear wise this game desperately needs some horizontal progression right now so alternative gear sets will add some depth to a currently very stale gearing system.

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/30/3047a9...1310cf4820.jpg

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

I'd do savage, but not until I have a full FC-only or FC+friend party, no random-people-I-don't-know static. I run the FC even if I'm not 'officially' guildmaster. And I avoid DF or PF content most of the time, especially if its hard or fun. I certainly wouldn't do it for the gear, I would do it for the fun of doing it together. My e-peen can be stroked elsewhere.

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ummm.... you do know most statics consist of a tight knit group of friends or at least associates? It's not a grab bag each week of randos, it's usually the same people.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

The raid ilvl has only ever remained exclusive for the initial patch cycle. It always opens up after that. The top end folks already have there gear and this is typically where the nerfs and echo begin coming down the pipe so the entire raid eventually gets "welfare mode" during the end of the following patch cycle anyhow to allow for the people who weren't good enough to clear it on the initial run to have a chance to catch up. Although I am unsure if they will be doing echo or nerfs for savage this time around. We will see. But gear wise this game desperately needs some horizontal progression right now so alternative gear sets will add some depth to a currently very stale gearing system.

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Lets be real, what is there to catch up to? If you can't cut it in savage, you have normal mode. There is not duty that requires ilvl 210 for entry. All the content can easily be done in ilvl 200 gear, even the 3.1 content. Players at this point either don't play/care, have a full ilvl 200 set, are on their way to to ilvl 210, or are already ilvl210, The biggest difference between the current active endgame players is 10 ilvls. That's it, just a mere 10 ilvls. If people really want those 10 ilvls, they should step up their game or wait for 3.2, when alex savage is truly old content and catch up is warranted

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Originally Posted by zosia

ummm.... you do know most statics consist of a tight knit group of friends or at least associates? It's not a grab bag each week of randos, it's usually the same people.

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Some people prefer to start statics with people they already know, though. That's most likely what they mean. I'm the same way. I don't tend to join a static unless I know at least one person in it, and I prefer for all of the group to be people I know.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Some people prefer to start statics with people they already know, though. That's most likely what they mean. I'm the same way. I don't tend to join a static unless I know at least one person in it, and I prefer for all of the group to be people I know.

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You're right, it's always better to go into a group with people you know. Just seems weird to me to intentionally gate yourself completely from content because of some social anxiety. A raid team is likely to grow close over time. Even if the other people are all brand new to you, it's a great opportunity to meet new people.

It's no different that starting or joining an FC for the first time. There will be new people and you eventually grow to like or dislike them.

What Alahra said. I want to know the people before I join the static, even if it's "just FC people I met a few weeks ago and never saw in real life", it's better than "people I saw in Idyllshire". Sure, bonds can exist over time, but I want a bond that works beyond just raiding.

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Originally Posted by zosia

Just seems weird to me to intentionally gate yourself completely from content because of some social anxiety.

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It likely seems weird to you because you don't have social anxiety. :3 It can be a real pain sometimes. I don't generally join FCs unless there are already people I know in them, too.

I don't get why people must always compare themselves to each other.

Casual side: But they have something that I don't waaaaah.

Raider side: But they are going to get something that they didn't have to work for waaaaaaaah.

Honestly both sides should stop caring about what other people have. How does it impact your game? How?

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

How does it impact your game? How?

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That's the one million gil question right here, folks. How does it affect the other side? No one knows, but personal satisfaction always seems to be a key player here.

The 'hardcore raider' has always hated seeing 'their precious' items 'just handed out'. Thing is, is any of it really being 'just handed out'? Sure, the upgrade items will be made more accessible, but it's not going to be as easy as walking up to Triptix Stumblebum and asking if he dropped a silver gear or a golden gear. We're going to need to run Void Ark, and we don't really know how hard that's going to be. If it's anything like Alexander Normal that could prove alot harder than the 'hardcore raiders' are making it out to be. Heck, World of Darkness proved fairly difficult with the first and last boss scoring more wipes than the whole of Crystal Tower before it. I mean, really, we still have parties wiping to Alexander Floor 1! Nothing is going to be 'just handed out', it's just not going to require having to deal with 'hardcore raiders' to get.

As a hardcore raid member who has had a4s down for 2 months, I have to ask this question: why do some of you care that the vast majority of players will now be able to upgrade their gear? We've had plenty of time to be a special snowflake. The good players will still do good damage, heal well, and tank well. The bad players will still do bad numbers and fail mechanics. I look forward to getting i200 chests/legs and coats/twines for alts.

I'm honestly never sure why this conversation always crops up every catch up patch. Difficult to acquire items being made more readily available is never a bad thing.

"But real raiders have never seen a twine!" Then you've been stonewalled by A3S and either need to up your capabilities as a raider and/or you need better gear. If you're rocking i200 and still can't down it, this is your chance to get that better gear you need to help you not be walled any more.

My friend said today that it doesn't matter if glamour ppl get their twines or coats, coz they still will be doing 500 dps and that's the sad truth.

Objection! Some glamour players do care about their performance just as much as their clothes. Gotta look your best when you're kicking ass after all.

I'm big on glamour... why does glamour make you bad lololol?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If I had to guess its going to take 4 tokens from Void Ark to get a upgrade item the same number of tokens it takes from savage. So about of month for a upgrade item.

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So people can have full i210 by November 2016? By which time we'll be at nearly i300 gear? It's a very bad guess.

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Originally Posted by Vangl

As a hardcore raid member who has had a4s down for 2 months, I have to ask this question: why do some of you care that the vast majority of players will now be able to upgrade their gear? We've had plenty of time to be a special snowflake. The good players will still do good damage, heal well, and tank well. The bad players will still do bad numbers and fail mechanics. I look forward to getting i200 chests/legs and coats/twines for alts.

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ego.

Those who complain it takes them a long time to gear from savage seems to be forgetting they will also be able to run VA and obtain said upgrade.
They will have the same access to VA like everyone else.
Those who talk about need? Like you actually need gear from content you can already beat.
do you need A4S gear to beat A4S?

Face it. if you still can't beat savage until after all this time, it's time for you to wallow in the mud like us filthy filthy casuals. :p

Consider the following:

1. A casual player isn't likely to be as good as a raider.
2. As such, a casual player likely won't be clearing as well and as fast as a raider regardless of difficulty.
3. Unless perhaps you literally have raid-level players carrying people through it, casuals won't be clearing VA as fast as some people assume.
4. To some extent in terms of difficulty relative to skill level, the difficulty of VA is not equally distributed across the board.

In reality I highly doubt that it will be raining uber-lootz from VA from the get go, because in as much as VA will be definitely easier than AS the skill level of a casual taking on VA is not the same as the skill level of a raider taking on AS. From the eyes of a casual, VA may as well be a Savage, and they won't be clearing it as fast as people assume.

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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

In reality I highly doubt that it will be raining uber-lootz from VA from the get go, because in as much as VA will be definitely easier than AS the skill level of a casual taking on VA is not the same as the skill level of a raider taking on AS. From the eyes of a casual, VA may as well be a Savage, and they won't be clearing it as fast as people assume.

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The difficulty will be around CT the time those runs came out.
Once people found out the mechanics (example WoD on day 1: "hey guys, somehow i'm in Cerberus belly") the main difficulty will be in communication.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The difficulty will be around CT the time those runs came out.
Once people found out the mechanics (example WoD on day 1: "hey guys, somehow i'm in Cerberus belly") the main difficulty will be in communication.

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People have been having trouble with communication in 4 man dungeons. Case rested lol