I was just thinking about this the other day, how HW was played off like it was entirely made for the DRG class, and yet DRG didn't really get any goodies..lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onikimaru
Square Enix blew it for some of us, but I'm still here...
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06-23-2015, 02:52 PMTwilite
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06-23-2015, 03:00 PMZaraarazErhm...But killing the same mobs over and over again requires strategy, doesn't turn you into a robot, takes effort and not only time, and doesn't undermine my intelligence? Some people hate 'quest grind'. I personally will never play any game anymore where I need to level by killing the same mobs over and over. Been there, done that, and I never felt more like a bot than doing that. I'ld rather have quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
It's preference. Maybe this isn't the game for you and you should look out for a Korean grinder. And I don't mean this in a nasty way. I have friends who are happy to do the same thing over and over again for hours. -
06-23-2015, 03:09 PMOnikimaruI did meet him :P. You're talking about the large scale fate right?, or the SV HM boss mobs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Renvalt
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06-23-2015, 03:09 PMBracken
in responce to tenku, You think these quests are there to help you get accustomed to a zone? These Zones are pretty confusing to start, so going back and forth from point A to point B get you used to how they work, until you get your bird, they its easy.
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06-23-2015, 03:17 PMRenvaltSomeone else, actually. I can't say who, but I'll say this: his name starts with "H".Quote:
Originally Posted by Onikimaru
And as for the FATEs, I can say to some degree that most FATEs in that region have gone ignored (as far as I saw), because people were still doing their MSQs. And speaking of MSQs.... the guy I was talking about plays a part in that.
I think he believes there's ought else to "get used to". We're apparently these big, bad, primp ass champions, so everything should deal with epic level tiers of kickass. Or so his attitude screams to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bracken
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06-23-2015, 03:20 PMDuelleThe way they implemented flight was a rather elegant way of dealing with an issue WoW's devs complained about and used as an excuse to remove flight: people were getting flight and cheesing through content and obstacles and not seeing the whole zones as "intended". Instead flight is gated behind zone exploration and story quests, which follows the solution to the aforementioned problem. It's really not that bad if you put it into perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
This always happens when you meet a new faction. At least with Ishgard it's explained that most people don't want anything to do with you because you're an outsider.Quote:
3. You left us off with quite an amazing story at the end of A Realm Reborn. I even watched the trailer for Heavensward because I was so excited for the new chapter. Imagine my disappointment when I find out that I have to run "errands" for my new host. Yes, it gets a lot better, but first impressions are the most important. Overall, it was a very poor "grand opening" for Heavensward.
Keep in mind the quests are supposed to be there for the sake of exposition. You're given a lot of context and an idea of what goes on in each zone. In this aspect HW's storytelling is an improvement over what we saw in ARR.Quote:
4. Many people already have issues with having to do main scenerio quests to unlock content and progression. It wouldn't be an issue at all if the main scenerio didn't feel like fillers and running delivery errands between point a, b, or c.
For one, me killing Ravana after half the party got knocked off the platform was awesome.Quote:
5. What happened to what made the Final Fantasy franchise so great? Where is the "HOLY CRAP, THAT WAS EPIC!" part of the game? Final Fantasy 11 did a much better job with the main scenerio in that regards.
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06-23-2015, 03:34 PMDualbladeIts guys like you that made me redo that fight because I got knocked off at the start of final phase :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Seriously though...it sounds like the xpac may not be for you, or if it is, may be more so after you get just a bit further ahead in the story. Of course I agree that the moogle hide and seeks are a bit much, but its atleast in keeping with how they act. -
06-23-2015, 03:39 PMLemuriaIf you think there's no purpose to flight just because you've unlocked it, think again. Many of the zones have quests and areas which unlock ONCE you've attained flight. There are areas in the maps that can only be reached through flight as well. Flight is also very important for gathering classes, since nodes tend to be widely spaced. Furthermore, flying is faster than land based travel. Being done with a few quests isn't the same as being done with the zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
Besides which, having to explore the zones before flying through them (thus avoiding every monster and any other obstacles) is a great way to get people acquainted to the zone first. Think of it as attuning to an aetheryte for fast travel rather than the primary mode of transportation.
There's no pleasing some people. The early quests you so loathe are actually really well designed, if you think about it. It opens up by teaching you the area, showing your starter zones and ultimately unlocking your first flying chocobo mount. Sounds like you expected to be soloing primals the minute you stepped foot through the door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
You're free to your opinion, but it doesn't seem to be a popular one given the responses here. A lot of people, myself included, genuinely love this expansion. I daresay I've enjoyed just about everything it has to offer with very few grumbles (my poor WHM...). I'm level 57, just unlolcked a new dungeon and I've unlocked flight in three different zones. The story is excellent and well-written, and the new jobs are a lot of fun to play.
This game is finally starting to see its potential realized. Play through it some more and you'll begin to understand why people enjoy it. -
06-23-2015, 03:45 PMREPROBEAN_CHILDI think it's incredibly shallow go ONLY go by first impressions. RPGs, especially take time and doing quests exists throughout the genre. If your friends are going to be so critical over the game, then they're better off staying out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
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06-23-2015, 03:51 PMRyuDragnierYou must earn the right to fly, which lets you skip ALMOST EVERYTHING ON THE MAP when you go places with it. The purpose of being able to fly in this game is to make it easier to get from A to B if you plan on leveling other jobs, go searching for hunts, explore the wonders of the area, or just FATE grinding. Not to mention this is just release, imagine in the future when they add more quests, flying will be far more useful then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
Congratulations, you just described every quest in every RPG ever...so what makes it so different here, good sir?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
Not really, it was a normal MMO way of showing you around a brand new town or region, through quest errands. Plus this is an RPG, most have slow starts before getting better, stop using 2-4 hours as a showing of how good it's going to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
From what I've seen of the main quest this time, there's very little filler, it's mostly just the story itself. It's the side quests that are the filler this time, and there is a LOT of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
Have you SEEN some of the stuff that goes on in the main scenario so far, or are you judging based on barely any quests done? There's multiple moments where epic is screamed down from the heavens on high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
They got it right, you're just nitpicking about things every RPG does. Every RPG has invisible walls, every RPG has some zones you don't like, every RPG has areas gated behind doing main story stuff, etc. If you're an RPG player, none of this should bother you in the slightest, especially since this is nothing we haven't seen before. Give an RPG some time man, quite nitpicking, and play the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
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06-23-2015, 03:53 PMXandureWine for your tears.
I'm sorry, but clearly you're craving attention of some kind and I'm here to give it to you.
Oh wait, never mind.
Your point is mute.
Also, Heavensward is a great expansion. The story is great and earning your right to fly is worth it. SquareEnix got this right. Sorry you had a bad first impression. Your lose. You should quit while you're behind. -
06-23-2015, 04:02 PMLuciano_Bozzelli
I always found people weird to say a storyline isn't good, or doesn't grab their attention, but they skip all the dialogue. A game is only immersive as you let it. Example, I read damn near everything. Main Scenario I read, fetch quest I read pretty fast, but if you come to an npc press X a million times, and then just go get what they ask and come back, yeah its a fetch quest, but to tie in what they are saying makes it not so much a fetch quest, but just extra dialogue for the main story.
For instance, in Ishgard main city, there was a dude with his head on the table, drunk and slumped over. When I talked to the bar tender he told me that the dude had lost his daughter to an illness. This wasn't even a MSQ, or a side quest. But it gave me a greater sense of the well being of some of the citizens that live in Ishgard, and the treatment of people who weren't highborn, and born of the 4 houses. The game can be very deep, or you can skip a lot of ish, and say to your self, that wasn't much... You say to yourself "I don't read story" but that's all like buying a complete meal, but only drinking the drink, and eating the meat off the burger, cause your in a hurry, forget the other stuff you paid for. -
06-23-2015, 04:09 PMLycinder
I have enjoyed heavensward so far and will normally just go meh to people with different opinions on it but -
How far did you even get in the storyline? There are multiple moments, even wiping to the first primals phase transition is a "OMG THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY THE GREATEST AND MOST BEAUTIFUL THING I EVER SAW!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
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06-23-2015, 04:10 PMFoxyAreku
How in the world did you make it to level 50 if you hate fetch quests so much that you'll quit over them?
That's basically all levels 1 to 47 were. Early leveling is way worse and tedious. None of this is new, really surprised you didn't expect it. At least in HW they spice it up a little and keep it fresh. >.> -
06-23-2015, 04:11 PMCoraline
1. Flying is so valuable. Questing is not the only thing to do. What about fates,gathering, hunts and look outs? Who know what else they'll add with flying.
You should never be able to fly off the bat in any mmo. The reason wow went back to on ground mounts to give a better feel and exploration to the world. If you could just fly everywhere then you aren't in an area long enough to enjoy its surroundings.
2. Yes the quests have been rather tedious, fetch like and point A-B-C-A-C-B. Very annoying and ruins the flow of everything. -
06-23-2015, 04:13 PMKaedrianLiang
OP probably skip-click-spams through quest text. When you play a game like that its going to be boring and meaningless. I wouldn't be surprised if OP plays with sound or BGM off.
I'm taking my time with the MSQ and even side story quests. There's an extreme amount of character development. Once upon a time i read 2-3 books a month, now i play FFXIV.
Immerse yourself into the ffxiv world. When you play, do so in your own free and private time where you can shutout the real world. Get lost in it. I had a very slow time progressing through Falcon's Nest as the BGM combined with the shattered history of Western coerthas, and Legacy players have actually been there once upon a time, kept giving me the feels. -
06-23-2015, 04:13 PMAlunariThis!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirgellon
No gaming company whether it be SE, Blizzard, ArenaNet etc can please everyone, they aim for their audience and tell the story/design the game as they envision it. I am not saying that companies are never influenced by their players, but usually not on major game direction.
Saying that I have loved the start of Heavensward, it has engrossed me from the start. Yes there are fetch quests here and there, but they are often the calm before the storm ... love it.
Also as for flying, I enjoy that I have to open flying up in each zone, and I enjoy the way to have done it, it encourages exploring on your main job, but then it is open for you levelling subsequent jobs. -
06-23-2015, 04:15 PMGunspec
After unlocking flying, you will never visit the zone again. NEVER. Not for leve quests, not for gathering, not for treasure maps, hunts, fate grinding, future beast tribe content, future 3.X quests, and certainly not for the dozen classes you haven't been initially leveling as. In fact, the moment you unlock flying, the data for the zone itself is DELETED from your hard drive, because it serves no further use.
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06-23-2015, 04:30 PM3Jane
1* Speed and convenience when required. The searching introduces you to the regions in detail on the ground, finding your way around etc. There are some interesting places you come across by doing that.
2* Just normal MMO stuff and not an unreasonable amount of that really, to me anyway.
3* Offering your services to your new host in return for saving your skin by giving you the protection of his house, is really a lot more than running errands. Given the skills of the Scions and your own character, it's the kind of courtesy I would expect.
4* A point of view which seems to have some support on the forums, but something which I personally disagree with Mainly because this is a heavily story driven game, and series in general.
5* Be patient, it's only just started. -
06-23-2015, 04:33 PMMooga
This post! Is so Lolololololol wrong in so many levels, and stupid to say the least but I don't want to be rude.
1 - The way they are doing flying is pretty good and I approve highly. Been given flying out of no where like "WoW.BC" would be disappointing. Having flying just for your lazy sake of moving is not an option that's why there is groundmounts.
2 - You played 1 hour and not 10 hours for sure. Anyway there is always fetch quests, you are being "trialed" after all.
3 - YOU literally didn't play much at all. I had at least 12 HORYY SHITS SPAZMS from the Main Quest Scenario in Heavensward, and that counting was from 50 to 56 only.
4 - Many people want to be iLvL250, so they can weez weez the content and stop playing 2 months until next major patch. I bet you don't even read the text.
5 - Ravanna? Bismark? Vault? Played any of those? HW Fate chains? Then your opinion is not valid!.
Tenku Kibo, I'm from the same server and I'm... so disappointed with you. -
06-23-2015, 04:33 PMMadsamuraiOh God. I lol'ed hard at this. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunspec
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06-23-2015, 04:39 PMGreeky84
Complain because you have to put some effort in? FFxiv is not the game for you. Effort = reward.
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06-23-2015, 04:42 PMHigashikata
God forbid people need to do content to access other content!
What was SE thinking!? -
06-23-2015, 04:42 PMKiyyto
Wow, I hear you.... Could not disagree more though.
I absolutely love what they've done.
I mean, it is far beyond my wildest expectations. I probably would have quit FFXIV because I was just kinda sick of it, but I am completely reinvested now.
Heavensward is INCREDIBLE! -
06-23-2015, 04:48 PMShurrikhanHow many of these quests were there... Five or so? o.oQuote:
Originally Posted by FateAudax
To OP:
3) I didn't have an issue with the entry to Ishgard at all, and kind of liked the bits with the two (or, three) sons, though I can see why you might have found other points in the MSQs a bit underwhelming, especially their (as in (4)) fetch-quest aspects.
1) The only good alternative I could really think of would of would take a lot of programming, sadly, and may not even be possible, but, just to throw my two cents out there for now:
Keep the aether currents, but make them a bit more like actual currents; e.g. you can ride them and only them at first. The nodes themselves would be (though I'm loathe to use this reference) the jumping ledges from Assassin's Creed), typically signalling the end of and allowing a quick exit from some particular area - allowing a limited form of flight until you land, or between a combination of your first landing, flight time, and/or distance traveled. Flight speed along currents improves as you unlock more, and flight speed is still a bit faster along currents than generally once you have access to unlimited flight. In this way, you fully experience the zone, but still get some of the questing-facilitation of flight before you've nearly run out of quests.
Also not sure why this is such a common reaction after reading something that is clearly pointing not at the issue of effort, but of contradiction (getting flight mostly only after you can use it) and tedium (I doubt the OP would complain about tougher but more interesting quests)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeky84
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06-23-2015, 04:48 PMGallus
I completely disagree TC. Heavensward maps are gorgeous, they are genuinely beautiful. If you could fly from the beginning, trust me you wouldn't value as much the ability to fly in those maps, it's very reasonable that they expect you to at least explore them before you can get to fly around them...and no, once you can fly around them it's not useless because there's no possible living way you can gather/hunt in those maps relatively easy just by walking from one place to another. I'm in complete love with HW so far. My only "concern" is the lack of accuracy in healing gear xD, but meh.
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06-23-2015, 04:57 PMEclair_Xysha
What... MMO... Would not have you run around back and forth? Grind your time away? Make you do errands? Make a fool out your protagonist?
If you seriously don't like it, just find other games to play.
FPS games? Call of Duty is nice. You can go straight to multiplayer and not have to worry about unlocking anything and everything. So no errands since you don't have to necessarily go straight to story. No grinding unless you want to show off your name tag or prestige. Oh but if you die a lot, you do have to run back and forth between spawns and you will definitely make a fool out of yourself with your KDR. -
06-23-2015, 04:57 PMslml320
one note we seem to be missing is this was a decent launch no 3102 error no constant maintenance to fix shit over and over ..
yes i know and feel sorry for the huge pop data centres that couldn't get into due to shear massive amounts of ppl trying to log in.. i do hope they secure a fix for that and quickly!!
but all in all the EA was good and relatively trouble free… I'm usually not one for praise for SE nor do i white knight i usually complain
but
GOOD JOB SE!! -
06-23-2015, 05:05 PMOnikimaruOh yeah i met him :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Renvalt
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06-23-2015, 05:17 PMh0tNstilettosOkay and? I already know that as FFXIV forced their hand on it due to many WoW players complaining and jumping ship to FFXIV due to flying. That doesn't change the reason they removed flying in the first place. I said nothing about what they want to do now. I mentioned what they did then. So your comment, followed by the odd "Sorry." at the end made no sense. My comment still stands. That is why they removed flying. When I heard them mention putting it back in they said they'd be handling it differently this time, which I assume would be to avoid why they removed it in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
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06-23-2015, 05:20 PMEvenstar
1) Getting a flying mount right from the start would destroy the exploration/adventure feeling of the game. By forcing us to explore the map, run around to all corners of a map, find ways to get to a certain spot on a map without a flying mount etc. really was fun and annoying at the same time. I got annoyed several times, but I understand why they did it and personally I supported it.
2) Totally agree on this. Some quests kept going on for ages and all you did was run between spot A and spot B, maybe a spot C (the quest with the small wyvern in Dravanian Forelands for example, or the one where you are looking for a husband for a NPC).
3) The story is amazing. Yes there were fillers, as there were in 2.x. This time they were not as annoying in my opinion and the story and the ending was well worth it. Last fights were not hard, but still epic, just like when ARR was released.
4) See point 3. This is a FF game, so story will always be important. You can not expect to play a FF game and skip story and still get what you want.
5) It still has those moment, maybe less than FFXI, but no MMO will get close to the epic feeling of FFXI. Those times are gone and no MMO can or will survive if they try to be FFXI.
While there are some small points I agree with you I think your complaints can be summarized as "please give me what I want now, without me having to work for it one way or another" and that is exactly what is wrong with the current MMO playing generation. You compare to FFXI, but did you ever play Chains of Promothia expansion when it was released? Hell, did you even play FFXI before they nerfed it? Now that game was a chore, from partying to doing a simple side quest, everything took ages to do and there was nothing you could do if you had limited time. So while you complain FFXIV has too many chores and fillers you also compare the game to FFXI and say FFXI was epic. Does not compute man .... does not compute. -
06-23-2015, 05:22 PMBreathlessTao
Y'know, I can't help but agree with most of OP's points.
As for Aether Currents... much like NIN is a glorified MNK, these currents make a glorified Sightseeing Log. There is a reason why so few people have bothered with the Sightseeing Log: it's tedious, it's multiple RNG, it's timed, and on the long run it just ain't worth it. So SE's solution to the problem with the mechanics of it? A bit of simplification and forcing players to do them - as was already pointed out right on the first page in this thread, it's forcing you to "explore". To "enjoy" the views and the mobs. The problem with that is nobody likes to be forced to do things, especially things they don't consider fun. And with how gigantic the new maps are and how so obviously they were made for flying, looking up most of what's difficult-to-find spots is not fun. Especially when nothing whatsoever takes you there, except this arbitrary gating of the main selling point and focal feature of the whole expansion. In Mor Dhona, my character can jump up platforms as tall as he himself is. New zones? No jumping up to places smaller than him. Have to get up to a certain place? Well it's walls, walls, and more walls all the way throughout half the map just to get back to the same location, only a little bit higher. And if that ain't enough, we have places we can't jump down from, even though there is ground beneath. And the (mini)map itself? No markers for an item that works the same way as BTN/MNR skills is one thing, but it's also awful for distinction between altitude levels.
Tell you what, I've taken a lot of scenic screenshots and I haven't been to half the zones yet (Sea of Clouds I couldn't even complete, obviously). But that did not happen while I was trying to hunt down these spots. In fact, I took them after I could fly, because I could actually be bothered to notice and appreciate the sights. If a dev has to implement a way to force their players to do/notice certain things... I'd say they should think about what they created. I don't mind exploring, I actually love exploring (even now the first thing I did the first time was trying to complete my map...gave up on doing that when I figured out it's not possible). When I have to be examining every pixel on the screen though, to find that one place where I can reach a specific spot - I would not call that "exploring".
I also agree about the fetchquestserrands... Most people hated them in ARR, and now they put even more in. On much larger maps that are even harder to traverse. And again, when you're trying to get through, or trying to spot a little glowing something hidden as much as possible... it's not the sights that you're paying attention to.
The story... so far so good. Errands right at the start though, not to mention the literal chores for the Moogles - yeah, I could live without those. Rowena mentions it in one of the MSQs when you're sent to her for some...flowers I think? What fine use it is of the talents of the warrior of light, playing errand boys. Wish SE actually took a page of their own book, when they are actually capable of criticising themselves...
That said, the MSQ does span out nicely. Needs a bit of time to start unfurling, but it really does. There definitely are great parts in it, and I doubt I'm even halfway through.
But yeah, on a whole, I do understand the frustration - heck, I have gotten frustrated more times already than I should have, and we're only past Early Access. Which was, all things considered, incomparably smoother than that of ARR's. Things feel slow, much slower than what we've grown used to, and in part the huge zones where we have to not only run but take constant detours to get everywhere, to actually do things, is to blame for that. -
06-23-2015, 05:27 PMT2teddySo do you even bother READING the cutscene/quest dialogues? Seems like you must not or else you would not be saying the first two hours are pointless. Do you not realize that every single thing you do to help others, is meant to build respect and loyalty from others towards your character?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
The only point of yours which I 'sort of' agree with is the flying. They could have stuck with the usual 8 compass points instead of over 15.... -
06-23-2015, 05:43 PMNalfein
Guys you need to understand, an expansion is meant to be played and you DO need to spend time in order to give them some to create new contents. What i think about flying is that they did it this way in order to avoid people to fly all at once and make your experience about flying very annoying. It was great the way they did it and thank you for that i had no traffic jam on sky!
The story is amazing, musics and areas too, for my part I'm more than satisfy and quite frankly they worked their ass off to provide you this new expansion you should be thankful for that rather than complain. -
06-23-2015, 05:46 PMRadaccidid you clear the HW story? if not, please look forward to it....it's mighty epic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
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06-23-2015, 06:15 PMNadirahAnd despite it supposedly being better for the game, they put it back in because they have no gonads and as has been said before, money talks, bs walks.Quote:
Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos
They lost me as a customer mainly due to their attitudes stemming from back in Cataclysm, but I digress. Cant even post my true feelings about game designers that cocky and condescending because I like posting.