Block first timers from Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by Kathyz

Funny thing is when i enter in "farm groups" we wipe more than in a first clear

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^ Been my experience with groups i'd rather join a clear than a farm since we clear smoother/faster than a farm

i support this

Thanks for your support by the way everyone :)

I want to support this. However, I get the feeling one reason a lot of players try to sneak into farm parties is just because of a lack of people willing to do clear groups. Thankfully, I've only ever had to resort to sneaking into a party once, back in 1.0 when Ifrit hard mode was the newest and best content. I don't really condone lying to folks, but at the same time I don't think new players should be stuck for weeks or months on a piece of content just because finding 7 saints willing to give up their extremely valuable time for a run can be hard to come by.

Yes please. I alway hate that. If I join a farm party and get shown the bonus I reconfirm it was a farm party and then leave. The new person felt my time was beneath them and demanding a free carry. So I'll just leave instead of wiping all day in a farm party.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

I want to support this. However, I get the feeling one reason a lot of players try to sneak into farm parties is just because of a lack of people willing to do clear groups. Thankfully, I've only ever had to resort to sneaking into a party once, back in 1.0 when Ifrit hard mode was the newest and best content. I don't really condone lying to folks, but at the same time I don't think new players should be stuck for weeks or months on a piece of content just because finding 7 saints willing to give up their extremely valuable time for a run can be hard to come by.

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Why wait for a clear/learn group? Start your own. It doesn't have to be 7 other saints. There could be players that are new as well, and players that need a clear also have Free Companies and Linkshells for support. You can make friends in this game, and you should do so. You could also contact the party leader, tell them what your situation is (you've been to all phases, you're confident with what to do, bla bla bla) and see what happens. Outright sneaking into a farm group hoping for a carry (or worse, wiping the group due to mechanics depending on the fight) is a really underhanded tactic. I get it, we're all new once, we've all been there, but there are many ways of getting your clear instead of sneaking into a farm group, because if you don't know what you're doing, it will show.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

I want to support this. However, I get the feeling one reason a lot of players try to sneak into farm parties is just because of a lack of people willing to do clear groups. Thankfully, I've only ever had to resort to sneaking into a party once, back in 1.0 when Ifrit hard mode was the newest and best content. I don't really condone lying to folks, but at the same time I don't think new players should be stuck for weeks or months on a piece of content just because finding 7 saints willing to give up their extremely valuable time for a run can be hard to come by.

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That's what FCs and friends are for. And if your FC isn't willing to help someone get a clear on something, it might be time to find a new FC.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Why wait for a clear/learn group? Start your own.

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When I say a lack of folks willing to do clear/learn groups, I also mean folks willing to join one. FC and friends work, and that's what I use nowadays. But I also remember being a new player back before I had that network of people. And ironically enough, the way I met my current FC was by sneaking into the aforementioned Ifrit run. The best way to make friends is to prove you're useful. But you need to be able to join content to show you're useful.

I 100% agree with op,

There needs to be an option in PF to not allow first timers non clearers to join gear farm party's and in fact I will go one step further there should be a DF option to not group with new people if you have cleared the duty 5+ times then you know you wont be with people who got carried and should clear it no problems on farm even.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

I 100% agree with op,

There needs to be an option in PF to not allow first timers non clearers to join gear farm party's and in fact I will go one step further there should be a DF option to not group with new people if you have cleared the duty 5+ times then you know you wont be with people who got carried and should clear it no problems on farm even.

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DF needs to be left alone - no disrespect intended, but it is there specifically to assign people regardless of expereince together. While I do believe people need to go into these fights having read/researched it (No reason to que Ravana-EX blind when it goes DF-able), I Do not think we should isolate the playerbases in DF when we have PF to create specified teams.

All for the support of being able to customize and control your PF better.

There's kind of a teeny tiny little Grand Canyon size gap in the idea to make an option to not allow people that are new, or even a set amount of clears.

"Selling Alex, Ravana EX, Bismarck EX!" etc groups exist. and while fairly overpriced, the people who have the gil and no skill are still going to find their way into your group by getting X amount of paid clears to bypass that check. You think that as soon as they become eligible for a run, they're going to pay whatever the price is now when they could just go leech off of your group for free?

Or on the other hand, they can start their own group requiring X amount of runs and hope they get the premium players so they can leech.

I'm all for this.

Support given.

All day yesterday farming for glamour in a party with "multi kill only" and we'd start and see the 100 tome bonus... which would shortly be followed by either a carry while they were dead > them leaving or them making it near impossible to do it > causing the actual farm capable players to leave.

Rarely do these people have the decency to even look up what they try to leech, literally just sneaking in for a carry... such ignorance to the point they think they can do this, on fights where the mechanics will reveal them, it's annoying.

So yeah, I100% support this suggestion, if only to filter out the bulk of these rude people.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

I don't think this will happen and rightly so. Almost every single party finder would be locked out from newcomers which is wrong and i believe SE would feel the same way.

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This is not a good reason to not implement the idea presented in the OP. Almost every single party finder that is set up for "clears" will put the boot to the new player anyway. What you say, already happens in-game. There is literally no reason to not have this as an option.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

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This may be one of the rare cases where I began agreeing with your post, and then as I progressed I stopped sharing your point of view even though I did give you a like... I agree that if this is implemented they need to put a check in-game to make sure you have actually cleared the content you are asking others to have cleared. However you continue on to blast vets for not wanting to help. You present your opinion as if the veterans asking for this option should somehow feel bad about excluding new players from their parties.

I counter with, the actual rude person in this situation is the person who falsely joins a "farm" party without knowing the fight, and expecting people who put the learning time in already to carry them. I join learning/first clear parties every once in awhile to try and help people out, but I am not obligated to help these people when I do want something for me. And then the spat of this "Me, Me, Me" stuff............

Am I in charge of gearing up the playerbase? Am I required to devote my personal time for other's gains? I can only help people so often before I, ya know, actually do want to do some stuff that benefits me as well. You also need to realize that, as a new player, MMO's progress with or without you (not you per se, but colloquially). If you want to jump into the train later than everyone else, it's no one's fault but your own. When content comes out, *news flash*, everyone is new. Many of us put the hours in, wiping constantly, to learn these fights. And then a month later, a new person sneaks into a farm group where everyone else is prepped to clear, and wipes happen because of the inconsideration shown by the individual who joined a "farm" party and has never even beaten the content before.

I have patience. I enjoy helping others. I do give new players a chance. But sometimes, I want to farm also. Why are you making it seem like the people who don't want their farm parties destroyed by 1 inconsiderate person are the bad guys here?

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Originally Posted by shape

You would not use kill exp only etc in the message, just simply put a your dps must be this much at minimum.

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I'm utterly shocked this comment made it this far without someone just completely shutting you down. *lets you borrow his flameshield* If you keep verbalizing those types of opinions around here, you will need it. Just for the record, I agree with you and would love some type of in-game parse program (mainly because I play on PS4 so I'm kind of screwed), but oh my some of the people here think parsing is the worst thing to ever happen. Especially the way you presented it (using to prevent players from joining because of low DPS is literally, one of the hottest topics on the forums and the one that has the playerbase most divided)

The left edge of the shield got dinged up when The Hunt was introduced, but it's mostly intact. :)


Thread Idea: +1

Farm parties are horrible either way. Get your own static.

This is why snipping only part of peoples posts should be banned, the point of putting a must have minimum dps to join simply replaces must have this item lvl and this much exp, list goes on. i'm all for letting as many people try to do content as the next person but if they keep failing to meet the min requirements i'm not going to let the people who are meeting them be held back.

to make this very clear for you Jay I do not consent to parser in duty finder, that is where any level of play style is allowed, not in PF where 90% of the groups want at least ok dps and a certain amount of exp.
This exclusion you talk about its already happening on a much worse scale than when I played wow years ago, we also had parser(recount) and groups asking for min dps req back then and it was better compared to how allot of FFXIV PF requirements are. If things have gotten worse its the new type of player-base vs the old. LMFAO

If I where to not doing my job(tank) in my raid and was asked to leave I would understand, how is this different for a dps who joins PF, who did not meet min dps req for Ravanna ex.. Feel free to tell me the actual min dps req here I heard its 600 to 700, give or take either way.
It took me a week to get Ex Bizmark down because of 1 or 2 people not meeting dps req in most party finders(yes many of the party leaders used ACT) one run had bard pulling less than 300 dps, in your world he would be allowed to continue to screw everyone else over.
So yes next time you snip someones post make sure you read the whole post not come across as stupid. ( oh wait its the forums)


FYI welcome to endgame.

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Originally Posted by shape

This is why snipping only part of peoples posts should be banned, the point of putting a must have minimum dps to join simply replaces must have this item lvl and this much exp, list goes on. i'm all for letting as many people try to do content as the next person but if they keep failing to meet the min requirements i'm not going to let the people who are meeting them be held back.

to make this very clear for you Jay I do not consent to parser in duty finder, that is where any level of play style is allowed, not in PF where 90% of the groups want at least ok dps and a certain amount of exp.
This exclusion you talk about its already happening on a much worse scale than when I played wow years ago, we also had parser(recount) and groups asking for min dps req back then and it was better compared to how allot of FFXIV PF requirements are.
If things have gotten worse its the new type of playerbase vs the old. LMFAO


If I where to not doing my job(tank) in my raid and was asked to leave I would understand, how is this different for a dps who joins PF, who did not meet min dps req for Ravanna ex, feel free to tell me the actual min dps req here i heard its 600 to 700, give or take either way .so yes next time you snip someones post make sure you read the whole post not come across as stupid. ( oh wait its the forums)


FYI welcome to endgame and raiding mentality where fair rule sets are put in place.

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Um, OK...I never once mentioned Duty Finder when referring to your post. I snipped your passage because of stupid character restrictions on this forum. I read your post, which included your first sentence "outside of Duty Finder." How in the world did you come up with all of this shit you just posted? I made a joke, man. I thought the part about the flameshield would have made that inherently noticeable but apparently I was wrong. You posted something that very clearly showed you wanted parsing outside of the Duty Finder. Many people in this forum will attack you because of that.....

I know of the exclusion. I actually play this game too. I don't get excluded, though. So I wouldn't know anything about being turned away from content.

Your join date is Jan 2013, but you've only had 56 posts here. I was trying to do you a solid by warning you that people will attack you quite maliciously on this forum because of your parser viewpoint. But if you want to throw personal insults about my intelligence at me when your reading comprehension is subpar at best, then whatever have a good one pal.

FYI, check my lodestone. I "endgame" quite regularly.

And here, I'll go the extra mile to cut/copy/paste/edit my response so I can leave your entire, ridiculous comment in the quote box. Happy?

Edit: Oh my word you've added some extra idiocy to your reply after the initial posting. I wonder why? Character limitations couldn't have had anything to do with it, right? I better make sure to quote this properly!!

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Originally Posted by shape

It took me a week to get Ex Bizmark down because of 1 or 2 people not meeting dps req in most party finders(yes many of the party leaders used ACT) one run had bard pulling less than 300 dps, in your world he would be allowed to continue to screw everyone else over..

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I mean, who's response were you even reading? In my world? I AGREED WITH YOU....If any bard in party was doing 300 DPS in 3.0 content he/she would be dropped quicker than you dropping the ball responding to my post.

And I'm stupid. Rich.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Like, anytime I see someone complaining that someone new has joined the group for any given content, and wanting to kick them straight away, without even giving them a chance. I always think "Amazing how quickly people forget that they were once that new/first-time player joining someone else's group... and how quickly they try to distance themselves from that fact".

Some people will attempt to justify their attitude with comments like, "well after doing this run 100 times, I don't have the patience to deal with carrying noobs who don't know it". Again... failing to see past their own nose, and forgetting where they came from, that they were once that new player and could, very well, have been "carried" themselves on many of their first runs of content, more than they realized at the time.

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So, if you join a party specifically to farm, you don't mind someone joining that has no clue what's going on? I mean, don't get me wrong, I've helped tons of people with clears on content ranging anywhere from Titan EX to T13 (not just people I know either; my static used to run learning party nights every Saturday in the weeks leading up to HW) but there's times when I just want to set it up and knock it down with a minimum of fuss. Why is it such an awful thing that, for a couple of hours, I want to accomplish something to further my own goals? I play this game for my own enjoyment. If I help, I'd like to think that I'm allowed to do so by choice rather than because someone snuck into my party and attempted to strongarm me into it by not speaking up when we ask who's new.

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This relentless intolerance and the whole "me me me, I'm all that's important" mentality is really corroding whatever sense of community even still exists in MMOs anymore... slowly but surely.

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I'd say that expecting to be let into every single party regardless of your experience is the epitome of the "me me me, I'm all that's important" special snowflake brand of thinking. If you've been to 2% but don't have the clear because pugs suck, then by all means PM the party leader. Many of us understand and are willing to give you a shot to prove yourself. If we clear smoothly we'll go on to farm. If you lied about knowing the fight and you proceed to wipe three times to the first mechanic though, expect to get kicked. Lying like that is basically shooting yourself in the foot. That's seven people on the server that are a lot less likely to help you clear. I for one end up blacklisting people like that. If you can't be honest with me, then I don't want you in my party.

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I know people will immediately point to the worst possible examples they can think of to justify it... as though every situation is like that... and it's really disingenuous.

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So is making a blanket statement calling people selfish for not necessarily wanting to help/carry 24/7.

I see no problem with adding a "clear required" checkbox to prevent folks from joining a party if they do not yet have the clear.

If a person believes they have the experience and equipment necessary to succeed in a farm party even if they don't have the win, they can /tell the party leader and ask that an exception be made in their case. The leader may or may not agree, but it's still better than trying to sneak into a party for the win and hope you don't get noticed.

Farm parties are not intended for players looking to get their first win, and allowing tools to prevent this from happening in no way stops players from forming learning parties.

If there's anyone in this thread who makes a habit of joining farm parties for their clears and objects to this for that reason - yer doin' it wrong.

This is my bad for taking your post as aggressive, to be fair 95% of my posts where i've tried to post anything constructive or go the middle ground gets the aggressive or stupid responses. which is why I rarely post

i've had people snip parts of my post that explain both sides with my opinion+ explanation and they focus on the bad side and use only that in their post. This really does Piss Me Off when it happens.

Anyway apologies for seeing red Jay Common

Y'all just reminded me of why I dislike pugging and refuse to jump in an existing group in party finder.

Bad title, good idea.

But, it's only a good idea if the "newcomers unwelcome" box is grayed out if you or anyone currently in your party has not yet cleared the content. Even I've seen those "farm" parties where the leader hasn't cleared yet and is trying to trick people into carrying them =\

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Originally Posted by shape

This is my bad for taking your post as aggressive, to be fair 95% of my posts where i've tried to post anything constructive or go the middle ground gets the aggressive or stupid responses. which is why I rarely post

i've had people snip parts of my post that explain both sides with my opinion+ explanation and they focus on the bad side and use only that in their post. This really does Piss Me Off when it happens.

Anyway apologies for seeing red Jay Common

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No worries, I probably got more defensive then needed as well. I understand your frustration, as I too have had my words twisted by respondents on this forum far too often. I do think we share the sentiments essentially when it comes to this topic, though. :)

I do like this idea, tbh. It segregates the community even further. Most farm groups I've seen or have joined were incapable of handling the content entirely, so I don't see this killing any problems. It'll just create new ones instead.

Can we also get a asshole button that kicks the aholes that join DF expecting new players to go at there flow? i'm being sarcastic :P but really if you make a PF can't you just get all your members from a FC or a friend that has friends in a FC?

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

but really if you make a PF can't you just get all your members from a FC or a friend that has friends in a FC?

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No.


(/10char)

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Can we also get a asshole button that kicks the aholes that join DF expecting new players to go at there flow?

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I second that... no sarcasm xD

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Can we also get a asshole button that kicks the aholes that join DF expecting new players to go at there flow? i'm being sarcastic :P but really if you make a PF can't you just get all your members from a FC or a friend that has friends in a FC?

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Fine by me if the positive/helpful/experienced players get an option to do the same to players who refuse to invest the time we have in understanding the game and job mechanics rather than whining until the other 3 party members hold you by the hand only for you to refuse listening to our advice. Not always the case, but when it is, I get salty- yes.

Hey Luna, a suggestion. This is gonna sound scummy but it works. Have a friend or FC mate who is not doing the farm set up a "learning party" at the same time. Set it to lootmaster and make it clear bonuses get no loot. Launch booth PF's at the same time. The ole "red herring" trick usually works.

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Originally Posted by Escha

Farm parties are horrible either way. Get your own static.

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I'm absolutely sick of seeing posts like this. Stop flipping it around. Why can't the players joining my farm get THEIR own static instead of messing up my groups? STOP BEING LAZY and make your own clear group.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I'm absolutely sick of seeing posts like this. Stop flipping it around. Why can't the players joining my farm get THEIR own static instead of messing up my groups? STOP BEING LAZY and make your own clear group.

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Honestly I don't farm primals cause I could really care less about the pony's. But in respect to those that are farming when I do a clear party with another I make a clear party in the PF. Their time is as valuable as anyone else's. If the description says that it's a farm party and your joining it without the intention to do so, then your wasting someone's time. You are the bad guy in that instance as you are ignoring the wishes of 7 others for selfish reasons.

So yeah, I agree with you OP.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Honestly I don't farm primals cause I could really care less about the pony's. But in respect to those that are farming when I do a clear party with another I make a clear party in the PF. Their time is as valuable as anyone else's. If the description says that it's a farm party and your joining it without the intention to do so, then your wasting someone's time. You are the bad guy in that instance as you are ignoring the wishes of 7 others for selfish reasons.

So yeah, I agree with you OP.

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That's my entire point, thank you. Some people don't seem to understand that they're the rude ones by joining the farm party. Apparently I'm the bad one for not accepting the new players.

Bump. 10 char

Yeah... still need another Tittle for this xD. I hope Devs read this one because of all the "Ideas" in the forum lately, this its the only one no Insane xD... That Tittle Ruin you xD

As someone who hasn't cleared any of the EX primals, I agree with OP. It's incredibly rude to join farm parties if you don't know the fight and haven't done it before.
If you want to learn the fight or clear it for the first time or whatever, make a learning party. Don't join a farm party in the hopes of piggy-backing off other people.

idk why a lot of people are bashing the op. he/she presented an idea backed up by reasonable points that benefits plenty of people, and hurts nobody but dishonest liars.

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Originally Posted by Destomius

idk why a lot of people are bashing the op. he/she presented an idea backed up by reasonable points that benefits plenty of people, and hurts nobody but dishonest liars.

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Pssst. Alot of people are dishonest liars ;)

Zeonx, did you ... read the thread at all? Do you know the difference between Duty Finder (matches random players to a random duty, not what this thread is about) and Party Finder (players group up together and then go into a specific duty, what this thread is about)?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

What if you are that new player to the dungeon should we block you, this is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

You don't want to help new players but you expect people to help you when you make a dungeon, meaning you need the help from a experienced player so by your logic you want the experience players to block you out of their dungeon?

This way you have all new players oh that's right they are blocked guess you didn't think of that.


Whats wrong with helping people learn the fight, you learned it with others but because you think you're better than them after you learn the fight you can just push someone out you used to be.

That is messed up.

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No one said anything about dungeons, we're on about FARM parties for EX primals and other trials.

Yes we were all new once, blah, blah blah.... but the point of a "FARM PARTY" is to farm the content with people who have already cleared it for minimal fuss. It is NOT created to teach people how to fight or get them a clear.

If they want to be taught they can create a learning party, but they need to stay the hell out of our farm's as it's nothing short of harassment to waste 7 other people's time wiping because they don't know how the fight works.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Whats wrong with helping people learn the fight, you learned it with others but because you think you're better than them after you learn the fight you can just push someone out you used to be.

That is messed up.

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Wow you totally don't get it. Helping people learn the fight is completely separate from the issue at hand.

When you put up a "clear" party or a "learning" party you are there to help people learn the fight. But when you are farming a drop, sometimes one with a very low drop rate. You want to be able to get in and out as many times as you can, as quickly as you can. People who are constantly dying because they do not know the fight are a burden to healers and other dps who have to pick up the slack.

It would be like every time you are out with a friend, having to explain to them how to drive. Its going to take 4 times as long to get to where you want to go, if you make it there at all. Wouldn't you rather go out with a friend who just knew how to drive?