Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

wonder what Hildi would think about all of this...

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Originally Posted by ruskie

While some people seem saddened/infuriated by the reactions of the other leaders the way I see it: you are a guest of another city state that is having it's own internal affairs - it is not your place to meddle in the affairs of their state. For me if anything the respect for both leaders grew at that point; their bodyguards understood that - which is why they got reminded about it.

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I'd buy that if a few cutscenes before they hadn't stressed how important the alliance between the three nations is, to the point of even ignoring Ishgard's plea in favour of defending their alliance. Then, when the alliance unravels before their very eyes and an important leader and friend of said alliance gets attacked, they just leave? Wut? So much for the Eorzean Alliance coming second, Merlwyb.

I still have my suspicions about Nanamo Ul Namo's fate. For those who say it would cheapen the drama of Rhaubahn's rampage if she was alive, I disagree. Fact is, we saw her drink from the cup and fall to the ground. Nobody checked her pulse. Rhaubahn only got told she was dead, he was not allowed to go see her and her death was "confirmed" by the lady-in-waiting who was in cahoots with Teledji and Lolorito, so her word is without any value. The scene afterwards with Lolorito and the lady-in-waiting in the hallway also further raises my suspicions. There are poisons that can make a person look and feel dead, only to awaken again when given the antidote. It's often used by important characters to fake their deaths (Captain America: The Winter Soldier springs to mind as an example). It could be they intended to fake the Sultana's death to make Rhaubahn commit treason, then keep her alive to keep him and the Immortal Flames in check while he's in jail. I don't know, something just feels off about the whole thing.

Or she really is dead and that's the end of it.

I also have to agree with those who find Tataru's behaviour suspicious. It's hard to deny that something was off about her during her quest in Limsa Lominsa. I do admit, though, that I'd be really dissapointed if it turns out she's a traitor. If that were true, then I'd really lose my faith in anyone, for if even sweet, kind and lovable Tataru stabs us in the back, then who can we trust, really? She always was the energetic, optimistic and unshakably moral supporting stone of our group. And at first, I didn't find her desire to learn how to protect herself all that strange; it made sense to me, given how Moenbryda had died in Minfilia's very office only a day before, just like how the Garleans stormed in and wiped out the Waking Sands. It made sense to me that seeing all that would push Tataru to want to learn how to defend herself. If that had been it, it would have made for a cute, funny but also warm and touching storyline. Then they threw in that smile she gave us over her shoulder at the end in Costa Del Sol. All my red flags were raised.

I don't know, her tears while talking to Alphinaud seemed genuine, but I do wonder why she'd push us to go to Ishgard. There are other places we could hide for the moment, like with Urianger (and boy did SE pour a bucket of ice cold water over us with him) at the Waking Sands. Why insist on going to Ishgard so strongly? I'm really torn between thinking she's just her genuine, adorable self... or thinking all those red flags in my mind were raised for a reason and something suspicious is going on. Gaah, if anything, SE did a great job making us feel isolated and completely unsure of who to trust (aside from the ever affectionate Haurchefant).

There's a lot to think about, a lot of stuff to digest and a lot of questions I want answered very badly. Heavensward can't come fast enough.

Tataru definitely came across as suspicious in this patch. All the strange looks, the smiles etc. Not to mention we know the books were cooked, which is supposedly something that she is very good. She also mentions that after shiz went down at the Rising Stones she ended up with Urianger at the Waking Sands. The last scene seems to indicate that he is in league with the Ascians, so maybe she is as well? Maybe they are both possessed like Thancred was? Speaking of the Waking Sands, she mentioned that Urianger put some kind of magic ward around it to change it's appearance. Has anybody been down there since then to see if it's changed?

I'm also curious about what happened to Hoary Boulder and Coultenet. Hoary's last dialogue very much suggested that he wasn't part of the betrayal, and is now looking for answers.

My quick thoughts:

Nanamo: Probably dead, but until we see a Funeral, I'm not going to believe it. I kinda saw this coming since...
The entire coup d'etat: I saw this coming back when the discussion with Nanamo about what to do with the Refugees lead into a tangent (that opened the other PvP area)

Disappointed by Kan-e-Senna and Merlwyb just standing there doing nothing. Semi-disappointed in the Scions all pulling a Sailor Moon ending (eg, the most important companions all die.)

On the other hand, I don't think there's much in the way of confirming that the Companions are permanently gone.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

The readings he was getting all around South Shroud had him in a panic as something looks to be draining the aether there. I don't think a quest like that was random filler JUST to discover Wilred... I feel they were hinting at something there.

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I'm pretty sure of its meaning, but it's not as exciting as everyone probably thinks. The short of it--we're making progress toward a new era.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

I'm mostly shure, the dragon attack also was part of the big plan.

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Nothing is coincidence when Ascians are involved. Nothing. And if it causes chaos, the Ascians are likely involved. It's Always Ascians™


And as for the Scions... Let's just say I haven't lost any sleep.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...la_Barrier.jpg
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...tola_field.jpg
If you can stop a bullet, you can stop a brick.

Would Y'sholta really have had time to create a barrier for her and Thancred after the tunnel collapsed? And would she have been able to keep it up till someone found them?

I can't have hard feelings towards Merlwyb and Kan-E because I think one of the reasons they didn't help Ishgard is because they had readied troops for the inevitable civil war in Ul'dah when Nanamo vacated the Throne. There actions and behavior up till then came across as really stressed and the first thing the two of them ask/comment on Ishgard at the party is it's state.

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

Would Y'sholta really have had time to create a barrier for her and Thancred after the tunnel collapsed? And would she have been able to keep it up till someone found them?

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Help might have been closer than you think--perhaps even tipped off that they needed it or would face certain death.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Also...why did we get arrested so...quietly? I'm sure we would have known that we wouldn't be just sitting in a gaol waiting to be rescued, we'd be executed as soon as possible to make sure we couldn't let the truth get out or get rescued and really oppose them. Even the random Crystal Brave in Mor Dhona is terrified of you...why couldn't we have fought until subdued? We just killed an enormous dragon...what is a few random soldiers to me?

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I'm thinking the same way as Eisenhower. We could have easily taken out those Brass Blades and Crystal Braves. By doing that, though, we would have seemed even more guilty. So I believe we allowed them to apprehend us.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

She also mentions that after shiz went down at the Rising Stones she ended up with Urianger at the Waking Sands. The last scene seems to indicate that he is in league with the Ascians, so maybe she is as well? Maybe they are both possessed like Thancred was? Speaking of the Waking Sands, she mentioned that Urianger put some kind of magic ward around it to change it's appearance. Has anybody been down there since then to see if it's changed? .

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That hadn't crossed my mind, though Elidibus referred to Uriange as Archon which suggests he is Not possessed. Tataru on the other hand is just a normal little lalafell. They could possess her with no problems.


As for the waking sands.... After running around the major cities talking to everyone I could talk to.... I forgot to check!

This is what the NPCs in there had to say

For Urianger you have to select the option 'How fares the Realm' since he is also a quest NPC. I retract my former theory of Urianger not being possessed. Well Sort of. In the Cut scene his speech pattern was right but in the following text it has definitely changed. It is almost as if he answered Elidibus call and allowed himself to be possessed. This is my current theory.

Urianger: Within these walls thou shalt find sanctuary, for my glamours have hidden the Waking Sands from all who would do us harm.
Urianger: Never again will our brethren suffer at the hands of our enemies─this I swore to myself after the Garlean raid.
Urianger: ...Yet mayhap it were destined to come to pass. Mayhap this too is the will of Hydaelyn.


Slafswys: The world's gone mad indeed when its saviors're branded criminals. Me dear sister would be turnin' in her grave...

Radolf: It will take more than this to end the Scions! Warrior of Light─promise me you'll stand with us to the bitter end!

Arenvald: No matter how hopeless things seem, I will keep my chin up and press on. 'Tis the least I can do to honor the memory of my fallen comrades.

I've seen people theorize that Raubahn may get a robotic arm from Cid, as well as act as a main character in the Dark Knight quests. SE has said they based DRK on Berserk, where the main character also loses an arm and get's a robotic one.

I am not seeing how Tataru was being "suspicious"? She always tried thing outside of accounting, for example when the Scions needed cash she tried mining. She has to be a master manipulator if that is the case.

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Originally Posted by Magis

I am not seeing how Tataru was being "suspicious"? She always tried thing outside of accounting, for example when the Scions needed cash she tried mining. She has to be a master manipulator if that is the case.

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She's in charge of balancing the books. She is also touted as a very proficient and investigative Accountant. Being in charge of regulating the flow of funds and verifying their sources for the Scions and the Braves, such a huge oversight is highly unlikely. Even if she missed them all being the same parent company, she would have noticed the large amount of funds going to the 1st and 3rd. Infact who would have earmarked those funds for the 1st and 3rd to begin with? Hmm? Why it would be the person in charge of finances of course and that person is Tataru.

Considering how she acts I do believe Tataru is hiding something and knowing more than she let's on.
I don't think she is on the enemies side though, more like she knows things that for some reason she can't tell anybody about.
Like as if she knew the WoL was in Great Danger and tried to learn how to fight to protect Minfilia instead, also how she wants to make Good Luck Charms for everyone as if she knew they would be in Mortal Danger.
It would be weird for her to do things like this if she was a Traitor.
As for the Books, I'm not 100% convinced she would know, she is doing the Scions Books but not necessarily the CB's, considering they have other People who do that (Like Wilred, poor Guy)
If she knew it doesn't mean she is involved but maybe was forced to keep silent, Tataru is one of the older Members of the Scions and can't just "disappear" like Wilred.
Though if she didn't knew the Plot it begs to question why she acted like she did.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Help might have been closer than you think--perhaps even tipped off that they needed it or would face certain death.

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Yeah, this is what I'm seeing for Minfilia. Hydaelyn's message basically being "They need you now or will surely perish. Send the Warrior of Light ahead." or something to that effect. Nothing about most of the Braves or Blades makes me think they were more than average soldiers (also, with names that similar, hindsight is asking me why I'm surprised). As such I don't doubt that the Scions held them off.

As for Urianger, I'm taking the scene at face value. Elidibus somehow got word to Urianger asking for a meeting, and Urianger somehow got to the Ascian area to meet him (those are the two parts I'm least sure about, but the first one doesn't seem remarkable). I seriously doubt Urianger is now on team Shadowless. Specifically, his entrance was timed so that he would not see Lahabrea and meet only Elidibus. Meeting with the enemy is sometimes rather necessary, even if your own side would think you an enemy for doing so.

Or to put it another way. . .The Warrior of Light is on Ishgard's side, right? Yet you've conversed with a dragon. And not just any dragon, but the Father of Dragons. Heck, he's following you around and sometimes chiming in on your plans. This hasn't changed your allegiance, any more than it's changed his.

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Originally Posted by Causality

She's in charge of balancing the books. She is also touted as a very proficient and investigative Accountant. Being in charge of regulating the flow of funds and verifying their sources for the Scions and the Braves, such a huge oversight is highly unlikely. Even if she missed them all being the same parent company, she would have noticed the large amount of funds going to the 1st and 3rd. Infact who would have earmarked those funds for the 1st and 3rd to begin with? Hmm? Why it would be the person in charge of finances of course and that person is Tataru.

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She was the bookkeeper for the scions. There's no hint that she did any bookkeeping for the Braves, which are a separate organization (even if they did have close ties).

...It's mostly that parting smile that made me kind of suspicious. I hope it was just SE trying to be ambiguous, though x.x

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Originally Posted by Magis

I've seen people theorize that Raubahn may get a robotic arm from Cid, as well as act as a main character in the Dark Knight quests. SE has said they based DRK on Berserk, where the main character also loses an arm and get's a robotic one.

I am not seeing how Tataru was being "suspicious"? She always tried thing outside of accounting, for example when the Scions needed cash she tried mining. She has to be a master manipulator if that is the case.

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Also, the way the game engine handles facial expressions, especially on Lalafellin, can look....odd at times. The Hildibrand episodes even exploit this to comedic effect. So with Tataru, who's the token comic relief Scion, its hard to tell if it was intentional deviousness or just a quirk of the game engine.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

As for Urianger, I'm taking the scene at face value. Elidibus somehow got word to Urianger asking for a meeting, and Urianger somehow got to the Ascian area to meet him (those are the two parts I'm least sure about, but the first one doesn't seem remarkable). I seriously doubt Urianger is now on team Shadowless. Specifically, his entrance was timed so that he would not see Lahabrea and meet only Elidibus. Meeting with the enemy is sometimes rather necessary, even if your own side would think you an enemy for doing so..

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And just to add, Elidibus is, you know, the diplomat. Emissary. Etc. We, the warrriors of light, met with him. It will be interesting to see where this line goes though.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Disappointed by Kan-e-Senna and Merlwyb just standing there doing nothing.

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I think most people are just looking at it the wrong way. Merlwyb is quite clearly infuriated by the situation, and would have more than likely gone guns blazing if not for the two likely outcomes:

Assuming Lolorito didn't die in the struggle, he would have the means to potentially bypass any civil war and unify Ul'dah under Monetarist rule by making Limsa seem like it was behind or involved with with the WoL's perceived assassination attempt. This would not only justify war with Limsa, but also provide nigh-unlimited funding to restore a certain something.

Assuming Lolorito died, Ul'dah now has a civil war and worse on its hands, as the Brass Blades/corrupt Crystal Braves are no longer on anyone's payroll, (as far as everyone who matters knows) the Sultana is dead, and the remaining Monetarists would be looking to either claim control themselves or look out for their own lives by any means necessary.

Either of these possibilities significantly weaken the Eorzean Alliance, and that's ignoring the potential ramifications of Kan-e-Senna or Merlwyb herself dieing in the struggle. In this case it's better for the other GC leaders to bide their time and interfere from the shadows than risk all out war through direct intervention.

It's interesting that they are accusing the scions, namely Minfilia, of using forbidden magicks to manipulate the minds of people. While this is clearly false, I wonder if he was talking about the echo?

It was said that echo users were viewed with suspicion/fear for some of the abilities they had. So I can see them using that info to scare people away from the Scions.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Also, the way the game engine handles facial expressions, especially on Lalafellin, can look....odd at times. The Hildibrand episodes even exploit this to comedic effect. So with Tataru, who's the token comic relief Scion, its hard to tell if it was intentional deviousness or just a quirk of the game engine.

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I thought she looked sad, not devious.
Devious looks are more a certain other Lalafells thing which looks utterly creepy ... luckily he is now half the Man he was before :p

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...It's mostly that parting smile that made me kind of suspicious. I hope it was just SE trying to be ambiguous, though x.x

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Naw, that wasn't suspicious behavior, she was just raising her own death flag. I took it as a rather poor-taste parody of what happened with Moenbryda.

The thing that really bothers me is the evacuation scene. We just stand by and let our friends fight while we run away. My guy woulda stood by with the Scions in their last stand, and Lu wouldn't have left Min alone. This entire time I was actually hoping for a battle part where we fight with each of the scions holding off wave after wave of bad guy, but no, we run away like cowards. Like seriously, we fought primals/Garleans/Ultima/Beastymen, and we run away from puny mercs?

Yugiri says that she lost her mask in the struggle in Limsa Lominsa while rescuing Tataru.

Doesn't that imply that the half-dragon person has just been wandering around Coerthas with no mask on? And everyone's completely chill about that? Or is it just supposed to be a case of "Oh, she's a ninja, she probably just vanishes into the shadows whenever anyone is around."

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Originally Posted by Lucke

The thing that really bothers me is the evacuation scene. We just stand by and let our friends fight while we run away. My guy woulda stood by with the Scions in their last stand, and Lu wouldn't have left Min alone.

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That's the problem with a forced story arc. Most of us at some point will disagree with the path our characters are shoved towards in the main story quests, but I understand why it has to be done. I protested at several decisions in the story arc too (Coco never would have done those things), but the alternative isn't attractive. Writing staff would be looking at hundreds of potential cutscenes, conversations, battles, confrontations ... you name it. And trying to craft a cohesive story that matches up with every single person's individual path and STILL makes sense? Take it from me as a writer; it's an absolute nightmare and you avoid that wherever you can.

Want an example of where it happened and self-imploded? Mass Effect 3.

My Thoughts

Some curious things leading up to the final showdown.

Merl and Kan-E reluctance to offer support to Ishgard, while Raubahn kind of has a look like "are we going to help or what?"

Tataru is acting very strange, like she knows something is about to go down.

Lolorito's look of reluctance of the events that just occurred. Is he a bad guy?

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It has been mentioned that Ul'dah is "rotten to the core". What if the events were all staged as an attempt to bring the "rot" out to the surface.
Nanamo could of announced resigning as Queen and gave the power to the people, but how many people had already been bought, how would it prevent the Moneterists from still coming to power?

I feel that Merl, and Kan-E were in on it, but many felt Raubahn would not risk Nanamo's safety in such a plan. I think they were reluctant to offer support to Ishgard knowing what was about to happen.

I dare say that as few as absolutely required were in on it for the sake of staging an unbelievable rouse for those who are sucking the life from Ul'dah to feel safe enough to come forth and show their true intentions. (the rot among the apple)

I'm not going to give much details, but if you guys are a PLD. There is some information that maybe interested for them.

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Originally Posted by Applesnap

Want an example of where it happened and self-imploded? Mass Effect 3.

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True, and while all the available choices ended up in essentially the same result, at least there was a choice. (Although I don't think any choices in XIV would have the galaxy changing results that ME3 had).

Lore-wise, my issues with the PC's actions aside, my biggest disappointment was Yugiri's reveal. There is just a moment of slight surprise and everyone moves on like it's nothing and her appearance is no big deal. I expected at least some sort of mention of who the Au'ra are, why we never see them and why come Heavensward, there are going to be a bunch of them running around Eorzea when previously there were none. Unless they're going with the "They were here the whole time, just disguised with Galmour/Fantasia" route, which I feel would be a huge cop out.

Eh, I imagine it'll be brought up in time, but at the moment there was a bit more going on. I'm guessing that after being betrayed, losing the people who stood by your side, and in general being pretty much at your bleakest moment, it would be very odd to go into a long talk of why Yugiri looks like she does, or things like that. Betting it'll come up in 3.0 at some point, but it's really not the time or the place for it.

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Originally Posted by Sushikins

Lore-wise, my issues with the PC's actions aside, my biggest disappointment was Yugiri's reveal. There is just a moment of slight surprise and everyone moves on like it's nothing and her appearance is no big deal. I expected at least some sort of mention of who the Au'ra are, why we never see them and why come Heavensward, there are going to be a bunch of them running around Eorzea when previously there were none. Unless they're going with the "They were here the whole time, just disguised with Galmour/Fantasia" route, which I feel would be a huge cop out.

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The stance could be made that you always kind of knew Yugiri looked different, and while you were surprised at how she looked for a bit you just got distracted by everything that happened.

I think it would break the flow if they tried to explain who the Au'Ra are considering when she was revealed. I think they'll probably do it soon as the expansion draws near, but not yet.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

I'm not going to give much details, but if you guys are a PLD. There is some information that maybe interested for them.

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Doesn't mean what you think. It's a pretty classic political move, actually, and absolutely doesn't change what we know really happened.

So!
About the Ascians in this patch...

Lahabrea states that the "Ardor" was not his (Nabriales) to make.
Now, IIRC, Lahabrea also referred to Bahamut's rampage as an "Ardor"...
And the closest our characters get to that word was "Rejoining" (mentioned by Nabriales, which Minfilia assumes that what happened to the Isle of Val was his doing).
I wonder...what if these "calamities" are ways for them to disrupt/unbalance the flow of Aether around the zones where they happen, so they can take advantage of them?
They DID say that after each "Ardor", their god (Zodiark) grows stronger.
The mention of some of them being of this world (from 2.50) and "star(s)" was also kind of ominous...as if they weren't from this world (or maybe from *any* world at all), and yet, they need everything they can get their hands on in order to revive their master.
I dunno, this is raising even more questions than answers...

I unfortunately do believe that Nanamo is dead, but... There definitely is one way in specific that she could still be alive.

The drug Somnus.

Somnus is well-known in the back alleys of Ul'dah. When it is taken in over-abundance, the user falls into perpetual sleep, not unlike some kind of Sleeping Beauty. Considering the enemies' reluctance to show the corpse, it could be because she's sleeping. Teledji Adeledji may undoubtedly have wanted her dead, but Lolorito may have planned ahead and tried to switch things with Somnus to play into his own hands better.

All of this said, the scene where Nanamo succumbs to the poisoning was brutal and is why I am not sure I believe she is simply overdosing on Somnus.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Doesn't mean what you think. It's a pretty classic political move, actually, and absolutely doesn't change what we know really happened.

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So?Besides the news of her assassination was publicly. Also that ncp is one part of the order that mant the oath to protect her at all time. Most of them are uncorruptible, including him. No reason why he would lie to a PLD friend ( us ).

I don't think Nanamo is alive, the way the poison acted, it strangled her, I don't think it was a drug or something, she didn't collapse, she was trying to breath but couldn't.

Also I think "Ardor" means "Calamity", maybe the terms umbral era have more meaning than we thought, maybe the balance really turn to umbral( Zodiark ) instead of the usual Astral ( Hydealyn ) and each Calamity makes Zodiark's return even closer and eventually would bring an eternal umbral era.

Just imagine what it's going to be like for those who level culinarian up to 50 AFTER this storyline. Awkward much?

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

So?Besides the news of her assassination was publicly. Also that ncp is one part of the order that mant the oath to protect her at all time. Most of them are uncorruptible, including him. No reason why he would lie to a PLD friend ( us ).

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Lying? What are you talking about? He's telling the truth as far as he knows: he's been informed she's taken ill and denied an audience. I see no reason why Lolorito would want the Sultansworn disbanded, so this is just one more ploy to keep things working in his favor.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Lying? What are you talking about? He's telling the truth as far as he knows: he's been informed she's taken ill and denied an audience. I see no reason why Lolorito would want the Sultansworn disbanded, so this is just one more ploy to keep things working in his favor.

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Forget it, I just wanted to said that what Jenklyns and Pasashan said to us, dont make sense.

I think we are going to find out Pippin is a lost member of House Ul or house of Sil the True King/Return of the King story is too obviously on him and he looks almost like a male Namy

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Originally Posted by lololink

Snip

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Funny you mentioned that because:

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The First Umbral Era brought an end to the age of the gods, and there have been six such eras of calamity since the First Astral Era ushered in the age of man.

Each of the Umbral catastrophes has, in turn, borne the characteristics of one of the six elements. With all the elements now represented, it was believed the current Astral era would last into eternity.

But in the seventh verse of the Divine Chronicles, Mezaya Thousand Eyes prophesized a less fortunate fate. The "senary sun," or Sixth Astral Era, would indeed end, and the "septenary moon," or Seventh Umbral Era, would cast its shadow upon the land.

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--- http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/sp/world/story/

My guess it that the 7th Umbral Era (or 13th cycle if you get rid of the astral/umbral categories) is the era for Zodiark to finally be released.

Nanamo is likely dead. The 1st-person camera view of her eyes fading to a tunnel of white light might cement that.

The Scions in Ul'dah might be dead. Why would the Ascians look defeated in a sense... like they now had to uproot and create Chaos in the North, which is 'ripe'. Correct Jubs maybe, but when someone dies... do they not in some form release their own essense, or some of it, into the world in the form of Aether. The Whole fabric of Life woven together by 'aether' is a pretty strong standing FF tradition. If, say... five very powerful life essenses were put into the Aether stream of Eorzea recently... could explain the Ascians seeming annoyance at the end and need to try more 'ripe' grounds. And why Hyda was finally able to appear and speak to Minf... cause four souls just gave her new energy to do so... "No...." they're dead, blondie.