More gender locked clothing

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Oh god here we go again.

Going to attack Square enix till they break down and do what you say, that is really messed up and not fair to others who don't wanna see men prancing around in woman's attire.

Why can't you guys respect that? Not everything needs to go your way, I don't have a issue with how you are the way you dress but why force that onto others who maybe don't wanna see it?

I mean I don't care if girls wear guys stuff but guys wearing girl stuff, pop a fantasia change to a girl less stress on the developers.

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Well, maybe we do wanna see males prancing around in female clothing. Just because YOU don't wanna see it doesn't mean others don't. Stop being so selfish on something that is obviously unfair. Maybe the girls that play this game don't wanna see slutty women running around naked too?

Just learn to appreciate the beauty:
http://i.imgur.com/LFzttNj.jpg

This isn't just entirely about giving male characters dresses. If that's what a player wants, why can't they?

No, the bigger deal is options. There's a ton more style options for people who play female characters, than male characters. I'd like other stuff to glamour. And if they're going to make 2x female only stuff, then I want equivalent amount of male only stuff.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

This isn't just entirely about giving male characters dresses. If that's what a player wants, why can't they?

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I really would love to see people not calling everything that looks a bit more feminine in some ppls eyes a dress.
Dress implies something wrong when talking about a female version of the belly dancer set for instance.

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Originally Posted by Whitemare

I really would love to see people not calling everything that looks a bit more feminine in some ppls eyes a dress.
Dress implies something wrong when talking about a female version of the belly dancer set for instance.

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Except I was entirely referring to a dress, but whatever.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

Except I was entirely referring to a dress, but whatever.

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Was nothing personal. ^^
I understand you used this more as a genaral example.
I just saw how the discussion was shifted esspecially by the haters towards cross-dressing and draq etc. by repeatingly saying "They want to wear female dresses".

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Originally Posted by Whitemare

I really would love to see people not calling everything that looks a bit more feminine in some ppls eyes a dress.
Dress implies something wrong when talking about a female version of the belly dancer set for instance.

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2 things
1) he was talking about a dress


2) dress is the old english word for clothing. so the outfit you wear is a dress, you dress yourself, your dressed in an attire. ect.

also if you say it implies something wrong then you yourself make it wrong :p


also to go back on topic i'mms type a bit more since my last post in this thread was when i was very tired.

1) in my personal tastes i don't think it looks very good but i have been surprised by the amount of male models in this game that pull off a lot of looks , and female outfits is one such thing i would love to see people pose in

2) to the whole skimpy argument, men can war bikinis. men can wear something akin to BDSM gear, and men can also (if they dye it correctly) can turn some items in the game into assess chaps or blur it into there skin tone. to have them wear something akin to a loin cloth is not 'skimpy' it is covering more then other options in the game :P

3) they (se) has stated that the female models would have to be re-tweaked heavily (look at roe's and the new au ra males) meaning if they have started its going to take time to make sure they fit since female bodies are mostly the same in this game a female outfit can fit easily and they would only have to tweak a male outfit once or twice at most. so they may already be at work for a male version but don't wish to say anything as of yet.

4) to the whole IF YOU WANNA HAVE IT PLAY IT peeps, nah, simply nah, i adore the looks of some male only items, would i fantasia into a guy character, nope, why, i love my female character, and for them thats the same thing they want what female characters want but love there men to much to just get rid of them.

and finally 5) i say wait until 3.2 i bet there will be new glamours that people will focus on and they may make this avalable to men then :3


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Originally Posted by Whitemare

Was nothing personal. ^^
I understand you used this more as a genaral example.
I just saw how the discussion was shifted esspecially by the haters towards cross-dressing and draq etc. by repeatingly saying "They want to wear female dresses".

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ah, simple mistake i bet, :3 but dresses in that context is correct since that is the type of garb :D even for men it is dresses you can buy 'men dresses' in the real world that are cut the same way as women dresses.

I wish there was a statistic for how many people are against this that are men playing female characters.

This is a role playing game. Let people play their character however they wish. I've seen men in underwear running around. Why is this any worse?

As a female player, I support this cause. Please, don't limit us in a fantasy game by real world controversy. I play to escape that crap.

For anyone saying SE doesn't want to give men specific effeminate gear...

http://i.imgur.com/auXXQhL.jpg

And if I turn the camera a little... PANTIES!

http://i.imgur.com/8QVVOoV.jpg

So that skirt+panties? The hempen underpants. SE specifically designed those for the male Au Ra. So let's just take the leap and unlock gendered clothing for everyone!

I'm really going to have to get through HW content and experience all this new stuff and add it to my list.

I'm fairly sure at this point SE doesn't give a hoot about male-exclusive sets. That's why they advertise the unisex outfits as male and have male characters wearing them; this way, they can at least pretend they make good on the promise of "more exciting male-exclusive sets", without actually having to do it.

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Originally Posted by BHGlobbd

Because you speak for every male character, right?

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Do you? She never said /all/ male characters want. She said male characters want. As in more than one. And considering the amount of people posting agreements with the OP in this thread who have male avatars, I'd say she's right.
Not every player of female characters wants to dress them in the skimpiest of clothes available, yet such skimpy clothing exists. Not every female character wears the female-only outfits. I don't see how they have any more right to said gear -- after all, it's not every female character who wants them, right?

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Originally Posted by Kelg

Believe it or not, straight males don't exactly enjoy looking at half-naked dudes, it's not really "bigotry". That being said, they should still design gear with both genders in mind, so they don't cater just to female characters.

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It kinda is when the people posting such things then refuse to accept that others don't care to look at their notion of sexy. Or that there's any sort of similarity between their argument and 'I don't want to look at half-naked women'. It's fine to have the opinion of not wanting to see something, but to use that opinion as an argument to try to prevent others from seeing what they want to see... that's not fair.

It's not always straight males who play male characters. It's not always straight women who play female characters. You have people of pretty much every gender and sexuality playing either gender.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

It's not always straight males who play male characters. It's not always straight women who play female characters. You have people of pretty much every gender and sexuality playing either gender.

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It is somehow funny and sad at the same time that there are still people out there that don't get this at all. Your post is on point Noxifer.

Now imagine a gay male player playing a female character dressed up to be the most serious warrior or a lesbian player playing as skimpy dressed male Au Ra coloured in the most bright pastel rainbow colours you can imagine.

Some of the replies in this topic are just.....LOL. You don't want to have to deal with seeing men in showy/skimpy glamors so they cant have them? But it's fine if women are right? Even if females players don't want to see that kind of stuff? The double standard is strong there.

Or wait, the other excuse, "It's not what a normal male would do!" Seriously, but normal females run around in metal thongs and boob plates. Please, the logic is so dead here.

And please don't give me the nonsense about "this is how society is and always has been." That's the kind of logic people used for racism and sexism The world changes and things change. We're even at a changing point now. I'm not saying that FFXIV should be a platform for change, but using that reasoning shouldn't be an excuse to not change. Please come up with a better one.

I don't feel like reading through 10 pages so I might wind up repeating something already said. Sue me, I'm too lazy to check.

This is one of those things that I don't think will ever change. Fantasy game or no, I think it really boils down to the developers bowing to social norms. It isn't common or "normal" for men to wear clothing that was clearly designed for a woman's body, but women wearing "men's" clothing is so commonplace that masculine clothing may as well be renamed 'unisex'. Is it fair? No, not really. But it's reality.

Honestly, this kind of topic will never go away no matter what SE does. If SE leaves things as is, people complain that males don't have enough options. If SE changes it so that males can wear female clothing almost "as is" a lot of people are going to whine that the clothing is too feminine. If SE designs two different versions of the gear, people will still whine about the differences (see: that long, whiny topic about Dragoon's AF). More overall options to bridge the gap between genders would be nice though.

Nevermind.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

I can't help but wonder if most male characters here are females in real life and want to recreate Yaoi scene's.
I've seen enough Anime to know where that is going lol.
Yaoi fangirls rule the world.

Anyway, I say just let everyone wear everything. You already saw a guy in feminine like attire anyways.
You'll get over it. Will not kill you but ultimately up to the dev's. It's just a touchy subject.

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I am pretty meeh at your post for the first part. It's like saying all lala players have something going on about little children and female playing RL males are sure into some hentai stuff etc. Using those cut and dried opinions is just doing nobody justice at all. I think the reasons why x plays y charcter are very very personal and shouldn't be judged in any way. Therefore this is an RPG right?
And using ahh you are part of this stereotypical group and you are surely part of this stereotypical group is bullshit in RL the same as online. So please... no : /

Pls let me be slutty, SE. You're denying the world this fabulous Au Ra body.

Why would you go and do that?

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Originally Posted by Hypie

How can our Garlean emperor take our WoL seriously when he pops up in a female Dress up instead of manly Armor? I think it's the plain "cliche" route here. SE choose it so and yeah thats it.

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By that token, he'd probably mistake a girl in a bikini for the "entertainment" instead of the WoL. How are you gonna take a girl in a barely-there swimsuit and heels seriously even if she is carrying a sword/staff/book/whatever? Some people find it to be very immersion-breaking to see. Does that mean we should do away with bikini glamours?

Your arguments really do sound terribly ignorant and actually borderline discriminatory. Most of them boil down to "this isn't a societal norm and I think it's wrong, therefore we shouldn't have it." You know what? Decades ago it wasn't a "societal norm" for women to show their ankles. It wasn't a societal norm for women to wear pants. Hell, once upon a time pants weren't even a thing. Norms change over time, so it's a pretty weak argument.

You obviously haven't even read a lot of the posts about the subject, either. Most people don't even care about what the male glamour options are, as long as we get options. I know I personally don't care if they make males able to wear feminine clothes or not; there's no political agenda here. The fact is females pretty much get double the glamour options males do, and that's not cool at all. There are very few things that are male exclusive and slews of them that are "girls only." It's not fair to those that play male characters that female characters have their own exclusive glamours plus they get to use ours. As for guys in dresses... we basically have them already:

http://puu.sh/iOamP/1ce47977bb.jpghttp://puu.sh/iOaog/3e5a88fdd2.jpg

Would you seriously find that creepy and send me tells to harass me about it? Cause I'm not gonna lie, I think I rock it and make it look better than most of the girls do. Espeically with the sassy Au Ra poses. :P

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

I can't help but wonder if most male characters here are females in real life and want to recreate Yaoi scene's.
I've seen enough Anime to know where that is going lol.
Yaoi fangirls rule the world.

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I don't think you're far off. I play on the unofficial role-playing server and a lot of women play men and then make them overly feminine. I don't see the appeal myself, personally - I like my men to look and act like men. Each to their own, I guess.

Personally I'm firmly against removing the gender lock purely to appeal to those who want to dress up their male characters in female outfits - I just want some cool male exclusive sets to balance things out.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I don't think you're far off. I play on the unofficial role-playing server and a lot of women play men and then make them overly feminine. I don't see the appeal myself, personally - I like my men to look and act like men. Each to their own, I guess.

Personally I'm firmly against removing the gender lock purely to appeal to those who want to dress up their male characters in female outfits - I just want some cool male exclusive sets to balance things out.

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Ah because men have to be like ...WHAT to be men? Women have to be like what to be considered as women?
By the seven hells can't trust my eyes reading this.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

It kinda is when the people posting such things then refuse to accept that others don't care to look at their notion of sexy. Or that there's any sort of similarity between their argument and 'I don't want to look at half-naked women'. It's fine to have the opinion of not wanting to see something, but to use that opinion as an argument to try to prevent others from seeing what they want to see... that's not fair. It's not always straight males who play male characters. It's not always straight women who play female characters. You have people of pretty much every gender and sexuality playing either gender.

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I was more referring to why people are so outspoken against this. I am actually very aware that people don't play their own character's gender, but I also believe a good sum of the players are indeed male, and straight(which is probably why people are mostly okay with females getting more options than males).

Honestly though, don't care what people do with their character. To each his own.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Snip.

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I wouldn't be so quick to suggest to the first part, but I will agree to the second. Granted I am female playing male, I have done so with most MMOs I have played. Sure I would like more risque options for guys, but it's more of what I am looking for when making an outfit and what I'm in the mood for as I often mix and match.

Besides, Au Ra have such nice scale patterns:

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Pls let me be slutty, SE. You're denying the world this fabulous Au Ra body.

Why would you go and do that?

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Now if only they had the booty to match... It's so flat across the board for guys. x.x


In the end though, I just want equal number of options for my guys as there are for girls. I will take what I can get as far as choices go.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I like my men to look and act like men.

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Why did you choose Midlander then?

Now let's be honest here, is this a real fundamental issue or SJWs at their worst?

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Originally Posted by Kelg

I was more referring to why people are so outspoken against this. I am actually very aware that people don't play their own character's gender, but I also believe a good sum of the players are indeed male, and straight(which is probably why people are mostly okay with females getting more options than males).

Honestly though, don't care what people do with their character. To each his own.

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True, a majority of MMO players are male, though it's far from the 95% majority some people still quote. That may have been the numbers a bunch of years ago, but I think the numbers I saw last were somewhere around 60/40. In general across MMORPG. And if you consider that FFXIV has been said several times (that I've read, at least) to be more attractive to female players compared to other MMORPGs... it's probably more even here than in other games.
(Also, gender measurement doesn't take into consideration either sexuality or aesthetic preferences, and while the societal norm is still 'heterosexual', the societal norm also puts 'gamer' as a minority... *shrugs*)

But yes, I agree with your 'to each his own' (or her own). The problem is that for some of us -- not saying most or even half -- 'his/her own' is unavailable. =/

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Originally Posted by KaijinRhada

Now if only they had the booty to match... It's so flat across the board for guys. x.x

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Unfortunately, as part of the graphical change from 1.0 to 2.0, everyone has a concave ass now.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Why did you choose Midlander then?

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Ouch!

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Originally Posted by Heskett

Now let's be honest here, is this a real fundamental issue or SJWs at their worst?

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Of course not. The vast (vasssttt) majority of gear in this game is gender neutral, with barely any (if any at all) variation between gear for different genders.

Anything that is varied is so minute it's barely even worth mentioning in light of everything else. I can't even think of another MMO at the moment that's as tame as this game is, not a single one.

I saw someone in here try to compare XIV to PSO2, which is taking hyperbole to the level of complete absurdity.


Hey guys, if you want to wear fishnets and heels or whatever, that's super cool, and you have the right to ask. But please, stop trying to slant this argument as if FFXIV is doing you some kind of disservice. It makes it hard for anyone to take you serious.

Society is almost always built around gender roles. It varies between cultures, but it exists. The first step in getting anyone to take you serious is to stop trying to pretend like it isn't a thing.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Why did you choose Midlander then?

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...because you can design them to be conventionally attractive and masculine. They're fairly well built and could easily pass for an athlete/male model/celebrity stud depending on the design.

If you don't think this looks like a guy then I'd strongly suggest getting you eyesight checked out and/or any potential insecurities regarding the concept of masculinity resolved:

http://i.imgur.com/WM1U0xE.png

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Originally Posted by Edellis

I saw someone in here try to compare XIV to PSO2, which is taking hyperbole to the level of complete absurdity.

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That was me. It might be an extreme comparison, but yes, if they continue to give female characters access to everything, and not male characters, it will eventually be like that in terms of vanity gear.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Unfortunately, as part of the graphical change from 1.0 to 2.0, everyone has a concave ass now.

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He's got the booty... in my mind...

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The fact is females pretty much get double the glamour options males do, and that's not cool at all. There are very few things that are male exclusive and slews of them that are "girls only." It's not fair to those that play male characters that female characters have their own exclusive glamours plus they get to use ours. As for guys in dresses... we basically have them already:

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YES EXACTLY, this sums up my reason for posting the thread. Those of us who play male characters do not get a discounted monthly subscription fee because of the gender we selected, nor did the game come with a discounted purchase price based on the gender of our character. But in a way we're getting less content available to us based on that, because the developers are providing a much higher level of accommodation to one mutually exclusive group of people than they are to the other.

It's besides the point to say that most gear works for M/F, because most gear isn't designed for a high profile look. You don't see many people of either gender glamouring their equipment to look like Raptorskin Jackets or Hempen Sarouels. I just visited Gold Saucer to take stock of their glamour apparel options and I counted 13 for male characters, 17 for female... that might seem close at first glance, but divide 13/17 and you'll see male characters only have 75% of the options here. And the ratio is far far less if you take out the generic NPC gear like Riviera Slops that IMO was only put in to boost that ratio of male vs female options from being even lower without significant thought or effort... they just took some regular pants and gender locked them to male to say- see, here you go.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

The first step in getting anyone to take you serious is to stop trying to pretend like it isn't a thing.

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I think I don't need to go down on my knees and crawl aroud and beg for being taken seriously by people like you who act as if I first of all need to act 'normal' in case of gender roles forced by the RL society. It is a fantasy game. We are just asking for being treated equaly in case of glamour options. I think you are enjoying that high horse you pretend to sit on.
Nobody is rude besides those people acting like our opinion is hurting someone lol.

"Wah Wah You're not dressing how I want you to dress!!!!!!"
^ most complaints against male options in this thread ^

It's this thread again! Good, good...need to keep it up, need to keep banging on those certain doors, until SE actually hears us and unlocks them. Because it is shameful.
Was just saying to a friend not two hours ago - I'm fatigued of the clothes we have and out of ideas when it comes to glamour. Robes, robes, robes, or more robes (yeah, sorry I'm a caster), or I can go in nothing and then get looked down on because of that. And so many of the new outfits are nothing but reskins as well, it's just... sad. Then there's that stupid Thavnairian set, which doesn't even fit anything Ishgard-related, but at least costs more than a house. And frankly, isn't even that fortunate an outfit. Meh.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Why did you choose Midlander then?

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I guess because unless you suffer from insecurities about what defines a male, Midlander males look pretty clearly masculine, as long as you avoid the horror known as the Vaan face.

I admit I didn't read the last two pages but there's always been a screenshot I wanted to post from the Moogle quest in one of those thread that turns around what male characters should and should not wear. I didn't know exactly how to take it when I saw it happen in game and still don't know what to think of it...

http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/...2015200139.png


Yes it's french, rough translation is 'Franz's fight will starts soon. Come on, let's go girls!' (and yeah that third highlander has no pants on)

It might not be totally relevant to the topic at hand and I have no idea if the english version of this sentence is any close to the FR one, and it might have been used just for humor; but seeing this to me it pretty much meant that SE doesn't mind having men wearing revealing clothing and having feminine attitude.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I guess because unless you suffer from insecurities about what defines a male, Midlander males look pretty clearly masculine, as long as you avoid the horror known as the Vaan face.

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His point though, going by Western standards (which is the excuse a lot of people are saying men shouldn't wear dresses are using), midlanders run effeminately, which is okay! Just like men wearing dresses, or whatever else SE decides is too hard to allow men to wear.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

His point though, going by Western standards (which is the excuse a lot of people are saying men shouldn't wear dresses are using), midlanders run effeminately, which is okay! Just like men wearing dresses, or whatever else SE decides is too hard to allow men to wear.

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You unpacked an awful lot from a post that said nothing about how they run, by any standard.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

...because you can design them to be conventionally attractive and masculine. They're fairly well built and could easily pass for an athlete/male model/celebrity stud depending on the design.

If you don't think this looks like a guy then I'd strongly suggest getting you eyesight checked out and/or any potential insecurities regarding the concept of masculinity resolved:

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I guess because unless you suffer from insecurities about what defines a male, Midlander males look pretty clearly masculine, as long as you avoid the horror known as the Vaan face.

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You guys not only let your chance of being an awesome Highlander slip away, but you also show us that you cannot recognize a joke when you see one.

I'm sad, it was a good one.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You unpacked an awful lot from a post that said nothing about how they run, by any standard.

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Except it's pretty common knowledge that most people think midlanders run in an effeminate fashion *shrug* I probably did extrapolate too much from it. But I think his comment still matters. Hell, both of you even commented towards the guy that ANYONE who was even somewhat confident wouldn't care/view that as effeminate. So quite frankly, why is Theodric allowed to say the same thing about men who choose to use more effeminate clothing?