3rd Retainer by Default, please?

What they should do is allow items that you've previously possessed to be available for glamour. So, we could get rid of the item, but still have access to its appearance for glamour.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

Or most likely, for obvious reasons, you would have 5 retainers total.....................................................................

Complaining before using common logic is lame.

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O.o

/10huh??

I'm not even complaining; I'm offering my support to the notion of extra retainers for people.

What about all the people with 3 retainers? Will they suddenly decide they need another or will they just thing "cool, I can pay less now and still have the same"

I think most would just be happy to stick at 3 and save some cash. That's why I doubt it'll ever happen, SE wouldn't want to lose that income.

If they do add a 5th retainer I suspect it won't be a free one.

I have 4 retainers and it's not enough. For a 4* crafter and someone who is leveling all classes in general... there's just not enough space to hold everything. I hear so much about the ability to craft "storage" in WoW... what's so different about FFXIV? Is the server space that much larger in WoW or???

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Originally Posted by Sadana

O.o

/10huh??

I'm not even complaining; I'm offering my support to the notion of extra retainers for people.

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Oh, you wasn't sarcastic :o, I'm truly sorry then, scratch what I said :) /kiss.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That 'conjuring' of high value items is, as far as I can remember, dependent on using ventures and being smiled upon by the RNG...hardly an automatic thing eh?

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Quick ventures are for gambling addicts and newbies. The real money is in Mining/Botnay ventures, which give guaranteed returns on specific items which can be sold for a premium.

And again, you ignore the basic truth that extra retainers do change gameplay; specifically, they double the rate of acquisition and thus the rate of income a player with only two retainers can hope to achieve. That is a significant gameplay advantage.

While there are no concrete details pertaining to inventory management at this time, the development team is constantly monitoring the amount of inventory space in comparison with the amount of items added in each update. The dev. team continues looking for ways to increase the amount of items players can store through various methods, including increasing the maximum number of retainers a player can hire.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

And again, you ignore the basic truth that extra retainers do change gameplay; specifically, they double the rate of acquisition and thus the rate of income a player with only two retainers can hope to achieve. That is a significant gameplay advantage.

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I think we have different definitions of "significant".

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Originally Posted by Renik

In short words, the EU servers will only make a difference for people from Easter Europe (a minority) and a lot of people who use low quality ISPs for one reason or another. I don't think that money have been invested correctly, or at least not fairly for those who won't enjoy it's benefits.

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My connection from Portugal doesn't cause me problems either, but this logic is pretty faulty. An EU datacenter, at the very least, won't make things worse for me, yet has the potential to make things better, if ever so slightly.

It's true that the majority of players (NA and JP) won't have a benefit from a new EU datacenter. But the same logic applies for the other two datacenters yet we have those. EU is certainly the smaller playerbase of the three, but it's apprently big enough for SE to give us a datacenter.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

I think we have different definitions of "significant".

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The tens of millions of Gil I've obtained from having more than 2 retainers must not be significant then.

A good start would be getting rid of the limitation known as the PS3. Tired of the excuses at this point.

yeah they should give us 3 and 4th retainer free with purchase of expansion totally agree

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

The tens of millions of Gil I've obtained from having more than 2 retainers must not be significant then.

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I'd have to agree. Most players haven't made millions (let alone tens of millions) of gil with the 2 retainers they have. Adding 2 more would do almost nothing for the average player (pertaining to income only). Very very few people constantly keep their retainers selling items or even have a constant flow of items to sell. If you're suggesting your retainer ventures have produced tens of millions of gil then I'd have to say that you're probably just very lucky, are especially good at planning to use materials and then actually using and selling products efficiently, or you wildly overestimate the amount of gil you've made from your retainers. In any case, it's not anywhere near what other players would be doing with them. I imagine a large number of players would just become starved for venture tokens.

Would be kind up to me if they give a 3rd and maybe then a 4th retainer as Veteran Reward.
A player who paid FF always could get even a little payment benefits up to me instead of a minion for 3 month of subscription :/

I'd rather have quality then freebies. The money they make off us goes to development. Frankly, the current path FFXIV is on, an upcoming expansion, new dungeons in the most recent patch (with BEAUTIFUL graphics by the way), other improvements such as the upcoming Golden Saucer, choco racing, games, etc . . . all of this is possible due to budget. So, no, leave the retainers where they are.

In the year or so I have been playing this game I have never had an inventory issue. If you pack-rat enough where you need to be featured on the show "Hoarders", then you have the option to purchase extra space to feed your pack-ratting habit.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

yeah they should give us 3 and 4th retainer free with purchase of expansion totally agree

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Because servers don't cost money to run at all do they?

The paid price for the extra retainers pays for the server cost, and I don't disagree with the cost because you can get by with only two retainers.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

While there are no concrete details pertaining to inventory management at this time, the development team is constantly monitoring the amount of inventory space in comparison with the amount of items added in each update. The dev. team continues looking for ways to increase the amount of items players can store through various methods, including increasing the maximum number of retainers a player can hire.

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Short version: We're doing a thing.

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

In the year or so I have been playing this game I have never had an inventory issue. If you pack-rat enough where you need to be featured on the show "Hoarders", then you have the option to purchase extra space to feed your pack-ratting habit.

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I used to say things like that, and then I went and leveled all crafts and 2/3 of the gathering classes and discovered that there are just way too many items that a player might reasonably have at any time/ all times. Artisan gear has been very helpful, but I'm always low on space and with only 2-3 combat classes. This is also without keeping any stock of low level purchasable materials. Certainly you can get rid of things you don't need right now, but then you just create the headache of mass gathering/ buying when you want to craft something. There are hundreds of useful materials that one might use frequently to say nothing of the inventory mess that fishing can cause.

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

Short version: We're doing a thing.

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I would actually translate that message as: "It's fine, L2P."

Or at least add an 8th tab on to all retainers to make room for all the crap that we should be able to put in our Armoires but can't. Master Rogue Ring, all 4 Hitsuji Kabutos, all 4 Starlight Christmas clothing and the False Mustache, the 2 pieces of the Hildibrand set, the Goblin Mask from the Vet rewards, the Friendship Circlet from the Recruit-A-Friend system, the Slime and Dodo Earrings from TGS 2014, the King Slime Crown from the Anniversary event, the Sable Death Mask from 2.35 with maxing all Beast Tribes, and the 5 pieces of the Moogle Attire from FanFest, and the Fat Chocobo Head from the Vet rewards. So in total 24 pieces. Almost 1 retainer tab, and next we'll have 3-4 pieces of Clouds SOLDR gear, so then 27-28 pieces. Taking up space in 2 tabs.

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

Short version: We're doing a thing.

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Actually, it's more like "we're thinking about doing a thing if we feel you actually need to store more stuff."

What I really want to see is an "Equipment Guide" similar to the Fish Guide where, when you acquire an item from dungeon loot, the item appears in the guide, and then you can cast glamours from the guide (still consuming glamour prisms of course) without needing the actual item. This should consume even less space than expanding the armoire (if that's even possible), since the actual item would not be retrievable in any way. That would be really neat and solve all my space concern issues.

Personally, I had one retainer with nothing on them except 170+ untradeable equipment items for glamour in case I ever wanted one for an outfit. Re-farming a specific dungeon for a specific drop is annoying, and I can't get a list of items I do not have to use the "Try On" feature with if the item is untradeable (tradeable items can be tried-on via searches on the Market Board). I recently had to go through and remove items I'm unlikely to use for glamour, or that were principally reskins of an item that there was a dyeable version of, but if I find out later that I wanted one for a look, I'll be pretty sad.

They really need to add some sort of additional space. Mules would be amazing or simply adding the option to buy (with in-game gil) an additional tab(100 slots) to each of our retainers. This way, people who need the room get it, and the people who don't care, don't need to get it. Best of all, the people complaining about more retainers being added won't have to worry. I'd say though, that it should only be an option if you buy at least 1 retainer first. (That way, they're making some money at least for the extra space.)

We need more space. That is the truth. However, not everyone needs room. If you make it free, think of all the potential wasted space that all the gil sellers are taking up. And all those people that level only 1 class and quit the game. This is why it'd be better to make it optional and through in-game gil. The option to give each retainer an extra tab slot each(100 slots) and 1 tab slot max per retainer (For now) would be a dream come true.

Need an extra one in 3.0 for sure for all that extra gear we will need for leveling all jobs to 60

I'm looking into getting a 4th retainer. I'll need a 5th sooner or later. Having more storage place all together would help.

I cant even fathom how you people can use so much space. Even hording left-over mats from my Daily turn ins I still have many completely open inventory Pages between me and my two Retainers. My basic inventory is literally 1 page. Consisting of my food, medicine, Alex/Paper, and whatever synth mats I've picked up from a dungeon and havent NPC'd yet.

I'll admit I only have 4 Jobs at 50, but I just can't see how adding even 5 more would cause my inventory to require 5 retainers worth of junk. Is it all glamour? I admit my Armor storage is a bit cramped in the Body/Main hand department... but outside of that.. I get that just because I don't have the issue, doesn't mean the issue itself does not exist. I'm just curious WHAT you all have stored. What is causing these inventory issues?

I don't even recall my maximum space because its not something I've given a lot of thought too x.x;

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

Short version: We're doing a thing.

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The important message here is it could have been "XYZ reason we aren't doing a thing." :)

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

I cant even fathom how you people can use so much space.

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Most of it is glamour, or leveling equips for new jobs when they're released. Consider the pre-50 unique dungeon gear (some untradeable, some not): there are 3-4 sets at each tier (tank, physical DPS, healer/caster, and then sometimes DRG gets their own set). There's a tier at level 15 (acolyte, foestriker, plundered [extra versions of plundered for some slots]), level 20 ([not full sets]), level 24 ([not full sets]), level 32 (battlemage, infantry, cavalry), level 38 ([not full sets]), and level 44 (buccaneer, templar, harlequin, and sentinel). There are also dungeon sets at i55, i60, i70, i80, i100, and the higher you get, the more these are specific to a smaller set of classes so you get more of them. Then there's the philo, myth, soldiery, and poetics sets, the LotA, ST, and WoD sets, the First, Second, and Final Coil sets, and then all the highly expensive glamour items.

If you're someone who likes to leave options open for glamour, you have to store something like 3 types * 5 slots * 21 tiers = 315 items. And that's assuming there's only three sets per tier (at the higher tiers, there are six (fending, healing, casting, maiming, striking, aiming), at the highest, there are seven (fending, healing, casting, maiming, striking, ranging, scouting), and for Myth, there are ten). This ignores the crafted sets, even though the high end sets (i70, i90, i110) are not ones where you'd just make an item for glamour and then throw it away because you can get a new one due to their priciness. Oh, and I didn't include the PvP gear where, for the i100 and i110 items, there are 10 sets of each (plus some of the i90 gear has a pretty unique look, iirc). It's also assuming you only care about the five primary glamour slots - it doubles if you add in accessories/belts, and skyrockets if you include weapons.

To completionists who like to have access to one of everything (at least for something like glamour), it's not unreasonable to try to get the whole set for most of these, especially the unique endgame sets like the ST and Second Coil sets. Because of class restrictions on the glamour system, it's often not enough to have one item with a given look - even if two classes have gear that looks the same except for a recolor, due to the class restrictions, you need to keep both.

So, ignoring crafting mats, atma, dyes, materia, demimateria, gardening items, food, choco feed, unused furniture, potions, unarmoireable seasonal/achievement items, fireworks, maps, and wedding invitations, it's definitely possible to run out of your 450 inventory slots (and 300 armory chest slots, which need to include stuff like crafting/gathering gear and your actively used gear for each class) just by keeping items for glamour.

FYI: I have 3 retainers The 1st retainer holds ALL the weapons I've earned with ALL the class/jobs I play. My 2nd retainer hold All mats related to Alky, ie: bones plants, potions et. My 3rd retainer hold my Cloths and rings and such. Having most all the jobs at 50 adds up. I've just started miner, weaver and goldsmith. I'll need extra space to all the mats needed to do the jobs. My biggest problem is I like to have 3 to 4 differant/looks per jobs I play. I have a low level look,mid look and high end look for each job. I almost always play at time level for the Dfs I join. Personal choice....lol
ps: I'll be paying for that extra retainer this weekend.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

-long, informative text-

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I wish we could click the Like button more than once D: I'd Like this ten times if I could.

I have one retainer filled to the brim with level 50 gear only, and that's with just one page worth of weapons (shared between all jobs).
I have one that's almost filled with materia/demimateria only. (Three pages with some random culinarian mats, high-star crafting mats and glamour prisms from when I couldn't make them myself.)
One with pre-50 gear and two pages of crafting mats. Both for glamour and good pink gear for the classes I'm still levelling. Have had to throw some things away already >.< (Read: throw at my GC) And I've sold off a lot of my crafting mats, too, once the gear part of her inventory grew beyond the three pages I'd initially allotted to it.
The fourth retainer holds furniture, fireworks, dyes and unique items like phantasia potions, behemoth horns and atmas. [Edit: Plus some i90 accessories waiting for my desynth skill to get that high...]

And my personal inventory hovers between 80/100 and 98/100, and my armoury is rarely below 22/25 on each type (weapons and rings are always at 25/25, with spare zeniths and each job using two rings; left-side equipment's not far behind).

It's interesting that some people seem to excuse the lack of mule-enabling with the "you're meant to do everything with one character" reasoning, while at the same time seemingly not considering that if you're meant to do all classes with one character, you should have more storage space to help you with that compared to a character in a game where you're locked into one class and can at most do two or three crafting classes (which often don't require separate gear). Not less (per class).

Despite being a completionist who loves to play dress up, I finally did a thorough cleaning of my three retainers recently. After ditching all the crafting materials that were selling for <1000 (after factoring in stack size) and ditching any equipment that I would never wear (mostly helmets, hair was meant to be free!) or which was identical in look to another item that the same classes could wear, I still only had about ~50 spaces free out of the 625 available to me (I don't really count Armory Chest space, even though the new crafter/gatherer sets have freed up space there, mostly because any spare room is filled with SB gear). I also ditched all weapons that weren't the best one for the class, the class relic, or something that looked amazing (Shadow Bow!) and that didn't really help.

I'd really love more space, personally, or some info regarding the idea of an Equipment Guide. I could have sworn a community member had mentioned the idea at some point, but that may just be wishful remembering. If we're going to get something down the line that will let us record the items we've found, that's more incentive to cling to them now rather than re-farming them all later.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but it seems everyone is forgetting about crafting. Especially if you level all crafts to 50, and gathering jobs which includes Fishing. Mats that are needed for crafting take up space, also if you do fishing at all, then you have all the bate to deal with. On top of everything else managing inventory can get to be an issue. Of course taking some time out to look over said inventory and see if you need all the mats should be done periodically but as usual, as soon as you sell off some of it you find you need it.

Allcraft 50 and never had an issue with retainer space. Armory space on the other hand...

I really just wish they'd update the Armoire to act like the Minion Log, but for Glamours.

Take any "important" gear (gear with unique stats like the Spiritbond/Durability stuff, or quest stuff like AF (but put Augmented AF in there ffs)) out of it. Make storing gear in it a one way thing, but have it unlock the gear permanently in a new tab for gear I can Glamour. Done.

I currently have an entire Retainer dedicated to gears for Glamour, if I could just burn all that in the Armoire and use them for Glamours whenever it would solve most of my inventory woes. 99% of the gear I store is not gear I ever intend to actually wear again for the stats, it is almost entirely Glamour fodder, the physical stats are worthless to me. I would not be bothered if the gear itself just gets burned to enable more space if I can keep them for Glamour purposes. Some of the gear would be nice to have again when new Jobs come out, but I'd honestly rather just have no more inventory woes...

Also really wish they'd just make the Armoury Chest a static 300 spaces for any gear and just have the tabs shows specific types of gear. Currently we're limited to 25 spaces for each type of gear. Sod that, I potentially need more than 25 weapon slots and I'm damn sure never going to need 25 ring slots... Belts, Offhand, Neck, Earrings, Wrist, Rings has so much wasted space I would really appreciate being spent elsewhere... You could literally condense those categories together and have them use up maybe 75 spaces, rather than the current 150 they waste... I really can't help but headdesk whenever I see the developers mention that we can't have new slots for Fishing Bait or a better Glamour system because there isn't enough space, when so much space is wasted giving us excess room for accessories... I mean really...

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

While there are no concrete details pertaining to inventory management at this time, the development team is constantly monitoring the amount of inventory space in comparison with the amount of items added in each update.

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Are they monitoring players Armoury Chest space or am I just an anomaly? I currently am using 200/300 Armoury Chest spaces if I total it all up, and I would absolutely love to use some of that remaining 100 on PvP gear or something, but I can't because over 80 of those slots are wasted on giving me more space for accessories than I'll ever possibly need. I know the developers are keen to make this babies first MMO with all the hand holding for new players, but can't you kick the stabilizers off of the whole inventory management thing, considering nearly 1/3 of it ends up being wasted space? I need no more than 75 spaces for all my accessories, why are you giving me over 100?

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Postie

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Excellent explanation, and that I will say with absolute sincerity. However, now that I've got my actual sincerity out of the way.. I will chalk it up to an almost serial killer level of illogical hording. Stawp.

Now, this is separate from my response above to you and more toward the solution asked for in this thread... so for this particular solution. I don't think we should increase inventory space, or in this case open a new retainer, specifically for this type of problem as it is very short sighted solution... as by that logic in a couple years, even if adjusting inventory, they'll be demanding over 9,000 inventory spaces for their Item level 50, 60, 70, 80 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200, 210, 220, 230, 240, 250, 260, 270, 280, 290, etc etc gear... Do you not see the problem with i'm getting at here? A new retainer will not solve this issue for more than a couple patches, and then people will want a 4th, and a 5th, and a 6th, etc etc. Because as you described, their compulsary need to horde anything and everything will not cease, and in the end, they'll just shovel everything they can into their retainer... Most of it being gear that will never see use glamour or otherwise.

Instead of adding a new retainer or increasing inventory which will be but a bandaid on a bullet wound , I think we should look at the biggest offender to this inventory issue, Glamour. The best solution would be to add a "Glamour storage" type system, where once obtained, you can bind it/whatever it to save that Glamour date in glamour storage for use any time in the future without the physical item being needed. Think GW2. It has been suggested many times, and I think that would be a more perminent solution, rather than this ... short sighted solution to the issue, and I really hope SE sees that.

I know development time is probably tight but this is an issue that will plague this game for its entire lifespawn with the current glamour system, a new one needs to be made.

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for the i100 and i110 items

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Aren't they the same set except one is dyable? I thought they were... i know the weapons are just glowy versions.

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crafting mats, atma, dyes, materia, demimateria, gardening items, food, choco feed, unused furniture, potions, unarmoireable seasonal/achievement items, fireworks, maps, and wedding invitations,

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I get most of these, but Maps and Wedding invitations? Those shouldn't grace your inventory for very long at all... Also maybe is just uncommon, but don't people keep their Choco-feed an Gardening stuff in FC chests if available? I know not everyone has a FC house, and that Gardening suff can be used in personal housing...

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Allcraft 50 and never had an issue with retainer space. Armory space on the other hand...

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For me it's the combination of both craft and gear space as well as miscellaneous items. I am not totally concerned however, for now as I can easily spend some time getting rid of unneeded items, however as you said the armory space is also an issue, with 3 new jobs on top of ninja........

I'm curious to know how it's all calculated. If you're using a flat calc to determine the "average" inventory of most players I propose this is not the best way to determine current needs. I have several 4* crafter friends whose inventories are empty. If their inventories are empty or nearly so then my assumption would be that there would be others too. If this is the case then would it be possible to use a different system in order to maximize storage across all players and move storage slots around so as to expand overall storage? The end game player would never see any of this "movement" but could the servers adjust in order to maximize all slots across all players?

I'll say it:

Paid retainers are a P2W aspect. No matter how big or small. When you can have ventures twice as many times by paying, no matter how small the fee or the reward, it's P2W and it needs to go, it doesn't belong in a P2P game.

4 Retainers max, 2 default, 2 paid with GIL, not irl currency. That's how I would see it perfectly set up. Maybe 1m gil for 3rd retainer, 10m gil for the 4th retainer.

I just hate having my inventories always full with stuff and the possibility that people are spamming ventures twice as many times as me just because I don't wanna spend 4 euros more. It's not even about the money, it's about the principle.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

I'll say it:

Paid retainers are a P2W aspect. No matter how big or small. When you can have ventures twice as many times by paying, no matter how small the fee or the reward, it's P2W and it needs to go, it doesn't belong in a P2P game.

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Except you can't have ventures twice as many times by paying. You have to have the venture tokens to pay the retainer, all having the optional retainers does is allow you to burn through your venture tokens twice as fast until you run out. Some people try to say that you can earn ventures from all sorts of things, OK, you can get 6 from your daily beast tribe things, that's not even an hour of time for 4 retainers, since you need 8 venture tokens for 4 quick ventures. If you spend 3 hours playing and want to send 4 retainers out on quick ventures every hour, that's going to cost you 24 venture tokens. You'll spend your playing time earning ventures to pay your retainers with.

There is this fallacy that the additional retainers magically generate extra things or gil, the truth is, at most, they temporarily increase the rate you can do certain things at, until you run out of ventures to pay with, or items to sell. The thing is, you have to have the ventures to pay the retainers with, and you have to already have the things to sell. Once those resources run out you're back to square one whether you have 2, 3 or 4 retainers.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I really just wish they'd update the Armoire to act like the Minion Log, but for Glamours.....

I potentially need more than 25 weapon slots and I'm damn sure never going to need 25 ring slots...

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I think we can all agree the "have to currently possess item for Glamour" thing has to go.

Amusingly though, this game has 20 different classes currently. If you don't have them all at the same level, that's 40 rings you need. I know I've had my ring tab completely full on more than one occasion. Bad example. ; ;


The worst offenders for inventory problems:
Glamours
Crafting mats
Fishing tackle/bait
Anything that doesn't stack

Hm... I know the various fireworks provided during different seasonal events is taking up a chunk of space in my inventories. I kind of wish we had a /fireworks emote instead. (To add... you could buy one fireworks from whatever event is going on at the time and that firework would be added to the random list you could pull from when using /fireworks. I dunno... just a thought. ^^)

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

I'd rather have quality then freebies. The money they make off us goes to development.

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Well, it's supposed to. But inventory has been one of this game's biggest issues since it came out (not to mention the issue that retainers directly pertain to). And so far, they've done nothing about it except to keep making it worse. I think it's about time the money they're making off us goes into actually helping our game work better. If they'd double the size of the Armoury Chest, add all the items to the Armoire that belong there, give us a tackle box, catalyst storage, and glamour storage, then sure, there could be some basis for charging for extra retainers. But as long as those extra retainers are just to make up for all the development they're refusing to do, saying it's to pay for development is a bit problematic.