Collective Unconcious

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

08-07-2015, 07:21 AM
Geardagas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Common sense playing a game? Common sense would tell me to stop even attempting to defend against the wall of trash threads coming up against a job that is fantastic minus the nerf to stance dancing.

And I do not have to be a scholar or white mage to know what my current strength is compared to them because I can see myself side by side with them.

Yes, but you can't see how good your raid would be without you.

Man, do the ast fanboys have any substance to their claims? Like, at all?
08-07-2015, 07:33 AM
Galdous

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geardagas

Yes, but you can't see how good your raid would be without you.

Man, do the ast fanboys have any substance to their claims? Like, at all?

Taking this a bit personal aren't you? You seem to be trolling and ridiculing every post that does not support you. It weakens your arguments.
08-07-2015, 07:34 AM
Ghishlain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

I did not say you did. I am confused as to why you are trying to put us into two camps as well. Pro Astro and Anti Astro? Is this a new page in your debate 101 to try to gain a new edge? And I have already gone into groups with people on my server who have whispered me wanting me to put up or shut up. I will gladly invite anyone to parse against training dummies and do a 5 minute run with and without my buffs in whatever scenario you wish to persue. And I have nothing against you since you have put up convincing arguments in the past that I have found turning my mind on some items in the past.

And in all honestly it is normally the job of the prosecutor to bring overwhelming evidence against those who are defending a job that does not need to be defended. Astro/Whitemage/Scholar bring there own strengths and the one thing people are not even mentioning is astro buffs will continue to scale exponentially while the scholar will only receive gradual increases in strength from gearflation. Our buff is a universal enhancing buff that scales incredibly well.

Vlady, I think most posters on this forum will agree with me - we as the healer community have given you overwhelming evidence about why you're wrong in your assessment about AST.

I'll just throw a few more out there.

Let's assume perfect RNG and say you pull Balance every single possible time. Other cards may give DPS increases but nothing is as direct and powerful as Balance.

Balance is 10% Damage Increase for 15s every 30 seconds. This averages out to about a 5% increase over the course of the entire fight. Say we liberally boost that value to 7.5% for other considerations like Time Dilation, Celestial Opposition, using Balance during a burst phase, etc.

Let's consider two quotes you've posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

If you time balance just right it can improve a dragoons dps by 400 du ring it's run.

If Balance is a 7.5% DPS increase over the course of a run and that DPS got a 400 DPS boost during that time frame, that DRG would of have to be doing 5333 DPS during their burst phase.

Tell me... what DRG in the current ilvl can do 5333 DPS for 30 seconds in their burst phase?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

along with arrow/balance/spear on my brother who plays a machinist he normally clocks another 150-160 dps through an entire run

If Balance is on average 7.5% DPS increase over the course of a run and that DPS got a 150-160 DPS boost, the MCN in question would need to be doing 2,000 to 2,133 over the course of the run.

Again, tell me, what MCN can consistently do 2,000 to 2,133 DPS?

Your move Vlady. Either put up or settle down and admit you're wrong. We don't need to be on your server for you to put out parse numbers and on top of that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2 and by luck I'm on Balmung so hit me up because I just do not see how even combined they can make up for the lost DPS I provide, let alone the mitigation, healing and buffs I can provide coupled with a WHM. Truly, I would LOVE to speak with them.

I think this poster is still waiting for a response from you, perhaps? I'd like to hear it from his side too if he has joined you for some testing.
08-07-2015, 07:35 AM
TatoRazzino

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

Taking this a bit personal aren't you? You seem to be trolling and ridiculing every post that does not support you. It weakens your arguments.

He says "fanboys" have no claims, but he called me a liar for saying that I can use Synastry for preys in A1S. He didn't bring any evidence to support his claim that it was impossible, said I was playing a different game and whatever. He hasn't even done the fight (or is not paying attention to it) to know that the prey mechanics happen every 2 minutes, making it possible to use Synastry for every single one of them. He's just a troll, like a lot of others in this forum, trying to bash a job he's prolly too unskilled to play.
08-07-2015, 07:36 AM
Vlady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Vlady, I think most posters on this forum will agree with me - we as the healer community have given you overwhelming evidence about why you're wrong in your assessment about AST.

I'll just throw a few more out there.

Let's assume perfect RNG and say you pull Balance every single possible time. Other cards may give DPS increases but nothing is as direct and powerful as Balance.

Balance is 10% Damage Increase for 15s every 30 seconds. This averages out to about a 5% increase over the course of the entire fight. Say we liberally boost that value to 7.5% for other considerations like Time Dilation, Celestial Opposition, using Balance during a burst phase, etc.

Let's consider two quotes you've posted:

If Balance is a 7.5% DPS increase over the course of a run and that DPS got a 400 DPS boost during that time frame, that DRG would of have to be doing 5333 DPS during their burst phase.

Tell me... what DRG in the current ilvl can do 5333 DPS for 30 seconds in their burst phase?

If Balance is on average 7.5% DPS increase over the course of a run and that DPS got a 150-160 DPS boost, the MCN in question would need to be doing 2,000 to 2,133 over the course of the run.

Again, tell me, what MCN can consistently do 2,000 to 2,133 DPS?

Your move Vlady. Either put up or settle down and admit you're wrong. We don't need to be on your server for you to put out parse numbers and on top of that:

I think this poster is still waiting for a response from you, perhaps? I'd like to hear it from his side too if he has joined you for some testing.

Making stuff up alone discredits you and you have argued intelligently in the past to resort to lowering yourself this much Ghis. Please stop while you have any street cred left please.

Double astro in savage 2? I never once said I know of any double astro teams in SAVAGE 2.? I think I am waiting for a response of where you are pulling this made up bs out of your ass.

Also I am starting to think there are cropping up people who are tired of this bs being spewed from the astro sucks threads and are starting to fight back. Oh wait. Go on the Japanese forum that so many people claim that JP is talking about how badly astro is in a bad spot. The original 300 pages of posts were from before the buffs astro's got a few weeks back. The rest post buff seem more around the astrologians artifact gear looks...
08-07-2015, 07:44 AM
Ghishlain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Making stuff up alone discredits you and you have argued intelligently in the past to resort to lowering yourself this much Ghis. Please stop while you have any street cred left please.

Double astro in savage 2? I never once said I know of any double astro teams in SAVAGE 2.? I think I am waiting for a response of where you are pulling this made up bs out of your ass.

The poster in question probably misinterpreted this quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

I double astro heal A1-A4 without issue all the time.

When he made his post. As you claiming to use double AST in Savage, and I know even you wouldn't consider that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Even I know savage is not kind to double astro.

But hey, this is what you're good at. Avoiding the issue at hand by straw manning one very particular minor flaw in someone's argument. It still didn't change the fact he asked to go along with you to see your capabilities, now does it?

Try again, please. Please, post these parses you have of these Godly DPS increases. Hot potato is still in your hands, Vlady.

====================

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Making stuff up alone discredits you . . .

. . .I think I am waiting for a response of where you are pulling this made up bs out of your ass.

You should probably look in a mirror.
08-07-2015, 07:50 AM
Vlady

Oh hey. Since when is A1-A4 savage mode? No I would not use double astro for savage mode the same i wouldnt use double scholar either. Too much stepping on each other's toes. Still waiting for your answer when did I say I know of double astro in Savage? You seem to know I said a1-14 as normal but you oddly seem to echo the guy's question despite knowing I did not say that. You doubling down on your own false statement just blew your ability to argue about validity of any claim you make on astro strength.
08-07-2015, 07:51 AM
Ghishlain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Oh hey. Since when is A1-A4 savage mode? No I would not use double astro for savage mode the same i wouldnt use double scholar either. Too much stepping on each other's toes. Still waiting for your answer when did I say I know of double astro in Savage? You seem to know I said a1-14 as normal but you oddly seem to echo the guy's question despite knowing I did not say that. You doubling down on your own false statement just blew your ability to argue about validity of any claim you make on astro strength.

So, when are you going to answer the rest of the post? *Taps ruler against palm impatiently* Oh, wait, never, because you won't - like how you've always dodged every issue and refute that has come against you.

You can only defend against the "obvious". You can only defend against the one minor flaw I left in my argument for you to actually STEP ON because you have no actual evidence or refute or counter to the rest of my post.

GG.
08-07-2015, 07:55 AM
Vlady

Why did you even quote that when you know what I meant? You brought it up not me. Why do I have to answer what is obvious the answer is to you? Tit for tat much? No I also shot down a claim about the japanese forums are up in arms with how weak astrologians are supposedly.

Most of that was before the buffs. I also told you I am not a math numbers person so will not defend your napkin math when you would step all over me on that lol. You also do not factor in most dps are melee oriented and more then likely you will get either arrow/balance/spire which provides more then just a 7% when you actually parse enough to get an average.
08-07-2015, 08:07 AM
Whiteroom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Why did you even quote that when you know what I meant? You brought it up not me. Why do I have to answer what is obvious the answer is to you? Tit for tat much?

TBH, you are avoiding the core of his post. The numbers. I'm actually quite interested to see them, since I have felt a bit underwhelmed by the cards until this point. Being able to increase someone's output by 400 is huge, like omfgastroisgreat!
08-07-2015, 08:14 AM
Ghishlain

Vlady, if this is the only issue you have against me in this entire thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2 and by luck I'm on Balmung so hit me up because I just do not see how even combined they can make up for the lost DPS I provide, let alone the mitigation, healing and buffs I can provide coupled with a WHM. Truly, I would LOVE to speak with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2 and by luck I'm on Balmung so hit me up because I just do not see how even combined they can make up for the lost DPS I provide, let alone the mitigation, healing and buffs I can provide coupled with a WHM. Truly, I would LOVE to speak with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2

I rest my case about you and every single supposed retort / refute you've ever made in this forum.

Good night, sir. Happy trolling.
08-07-2015, 08:15 AM
Galdous

Amazing how every thread derails so easily.. But even in the best case scenarios the highest burst ive ever seen in a 15-20 second window for a dragoon is around the 2200-2500 mark for just a few seconds and even then you would at most only provide 230 dps with a 10% balance card. It is more likely 170-180 while the dragoon had all of his buffs up in a raid with full raid buffs. Where did 400 come from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Vlady, if this is the only issue you have in this entire thread:

I rest my case about you and every single supposed retort / refute you've ever made in this forum.

Good night, sir. Happy trolling.

Lol. Why does he have to defend something he never even said. That sorta nulls him even having to answer questions that are misinformed to begin with.
How can you rest your case against a misunderstanding at most and at worse a fabrication and or lie. I would stick with his 400 dps claim and let that be. But I have seen a parse improvement from being constantly buffed by astrologians over 120. My normal is around 1100 dps but with a machinist who focused arrow/balance/spire with me I was able to improve my personal dps an easy 100+ so he is telling the truth on one account.
08-07-2015, 08:21 AM
Ghishlain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

Lol. Why does he have to defend something he never even said. That sorta nulls him even having to answer questions that are misinformed to begin with.
How can you rest your case against a misunderstanding at most and at worse a fabrication and or lie. I would stick with his 400 dps claim and let that be. But I have seen a parse improvement from being constantly buffed by astrologians over 120. My normal is around 1100 dps but with a machinist who focused arrow/balance/spire with me I was able to improve my personal dps an easy 100+ so he is telling the truth on one account.

I'll respond once more just for you, Gladous.

Show us the parse.

That is all - because I know neither of you will actually post the parse as evidence.
08-07-2015, 08:24 AM
GideonHighmourn

You're still incorrect, Galdous. Your DPS may be 1100, but that doesn't mean an Arrow/Spire/Balance adds 110DPS to an entire encounter. It would add 110DPS for 15 seconds, yes, but even on average, due to up time, it's still only 50-60DPS if you're using Draw on CD and getting Balance every time.

It is 100% incorrect/statistically impossible to say AST adds "on average 150-160DPS to MCH during an entire encounter" or "adds 400DPS to DRGs", which is what Vlady was claiming.
08-07-2015, 08:30 AM
Galdous

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I'll respond once more just for you, Gladous.

Show us the parse.

That is all - because I know neither of you will actually post the parse as evidence.

I honestly dont care whether astro gets nerfed or buffed. I am not going to waste an hour of my time when I do not even know how to break down ACT that shows what buffs you have or have not. I only know what I personally have experience with when being buffed by astrologians in dungeons. Why not you show me a PARSE with an astro buffs showing it does not buff my dps by 100+ over the course of a dungeon? I only came here to point out the hypocrisy you drum down upon someone wanting an answer to a statement that was misinformed then demand he still gives an answer that doesnt exsist because the statement was out right wrong.

Its like looking at a horse and someone says the horse is a dog and wants to know the weight of the dog. That statement makes as much sense as your statement does demanding an answer to a questioned statement that was never said.

And I am honoured you would choose me to respond to just for once.
08-07-2015, 08:32 AM
Vlady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Vlady, if this is the only issue you have against me in this entire thread:

I rest my case about you and every single supposed retort / refute you've ever made in this forum.

Good night, sir. Happy trolling.

Ok I will bite.

I DID NOT SAY THAT SO HOW IS IT RELEVANT. I DID NOT SAY THAT SO HOW IS IT RELEVANT. HOW DID I SAY THAT SO HOW IT IS RELEVANT.

Refute all of your statements that you have been shot down on and I will gladly mince words with you about any other topic.
08-07-2015, 08:36 AM
Whiteroom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

Why not you show me a PARSE with an astro buffs showing it does not buff my dps by 100+ over the course of a dungeon?

Wut?

But seriously, if you claim something, the onus is on you to prove it, not the one questioning it to disprove it.
08-07-2015, 09:04 AM
Aldebaran92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geardagas

Except I can count on one hand the situations where using it wont get your entire raid killed. The ridiculous limitation on it needs to be removed, no questions asked.

And that's why I said "there aren't that many fights where you can safely channel it", please read before you reply. I did not say that you should use it in every fight, in every phase or whatever. I just find it extremely ridiculous to say that it's completely worthless when there are situations where it can be beneficial to use. I believe it does need changes, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth using when applicable in its current state. There are far worse abilities out there (Freeze and Dissipation to name two), if only they had as many complaint threads as CU.
08-07-2015, 09:16 AM
Muahbec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Ok I will bite.

I DID NOT SAY THAT SO HOW IS IT RELEVANT. I DID NOT SAY THAT SO HOW IS IT RELEVANT. HOW DID I SAY THAT SO HOW IT IS RELEVANT.

Refute all of your statements that you have been shot down on and I will gladly mince words with you about any other topic.

Vlady, stop.
Turn away.
Leave.
Thanks :D .
08-07-2015, 10:52 AM
AmiraHargal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Making stuff up alone discredits you and you have argued intelligently in the past to resort to lowering yourself this much Ghis. Please stop while you have any street cred left please.

Double astro in savage 2? I never once said I know of any double astro teams in SAVAGE 2.? I think I am waiting for a response of where you are pulling this made up bs out of your ass.

Also I am starting to think there are cropping up people who are tired of this bs being spewed from the astro sucks threads and are starting to fight back. Oh wait. Go on the Japanese forum that so many people claim that JP is talking about how badly astro is in a bad spot. The original 300 pages of posts were from before the buffs astro's got a few weeks back. The rest post buff seem more around the astrologians artifact gear looks...

Such irony. A post telling people off for making stuff up and you yourself making stuff up. Patch 3.05 went up on 21 July, and on 21 July the Japanese astrologian thread was on page 68. Right now it's on page 198, so that's like... I don't know, 130 page worth of posts since the buff?

Also, if you think that most of the post is about how astrologian AF looks, you should learn Japanese again from the starts. I know Japanese and 90% of the posts there is saying AST sucks currently and protesting that they can't even got into savage progression(they use learning party in their language for progression), let alone try to master the job in Savage. Should I also post a quote from the Japanese thread too and the translation so you won't make stuff up anymore?

I don't mind you defending AST, and I agree that some people exaggerate the problem currently, but at least get your fact straight?

Edit : Also, the math is fine on paper. Even considering balance or arrow up for 100% of the time(which is statistically close to impossible), the most you can get is 5% increase in DPS for single person. Adding time dilation(which is up every 3 cycle of buff, 90s), and the insignificant celestial opposition(5s increase, which is 33% extension on 5 cycle buff, so that's 6.6% buff), the most you can get is (1.4 * 5%) = around 7% increase in DPS for a single person. so for 100 DPS increase, said person has to deal 1428 DPS for 15s every 30s cycle(again, statistically close to impossible for it to be up 100%).

Do I think the buff is insignificant? Absolutely not. My static's BLM(JP person BTW, so I do know JP pretty well) said he feels really good when he got that 10k damage Fire IV crit under balance, and my MNK and DRG does feel the increase in their DPS for every balance they got. Problem is, balance is only up 8.5% of the time(17% * 50% for draw cooldown) statistically, and in the whole big picture, it's an insignificant increase in DPS overall, not to mention we have to use one of the buff(The Ewer) on ourselves mostly in order to not run out of mana.

Is AST unplayable? no, absolutely not. Is it in critical need of buff for Savage? IMO, yes, and it reflects in the community as a whole since there are a lot of people that think it's much much harder to clear savage if they have an AST compared to the SCH WHM combo. In fact, my static subtly asks me to change to SCH because our WHM is swamped with healing tasks when I go AST and can't help the DPS due to the low Accuracy, and my DPS is too insignificant as AST(around 150-200 DPS) to help that much with DPS.
08-07-2015, 09:27 PM
Assirra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Common sense playing a game? Common sense would tell me to stop even attempting to defend against the wall of trash threads coming up against a job that is fantastic minus the nerf to stance dancing.

You have no idea how grateful this forum would be if you did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

stuff.

Oh look, it's the person that said Synastry of all things was OP....

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page