[dev1134] Guildleve Revisions

These are just some immediate things I can see. There may be more pros and cons that I am not seeing.

Pros:

1) No more "stress" about completing the entire cycle of leves.

2) No more division of leves...more focus on what the player really wants to do.

3) Reduced cost and grind time.

Cons:

1) Exploitation of leve system (ie. pounding through multiple levels in a single sitting, never leaving town to complete crafting leves, only going to favored location to complete battle and gathering leves, farming a specific item through repeated use of a crafting leve etc.)

2) Reduced daily server activity by players. Instead of being on every 1-2 days people will only be online for 1-2 days a week, pound out their accumulated leves and disappear the rest of the week. Less activity gives the impression of even less players.

3) Keeping the exploitation methods in mind from my first con...new travel methods (as well as other methods of travel now in game) will be nullified by anima costs for favored locations. 56 battle leves per week at 8 per 24 hours for 7 days. 3 Leves per location. That would be 19 trips to a location at 2 anima for a grand total of 38 anima use. Going back to town to renew a leve would not be a worry with the return command. Regeneration of 6 anima per 24 hour period would mean you would have 42 anima per week to work with. With an average of 4500 per battle leve in the 40+ range even a solo person would pound through 2-3 levels per cycle with minimal effort and minimal time on this game.

Not sure how this will work out but I am seeing LS's recruiting based on when you will be on for your 1-2 days that week.

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Originally Posted by Mortikhan

2) Reduced daily server activity by players. Instead of being on every 1-2 days people will only be online for 1-2 days a week, pound out their accumulated leves and disappear the rest of the week. Less activity gives the impression of even less players.

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However there is also no dead day when no reset is happening. Since there will always be resets happening every 12 hours, some people will keep on top of it and log in to do them whenever possible.

I like the idea of storing up leve slots and then running a lot when I have time... Based off my schedule I'll always have leves to run when I'm online now, as opposed to having to wait for a reset, or feeling like I have to login to run leves or I'll be missing out.

When this comes out, I might hold off running leves for a week, just so I can build up my slots and then start running them and always have a nice buffer. :)

I don't think LS's recruiting based on what days you are available is a bad thing. People already have LS's based on time zone. I don't know how any of your 1st Cons counts as an exploit either, except possibly the crafting reward thing but if this is in place as is the devs have already taken it into consideration. Your 2nd con is probably unfounded, since people have different playstyles and most people would have different days they would want to do leves. With more content coming people would most likely be doing other stuff on other days.

I'm quite happy about this as it means on event days (dungeon runs etc) when I get home from work and log in, I won't have to miss out on local leves or battle leves for a new class I'm ranking up due to time restrictions and ultimately missing out on the reset :)

I'm sure if it becomes exploitable then they will adjust it, like they have the current leve rewards in only getting SP at the end of a completed or handed-in leve.

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Originally Posted by Bigglesworth

Guardian Aspect has a big effect on completion SP

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What makes you assume I did not have Guardian Aspect on?

if you get 700, you are not doing it from the correct rank range, right now if you do a leves that is too high or too low for you, you only get 25% of the total SP reward.

like u were doing horizon on r13 class.

Speaking of Guardian Aspect is the cap still going to be 200? That would be limiting factor. It would be important to use the GA and make sure it is not wasted. Granted it only applies to battlecraft but still.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

if you get 700, you are not doing it from the correct rank range, right now if you do a leves that is too high or too low for you, you only get 25% of the total SP reward.

like u were doing horizon on r13 class.

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I did 5 star leve, Solo, with Aspect, at horizon on my rank 25 Thaumaturge and got 120SP a kill, and then 700 reward. Maybe unlucky?

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Originally Posted by viion

I did 5 star leve, Solo, with Aspect, at horizon on my rank 25 Thaumaturge and got 120SP a kill, and then 700 reward. Maybe unlucky?

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something is wrong but idk what.. but, you should at least get 1.5k for those.. You didn't clear the mobs with r50 class first did you o.o

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Players will receive an allowance of four leves every 12 hours (Earth time), up to maximum of 99.

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Holy cramoly thats alot of leves...

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Originally Posted by viion

I did 5 star leve, Solo, with Aspect, at horizon on my rank 25 Thaumaturge and got 120SP a kill, and then 700 reward. Maybe unlucky?

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Was that before 1.18a ? They raised sp reward for lower rank leves in that one.

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Originally Posted by viion

I did 5 star leve, Solo, with Aspect, at horizon on my rank 25 Thaumaturge and got 120SP a kill, and then 700 reward. Maybe unlucky?

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this i do not believe i need a picture but w/e i do not care. Mab just mab you did 1 star and took 25 mins then i can see that but 700 on 5 star? i do not believe. you get more on harder stars and the faster you do it.

Rank 30 leves give 3-4 k and i never did it on five star and thats without GA. So if what you are saying is true it does not matter becase you need to do rank 20 leves 2-3 times then you are high enough for rank 30 leves

Also changing classes at anytime during a leve lowers the amount of SP you get at the end.

Unfortunately, under my current situation these changes will handicap me. I only play during the daytime and on Lindblum I have found no English speaking groups during those hours, therefore I live by Levee quests. As such I will be losing 4 levees/36 hours. In order for me to play at the levels I am playing at now I would need to take about 2 weeks off in order to build up enough quest that would allow me to play at the same pace I am now playing at. This particular portion of the revision would have been better suited for release of the PS3 version when the population would be expected to grow. That being said the rest of the patch revision looks fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

Unfortunately, under my current situation these changes will handicap me. I only play during the daytime and on Lindblum I have found no English speaking groups during those hours, therefore I live by Levee quests. As such I will be losing 4 levees/36 hours. In order for me to play at the levels I am playing at now I would need to take about 2 weeks off in order to build up enough quest that would allow me to play at the same pace I am now playing at. This particular portion of the revision would have been better suited for release of the PS3 version when the population would be expected to grow. That being said the rest of the patch revision looks fantastic.

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uhh.. it's 4 leves every 12 hours. So, 8 every 24 hours instead of every 36 hours. I don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

However there is also no dead day when no reset is happening. Since there will always be resets happening every 12 hours, some people will keep on top of it and log in to do them whenever possible.

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I would say this is true...but given the complaints I have seen about how people think the leves are too bland and repetitious and see them as chores to start with...I would still have to disagree there. I could be wrong about that there is no doubt. Also please keep in mind that there will actually be less leves overall. This will mean more actual downtime during that 36 hr time. Given the ability to focus all of the leves on one class people will be able to go to one spot repeatedly...this eliminates travel time sure but also makes the leves doable in far less time. Also as I said the anima will no longer be a factor...again more downtime. Leves overall will roughly take 1 hour per 12 hour period...at most.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I don't think LS's recruiting based on what days you are available is a bad thing. People already have LS's based on time zone. I don't know how any of your 1st Cons counts as an exploit either, except possibly the crafting reward thing but if this is in place as is the devs have already taken it into consideration. Your 2nd con is probably unfounded, since people have different playstyles and most people would have different days they would want to do leves. With more content coming people would most likely be doing other stuff on other days.

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I don't see the point to leveling classes so quickly that you have no idea what they can do, I do not see the reasoning behind saying that someone who only completes 5-10 items over and over and over again (and receive a end leve bonus on top of it as well as guild marks...not to mention it never costing them a single gilother than repairing gear and upgrading gear) should reach level 50 and be able to craft anything else they want and I also can't see why someone would be considered a "veteran" or "experienced" if they never have to leave their home territory. I know these are all matters of perspective so I will not argue over them as you will see them differently than myself obviously. Most of the other content if done by someone level 40-50 would be done within 1-1.5 weeks. Darkhold would take more time (maybe) but I do not see anything else that would warrant a massive input of time or effort for a group that got together 3 days a week. All of the side quests are solo material. The only other thing that might take some time are faction leves. I will not speculate on future content since most of what they have promised is still mechanics revision for the most part. They have not released anything to this point that has anything to do with the main story plot (which was mostly an introduction or a preface to the the main story)...although there is a glimmer of hope for that in the next patch...a year after the fact.

I hope I am not seeming defensive but it may look that way a bit. I am very disappointed with the general feeling that everyone wants to fast forward through this game. I just see people who want to play this game on the side...all the time. They want it made so convenient that it's becoming more of an appetizer than a main course. Maybe I will be wrong and this system will work out great...I could live with that. I am not seeing it but I am big enough to admit that I can and have been wrong about a lot of things. I really hope that I am in this case.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

Unfortunately, under my current situation these changes will handicap me. I only play during the daytime and on Lindblum I have found no English speaking groups during those hours, therefore I live by Levee quests. As such I will be losing 4 levees/36 hours. In order for me to play at the levels I am playing at now I would need to take about 2 weeks off in order to build up enough quest that would allow me to play at the same pace I am now playing at. This particular portion of the revision would have been better suited for release of the PS3 version when the population would be expected to grow. That being said the rest of the patch revision looks fantastic.

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Actually if you're only focusing on battle leves you're getting more, since those 12 leves can be all battle ones instead of the 8 battle 8 craft, or you can do all-craft instead of all battle. If you spread yourself out, you have a point, though.

@Mortikahn: You're not really sounding defensive, but i think you are a little too worrisome about the problems. There's nothing wrong with people hoarding leves and doing them all at once, getting a bunch of levels, because they're still taking the same amount of time to rank up as everyone else, just all at once. No matter how people level up, there will be those that play well and those that don't.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

You're partially right. The fatigue doesn't affect your leve but your allowance still ticks down. Try doing 16 gathering leves in a row and then seeing how much normal gathering you can do afterwards. This is why you should always do your leves after your day's gathering.

Looking forward to the day I spam 99 rank 40 fishing leves at rank 35. But I figure DoL leves will be nerfed by then. They're already too powerful.

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im pretty sure it doesnt
ive been doing this several times in the last few weeks. go to full fatigue, then pick up 6+ leves and do them with no fatigue issues whatsoever

have slight different topic about leve to ask about?
Found out in a past play session that for some reason i got DC midway in a leve but i log back on a few min later and the leve was instant fail.
Will it be changed so this does not happen, but the timer keeps going?

Will be intresting to try the new changes out.

That doesn't seem to be the case, but you'll be able to retry it immediately, although it will consume a leve slot.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

im pretty sure it doesnt
ive been doing this several times in the last few weeks. go to full fatigue, then pick up 6+ leves and do them with no fatigue issues whatsoever

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Yeah, I said that.

Now do 8 gathering leves and go gather and see how long it takes you to get to fatigue.

Gathering Fatigue doesn't affect leves

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Originally Posted by Jamison

As I've said elsewhere, I really like this system for a number of reasons. However, I do see one problem I would like the devs to keep in mind.

If my math is right, DoL leves are going to give, percentage-wise, far too much SP per leve. Right now you can only get 6 (good) DoL leves per 36 hours, which is a reasonable balance of SP for that timeframe. However, if you can really get 12 DoL leves per 36 hours, ranking up (which is already insanely powerful with DoL leves) is just going to be absurd.

Hopefully there is some balance that can be struck.

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In the list of changes for 1.19, they said they would be making big changes to the DoL experience curve while they place an emphasis on harvesting in many locations. I suspect that following this update, people will not be getting insane exp through leves for those jobs.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we see adjustments to the amount of exp earned through leves. So for everyone fantasizing about spamming the highest-rewarding leves and leveling faster, I suggest a reality check. I'm not trying to criticize or cast a shadow of gloom, but I do hope people walk into this update open-minded and not like little kids on X-mas morning who "already know what they're getting"... only to end up very unhappy with the outcome. We saw it before when 1.18 was released, with all the flaming over how ARC, soloing, and the mage jobs were "hopelessly broken" and how the game was now "unplayable." Regardless of what happens, just keep an open mind and have fun.

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Originally Posted by VisionHolder

In the list of changes for 1.19, they said they would be making big changes to the DoL experience curve while they place an emphasis on harvesting in many locations. I suspect that following this update, people will not be getting insane exp through leves for those jobs.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we see adjustments to the amount of exp earned through leves. So for everyone fantasizing about spamming the highest-rewarding leves and leveling faster, I suggest a reality check. I'm not trying to criticize or cast a shadow of gloom, but I do hope people walk into this update open-minded and not like little kids on X-mas morning who "already know what they're getting"... only to end up very unhappy with the outcome. We saw it before when 1.18 was released, with all the flaming over how ARC, soloing, and the mage jobs were "hopelessly broken" and how the game was now "unplayable." Regardless of what happens, just keep an open mind and have fun.

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I see by your signature you haven't hit 42+ on any gathering yet. If you do leves that are in your level block, they are granted less SP than a battlecraft would doing leves that range. The reason why it looks fast is because people usually start their R30's in gathering as soon as they get them (R25), and their 40's as soon as those are unlocked (R35). Where as in battlecraft you normally wouldn't. (Unless you're running a large group)

When you get into your R40's you'll start to see a big drop as you progress. As you're not able to increase the stars for a difficulty bonus on your gathering leves the amount of granted SP starts to become out of balance with battlecraft progression. This more shows how unbalanced the leves are in terms of progression by mostly giving extremes of too much and too little.

What SE needs to accomplish is not really working out the problem of gathering SP being too great during leves, but balancing them overall across the board. Which I don't know how they would be able to do unless they add grade 6 nodes.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

I see by your signature you haven't hit 42+ on any gathering yet. If you do leves that are in your level block, they are granted less SP than a battlecraft would doing leves that range. The reason why it looks fast is because people usually start their R30's in gathering as soon as they get them (R25), and their 40's as soon as those are unlocked (R35). Where as in battlecraft you normally wouldn't. (Unless you're running a large group)

When you get into your R40's you'll start to see a big drop as you progress. As you're not able to increase the stars for a difficulty bonus on your gathering leves the amount of granted SP starts to become out of balance with battlecraft progression. This more shows how unbalanced the leves are in terms of progression by mostly giving extremes of too much and too little.

What SE needs to accomplish is not really working out the problem of gathering SP being too great during leves, but balancing them overall across the board. Which I don't know how they would be able to do unless they add grade 6 nodes.

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I've already experienced this when going from 20 to 25 and 30 to 35. And yes, I agree. In fact, I'm hoping that they even it out. However, I'm also worried we're going to see a lot of people coming on the forums after the update saying: "OMG, I used to get 10k+ SP per DoL leve, and now I'm only getting X!! SE nerfed leves and has broken everything!!"

I'm just suggesting that we stop looking at individual exp/SP gains that come in big bursts and expecting that to always stay the same. One of the common themes I was picking up when reading the first few pages of this thread was that people were looking forward to spamming the high-SP/exp leves over and over to get even more than before. I'm just worried that expectation may fall flat on its face and result in a lot of unnecessary criticism and whining.

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Originally Posted by VisionHolder

I've already experienced this when going from 20 to 25 and 30 to 35. And yes, I agree. In fact, I'm hoping that they even it out. However, I'm also worried we're going to see a lot of people coming on the forums after the update saying: "OMG, I used to get 10k+ SP per DoL leve, and now I'm only getting X!! SE nerfed leves and has broken everything!!"

I'm just suggesting that we stop looking at individual exp/SP gains that come in big bursts and expecting that to always stay the same. One of the common themes I was picking up when reading the first few pages of this thread was that people were looking forward to spamming the high-SP/exp leves over and over to get even more than before. I'm just worried that expectation may fall flat on its face and result in a lot of unnecessary criticism and whining.

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I just wanted to clarify, and I'm sorry if it came off this way, I wasn't insinuating that you didn't know what you were talking about. I was just putting emphasis on how extreme the progression varies from my personal experience deep into the 40's.

I do agree with you that it can be worked into being too quick of a progression though. It really just needs to be balanced overall.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

In order for me to play at the levels I am playing at now I would need to take about 2 weeks off in order to build up enough quest that would allow me to play at the same pace I am now playing at.

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The patch can actually help you rank up a single skill much faster considering it's no longer portioned between Battle and Craft.

Am i reading this right? so Ill be able to do the same leve over and over, up to 8 times a day(24 hours)?

If so thats awesome! Ill be maxing out my classes in no time!

Overall, I think this is a very good and needed change. But I do think it should be 5 leves instead of 4 per 12 hour period.

I would say 6 leves per 12 hours would be a lot better to be honest, as its the only thing there is to do in the game other than mindlessly grinding. 4 leves is a bit stingy imo.

Four seems fine to me, I think as it is most people are going to have more guildleves than they can ever get through.

The boring factor of guildleves will keep most from burning through their entire allowance every 12 hours, especially now that there is no incentive/rush to get them done before a reset.

This is a wonderful change, no longer will guildleves feel like a central part of playing the game. Just an option there for the few who genuinely enjoy them or those who want something quick to do (can't find a party, short on time, anti socials etc.)

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Originally Posted by Kyra

I would say 6 leves per 12 hours would be a lot better to be honest, as its the only thing there is to do in the game other than mindlessly grinding. 4 leves is a bit stingy imo.

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Wow, you mustn't have played for a very long time. You should give the game another try in 1.19, if not now.

The changes they are making are long term. They are likely making it only 4 per 12 hours because in the future there will be greater emphasis on other things to do and players won't feel like the game is "do 4 guildleves, log out, log back in when cycle resets".

Anyway, this is a great change for people who just don't feel like logging in on a particular day but can still do their leves when they feel like doing them. I would say this is a great step in making guildleves more casual.

does this mean everyone will just do levequest ? no solo , pt or any other method of lvling ?

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Originally Posted by Drake

does this mean everyone will just do levequest ? no solo , pt or any other method of lvling ?

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I don't think
There is still the Ifrit fight and the beastmen strongholds in 1.19 ^^

Sounds bad ass!!!

Just kidding... actually reading it you can see that it goes from being 16 leves every 36hrs to 12 leves every 36 hrs, with locals combined into the total... Good that you dont have to rush to do your leves every reset, bad that there are less to do per 36hrs.

Means more time to mindlessly kill raptors tho.

Several of you didn't understand the point someone else made regarding gathering leves and fatigue.

Yes, during a leve you do not see the *effects* of fatigue. Under the hood, however, your allowance of daily gathering continues to decrease. If your fatigue level is at zero, and you do six leves, you could suddenly be something like 75+ gathers towards items breaking when you do normal gathering.

SP drops off a lot as you approach new leves ranks, and it does even moreso at 45+ when you are still only able to do leves given at r35. But for the most part, there is very little reason, if any, to do any gathering leves once you are in the 40's. Somewhere between 41-43 you'll be able to gather every single item at grade 5, so there's no need waste gathers/fatigue for something that really isn't going get you gathering items.

I disagree about not gathering past the early 40s. Getting to 50 will massively increase your chances of getting HQ grade 5 items. Though I got to 50 without ever seeing a gold ore +3, it must be the rarest item in the game. And anyway who knows how hard it will be to dig up new items they're adding in 1.19. I remember talk of a new type of iron ore.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

Wow, you mustn't have played for a very long time. You should give the game another try in 1.19, if not now.

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Nope I agree with her, there is nothing to do, even in 1.19 there wont be, it will be grind fest with meteria and grind fest to level. There is actual no major content coming as far as I know (i dont count 1 extra dungeon major content as they were boring after first week)