New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Yeah, that's really stupid. I even have a friend who really wanted to play a gun job, but he's probably not even going to play the game now if he can't do it from the beginning.

It's really not that hard to just let you go to ishgard if the guilds /have/ to be there.



No other MMO has ever locked a new class behind anything. Once you bought the expansion you could go right away. Only exception being classes that didn't start at level 1, but even then that didn't require you getting to level cap, just whatever level they started at.

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Number of jobs in this game that you can play from the beginning: Zero.

Also, that last part is just blatantly untrue. Buying WoW, BC, and WotLK did not entitle you to play Death Knight.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Number of jobs in this game that you can play from the beginning: Zero.

Also, that last part is just blatantly untrue. Buying WoW, BC, and WotLK did not entitle you to play Death Knight.

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Now you're just nitpicking. The base classes are the same thing with a different name, and there's a difference between getting to level 30 and having to get to level cap as well as catching up on several months of story.

Also, as you must not have read, you could be a death knight the instant you got another class to level 55. That wasn't even level cap when it was released, and was perfectly justified. Getting level 55 didn't even take long and is the equivalent of getting level 30 in this game.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

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The base classes are not the same thing with a different name. There's an entire branch of content locked to the base classes, that only the jobs can enjoy.

As for the second part, I'll admit I missed the last sentence, partially because I caught you in between edits and had to read it in the reply box and accidentally skipped part of it. That said, though, in WoW you had to level to nearly the cap, which you would probably do by questing. Here, you have to level almost to cap, which is most easily done by doing the main scenario anyway. I'm really, really not seeing the problem.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

The base classes are not the same thing with a different name. There's an entire branch of content locked to the base classes, that only the jobs can enjoy.

As for the second part, I'll admit I missed the last sentence, partially because I caught you in between edits and had to read it in the reply box and accidentally skipped part of it. That said, though, in WoW you had to level to nearly the cap, which you would probably do by questing. Here, you have to level almost to cap, which is most easily done by doing the main scenario anyway. I'm really, really not seeing the problem.

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The thread is about not being able to play Machinist, Astrologian, and Dark Knight without completing the ENTIRE plot, up until where we are currently at.
That would take a new player months, assuming they only play a couple hours a day....you really don't see a problem with requiring a new player to do months of work just to play the one class they may care about?


It's going to hurt sales of this game hard. As I said, I have a friend who won't play this game unless he's able to use guns, and now he won't play the game at all because he'd have to play something else to 50+ and do 6 patches worth of storyline just to see if he likes it or not. That is ridiculous.
If it was just leveling to level 30, that'd be fine, but requiring the entire story just to play a machinist and the rest? That is stupid.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

No other MMO has ever locked a new class behind anything. Once you bought the expansion you could go right away. Only exception being classes that didn't start at level 1, but even then that didn't require you getting to level cap, just whatever level they started at.

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Refer to the examples I've listed above and the requirements that were required to even play them.
You act like getting level 30 is some terrible punishment (Or whatever level required to play in their respective mmos), doing the main storyline in it's entirety only takes a month (Or less if you're hardcore on catching up), if new players are going to whine about a little bit of work to reach a goal and getting an expansion pack to access things associated with it, then they probably shouldn't be playing mmorpgs, let alone games (Especially if they have DLC if that's going to be such a huge problem).

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

Refer to the examples I've listed above and the requirements that were required to even play them.
You act like getting level 30 is some terrible punishment (Or whatever level required to play in their respective mmos), doing the main storyline in it's entirety only takes a month (Or less if you're hardcore on catching up), if new players are going to whine about a little bit of work to reach a goal and getting an expansion pack to access things associated with it, then they probably shouldn't be playing mmorpgs, let alone games (Especially if they have DLC if that's going to be such a huge problem).

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Your examples were pretty poor, as I already said getting to a certain level is fine. WoW only required level 55 to play death knight, which as I already stated is the equivalent of level 30 in this game in how long it takes. No big deal. Requiring over a month of work just to play a class though? Stupid.

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

Because requiring brand new players - which one can only assume they're desperately trying to attract by selling XIV/Heavensward bundles - to grind through an entire game's worth of obsolete content in order to access the expansion **snip** ain't nobody got time for all that shit.

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In my personal your point of view and attitude are utterly cancerous to both the game and the community, you are dismissing the story as obsolete shit, to use YOUR words. Frankly, i think those words are a far more apt description of your view.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

That would take a new player months, assuming they only play a couple hours a day....you really don't see a problem with requiring a new player to do months of work just to play the one class they may care about?.

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Newsflash! MMORPGs take time to play. Shocking I know, but there you go. If you want an MMORPG without a story thst takes some time to complete, then you'll be better off with a open world sand box game, as would anyone coming to *this* game looking for an MMORPG bereft of story.

That would be a pretty awful idea seeing as there are quite a few people I know who are excited about joining FFXIV specifically to play these new jobs.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

The thread is about not being able to play Machinist, Astrologian, and Dark Knight without completing the ENTIRE plot, up until where we are currently at.
That would take a new player months, assuming they only play a couple hours a day....you really don't see a problem with requiring a new player to do months of work just to play the one class they may care about?

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At a couple of hours a day, you can knock out a patch of story per day, fairly easily. With rested XP, there's no way the main scenario of 2.0 should take more than a few weeks. Where are you getting your time frames from?

Remember when people thought NIN was gated by the main story and had a mini panic attack?

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

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Ask your friend to start playing now, so he can catch up and become a machinist when the expansion hits. If he doesn't like it because he can't do it right away, well, that's his problem. We still don't know how things are going to be when the time comes, since Yoshi-p is always modifiying stuff on the go, we're still almost 3 months away from the expansion. I've waited for like 2 years to become a DRK...

And the "No MMO did this before" argument is something that I completely ignore when people state that. If I ever mention it, it's under request or to use it as a counter-argument when mentioned. People critize things because either "Every MMO does it and sucks" or "No MMO does it and they should". What about letting them have their own politics?

The expansion is not only "3 new classes", it's a lot of content bundled together, which includes new classes or jobs... or whatever they call it. Lore-wise (Because this is a Final Fantasy game. It implies it's a story-driven MMO), it makes sense. Why would you be trained in a job that doesn't belong to your lands? You need to migrate there and the story will lead you through said path. You'll unlock plenty of stuff on the way.

/edit: Silly character limit. Remove that pls.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

You'll unlock plenty of stuff on the way.

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http://hrschoolhouse.com/wp-content/...eruca-Salt.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Why would you be trained in a job that doesn't belong to your lands?

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To be fair, NIN, WAR, MNK, DRG... all not native practices. DRG is especially important here as it's an Ishgardian job.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Also some of the posts in this thread just appall me. Requiring a month and a half of work for new players to get to actual relevant content or to get to play the only class they may care about doesn't strike you as bad design AT ALL?

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Despite my earlier comments on the MSQ not being as fast to complete as others have claimed, a month and a half is a very large overstatement of how long it would take.
It would not take anywhere that long.

That said, I remember when simply leveling to max level took much longer then that in WoW...and it was an extremely fast leveling game at the time, compared to other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Honestly it makes me worry about this game's future. There's no way it'll last as long as say, WoW, with this design choice.

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From start to current WoW has made very nearly only poor design choices. Yet despite that (or because of that?) it lasted this long.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

No other MMO has ever locked a new class behind anything.

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You've not played many MMOs I take it. To give Ragnarok Online as example. Transcendant classes were only available once you maxed your level (level 99), which took an exceeding amount of time.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

As I said, I have a friend who won't play this game unless he's able to use guns, and now he won't play the game at all

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Maybe he should play a different game then. Because at current this game has no gun classes at all, and it doesnt sound like a game he would enjoy playing.

Doing the main scenario is now "gating content"? lol. This is the equivalent of complaining you don't get your chocobo/retainers at level 1 or that you aren't given all your skills right away.

It seems SE is going with "advance jobs" like FFXI did with anything post ARR. Like how many of the job quest unlocks were in higher level areas, the new ones in FFXIV will be in level 50 Ishguard.

These new jobs require some investment to get them unlike the base jobs, so if a player wants to get it then they'll have to do the SUPER HARD MSQ.

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

It's normal for things to be gated behind expansions:

WOW: want to experience this awesome stuff? TOO BAD! get WOTLK <some other expansions> and level 55!
GW1 wanted to get to Elonia? TOO BAD! Get GW: Eye of the north!
FFXI: Wanted to get to these snazzy places with new jobs? TOO BAD! Get COP, TOAU, WOTG <insert other expansions here> and get level 30 to unlock the quests

I don't know if you're new to the mmorpg scene but this has been the norm since MMORPGs existed.

It doesn't even take that long to get through the main story nor level, at least a month 1/2 or so.

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Forgot WoW locked Death Knight too. This isn't even a new thing!

Hmm, I guess it must just be me that finds the many quests that require the duty finder to be the main hurdle to MSQ completion.

Pretty fun: doing eleventy zillion story quests
Oh please no: having said story quests include ~20 waits in the DF queue for instances that may or may not be difficult for you that you must do at specific points in order to progress the story

Then again, I'm not as big on grouping as some folks are. I certainly do enjoy group instances, but not every darn time I fire up the game, y'know? ^^;

It is a disappointment, but I can live with not being able to pick up Astrologian as soon as I'd like. I'll just continue to plod along and look forward to, at least, playing an Au Ra. <3

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

To be fair, NIN, WAR, MNK, DRG... all not native practices. DRG is especially important here as it's an Ishgardian job.

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Well, you know the saying FFXIV is a story driven MMO....until it's not and the lore team works around the lore for the dev team i.e. new players as Au Ra, us even having male chocobos for racing, dyeable artifact gear dropping etc.

It was said at the fanfest that lore comes second to the whims of the developers. The dev team decides what they are going to do and then the lore team fills in the blanks. Sure, as of now/that last interview, the jobs/ishgard access is being gated, but if the dev team wanted to open them up, lore would be the last thing to keep them from doing it. Especially when they can throw a "Machinist Guild Envoy" somewhere in Coerthas and call it a day.

I do feel like XIV has its base jobs set and will probably keep these extra jobs in Ishgard as a goal for new players though.

As for the gate, meh I could go either way. I'm not affected yet. I'm sure they'll look into ways at making the DF dungeons more accessible though, be it requiring us to re do them for things (a la roulette and the relics) to the FC squad thing they briefly talked about.

This will be amusing to see how this plays out. All the people who defend the story gating of certain content. Will you all be happy when at 60 you have to run Toto-rak for the 1000th time.

Because they are going to have to force you to go back and do story dungeons or add NPCs. You have never seen any thread or actual player complain about being forced into low dungeons through books or roulette. Also how much community good will are 60s going to have when they have to run the praetorium because its in the level 60 story roulette. You think anyone in df is going to wait for a CS.

We also don't know what level the new jobs will be if they are over 30 they will skip that awesome content. So no influx through that means to carry people for the first couple months.

It is fine to defend the Lore of the game. But also have to look forward to how to grow the player base. I have seen enough Lore defenders obliterated any hope of pvp taking any hold in this game.

What?!

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

This will be amusing to see how this plays out. All the people who defend the story gating of certain content. Will you all be happy when at 60 you have to run Toto-rak for the 1000th time.

Because they are going to have to force you to go back and do story dungeons or add NPCs. You have never seen any thread or actual player complain about being forced into low dungeons through books or roulette. Also how much community good will are 60s going to have when they have to run the praetorium because its in the level 60 story roulette. You think anyone in df is going to wait for a CS.

We also don't know what level the new jobs will be if they are over 30 they will skip that awesome content. So no influx through that means to carry people for the first couple months.

It is fine to defend the Lore of the game. But also have to look forward to how to grow the player base. I have seen enough Lore defenders obliterated any hope of pvp taking any hold in this game.

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Trying to find the relevance here.

I have a Zeta and PvP heavily. I know a thing or two about revisiting old content. The essence of this game is indeed returning to old content. Nothing new, nothing loss. I already run Praetorium and CM, so again nothing new. People already do not wait for those watching cut scenes. Again, nothing new. It's bad, but if you're new you are going to watch them anyway. 10/10, you will be back to actually participate.

tl;dr

I'd much rather have a player who cares for the story line than one who does not. This is not your pick up and go Call of Duty DLC ( which I also play). A player who commits is often one that will stick around which is good for the community/player base and generating revenue. Someone who only intended to level one job ( which happens to be one of the new ones) it likely to be around for a short period of time.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

This will be amusing to see how this plays out. All the people who defend the story gating of certain content. Will you all be happy when at 60 you have to run Toto-rak for the 1000th time.

Because they are going to have to force you to go back and do story dungeons or add NPCs. You have never seen any thread or actual player complain about being forced into low dungeons through books or roulette. Also how much community good will are 60s going to have when they have to run the praetorium because its in the level 60 story roulette. You think anyone in df is going to wait for a CS.

We also don't know what level the new jobs will be if they are over 30 they will skip that awesome content. So no influx through that means to carry people for the first couple months.

It is fine to defend the Lore of the game. But also have to look forward to how to grow the player base. I have seen enough Lore defenders obliterated any hope of pvp taking any hold in this game.

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What does this have anything to do with gating jobs? A new player isn't going to do anything in Ishguard because everything there is level 50+! Them having a DRK or not isn't going to change that lol.

WoW gated content and they didn't seem to have the problem. Heck, TBC was probably one of the most gatey (besides vanilla) and was where their playerbase grew them most. Then they gated a job in the expansion after. FFXI also gates jobs and didn't run into problems.

This isn't a new thing.

Yes, why should we have to wait for anything, they should make it so we start at max lvl, have all jobs/classes unlocked, highest tier gear in our armory, a large plot with a house on it, and 100 billion gil.... then we can make threads complaining about there being nothing to do.

WoW does this with each expansion. It releases a new job, but gates it behind a few requirements. I think the DRK in that game you need to have a character at 55 and the right expansion as well.

I'm just going to note this isn't unusual by my knowledge of MMORPGs. Those that have had class unlocking mid-game (eg XIV style job swapping, or promotional branches, or whatever) have always required you to reach whatever location in order to be able to access them.

That's not to say I always agree with it, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

WoW does this with each expansion. It releases a new job, but gates it behind a few requirements. I think the DRK in that game you need to have a character at 55 and the right expansion as well.

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WoW did it with only 1 class.

They understood it was a mistake and let Monk be playable from the get go.

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Originally Posted by Magis

What does this have anything to do with gating jobs? A new player isn't going to do anything in Ishguard because everything there is level 50+! Them having a DRK or not isn't going to change that lol.

WoW gated content and they didn't seem to have the problem. Heck, TBC was probably one of the most gatey (besides vanilla) and was where their playerbase grew them most. Then they gated a job in the expansion after. FFXI also gates jobs and didn't run into problems.

This isn't a new thing.

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See you see it as Death Knight I see it more if they required you to finish Molten core or some other content to go through the gate to be able to start a Blood Elf. The dark portal might have had a level requirement but it couldn't have been very high since you couldn't start any quests before going through. Memory is vague but wasn't the quest just click a few NPC's?

Any Gate in WoW was 100% soloable there was no dungeon you couldn't do yourself just raids and the top level dungeons. Which were possible after the cap was raised and you could grind and do the content. Within the current system gates that affect new players will force them to make old players do that stuff over. That is the point.

If the new classes start at 50. I will personally PM you and apologize for thinking you aren't seeing the big picture and being an apologist.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

See you see it as Death Knight I see it more if they required you to finish Molten core or some other content to go through the gate to be able to start a Blood Elf.

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That would be if SE required you to finish Coil. Which they aren't. Because that would be dumb.

Kinda late in replying to this, but yeah.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

I think I have posted this a hundred times now, this thread included, but I'll repeat myself once more.

DISCLAIMER I have only played FFXI before this game (forgive me, though I don't get what's so sinful about it, everyone gets angry when I say I have...), so I will compare it to FFXI because it's all I can do.

The first expansion's story was tied to the base game's story, much like Heavensward and ARR. But the jobs? No. The new areas (excluding endgame areas of course), no. They were packed with dangerous high level monsters, of course, but it provided still chances for exploration for the sneaky newbie to take a look around. And all the following expansions after that one (CoP, ToAU, WotG, ACP, AMK, ASA, SoA) did not require the base game's completion, but rather provided new stories, new ambientations and new things to do, "expanding" what can be done in Vana'diel and what stories could be told. Areas were easily accessible after one or two of the EXPANSION's quests, not the base game's quests, at any level. Sure you needed high level survive the content, but jobs and exploration were always allowed to the newer player as well, with only a lv30 requirement to unlock the jobs (much like we have with all jobs excluding Heavensward's so far). So point one, no, not all MMOs have done what SE is doing now, there is at least one who didn't, and I'm sure if I knew more MMOs I could find more.

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Looking back at FFXI, yes we had access to the new areas and the expansion stories without completing the original FFXI main scenario (which was pretty bare bones unlike XIV:ARR's story). Rise of the Zilart was merely tied into the main story of XI, in order to progress through it past a certain point you had to have defeated the Shadow Lord in the main quest if I recall.

The other expansions were not tied directly into the main story (Promathia kind of was I think, but not to the extent that Zilart was), and as such were able to allow you into the new zones unhindered by anything other than enemy monsters that will aggro you. They were not tied to the death of the Shadow Lord, and were completely separated from the main scenario. The cities added by the expansions were also not tied to the main scenario, so heading to Al Zhabi and the Tavnazian Safehold had no affect on the original FFXI story.

Heavensward, however, is tied directly into very specific events in 2.0-2.55. Before those events you can not enter Ishgard despite the city existing within the main scenario. The story states that they closed themselves off to pretty much everyone. Being able to travel to and fro Ishgard before the point in the 2.55 story would be a huge plot hole when the main story has characters like Alphinaud stating many times that Ishgard has closed off itself from outsiders. Therefore it makes perfect sense to gate off access to Ishgard (and by extension, access to the 3 new jobs) until players reach that point in the story.

I don't think we know if new zones in Heavensward will be gated off (aside from Ishgard and other story gated stuff). Coerthas will likely be expanded and I'm sure people who have the expansion, but have not progressed through 2.55, will be able to wander into those zones much like we were able to head to Altepa Desert and Rabao in FFXI without doing the main story (used those because they were accessible only with the Zilart expansion if I recall, it's like a zone with a hamlet like Western Thanalan and Horizon).

I'm not going to be surprised if the expansion after Heavensward will do the same for story reasons (we still have Ala Mihgo, Sharlayan [or whatever it's called], and other continents like where Garlemald is to travel to). I also won't be surprised if they pull and FFXI and make an expansion not tied directly into the main story that everyone can get access to.

Final Fantasy XI gated advanced jobs behind a level 30 gate and some of them were not available unless you bought the expansion and had access to the corresponding areas. Why should FFXIV be any different? I don't mind the gate.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

This will be amusing to see how this plays out. All the people who defend the story gating of certain content. Will you all be happy when at 60 you have to run Toto-rak for the 1000th time.

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Here's the real issue:
"New" players who want to play with their friends who have already played the game for a while. So while the new players are stuck on the 2.x content, their friends are roaming around the 3.x content, possibly keeping spoilers in check. Will such friends want to "never" visit the 3.x area while they drag their 2.x MSQ friend through the storyline at breakneck speed? Hardly.

Just from experiences in other games. "Gating Content" vs "Gating Skills/classes/jobs" are different mechanisms.

If you do NOT own Heavensward, then you do not get to experience the storyline or select these jobs/classes/skills for yourself. But it is inevitable that the assets used by the players (gear mainly) has to make it's way into the 2.x content otherwise people without the 2.x content simply will not be able to play with 3.x players. That only gates people without the expansion from actually going into the 3.x area.

This the first statement of "Only available inside Ishgard" , meaning that you can't select these unless you have a class at level 30, much in the same way you need to get a class to level 30 before the Jobs for that class are available. How these Jobs are accessed however we aren't given any information. Is it going to be a another Soul Crystal, or is it going to straight up be another weapon that starts at level 30. It would seem absolutely silly to have a player complete the MSQ, and then if they want to play any of the new jobs they have to start back at level 1 again.

That leads to the next statement of "Must be level 50 and complete the MSQ to get the introduction to Ishgard" ... yeah but that still doesn't mean Ishgard is locked away without it. It's a new area, not a new dungeon. It's far more likely that if you haven't completed the MSQ, you don't get the introduction (cue your character riding in on the cart like in V2.0 with Alph), no tutorial messages, and no quest markers for the Storyline. The guild quests were never part of the storyline, and unless you hit level 30 in a certain class, the Job quests weren't available either. So I speculate that if you are "only" level 30 DoM/DoW, and you somehow get into Ishgard... eg walking, there will be a quest marker for the new three jobs, but nothing else, so none of the dungeon content will be unlockable. If you complete the MSQ, then the main storyline for 3.0 unlocks all the quests for unlocking the dungeons and such. If you have a level 50 DoL/DoH there will likely be quests for you regardless of your progress in the V2 or V3 MSQ.

The last statement goes back to the actual race selection. Players being able to pick Au Ra right out of the gate seems problematic if they don't start in the Heavensward area, as nothing in the game lore has really hinted where they come from. I'll assume there is a storyline reason for it, and there will be a different starting area for them that leads back into the V2 MSQ, but even if there isn't, there is bound to be changes to the lore to give a retcon to this.

Just based on other games, storyline content tends to require linear progression but unless it's really daunting there is no reason to offer a shortcut through the storyline. It's far more likely that a shortcut through the V2 time-sinks will be pushed through (eg the Relic weapon) so that a player isn't spending a month chasing Atmas, Alexandrite just to get their Relic weapon up to par with the craftable gear in the V3 area.

Because we meet the people that teach them IN Ishgard, what's not to understand about it, really? It's fine, everythings gonna be fiiiiiiiine

http://media.tumblr.com/3abfd27c93b2...09t1rl0vai.gif

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

I'm just going to note this isn't unusual by my knowledge of MMORPGs. Those that have had class unlocking mid-game (eg XIV style job swapping, or promotional branches, or whatever) have always required you to reach whatever location in order to be able to access them.

That's not to say I always agree with it, but it is what it is.

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It reminds me of changing my class in Ragnarok Online. Ahhh, having to run through maps filled with mobs deadly to you. As well as collection of items. (some of which rare)
Good times.

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Originally Posted by WHS

Final Fantasy XI gated advanced jobs behind a level 30 gate and some of them were not available unless you bought the expansion and had access to the corresponding areas. Why should FFXIV be any different? I don't mind the gate.

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No one is asking for jobs to be available to those who do not buy the expansion, but to not require story completion to unlock, just like the expansion jobs in FFXI did not. There's a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

No one is asking for jobs to be available to those who do not buy the expansion, but to not require story completion to unlock, just like the expansion jobs in FFXI did not. There's a big difference.

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Story completion is central to the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

See you see it as Death Knight I see it more if they required you to finish Molten core or some other content to go through the gate to be able to start a Blood Elf.

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Wat.

No. Just no. If they told you to beat Twintania, then yeah maybe. However making a bunch of dungeons and trials which are faceroll easy is not even remotely close to getting 40 people together and practice wipe after wipe on the first raid of WoW.

Basically SE makes you go to (the FFXIV equivalent of) Deadmines, Scarlet Monastery, Zul Farak, etc instead of making it optional. However a new player will go to dungeons ANYWAY cause they can level there much faster.

So the complaints are:

1) Potential long waits on older content when trying to just get new jobs unlocked. (Solo Dungeon with NPCs is being implemented, nothing to worry about)
2) Gated content is unfair. (well as the old saying goes "the world is unfair"; get over it, this is not really a legitimate problem just people talking for the sake of hearing themselves speak)
3) Jobs should be available at level 1--new players starting the game. (These have already been classified as "ADVANCED JOBS" and as such are not "INTRODUCTORY JOBS" like the ones already given)
4) All jobs should be available at lv30 like in FFXI. (This is not FFXI, while the condition to start the job quest is unknown, it is at the will of the development team and no one else, its their vision an the job's complexity might require a more adapt player in the game's mechanics thus making it a different--higher--level requirement to unlock)
5) 2.0's story is sooooo long! (It can be completed in roughly 10-15 hours, faster if you just skip all the cut scenes; which is less time than what it would take you to level up 1-60)

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

5) 2.0's story is sooooo long! (It can be completed in roughly 10-15 hours, faster if you just skip all the cut scenes; which is less time than what it would take you to level up 1-60)

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Is that even a "reason"? I know some people have posted that, but FF games are all about the story and I am sure the majority of new players want to experience it.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

So the complaints are:

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That list sounds more like a list of complaints from you.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Is that even a "reason"? I know some people have posted that, but FF games are all about the story and I am sure the majority of new players want to experience it.

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A number of things are locked behind it. Without clearing all of the story you can't unlock trial roulette for example. You wont have expert and high level either untill your pretty far along. And you cant do low level roulette with a premade group (fc or friends), so your missing out on that for the hours that you havent been able to complete the MSQ yet.
There's also other things to do in the game then MSQ. Omega mentions 10-15 hours, thats about the amount you need for the level 50 stuff. So it would be better to compare it to leveling from 51-60.


Time needed would be less an issue if the reliability of getting groups for duty wasnt as poor as it is right now. Its still quite doable, but it takes more time; and people can be put off from completeing the MSQ.

Hmm... if the jobs are inside Ishgard itself, I don't see how anyone who hasn't completed the msq will be able to access them.

What I think is POSSIBLE is that the job npcs will end up being in new areas, but not necessarily inside Ishgard city itself. It simply doesn't make sense story wise for people to be able to walk into Ishgard whenever. So if they want to have people be able to access the new jobs before then, they must be in a different location. I assume new parts of Coerthas will become available, so maybe there...

I'm ambivalent whether this gating is a bad thing. I think it in the end personally, it'll be the implementation in concert with other aspects:

- Whether the advanced jobs will start at level 1 or a higher level. (ala Death Knight in WOW as some more experienced MMO folks have earlier pointed out)
- Content / pacing for leveling the jobs and their job quests.
- If the advanced jobs start at a higher level, whether Roulettes will still require completion of the main story dungeons to queue for them.
- What cross-class skills can be used by the new jobs.

Personally, it'd be refreshing if the advanced jobs can progress solely on Heavensward content instead of relying on 2.x content. I'd still level it either way I guess.

Yes, it's disappointing for our friends that would like to play the new jobs off the bat but if the advanced jobs start at a higher level, it might not be so bad. We'd take the perspective that it's unlocking a job perhaps similar to how we may have needed to level a class we're disinterested in to unlock our jobs in 2.x and for our cross-class skills.

I don't think its so disruptive now but i kind of wonder if they also intend for the completion of 2.0 AND 3.0 story for when we have 4.0 classes or 5.0 etc etc.