DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

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05-10-2015, 04:39 AM
Nalien

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Damn dude. Fighting in the same area as an S rank hunt? You monster!

Yeah, it's unforgivable that I have little interest in participating in a mindless zergfest :(

Me and all the new players that happen to be leveling in the area when an S Rank spawns should get perma bans.
05-10-2015, 04:41 AM
Mitty_Tsuyoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalien

Yeah, it's unforgivable that I have little interest in participating in a mindless zergfest :(

Me and all the new players that happen to be leveling in the area when an S Rank spawns should get perma bans.

put a perma bans for all those riding their chocobos just passing by and soo happens S-rank spawns on top of them and since they had no intentions for doing the S-rank so they ran forcing s-rank to reset, he/she should be perma banned.
05-10-2015, 07:00 AM
Hiruke

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzraelX

More options are never a bad thing

This just isn't true. For example, a restaurant could have 5,000 items on their menu, or they could have 50. Which do you think has better food? The one with "more options"? Or the one that has less bad options?

Please allow me to introduce the project management triangle, since we've all got our "the dev team needs to do this" hats on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...ement_triangle

Even the smallest change to the game eats up resources, and has a cost somewhere else. Doing X means we're not doing Y. For ANYTHING to get implemented, it has to be more important than a multitude of other things. You wouldn't add in dueling "just because". Unless a certain number of folks are going to use X system, there's ZERO reason to put it in place. And if jobs aren't balanced to where 1v1 fights are actually any kind of fun for anyone, there will never be enough potential users of the system to justify all the negatives that come with it, much less the cost of doing it to begin with.

Simply put, this request has zero chance of getting into the game. They haven't even solved how to get people to do that PvP they have already, the last thing they need to do is add more different kinds of unbalanced PvP, especially ones that let players nag other players in the open world.
05-10-2015, 07:15 AM
Lemuria

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzraelX

They do it in DCUO. And doesn't upset the real world. At all . Lol some ppl would quit if ppl can choose to spar with each other. It's just for fun . If they wanted they can add achievements but that's up to them

Really? You're comparing a game that was BUILT on PvP against a game built on PvE? There are so many things wrong with this argument that it's hard to take it seriously.

DCUO has dedicated PvP servers and an overworld designed specifically to accommodate player versus player battles. A visit to any PvP server means potentially fighting any villain or hero (depending on your chosen allegiance) without even consenting in advance, and each class is designed to work well against another. It's a rock-paper-scissors fighting style, which is totally different to FFXIV.

Horrible 1v1 balance issues aside, having players scrap wherever and whenever they want could easily prove disruptive to others playing. If they're going to add 1v1 at all, it would make more sense to house it in the Gladiator's Guild arena in Ul'dah so people can fight each other at their leisure.
05-10-2015, 07:16 AM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiruke

the last thing they need to do is add more different kinds of unbalanced PvP

Could you show me a few examples of MMORPG's that have perfectly balanced dueling?
05-10-2015, 07:19 AM
VargasVermillion

I'd love to have this in game, don't even care if it's balanced, it's just a thing you can mess around with. Still don't get the people scared of harassment, I've heard of people getting reported for harassment all the time so if it bothers you that much just do that.
05-10-2015, 07:30 AM
Imoye

They could add an arena in Mordhana or somewhere where duelling is possible, but only for such restricted areas, and make an auto-ignore option. Personally prefer not being harassed constantly with requests. I've grown tired of friends who constantly want to "test" something.

Find a target dummy instead.
05-10-2015, 07:31 AM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I'd love to have this in game, don't even care if it's balanced, it's just a thing you can mess around with. Still don't get the people scared of harassment, I've heard of people getting reported for harassment all the time so if it bothers you that much just do that.

Couldn't agree more. As if harassment wasn't already existent in PVE. GMs already come down hard on harassment. Do people really expect it to be any different for dueling?
05-10-2015, 07:38 AM
Nalien

Balance doesn't matter for duels at all. You duel for fun, or to practice.

If I go up against a Warrior on White Mage in a duel, am I going to win? Doubtful, I suck at healer in PvP, but I can get some good practice in for proper PvP, where I'll have even more people on me. If I decide to challenge someone seriously, we can sort out balance ourselves by doing something like using them same, or similar, Jobs.

The only way balance would actually matter for duels is if they slapped Wolf Marks/PvP EXP on it and gave it its own tab in the PvP Profile to record wins and losses. That would be a mistake. Duels should solely be about simple, quick, fun/practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And that's the problem right there.

How is that a problem? Fun content is there for those of us who play to have fun, rather than grinding iLvls.

The only time the eventual drop off in popularity is an issue is when it is for required content (low level dungeons), or when the content requires a large number of players to even get started (Frontlines). Something which only requires one other person doesn't suffer at all from falling out of public interest. Not for those of us that actually talk to people in game and have friends at least. I very much appreciate that SE lets me play Triple Triad with friends, wish they'd let me do so in my Free Company mansion, but that's a different topic entirely. Duels are exactly the same for us PvPers. It's something to do when you're bored that doesn't require forming an entire party of queuing up for hours.

Nobody wants duels so they can duel all day every day. People want duels because it is a great (some would even say vital) piece of PvP content to do when they're bored. Given the only other PvP content involves us waiting for hours, I'd say a lot of us are bored and would like something to pass the time waiting. If I'm queuing for PvP, it means I want to PvP, that's why duels are the perfect piece of content to pass time waiting.
05-10-2015, 07:58 AM
MilesSaintboroguh

And that's the problem right there. Everyone keeps saying "let us have 1 vs 1 for funsies", but how long is that gonna last? Any content that has little to no rewards behind it get abandoned real quick; I never see anyone play each other in Triple Triad except during tourneys and there's barely anyone doing chocobo races and that's because the rewards behind them pale in comparison to just farming NPCs for MGP at a much faster rate. Duels are going to fall under the same trap and even if they DID give rewards, Square would probably not make them be worth as much as a standard PvP mode to prevent easy farming.
05-10-2015, 09:34 AM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And that's the problem right there. Everyone keeps saying "let us have 1 vs 1 for funsies", but how long is that gonna last? Any content that has little to no rewards behind it get abandoned real quick; I never see anyone play each other in Triple Triad except during tourneys and there's barely anyone doing chocobo races and that's because the rewards behind them pale in comparison to just farming NPCs for MGP at a much faster rate. Duels are going to fall under the same trap and even if they DID give rewards, Square would probably not make them be worth as much as a standard PvP mode to prevent easy farming.

Are you saying that the devs should remove triple triad and chocobo racing? I'd like you to make a new thread on the forums saying just that. I want to see other player's reactions.

Just because you don't have fun with it doesn't mean other people don't.

And no, no rewards for duels.
05-10-2015, 09:46 AM
Gilraen

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.
05-10-2015, 10:17 PM
VargasVermillion

The thing is, this is just something to screw around with and people want, If you don't want it than just don't do it, only 'real' reason would be harassment but again that's easy to avoid.

Doing it in restricted areas takes the fun out of it as well, half the fun of dueling is being able to make your arena within the games world. Restricted areas or not there isn't a real reason for it not to be added, not something intended to earn tomes or prizes with anyway.
05-11-2015, 03:27 AM
Kallera

I'd love to have a sparring option available, they could handle it similar to the fates when HP gets to a certain point the loser, instead of dying, takes a knee or some similar pose of defeat.
05-11-2015, 05:49 AM
HorseBoots

TONIGHT ON GENERAL DISCUSSION: People who don't PvP complain to people who PvP over a hypothetical optional feature to be added in for funzies.

Seriously, OP just wanted to have some 1v1 punching contests. The game wouldn't suddenly turn into Gank Fantasy XIV if they added it in.

Daily reminder that Yoshida has gone on record to say one of his favorite games of all time was Dark Age of Camelot. That dude LOVES PvP.
05-11-2015, 07:05 AM
Crystel_Leah

Bumping this
05-11-2015, 07:07 AM
Nektulos-Tuor

Why does dueling/sparring have to be 1v1?

Why can't you have 10v10?

Or Group vs Group?
05-11-2015, 07:10 AM
VargasVermillion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Why does dueling/sparring have to be 1v1?

Why can't you have 10v10?

Or Group vs Group?

Wolves den is already a thing, but dueling is between 2 people, hence why it's called dueling. Although I don't see why we couldn't have groups doing it as an option.
05-11-2015, 07:11 AM
Nektulos-Tuor

Quote:

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Wolves den is already a thing, but dueling is between 2 people, hence why it's called dueling. Although I don't see why we couldn't have groups doing it as an option.

Wolves Den isn't fun, its not out in the Open World. Fighting in the Open World is a lot different then fighting inside tiny instances.

You should get tokens/rewards for Open World Dueling/Open World PvP as well.
05-11-2015, 08:03 AM
Gilraen

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseBoots

TONIGHT ON GENERAL DISCUSSION: People who don't PvP complain to people who PvP over a hypothetical optional feature to be added in for funzies.

Seriously, OP just wanted to have some 1v1 punching contests. The game wouldn't suddenly turn into Gank Fantasy XIV if they added it in.

Daily reminder that Yoshida has gone on record to say one of his favorite games of all time was Dark Age of Camelot. That dude LOVES PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilraen

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.

I'll be here all week.
05-11-2015, 08:47 AM
Arielyanna

There was a similar sort of pvp/1v1 style combat in XI called Brenner, however it was confined to a specific area (an island atoll iirc). There was also open world group pvp in zones, Ballista. That had a limited window to apply to join via talking to a NPC and then after the window was closed, only those who joined in would be affected. True it was usually nation vs nation, but even if you weren't aligned with one of the nations involved, you could still join in.

Personally, I don't like pvp from my experiences in DCUO and SWTOR, but there's obviously a desire within the community for it. We already have the Wolves Den and Frontlines... have something similar for 1v1. I'd prefer having a set area for it though, not just any open area.
05-12-2015, 06:48 AM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Wolves Den isn't fun, its not out in the Open World. Fighting in the Open World is a lot different then fighting inside tiny instances.

You should get tokens/rewards for Open World Dueling/Open World PvP as well.

I'm all for more PVP modes in this game such as dueling but I think you might meet a lot of backlash if you request open world PVP. It would change the dynamic of this game a lot. People would be ganked while questing or gathering, zone entrances and bridges would be camped, and a whole lot of other acts that are considered griefing would make an appearance. Mercenaries and sellswords would thrive in such an environment as well. I personally do not want to spend gil on hiring a security team to escort me onto the field just to do a few quests and FATEs.
05-12-2015, 07:40 AM
Rhaja

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I'm all for more PVP modes in this game such as dueling but I think you might meet a lot of backlash if you request open world PVP. It would change the dynamic of this game a lot. People would be ganked while questing or gathering, zone entrances and bridges would be camped, and a whole lot of other acts that are considered griefing would make an appearance. Mercenaries and sellswords would thrive in such an environment as well. I personally do not want to spend gil on hiring a security team to escort me onto the field just to do a few quests and FATEs.

To this I can agree. As much fun as it can be, Open World PVP really need's to be restricted to it's own server. That' being said, a duel is confined, and does not effect anyone. Your more likely to get harrassed by the DRG's and WHM's constantly spamming Ring of Thorns and Holy than you will by people dueling on the beat of Costa Del Sol. In a duel your attacks do not effect other players any more than if I was to just go and spam actions next to you. If anything people dueling next to your gather would be a benefit to you because any mobs nearby may end up being killed for you.

Honestly the only responses I've seen is "I don't like it so no one else should enjoy it" and "I'm sensitive".

Again. Actual open world pvp I can agree would not work for the environment this game strives for. Unless PVP servers became a thing I can support keeping this out of FFXIV. Dueling between friends and other players in the open world, not effecting anyone else, is just another way for people to have fun in the open world.
05-12-2015, 08:09 AM
Conradus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhaja

To this I can agree. As much fun as it can be, Open World PVP really need's to be restricted to it's own server. That' being said, a duel is confined, and does not effect anyone. Your more likely to get harrassed by the DRG's and WHM's constantly spamming Ring of Thorns and Holy than you will by people dueling on the beat of Costa Del Sol. In a duel your attacks do not effect other players any more than if I was to just go and spam actions next to you. If anything people dueling next to your gather would be a benefit to you because any mobs nearby may end up being killed for you.

Honestly the only responses I've seen is "I don't like it so no one else should enjoy it" and "I'm sensitive".

Again. Actual open world pvp I can agree would not work for the environment this game strives for. Unless PVP servers became a thing I can support keeping this out of FFXIV. Dueling between friends and other players in the open world, not effecting anyone else, is just another way for people to have fun in the open world.

Here's the most concrete response. It'll take developer time, of which there is only so much. To implement this, there will have to be other things we *don't* get. I'd rather have them do something in the Final Fantasy spirit.
05-12-2015, 08:24 AM
Hyrist

Nope.

Not a PVP Game, so no open world PvP, this includes dueling. Open World PvP (that isn't in some form of instance) is contrary to the cooperative spirit of the Final Fantasy series.

Even if they were dueling made available, it would be under similar restriction as Tetra Master due to the same reasons, location wise. This is to control Duel-offer abuse and provide reason to go to the designated areas.

Class Balancing is non-existent, for PvP, which is why even in Slaughter Mode there are objectives to fight over. PvP here is a team-game. Even dedicated PvPers recognize how little depth and weight it would add to the game vrs creating better PvP matchmaking and better modes than we currently have.
05-12-2015, 08:27 AM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conradus

It'll take developer time, of which there is only so much. To implement this, there will have to be other things we *don't* get. I'd rather have them do something in the Final Fantasy spirit.

What is the Final Fantasy "spirit"? This sounds like a term that someone made up to push an anti-PVP agenda.
05-12-2015, 08:30 AM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyrist

Not a PVP Game, so no open world PvP, this includes dueling.

Open world PVP and dueling are completely different. How can you lump both of these together?
05-12-2015, 08:36 AM
Vlady

The only way this should even be considered an option in this game would be a designated dueling ring where you cannot whisper people while in this instanced zone and shut away from the rest of the world that does not want to go through another headache of wow oriented experiences of being spammed to duel and taunted constantly by e-peen driven teens.
05-12-2015, 11:25 AM
Orspeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

The only way this should even be considered an option in this game would be a designated dueling ring where you cannot whisper people while in this instanced zone and shut away from the rest of the world that does not want to go through another headache of wow oriented experiences of being spammed to duel and taunted constantly by e-peen driven teens.

This. I don't care if people can have duels - i just don't want to see said duels or be exposed to PVP-eople in any way. Out of sight and out of mind? Sure! Go whip em out in private kids ; P
05-12-2015, 11:29 AM
Eul

IMO, no I don't like this idea. It just things to make scumbag people say "u noob cuz reject duel". So, -1 for this post.
05-12-2015, 11:45 AM
Nalien

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conradus

Here's the most concrete response. It'll take developer time, of which there is only so much. To implement this, there will have to be other things we *don't* get. I'd rather have them do something in the Final Fantasy spirit.

Again, PvP content has its own team producing PvP content. Currently they're rehashing Frontlines as much as possible, to the point where we even have an entirely new map for 3.0. Most of us who actually use the content they produce would rather have something relatively simple (duels) than a repeat of Frontlines (Slaughter).

Those of us who actually use the content they produce realize the issues with it (ridiculous queue times) and would rather they fix that instead of adding more modes to split the community over (which just makes queues worse), but failing that we'd rather have something that is very easy to participate in and provides instant PvP gratification. Duels is that content. It requires one other person. If we want to practice, 1v1 balance doesn't really matter. If we want a serious match we can balance it ourselves.

Pretty much the only legitimate reason against duels I've seen is that PvEers are scared of others harassing them. Apparently they all ignore the fact that this doesn't happen already. When was the last time someone harassed you to play Triple Triad with them? Duels don't even need rewards like Triple Triad, so without that there would be little reason for someone to "pick on" someone who doesn't PvP (if duels equated to quick and easy Wolf Marks, I could see people spamming requests with anyone to get an easy win, but I'd suggest duels having no rewards). It would just be something PvPers do while waiting on those 30 minute+ queues.
05-12-2015, 11:54 AM
Dyvid

Open World Dueling, no thanks.

1v1 fight in Ul'dah Coliseum, I can support this.
05-12-2015, 01:06 PM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

IMO, no I don't like this idea. It just things to make scumbag people say "u noob cuz reject duel". So, -1 for this post.

Harassment like that is a considered an offense. Why not just report them and let GMs handle it?
05-12-2015, 02:29 PM
Eul

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Harassment like that is a considered an offense. Why not just report them and let GMs handle it?

Because I just want to make sure it won't happen in future...? :confused:
05-12-2015, 02:31 PM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

Because I just want to make sure it won't happen in future...? :confused:

Why not just stay away from dueling designated areas then?
05-12-2015, 02:33 PM
Kikoten

A friend of mine said to me one day that the only way open world PvP could work in Final Fantasy 14 is if Garlemald became a playable faction. If players had to choose between True Eorzeans (made-up faction name) or Garlemald, they could meet and fight each other in the open world.

But yeah, low-level ganking, trash talking, harassment, "grow a pair," "carebear," etc., etc., etc.
05-12-2015, 02:34 PM
Eul

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Why not just stay away from dueling designated areas then?

Because I give opinion to people who post duel on public area? I'm supporting to duel at place like Ul'dah's Colosseum but no for public place.
05-12-2015, 02:37 PM
Nalien

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

Because I just want to make sure it won't happen in future...? :confused:

There is a deterrent already in place. Duels aren't going to suddenly cause a spike in harassment because of that.

How often does someone harass you to play Triple Triad? How often does someone harass you with trade blocks (when teleporting/etc.) or just verbally?

If someone wants to harass you, they already can. Duels aren't going to change a damned thing. Here's the perfect solution though; Make it so duels require a minimum PvP Rank. Done. PvEers who don't care can't even duel and nobody would be able to challenge you. People would only be able to demand a 1v1 if you'd ever actually PvP'd before.

The only remaining 'issue' is "I don't want to see people dueling", which is an absurd complaint. I honestly don't know why people play an MMO if seeing other people enjoying the game is some kind of issue for them... Why is it OK to have people spamming attacks on a Treasure Hunt mob but duels are somehow an issue? I really cannot understand that mentality...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikoten

A friend of mine said to me one day that the only way open world PvP could work in Final Fantasy 14

Why do people keep equating duels to open world PvP? They are two entirely different things...

Open world PvP in XIV would be perfectly fine if they limited it to a single area though. I could easily see them implementing an open world PvP area which is Grand Company verses Grand Company if the demand is there. Schedule it similar to Besieged in XI, 1 hour Twin Adders attack Maelstroms base, next hour Maelstrom attacks Immortal Flames base, next hour Immortal Flames attack Twin Adders base, then repeat. I actually imagine there would be enough people to participate in such a server based PvP event, seeing as there are plenty of fairly large Frontlines centric Linkshells already.
05-12-2015, 02:37 PM
kpxmanifesto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

Because I give opinion to people who post duel on public area? I'm supporting to duel at place like Ul'dah's Colosseum but no for public place.

Oh. I didn't get that from your previous statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

"IMO, no I don't like this idea. It just things to make scumbag people say "u noob cuz reject duel". So, -1 for this post."

I thought that was a blanket statement saying that you wanted no dueling at all in the game. I misunderstood. Have a +1 like.
05-12-2015, 02:44 PM
Eul

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Oh. I didn't get that from your previous statement.

I thought that was a blanket statement, saying that you wanted no dueling at all in the game. I misunderstood. Have a +1 like.

I like PvP and Frontline, and my PvP rank is 40, of course I like PvP :) . Sorry if I make misunderstood post too :D

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