Still none of the needed changes?

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Originally Posted by Kumori_Kumo

Wheeling thrust is still annoying. It never won't be. It's just like how Jump makes you more vulnerable, not less. It's not game-breaking, it just sucks some of the fun out as opposed to when I play Warrior where I just do everything and win forever.

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You have either unwittingly or with great literary tact; described the current problem.

People do not care for challenge or mastery; only success. There was a time when failure tempered success, this is no longer the current mentality.

DRGs don't deserve to come on here and complain... You're the best DPS in the game right now, and there is no problem with your rotation or whatever.

Remove BoTD because of mechanics that you can't control? Ever heard of Greased Lightning and Enochian?

At least BoTD can be kept/reapplied really easy. If you know the fight (which you should), you can adapt your rotation so that you have plenty of time to reapply BoTD. On top of that, you can save the actual BoTD ability, and use it to regain it when it's safe. Don't come here and complain when you have that...

Don't know what you are trying to say about GK... why do you care that it has 10 sec CD? doesn't really matter, and the potency isn't balanced towards using it every 10 sec. You want them to increase the potency and make DRG even more OP?

Wheeling and Fang isn't the best design in the game, and you could argue that they could have done something better with it, but it's really easy to master, and DRG already got some awesome abilities anyway. No need to come onto the forum and make a rage post about that.

EDIT: I can't stress enough how important it is to know the fights you do... Even if there is some random element to the fight, you have to put in some effort and know when you should hold off on using GK/BoTD, or maybe it's a DPS increase to take the risk of losing it, I don't know, but you need to know the fight.

If you're talking about non-raid content that doesn't matter in that sense.... well... welcome to the club. We MNK's have had to go through that since 2.0.

What are you complaining about? my first 60 was summoner. They have to maintain aetherflow, aethertrail attunement, 3 dots per enemy, and a pet. now ive switched to dragoon as my main, and here are my thoughts about these things of yours.

fang/wheeling being rng determined is one of the best things. Keeps you thinking how you need to move, and keeps the animations less repetitive.

BoTD is a timer that is EASILY maintained by anyone who actually bothers to learn mechanics and apply themselves to the fight. If you cant do those things, well then you dont deserve the buff. When it does rarely drop, a good dragoon will have it already off cooldown ready to be activated the moment the are in animation for vorpal thrust or disembowl.

GK is a powerful ability you weave into your oGCD times, WHEN you know you have the time on the timer to spare. General rule of thumb is if you have 21+ seconds of BotD when you've started your FT/CT combo you can weave in a GK.

You lose the timer because you need to actually learn how to play with the ability. The timer actually makes you work. Building stacks is ungodly boring playwise. as for the supposed "long" cooldown on BotD, the most powerful summoner abilities (Bane,Fester,Painflare) are locked behind an ability with the same cooldown that gives them 3.

TL;DR

STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT MAKES THE CLASS ACTUALLY FUN, AND GIT GUD!

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Originally Posted by Kumori_Kumo

As someone who has mastered this new rotation... no, it's still no additional amounts of fun. No amount of hilarious posturing on how spoiled everyone is and how they don't want to suffer in this video game they pay every month to play can ever change the fact that it's an annoyance by design. Speed bumps are sometimes necessary, but nobody likes driving over them- if you did, you'd be a giant weirdo.

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Fun is completely subjective as is annoyance. So actually it does change the "fact" because its not an objective statement to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Pedantics

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Alright, you explain to me why it's supposed to be random then, if not to intentionally slow the player down? Explain what machination that exact mechanic- the random choosing between one move or another- is supposed to serve other than being an inconvenience.

Edit: Also, I wanna point out, at no point am I saying this part of the class needs to change. It's an obvious design choice to gate lots of DPS behind frustrating and difficult mechanics. I'm just saying that it's foolish not to recognize these things for what they are. You can be satisfied with having conquered something, but that's not the same as having a class where all the mechanics work together rather than against the player. People are going to be disappointed when skill floors drift out of their reach, and though that doesn't necessitate a hard change, it is good to remember when declaring that people are just lazy or whatever.

I'm still bothered by Armor Crusher and Huton personally. I can time Enochian well on my BLM and save it in the 1 second before it falls off with a Blizzard IV or a Fire to keep up Fire 3, but I've had it happen quite a lot leveling my NIN where there will be 1~2 seconds left on Huton, I do Armor Crusher, and Huton falls off right before it connects and then Armor Crusher does not renew it. Not sure why it can't renew it if you execute'ed it while Huton was still in effect, it works like that when I throw a fireball on BLM and it renews Astral Fire, and there's even more travel time because of magic obviously for latency and such.

The reason Armor Crush doesn't refresh Huton with 1-2 seconds left (most likely 1 second here) is because it doesn't refresh until the animation is complete (or until the knives hit the target) and that takes about 1 second to happen. Fix would be to refresh Huton when you hit the ability, not sure if that is necessarily doable.

Yep kinda PO'd about zero nin changes.

Our tp expenditure is bad because of huton, and you put our worst stat Skillspeed on every piece of gear almost.


When can we be expecting a fix to this crap?

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Originally Posted by Craiger

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I think most dragoons realize our class is pretty damn good right now lol. Like our class is perfect, the people complaining just haven't gotten used to the changes. Ask Dervy or any of the people in the dragoon thread, we mostly just talk about savage accuracy caps, you'll hardly find any complaints listed in there. Ninjas I feel for them, because lag is annoying for me but it isn't as bad a factor for them. Congratulations to all the monks by the way for your new changes, look forward to competing for dps with you guys.

Neverreap for me either
not the second boss
but the last
the "trollnados" always target me, and always stick with me no matter where i run
yet, i have to agree with OP about Fang & Claws, Wheeling
they are identical just different positioning, it is not challenging but lazy and stupid design

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

The reason Armor Crush doesn't refresh Huton with 1-2 seconds left (most likely 1 second here) is because it doesn't refresh until the animation is complete (or until the knives hit the target) and that takes about 1 second to happen. Fix would be to refresh Huton when you hit the ability, not sure if that is necessarily doable.

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That is how greased lightning refresh works now, so I would not see why not.

we are very good in DPS view of point
but i wont change
making 2 identical skill as 2 "new" skill a lazy design
we dont need a DPS or buff timer change
but we do need some change to that 2 skills, so they both have their own meaning and usefulness
not just sucking up 2 slots with RNG for pure development laziness

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

we are very good in DPS view of point
but i wont change
making 2 identical skill as 2 "new" skill a lazy design
we dont need a DPS or buff timer change
but we do need some change to that 2 skills, so they both have their own meaning and usefulness
not just sucking up 2 slots with RNG for pure development laziness

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And just how are they gonna magically change those 2 skills without affecting DRG dps performance?

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Originally Posted by Ephier

That is how greased lightning refresh works now, so I would not see why not.

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Yes exactly, I haven't touched my MNK much since before 3.0 and I loved how I could drop GL 3 and be in an animation and pick it right back up if my timing was right, that doesn't work on NIN with Huton and it would be nice if they could change this for NIN so it works better.

this is what happen with their laziness
if that two skills were done properly before release, this is not an issue to be concern
they can simply lower 1 skill potency yet add a buff/debuff effect on that skill to compensate
then we have 2 skills that are meaningful and still remain RNG positioning, wont affect the whole rotation much either