Message from actual new player

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Originally Posted by TunaTime

So before any new player can enjoy the game they have to level crafting? That makes sense...

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god forbid people use intended content and mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Bled

god forbid people use intended content and mechanics.

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Really?

*Searches the description of Conjurer for the part that says I have to level weaver, alchemist and carpenter to level it*

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Originally Posted by TunaTime

So before any new player can enjoy the game they have to level crafting? That makes sense...

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Until the economy picks up, most likely.

That may be unreasonable, but devs can't just snap their fingers and everything falls into place when it comes to [this feature].

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You're just coming off as an arrogant prick doling out shitty advice at this point

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So let's keep spreading misconceptions then? You're smart.

If my advice was shitty, everyone would be aware of these things already. Instead we have people crying they can't level when it has never been easier.

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Originally Posted by Bled

god forbid people use intended content and mechanics.

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I'm not saying crafting is a bad thing but forcing a new player to level one or two crafting classes before they can enjoy the game as a war / magi class is stupid. And let's face it compared to other MMO's FFXIV's crafting isn't exactly user friendly at first.

I just started playing on this new character, and im enjoying it.

Don't know what all the uproar is about to be honest. Seems it's more that people can't adapt to the new way to play, by fighting things their own level for optimal experience gain, and gaining gil is really easy, if you follow the tutorial, it pretty much maps it all out for you.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Really?

*Searches the description of Conjurer for the part that says I have to level weaver, alchemist and carpenter to level it*

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last i checked crafting (made up of content and mechanics) was a part of the game, is it so alien that people actually at the very least attempt it; especially considering how easy crafting has been made.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

So let's keep spreading misconceptions then? You're smart.

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"There's nothing wrong with low levels because I said so, because I didn't have any problems with them."

No, let's just keep ignoring everyone else and create a game for Betelgeuzah to play, because he's enjoying it and so should everyone else who doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Betelgeuzah, it's time to stop posting. You're just coming off as an arrogant prick doling out shitty advice at this point, and there are enough of those on the forums as it is since the patch hit.

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I think he's just as frustrated as you are. He's frustrated at the community for being so blissfully ignorant about the nature of the patch and the inability of the community to adapt to a new set of gameplay restrictions and features.

And you're frustrated because it seems like no matter what, some people are so stubbornly set in their praise of such frustrating and boring features that they come off as being stuck in some sort of ancient way of thinking where dull grind counts as a viable feature. Like they don't want the game to evolve or support the meatier parts of the game and instead fall in favor with chewing on the bones.

From what I can tell.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

I just started playing on this new character, and im enjoying it.

Don't know what all the uproar is about to be honest. Seems it's more that people can't adapt to the new way to play, by fighting things their own level for optimal experience gain, and gaining gil is really easy, if you follow the tutorial, it pretty much maps it all out for you.

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Again, thread was started by someone who has no previous experience with the game. How would they have to adapt to a 'new' way of playing?

If they tested the content before releasing it they could have dealt with these sort of things.

I general I pro-patch 1.19. I just don't like that the early levels scare away new players. I don't mind that going from level 1 - 10 can be done in a couple of hours. New players needs to be properly introduced to how the game works or most of them won't play the game. With the upcoming PS2 release SE needs to able to keep new players playing the game or the PS3 release will fail together with the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Again, thread was started by someone who has no previous experience with the game. How would they have to adapt to a 'new' way of playing?

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To be fair, she actually started two weeks before the patch.

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Originally Posted by Bled

god forbid people use intended content and mechanics.

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I NEVER cradfted in FFXI...and I would HATE this game if I was forced to take crafting up before leveling the stuff I like.

Sir, you are so wrong its not even funny.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

"There's nothing wrong with low levels because I said so, because I didn't have any problems with them."

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While you keep telling me to be productive and relevant, at the same time you ignore everything I say.

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Instead, one could draw attention to the real problems of low level experience, for example, lack of tutorial explaining how the Marketplace and Retainers function, the now-useless level 1 leves drawing attention away from the actual mechanics of leveling post-1.19 and the currently short supply of low level equipment, even though it is both easy and cheap to make due to the changes. Although most of these issues are a part of learning the game mechanics and not part of the actual game mechanics (which are fine, as demonstrated above).

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In other words "there's nothing wrong" amirite?

Everyone who plays the game right shouldn't have problems at all. In the meantime, those who play wrong will face issues. Yes, I think we should ignore those who play the game wrong, aside from offering advice which they then choose to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I think he's just as frustrated as you are. He's frustrated at the community for being so blissfully ignorant about the nature of the patch and the inability of the community to adapt to a new set of gameplay restrictions and features.

And you're frustrated because it seems like no matter what, some people are so stubbornly set in their praise of such frustrating and boring features that they come off as being stuck in some sort of ancient way of thinking where dull grind counts as a viable feature. Like they don't want the game to evolve or support the meatier parts of the game and instead fall in favor with chewing on the bones.

From what I can tell.

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Oddly enough, I actually love this patch. I get great xp, I always have a party because I'm in an awesome linkshell, and I've made tons of gil. Hell, I went from 47 to 49 and a half today alone and I spent the majority (easily 80% of my time in game) of my day doing Bowl of Embers Hard mode.

I'm just disappointed that lower level players have been left to figure it out and fend for themselves so to speak.

I like that the thread creator is leaving this game for Aion, good luck soloing there, you'll need it...

And back on topic, I've found on alternate characters that the leveling system after 1.19 is much harder, whereas I could do leves at high difficulties previously, I now can only do them with the mobs at the same or a slightly higher level than me. I don't think the new system is slow though, by any stretch of the imagination. With exp chains, linking and the fast rate you should in theory be able to kill mobs around your level it's actually much better than previously.

If the TC was really having trouble killing mobs around their level with two friends, I'd suggest that they check what they're doing. Maybe level up some more classes for skills, the first few levels go so quickly and ensure that all their equipped gear is level appropriate.

All games have learning curves MMOs have huge ones. You just gotta be patient till you figure things out. Nobody becomes amazing over night. That and if you just recently started this patch even for veterans makes this game like a whole new game.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

All games have learning curves MMOs have huge ones. You just gotta be patient till you figure things out. Nobody becomes amazing over night. That and if you just recently started this patch even for veterans makes this game like a whole new game.

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The problem is that a lot of people are just going to walk away, and that's a problem if SE wants to attract more customers later. Especially because SE is rather notorious even in the MMO world for extremely high learning curves. Most people aren't going to sit around for 20 or 30 levels waiting for the curve to even out.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

The problem is that a lot of people are just going to walk away, and that's a problem if SE wants to attract more customers later. Especially because SE is rather notorious even in the MMO world for extremely high learning curves. Most people aren't going to sit around for 20 or 30 levels waiting for the curve to even out.

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The learning curve I was speaking of is playing the game in general. There are so many systems in this game...and there are so many changes...

The game will attract new players just fine...especially those waiting for PS3 release.

The problem most people have is the mode of which they are thinking. They thinking patches are just making small changes. SEs patches for FFXIV have been essentially we rewriting this game from scratch patches. Those major sweeping changes are coming in pockets until that's done. Yoshida said they only at about the 50% mark. It's been a year...it'll take many many more months b4 it's where Yoshida wants the game. We should all expect the changes...veterans of the game already do...newbies well I welcome you all to the trials and tribulations.

I do hope SE doesn't look too deeply into these forums. Complaints really come from the minority. If you see any forum structure out there it's always people complaining. Look at Youtube...LOL

In any event negative posts affect people especially the people working on the product with passion and we should encourage them. Yoshida's team is doing things right...People just need to calm down. This is why I wish the game would be pay to play now. And then when it's ready for prime time and PS3 they'd give a few months free to let the crowd see the game in it's glory.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I think he's just as frustrated as you are. He's frustrated at the community for being so blissfully ignorant about the nature of the patch and the inability of the community to adapt to a new set of gameplay restrictions and features.

And you're frustrated because it seems like no matter what, some people are so stubbornly set in their praise of such frustrating and boring features that they come off as being stuck in some sort of ancient way of thinking where dull grind counts as a viable feature. Like they don't want the game to evolve or support the meatier parts of the game and instead fall in favor with chewing on the bones.

From what I can tell.

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What frustrates me most is seeing people complain about not being able to kill anything, even at their own level, and the only thing they're being told is "You're doing something wrong." The immediate reaction is to assume that the individual is using the wrong gear, and if that turns out to be false, they're pretty much out of ideas at that point. We had a guy in our LS earlier today who quit to go to the Besaid server because the advice being given to him by a guy in our LS was essentially "Check your gear," "You're fighting the wrong mobs," "You need to do chains," "You're not playing right." You could tell both of them were getting frustrated because the experienced player didn't seem to get that the inexperienced player might not be as proficient as they were in regards to what abilities to equip and when and how to use them, and the inexperienced player was making this abundantly clear. "You're doing something wrong." It's retarded.

Instead of simply telling people that they're "doing something wrong," you need to figure out just what's going wrong, especially if their gear and such already checks out. Are they using food? Do they have the right abilities? What kind of mobs are they fighting? Are there better mobs that they could be fighting in another area? Enough generalizations; they're useless in diagnosing the real issues.

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Everyone who plays the game right shouldn't have problems at all. In the meantime, those who play wrong will face issues. Yes, I think we should ignore those who play the game wrong, aside from offering advice which they then choose to ignore.

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This shit. This shit right here. Stop that.

It's amusing, go in game, tonnes of people online, chat is filled with people loving the patch, and yet as always, the forum is festering with complaints, which is good and all, but more and more as this game goes on, I see the people ingame happily playing, and the only ones who come here are those who can't proffer attention outside of the gaming world.

You see the same things on the WoW forums too, the very small vocal minority spend their time raging on every forum thread they can find about how the game doesn't live up to their standards, and yet the huge majority of players are ingame playing with dragons and spells.

U mad?

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

The problem is that a lot of people are just going to walk away, and that's a problem if SE wants to attract more customers later. Especially because SE is rather notorious even in the MMO world for extremely high learning curves. Most people aren't going to sit around for 20 or 30 levels waiting for the curve to even out.

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Your exactly right, in this day and age MMO's like WoW that are so blindly easy are what makes the coin... The larger amount of gamers from the newer generation are not used to things being hard... I've seen my nephews complain about a game being impossible to beat, and too hard... where i have just walked up grabbed the controller and after 5 mins of getting familiar with the game i just blast thru... Now days i look forward to games like dark souls cause i know there's gonna be a challenge and that there will be a learning curve... i don't like to pick up a game and have complete understanding and "1337" skills at it after 5 mins... I actually welcome this patch, but at the same time i think 1-20 should be about teaching you how the game works and giving you a direction... a steep learning curve with today's gamers is a major buzz kill...

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

You see the same things on the WoW forums too, the very small vocal minority spend their time raging on every forum thread they can find about how the game doesn't live up to their standards, and yet the huge majority of players are ingame playing with dragons and spells.

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What i see on WoW most is Elitist complaining it ain't hard enough and wanting more content yesterday...

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Originally Posted by Quanta

<Heartfelt Exposition>

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So basically, you're afraid we're going to be chasing people away by telling them that they're incompetent? That people like Betelgeuzah bring down new players by telling them they're not smart enough to do it because he's looking at things from a cold generalizing perspective rather than a more caring person to person angle?

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Originally Posted by Sylvari

What i see on WoW most is Elitist complaining it ain't hard enough and wanting more content yesterday...

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I think the Lodestone copied WoW's forums. =/

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Originally Posted by Gramul

So basically, you're afraid we're going to be chasing people away by telling them that they're incompetent? That people like Betelgeuzah bring down new players by telling them they're not smart enough to do it because he's looking at things from a cold generalizing perspective rather than a more caring person to person angle?

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If new players come here looking for advice, I'm not going to bash them.

If level 50 players come here with their head-up-in-their-ass-attitude telling the devs to FIX THE IMAGINARY PROBLEM, I am not going to be nice.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If new players come here looking for advice, I'm not going to bash them.

If level 50 players come here with their head-up-in-their-ass-attitude telling the devs to FIX THE IMAGINARY PROBLEM, I am not going to be nice.

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Making the game enjoyable for the average low level newbie is TOTALLY an imaginary problem.

You should seriously considering taking a position with SE, your ideas are so in synch.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Making the game enjoyable for the average low level newbie is TOTALLY an imaginary problem.

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I already explained why your problems are imaginary and also explained the real problems. There's nothing more to say, unless you want to argue against them or provide solutions to the real problems but that's pretty simple act.

Can you stop being so upset now?

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Originally Posted by Sylvari

Your exactly right, in this day and age MMO's like WoW that are so blindly easy are what makes the coin... The larger amount of gamers from the newer generation are not used to things being hard... I've seen my nephews complain about a game being impossible to beat, and too hard... where i have just walked up grabbed the controller and after 5 mins of getting familiar with the game i just blast thru... Now days i look forward to games like dark souls cause i know there's gonna be a challenge and that there will be a learning curve... i don't like to pick up a game and have complete understanding and "1337" skills at it after 5 mins... I actually welcome this patch, but at the same time i think 1-20 should be about teaching you how the game works and giving you a direction... a steep learning curve with today's gamers is a major buzz kill...

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Exactly my thoughts... I can't even stand playing games on anything below hard or very hard difficulties these days. (Even then, most games are an utter joke LoL) People just wanna zerg through everything in all games nowadays, heck even critics mostly play on easy in games yet they'll actually evaluate that aspect in the games they review >.< There's simply some stuff you don't "see" when playing stuff easier and it dumbs you down so much. These people want quick and easy with no learning curve and mixing that with people like myself who actually don't wanna play another braindead mmo like WoW... well... let's just say these 2 crowds don't really mix xD

Aside from that... don't expect starting gear to last you to 1-20 anymore! Also notice that equipping higher level gear now pretty much makes it so it gives almost no stats at all!!! May as well be naked >.< LoL Also it should be common sense that with a game with cross class skills you'd want to aquire your cures and buffs first to ease said battles :P

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Originally Posted by Gramul

So basically, you're afraid we're going to be chasing people away by telling them that they're incompetent? That people like Betelgeuzah bring down new players by telling them they're not smart enough to do it because he's looking at things from a cold generalizing perspective rather than a more caring person to person angle?

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Just brings to mind "Give it to me straight Doc." Why dance around and waste time when you can get to the point.... give me "cold generalizing perspective" any day!...

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Originally Posted by Irana

I NEVER cradfted in FFXI...and I would HATE this game if I was forced to take crafting up before leveling the stuff I like.

Sir, you are so wrong its not even funny.

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Yes I'm wrong, crafting is imaginary content and not in any way intended to be used... Just like 90% of the population who dose not use stocks outside of their retirement that bit** and moan about being poor. The people of these forums bit** and moan about gear and money yet refuse to use the given mechanics to solve said problem.

People are getting so ignorant/lazy and posting without a care or thought in the world, it is getting down right embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Yes I'm wrong, crafting is imaginary content and not in any way intended to be used... Just like 90% of the population who dose not use stocks outside of their retirement that bitch and moan about being poor. The people of these forums bitch and moan about gear and money yet refuse to use the given mechanics to solve said problem.

People are getting so ignorant/lazy and posting without a care or thought in the world, it is getting down right embarrassing.

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If they don't enjoy participating in that form of content, you telling them they're lazy isn't really a good argument. I never crafted a single thing in XI because I couldn't stand it. I felt like I had to do some type of ritualistic dance every time I synth'd because the direction you face and the moon and the color of your pants and ughh, I hated it. But in a game like FFXI you could get by without crafting fairly easily because the market was always saturated with gear of all levels. I hope that's what happens here, but it seems the crafters have no desire to synth the low level gear. I guess time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

If they don't enjoy participating in that form of content, you telling them they're lazy isn't really a good argument. I never crafted a single thing in XI because I couldn't stand it. I felt like I had to do some type of ritualistic dance every time I synth'd because the direction you face and the moon and the color of your pants and ughh, I hated it. But in a game like FFXI you could get by without crafting fairly easily because the market was always saturated with gear of all levels. I hope that's what happens here, but it seems the crafters have no desire to synth the low level gear. I guess time will tell.

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Buying into completely unverified paranoid conspiracy theories about direction influencing synth success is kind of your own problem, not the game having an issue.

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Originally Posted by SodaPop

Buying into completely unverified paranoid conspiracy theories about direction influencing synth success is kind of your own problem, not the game having an issue.

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When you risk blowing up several million gil worth of materials, you'll believe in anything that people claim helps. That wasn't the point of my post anyways.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

When you risk blowing up several million gil worth of materials, you'll believe in anything that people claim helps. That wasn't the point of my post anyways.

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Just trying to say that's kind of the same thing as bitching about things that only you can fix, essentially what you were saying the forums as a whole need to stop doing.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

but it seems the crafters have no desire to synth the low level gear. I guess time will tell.

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Weirdly enough I synthed several low level weapons for different classes yesterday, but none of them has sold in the past 24 hours. Prices are somewhere between 10 and 20k, depending on the weapon and it's level. They were the cheapest on the market when I put them up, not sure if they've been heavily undercutted by now though.

So either new players don't know how to actually use the market wards or they're expecting me to hand them out free. Of course 10-20k gil might seem like a lot, but my charater is quite new as well, and I had to buy shit like low level shield, which was 40k at the time and other similar stuff and it wasn't really a problem.

Sadly it's no real use to sell stuff for 5k or under, because even 10k feels like it's really nothing at all with the current economy. But yeah, what comes to the desire to make lower level gear, at least I like making some, but pricing seems to be an issue.

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Originally Posted by SodaPop

Just trying to say that's kind of the same thing as bitching about things that only you can fix, essentially what you were saying the forums as a whole need to stop doing.

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Just ignore that sentence then. I wasn't bitching about it. I was poking fun at it.

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Originally Posted by Sylvari

What i see on WoW most is Elitist complaining it ain't hard enough and wanting more content yesterday...

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The irony on this post critted me for 9001 :(

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Originally Posted by PaynesGrey

So either new players don't know how to actually use the market wards or they're expecting me to hand them out free. Of course 10-20k gil might seem like a lot, but my charater is quite new as well, and I had to buy shit like low level shield, which was 40k at the time and other similar stuff and it wasn't really a problem.

Sadly it's no real use to sell stuff for 5k or under, because even 10k feels like it's really nothing at all with the current economy. But yeah, what comes to the desire to make lower level gear, at least I like making some, but pricing seems to be an issue.

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This might be a problem with people being unfamiliar with currency in FF games.
10.000 gil may seem like a very expensive price to someone who has only played RPGs where starter items tend to cost a few copper. A perception issue, if you will.

I played since beta and I can honestly say, this patch is not fun AT ALL. Why? I'm a casual gamer, i.e. have other things to do better than wasting 2~3 hours of my schedule shouting or asking people to PT.

I enjoyed the solo aspect of FFXIV and now 1.19 killed it.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

If they don't enjoy participating in that form of content, you telling them they're lazy isn't really a good argument. I never crafted a single thing in XI because I couldn't stand it. I felt like I had to do some type of ritualistic dance every time I synth'd because the direction you face and the moon and the color of your pants and ughh, I hated it. But in a game like FFXI you could get by without crafting fairly easily because the market was always saturated with gear of all levels. I hope that's what happens here, but it seems the crafters have no desire to synth the low level gear. I guess time will tell.

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No I'm telling them there lazy if they are QQing about gear and money problems but refuse to look for ways to optimize and solve those solutions; fits the definition of lazy to the T. I do agree that a majority of these problems are cause by an unstable game economy atm.