Gender Swapped DRK and Gunner Fan Art

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Originally Posted by Pavise

This thread is tumblr'ing out of control. Please stop.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who sensed the warning signs in this thread. I already stated my views in both the DRG thread and the DRK thread, so I'll refrain from repeating myself. Personally, I think people should just stop being so damn sensitive to this subject in general and focus on the more important issues this game has, like the RMT spam.

To the OP, nice work on that stuff, lol. I'd imagine that if the DRK armor somehow ended up being skimpy on female characters, that'd be a close example to how it'd be. But since this is TANK armor we speak of, I don't see it happening really. But eh.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

P

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Your argument would be more accurate if every armor in XIV for women was the "Sexy" armor variants, but its not, and its not even close. This game has plenty of armor, I'd say the majority of armor, that is not even remotely scantily clad for women. There is both fanservice and conservative armor in XIV true, but in some of the cases if the armor is scanty for women, it is for men too (Gladiator's for instance). The exception to these being stuff like NIN and DRG AF which I've admitted was just silly. Very rarely are other armor choices in XIV super sexified and revealing for one sex exclusively. Heavy armor in general (Tank armor) is pretty much unisex. Trashcans for all.

Yes, some games out there are ridiculous when it comes to armor choices and if anyone read my first post (hint they didn't) they would see I find these options absurd sometimes because it takes it too far, but XIV is by and far one of the most fair MMOs I've played when it comes to attire options.

Personally when I chose my armor I chose what looks cool, and I find in almost every case armor is identical on men and women. Soldiery, poetics, my Fistfighters jacker and the I.100 dungeon armor... I find that in almost all cases armor is nearly indentical. I think AF for these jobs will be different in small ways but I don't think we'll have anything close to the NIN/DRG debacle.

Also, I agree that AF armor should essentially be unisex. Seriously, I come from FFXI, this is what NIN and DRG armor were there, both sexes shown

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20070420152123

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20070418094611

The only difference being the Pants on either, a "Tights/fishnet" for women and a "Hakama" for men with NIN, and the slight skin showing on the female DRG pants... but in XIV I felt my NIN AF was worthless for glamour because of the boob window, it just looked stupid. If it wasn't so "IF YOU'RE NOT WITH ME 100% YOU'RE AGAINST ME!" you'd see I essentially agree with most points.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

The exception to these being stuff like NIN and DRG AF which I've admitted was just silly.

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I think there's some kind of cultural misstep that we're unaware of when it comes to the design aspect of these two armor sets. While the DRG AF still confuses me a little, I know that the Japanese ideal of female ninja is different than it is for males, and I think that's reflected a little in the AF style change between the genders. I'm actually surprised the female AF gear didn't wind up with more fishnets.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

How dare women (and men) be annoyed at always having female characters in games being treated as nothing more than a walking pair of breasts, and having no options other than scantily clad robes, scantily clad leather gear, or scantily clad platekinis. Yes, what a travesty it would be to the straight men of the world to have no almost-naked females to oggle and harass in an MMO.

Sorry if I don't shed any tears over how those sort of people feel. Maybe it's the fact I and many other women are tired of having no choice in character or armor besides "sexy" or "pedobait sexy".

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The WoL, whether female or male, is treated the same way in this game, no matter how they decide to dress. In either case, we're kicking butt and people are either scared of us or look up to us. Nobody is being portrayed as a "walking pair of breasts", and as you surely noticed, there are tons upon tons of conservative options of attire to wear.

Referring to them as "those sort of people" shows quite clearly where you stand on this matter, and how highly you really value tolerance.

As you say, many people would rather not have other armor sets go down that route - but many other people would like to see just that. Start asking for OPTIONS, please. /bellywindow, for example, just like /visor works. There is no reason both male and female sets have to be one or the other at all. Stop trying to force your preferences on other people, no matter which preferences they may be.

If SE wants to add sexy options, that's fine, but I'd prefer if both males and females got the same option as opposed to men being completely covered and women tanking with their breasts out for the same exact armor set.

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Originally Posted by Teslo

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That is literally my point just in different words. I don't understand why people are not getting what I'm saying. Though I will admit that it seems I misspoke worth that one line everyone jumped on.

I'm also not actually speaking about this game when I talk about this stuff. FFXIV is pretty much what I want all games to be. The issues I'm talking about do not exist in this game and that is amazing and one of the reasons I play it.

I'm indifferent and like both. Regardless, it's SE's game and if I don't like the AF I'll glamor over it. If I like it, I'll keep it.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

And? Why should what men, usually straight white cis men, want matter?

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Reading through the comments.... bahahahahahahaha. Ok, why then why should your opinion matter? You are a vocal minority it seems, thus not where SE can make the most money from. Why should they cater to you? Also I love this thin veil of rightiousness covering a post of utter hate. Those are still people behind the labels you use to pigeonhole people into roles, types, and definitions.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

There is no reason both male and female sets have to be one or the other at all. Stop trying to force your preferences on other people, no matter which preferences they may be.

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I can't "Like" this comment enough.

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Originally Posted by Teslo

I think there's some kind of cultural misstep that we're unaware of when it comes to the design aspect of these two armor sets. While the DRG AF still confuses me a little, I know that the Japanese ideal of female ninja is different than it is for males, and I think that's reflected a little in the AF style change between the genders. I'm actually surprised the female AF gear didn't wind up with more fishnets.

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I edited my post a little with the NIN AF armor from FFXI, and the DRG armor from XI. They're essentially unisex, So it does baffle me a bit why its so different in XIV. Maybe I just really liked XI's NIN af :(

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

Yes, some games out there are ridiculous when it comes to armor choices and if anyone read my first post (hint they didn't) they would see I find these options absurd sometimes because it takes it too far, but XIV is by and far one of the most fair MMOs I've played when it comes to attire options.

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Just because they're relatively decent on their track record of not going TERA and making any female armor show 90% more skin than male armor, doesn't mean they aren't still at fault for when they do decide to have a vast disparity in appearance between male and female. Scylla, DRG AF, NIN AF, BRD AF, Evenstar, and probably more that I'm forgetting at the moment - that's still far too much, and made even worse by the fact they ARE so good at keeping armor relatively the same for both genders. Especially when it comes to the iconic FF gear that the AFs tend to represent, what even is the point in making such disparity and cutting out pieces of the gear for females other than just for some ridiculous sex appeal which ends up annoying a good portion of the game's population?

Make ridiculous gender-disparity all you want with dungeon or crafted gear, or heck do us all a favor and make all revealing female gear revealing on males too, the Twelve know I'd enjoy some more skin on my male characters. But don't cut out random bits and pieces of AF gear just so females will have the "sexy" version. It's ridiculous and unnecessary. And plenty of people in the DRK AF discussion thread aren't happy about the gendered differences in some of the AF pieces we have already.

If SE really wants to have females show skin for the purposes of showing skin and leaving huge gaping "Stab me here!" holes in their gear, then do so for males as well. Least then we'd all be dying in equal amounts.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

I edited my post a little with the NIN AF armor from FFXI, and the DRG armor from XI. They're essentially unisex, So it does baffle me a bit why its so different in XIV. Maybe I just really liked XI's NIN af :(

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Different art direction has a bit to do with it, I'm sure. I imagine that since XI was considerably older there were more limited resources over there. And yeah, the XI NIN AF was awesome. ^_^

O.o lol You can find some mods like that in Skyrim! Already got enough of those... I think the option for players that want that would be nice... As for me I'm the type of guy.. That love his women with clothes on :D soo I think the Current Dark knight set for females is kickazz!

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Just because they're relatively decent on their track record of not going TERA and making any female armor show 90% more skin than male armor, doesn't mean they aren't still at fault for when they do decide to have a vast disparity in appearance between male and female.

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Okay to take a step back here I don't think a small portion of cloth being removed from the neck area of NIN AF and an exposed belly qualify s "Vast disparity", despite how I feel on NIN AF being fugly... but I get what you mean.

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But don't cut out random bits and pieces of AF gear just so females will have the "sexy" version.

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Something I again, agree with. I think AF should be mostly unisex in terms of look because they are designed to look like the iconic jobs in the early FF titles, which... pretty much all of them are really. There should be differences in some pieces based entirely on how each gender is different, like... for instance, the OP's Machinist AF differences I don't think are pandering/fanservice, but practical in what you would see in the real world as difference between male and female casual attire.

Still, I think it'd be cool if every version had the option for a "Sexy" and "Practical" version, toggle-able like Headgear. Everyones happy then. Some people wanna be slu- Sexy.... let em.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

I remember someone mentioning how the Dragoons are tried to fight, well, Dragons. No amount of armor is going to help against alot of there attacks and being mobile is their best bet (gameplay-wise of course its different.) Though it makes me wonder if they complain about the cold.

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^this. It's a fantasy game, why in the hell people try to apply real world physics to it is beyond me. Even in the real world, being more agile is generally the better armor choice. Like the quote says, if a dragon really hit you, unless you are in a tank(even then your chances of survival are meek), you are f***ing dead.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

Something I again, agree with. I think AF should be mostly unisex in terms of look, which... pretty much all of them are. I think it'd be cool if every version had the option for a "Sexy" and "Practical" version, toggle-able like Headgear. Everyones happy then.

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A skirt with fishnet tights, and a boob window on both the Ninja and Bard AF sets is not "unisex". Trust me, I'd love if it was - having one of my more feminine male cats in a tiny skirt would be wonderful. Tightening up the AF for females to accentuate the figure is fine, but just blatantly cutting out whole areas of the outfit for the sake of showing skin or cleavage is just ridiculous. Or in Ninja's case, completely changing what your pants look like.

Once SE starts treating AFs literally exactly unisex, with no disparities between the genders other than perhaps females having a bit more form-fitting gear, then I'll stop being annoyed with them. Until then, I'm going to be annoyed by the sexist artistic choices for some of the AFs all I please.

-suddenly fearful of how the female machinist AF will be treated-

EDIT: If they'd really want, could always give the option of scantily clad versions of the AF gear for both males and females as craftable items. Or items you need a crafted thing to turn in for, a la the Augmented gear. Would give the option as well as give something else for crafters to make bank off of.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

If SE really wants to have females show skin for the purposes of showing skin and leaving huge gaping "Stab me here!" holes in their gear, then do so for males as well. Least then we'd all be dying in equal amounts.

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Men and women already die in equal amounts. Regardless of how revealing your armor is, it has the same stats for both genders.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

Risque DRK
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...pswzfhausf.png

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I remember posting something a while back as a joke about this...

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Originally Posted by Canadane

http://i.imgur.com/KMpPj0w.png

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There is is. From last October. I'm surprised it took someone this long!

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

<

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I'd still continue to believe censoring or removing one type of armor (Scanty or Practical) is not the best option. Both have an equal valid reason to exist and appeal to different types of people. I don't mind differences like a Skirt or Shorts, those don't bother me at all because it seems pretty natural really. While I definitely am of the opinion that unisex AF is what I enjoy... or close to it, I personally do not mind the Fishnet legs on NIN AF in FFXI as opposed to Hakama, I don't think that It should be like that indefinitely or permanently with no option to the contrary... because I know some people like the sexy AF and they have as much a right to ask for that as I do to keep it identical.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the occasional scantily clad armor. I think some of my old glamours involved the Pirate-shirt which was really scantily.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

A skirt with fishnet tights, and a boob window on both the Ninja and Bard AF sets is not "unisex". Trust me, I'd love if it was - having one of my more feminine male cats in a tiny skirt would be wonderful. Tightening up the AF for females to accentuate the figure is fine, but just blatantly cutting out whole areas of the outfit for the sake of showing skin or cleavage is just ridiculous. Or in Ninja's case, completely changing what your pants look like.

Once SE starts treating AFs literally exactly unisex, with no disparities between the genders other than perhaps females having a bit more form-fitting gear, then I'll stop being annoyed with them. Until then, I'm going to be annoyed by the sexist artistic choices for some of the AFs all I please.

-suddenly fearful of how the female machinist AF will be treated-

EDIT: If they'd really want, could always give the option of scantily clad versions of the AF gear for both males and females as craftable items. Or items you need a crafted thing to turn in for, a la the Augmented gear. Would give the option as well as give something else for crafters to make bank off of.

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You're awfully hateful, aren't you?

The simple fact is that a VAST majority of people find "Revealing" armor on women perfectly acceptable for many reasons. Men like women to be sexy. Known fact. It's biologically hammered into us on a genetic level. I make no excuses for what I am. Women also like to be sexy. You might not be comfortable with it, but I know plenty of female players who dress skimpy and scant because it makes THEM as PEOPLE feel better. Judge away but ask yourself, who's really being hurt by that?

That being said, it's not like these armors leave the breasts literally hanging out and wide swaths of skin exposed for no good reason. The areas that are revealed are done so for aesthetic purposes based on the differences between the genders. Again, DRG still boggles me a little. That's the only one in which the aesthetic has me confused... Some people don't like the NIN differences, but some people I know really do. Nothing wrong with that...

Remember, this is FANTASY. If we started having Angel Blade (Look it up if you're brave...) type armors I could understand this level of hate and anger coming from the playerbase. But as it is now? These issues are WAY out of proportion.

Hehehe, i remember Angel Blade

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

The "I know plenty of girls who wanna dress scantily clad" does not mean you know what every single woman in the world likes or dislikes

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No offense man, seriously, sorry, but for someone who just spoke this sentence you seem to not get that people do in fact like different things and men and women are just different... and thats okay, and both have a right to exist... You may even sometimes say you the option for both would be fine but everything you ooze keeps saying "Its not what I want so its the devil".

If thats not what you're trying to say then you're not representing yourself well because I keep trying to read your posts from a neutral ground but it always seems like you're nearly passively holding back a deep hatred for white cis men and the patriarchy... despite the fact i do agree with some of your points. And no, its not sarcasm, I really am trying to read and understand things from your point of view.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

boop

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Because representing myself well is definitely what I was going for.

Perhaps it's the years and years of being told my worth as a person is measured by what men (usually heterosexual white men in positions of power) think of me. Perhaps it's the fact many women in the world are treated as just possessions or a pair of walking breasts made solely for the pleasure of men to ogle.

Perhaps I'm just wanting men to feel uncomfortable by seeing half naked mancats all over the place. Actually no, it's definitely leaning towards that last one.

Being serious for a moment, I'm fine with options. But keep the options out of something that's meant to be an iconic representation of Final Fantasy classes. You want skanky platekinis, then SE should add a craftable version of AF gear that's scantily-clad. Or make it a turn-in item like Augment. Whatever works better for them as far as how they want to implement something by way of anything that isn't the cash shop.

But leave the iconic image and armor of a class the same for males and females. Not like it's impossible to make a full-covering plate armor sexy - just look at Livia.

The gender disparity between male and female AF gear for some classes annoys me about as much as iconic class /cposes being changed between genders for literally no reason. I am salty as seawater about female DRG's battle /cpose. And I don't even have a female DRG.

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feel uncomfortable by seeing half naked mancats all over the place

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There was a tank in my FC who did this. Also, this is already an option.

Emperor's new clothes and Gladiator's set :3

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Perhaps it's the fact many women in the world are treated as just possessions or a pair of walking breasts made solely for the pleasure of men to ogle.

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Wut.

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The gender disparity between male and female AF gear for some classes annoys me about as much as iconic class /cposes being changed between genders for literally no reason. I am salty as seawater about female DRG's battle /cpose. And I don't even have a female DRG.

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I'd actually prefer the iconic Kain pose myself.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

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And especially don't speak for women. The "I know plenty of girls who wanna dress scantily clad" does not mean you know what every single woman in the world likes or dislikes. Plenty more women also dislike or feel uncomfortable showing skin. One main reason being men like you who think you can just oggle and whistle at females because "it's biologically hammered into us to find girls sexy". Please stop even trying to argue, you are really not making a case for yourself whatsoever.

Literally I'm just so baffled right now by your level of offensive stupid that I can't even bother to answer your whole "weh weh aesthetics" thing. Never did I need a stiffer glass of vodka than I do now.

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<3 You understand why people need options. We all have our own comfort levels, and believe me, I was NOT comfortable in my Boob Coatee of Gathering phase, especially working in Coerthas - the guys all got to stay warm. Options for the new armor ( and all armor with obvious sex differences) are needed - glamours are just a bit too pricey to be a practical solution. Also, I would share my vodka with you if you were here, cheers!

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

I've created a monster! But turnabout is fair play I suppose. If girls are to be scantily clad;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0q1ufxqm.png

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I wish this was real... lol

Wouldn't it be hilarious if this was the male version this time around, and girls got the covered up armor for a change.

I mean, think about it, a macho guy wouldn't need the armor right? Think of Hildibrandt's Dad, he fights honestly, in his bare skin! :p If you have so much skill, you don't need armor!

Girls can be the ones in the badass armor this time around. Guys, you'd let us wear your coat if we got cold right? What kind chevalier are you? :x

This patch, guys should be the white knights that we know they are and lend girls their protective armor. Girls have been chilly way too long. :P

I like your take on the armor sets. While I already like the original sets I wouldn't mind both the comedy and the skimpy DRK gear.

I think people are mistaking opinions for fact far too much here, and there's far too many people quick to judge anyone who's opinion doesn't mesh with their own. We've long departed from the original post too, which was one artists take on a 'sexy' armor, not some canonical appearance.

You like sexy gear? Fine. I don't share your opinion, but I can respect it. You like more coverage? That's also fine.

This post has deviated so far from the point that it's now setting up camp in another country. To the OP I say, lovely artistry. Do you have a site you post your artwork to usually?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

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This post has deviated so far from the point that it's now setting up camp in another country. To the OP I say, lovely artistry. Do you have a site you post your artwork to usually?

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Thankyou! Um, no not really, although I really probably should, considering I work professionally in the game industry. I just really like this game and the designs, so it really is fan art. Although I'd be remiss if I didn't recognize that with that comes some responsibility (hence the covered up female, and male version)

I think debates like this are good though, as long as we keep civil with one another, otherwise it becomes pointless because no one wants to read pages of flaming tirades. SE is a pretty responsible company when it comes to designs and freedom of choice, and this post is just a good reminder of what to think about when designing for such a wide, global audience. But we have to remember, from any side, that social norms will be different from region to region, on both macro and micro social levels.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

I think debates like this are good though, as long as we keep civil with one another, otherwise it becomes pointless because no one wants to read pages of flaming tirades.

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LMAO! Do not hold ye breathe my friend! I've been around to see many of folks get sent to hell and back on these here forums.
Once in a blue moon do you see a debate where people just cannot chew their faces or even apologize for blatant mistakes and keep going with their tunnel vision ways of life.
This is hilarious now. Again, will never have nice things because people on NA forums have to become keyboard hero's.

Perfect time for when I'd screenied someones post a while back:
http://i58.tinypic.com/j8e2ax.png
This just in this: Tumblr reinforcements have arrived!
I mean Jeebin's Christ. Calm down people lol!

I wouldn't make a mountain over a molehill out of this. it's very doubtful that SE is going to make the DRK af gear unecessary revealing, how many tank sets are actually revealing in a ridiculous sense anyway? the post-50 gear, not glamours. (hint: less than 1)

just harmless fanart.

From what I've seen the gear that is extremely revealing on female characters in this game is equally if not more revealing on men. So my point is.

If the female DRK is going to be skimpy, the male one should be too.

Fair is fair, yah?

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Snip

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H-how did I arrive on tumblr...?

I seriously wonder if any of you tumblrites have ever seen what real life women wear, especially in summer. I guess they're all objectifying themselves though.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

Risque DRK
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...pswzfhausf.png

Female Gunner somewhere inbetween conservative and sexy;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1kbrzup4.png

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haha i like it ;D

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

I REALLY like this look, I'd honestly probably main drk if it looked anything like that.

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I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea in the MMO World but dayum this looks great!!! I agree I would main a DRK if I could look like this! I hope female DRK can have something similiar.