Should Cleric Stance be disabled during Dungeons and Raids?

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

Healer = "someone who purports to aid recovery from ill health"
Destroy = "put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it."

Those two concepts don't seem to align just right...

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Mobs hurt your party. Healers don't want the party to die.

It's way more fun to kill the mobs than to heal your party. :3

Hey, TC!

No.

the purpose of a healer is to ensure the party wins the event:

• Sometimes its to restore hp or fix a status ailment
• other times its a swift nuke to the mobs face

it would be nice if they fix Cleric's stance so that it could be turned off via clicking the icon or somehow prevent it reapplying right away when spammed (ie require at least one GCD to switch) I have had some times when it would reapply and just be a pain to remove.

If they were to remove the cleric stance, then make their damage spells use mind.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

The title says it all do you guys think that Cleric Stance should be disabled during dungeons and raids similar to frontlines.

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I think not, I think people who are comfortable with switching into Cleric Stance and can still heal the party should do so. ofcourse I still disagree with them disabling Cleric Stance in PvP(yeah I'm fairly certain it was all PvP not just frontlines).

This sort of thing would be a good way to drastically lower the amount of healers available for raids.

I don't think we need a lower population of healers.

So no. I'm ok without the loss of Cleric Stance. The lack of that skill pulled my SCH permanently out of Frontlines as it is.

As a WHM main, I'd say this idea is too stupid to even entertain. Sorry to be that way. But, no. Just....no.

Karate makes me a better Healthcare companion. -Baymax

This is not frontline m8, and as SCH it doesn't hard to put cleric stance on and while tank in emergency I just need lustrate.

Absolutely not.

Cleric Stance is practically essential. When my party is healed, they don't need healing any time soon, I put on Cleric Stance and help out in DPS. Sometimes this is essential as the DPS isn't enough with two people alone. So I will pop on cleric stance and help out in those vital times.

Without Cleric Stance, damage is pathetic for a White Mage and Scholar. They won't be able to assist in damage at all or make any significant impact when everyone's healed and they don't need further healing(over healing can actually put more hate on the healer sometimes) Why would you want to disable that? Cleric Stance can mean between a wipe or a victory.

CS is way too deeply ingrained in the players/dungeons to be eliminated now

What? No. Holy crap no.

You have the option of not dpsing as it is now. Low level roulette without CS.. ughhh. Watching hp drop is so boring (and I'd be more likely to overheal or fall asleep). I went into low level roulette yesterday and got an AV run in progress.. missing a dps, first boss had not been downed. I said I was fine with trying to 3-man and so off we went with Eos as healer and me dpsing (backup heal as needed). We cleared it fine (never got that fourth member) and I had fun.

The one change to Cleric Stance I would actually be okay with is making it affect Fairies. Possibly even Lustrate too, but that might be going too far.

I understand your guys point, but some don't like healing and dpsing perhaps Astrologian will solve this and instead of dpsing they will provide support (buffs) that have to be reapply continually would be a great compromise for those that like healing but not so much the stance dancing and dpsing.

I assume you're a healer...? And don't like doing both...?

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I assume you're a healer...? And don't like doing both...?

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I don't mind doing it on trash content I just don't like doing it on new content that im not familiar with, nor on harder content like T9+. Usually MMOs have a dps healer and regular healers it would have been nice if scholar could heal with their dps similar to discipline priest in wow and white mage was more of the traditional healer but of course every game is different.

Threads like this make me wish this forum had a dislike button.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

The title says it all do you guys think that Cleric Stance should be disabled during dungeons and raids similar to frontlines.

Recently it has become almost mandatory for healers to DPS, and while it certainly does have it niches it shouldn't be a requirement nor feasible in raids and dungeons unless the healer was made with damage dealing healing capabilities (Ex. Discipline Priest Wow / Dancer FFXI)

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Why don't you put some effort in and do it?

Where do you get the premise that it's "almost mandatory" healers have to DPS? If DPS perform at their correct levels, there's not a single fight in the game you cannot clear without healers DPSing.

It should say enough that plenty of fights are healed by only one healer instead of the suggested two: it's because healing isn't very taxing and healers need something to do when no one is dying.

I have to disagree. A healers job is not only to heal. It is to support your raid/party in any way possible. DPSing when applicable is part of the job.

No, No, No and many No, No,No and many No more to come.

lol

/10char

This sums up my thoughts on the opening post.

Cleric Stance should never be disabled during raids. That extra DPS can mean the difference between a clear and a wipe, even with well-geared members who know exactly what they're doing. To establish such a limitation is to slap those players across the face with a splintered paddle, and remove a factor that can be considered as fun by good healers.

Yes, healer DPS can be fun or at least keep you awake during a dungeon run or a raid. A healer who spams nothing but Cure when the tank is at 90% HP is more of a detriment than a healer that assists with DPS and provides healing when necessary.

Uh, no. Everything would be far more boring if I couldn't stance dance.
Ugh, thinking of low level dungeons without CS makes me cringe.

Why take away CS? If you don't want to DPS then don't. I admit when I hop on SCH or WHM and I'm feeling lazy that day I don't DPS. I've never felt pressured into doing it.

Why stop at cleric stance, take away healing spells too so healers can stand there for the MND and PIE party bonus.

Pray, excuse me a moment. I seem to be unable to speak while gasping for air laughing.
Comment follows after this brief interval..... dum de duuuum....

Okay, back! Hell no, CS should not be disabled in duties. /done. :D

Replace all the damaging abilities tanks have with Flash while you're at it.

Can we take away fists of earth and sword oath while we're at it?

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Originally Posted by Sumimi

DPSing as a healer is not a "requirement" for anything.

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^ This.

As a tank, I would never expect my healer to DPS unless he actually wants to. Even during big pulls, it's not his job to DPS. That's reserved for the, uh, "DPS" classes. Would you expect a summoner or a paladin to heal through a dungeon? I wouldn't. I'd expect a summoner to DPS, and a tank to tank.

Unrealistic expectations are the fault of players, not the fault of the abilities available to our classes.

I love healers that DPS and heal. That's make a true good healer. If you can't do it, nobody is forcing you, but it won't hurt to try and play your job to it's optimal potential. DPSing while healing is cool.

If you have a crappy geared tank in one of the expert dungeons or raids, yes, take extra precaution to healing.
But if you have a good tank with you, that can survive just of regen for awhile and knows their buffs, why not DPS?

I'm not trying to be an ass, but cleric stance is there and its good. You aren't forced to do it, but it will optimize your contributions to the party.
Why don't you work on trying to get better at your class than wanting a great skill removed?

I'm not gonna bother reading 10 pages that's repeating itself. I'll just throw this out there:

So by the logic, if the healers aren't healing shouldn't be dealing damage. The same applies to tanks who aren't tanking at that moment then.

Terrible logic and elaboration, OP :P

I play WHM and I kind of wish Cleric Stance didn't exist.

Not because I don't want to dps, I just find it cumbersome. I just wish we didn't have to change stances to do the most healing/damage that we can. Maybe it's because I use a gamepad and already have to swap hotbars to get between healing stuff and dps stuff.

Once you get good at stance dancing it is SOOOOOOOO much fun :). Don't take that away from me...I simply won't heal.

PLEASE-GOD-NO

I just got the tips my group needed to reliably push 4 bennus on T12 this morning and cleric stance is an essential part!! ( thanks to any of you that commented on my thread who happen to catch this comment btw ;D )

Please don't take this away from meeee!!! Q_Q I won't go back to 5 bennus. you can't make me!!!

Hyperbole aside though, there's no reason to disable it. If you're running into this issue in a static, please communicate with them and resolve these issues among yourselves. Sometimes that means moving on, or taking a break from raiding. If you're running into this issue with pugs, i'm afraid that's just the nature of pugs. Players with different play styles sometimes just don't click, but that's hardly exclusive to healers. It's just a risk you take puging. If you don't want to dps, just don't. I run into plenty of healers during dungeon runs who don't dps, and it's fine. They generally don't garner my coms, but we complete the dungeon. And for 8 man content, if you're puging a group where you aren't feeling the chemistry, roll the DF'er dice again.

Cleric stance is an amazing tool. I almost cried my eyes out when they took it from me in frontlines (though i understand why that needed to happen), but if they took it from me in pve I think I really would cry, like, a lot.

Usually in CT/ST/WoD (or atleast in my case), 1 healer is always dps'ing if not both. If your team can dodge well and take no damage, why not? (However, I'm always ready to go back to healing should stuff hit the fan/other healer dies.)

Even on expert dungeons, if a tank big pulls, they will pop cooldowns, at this time, Holy or Shadowflare + Dots. Holy will stun and if you fear them getting low then target the tank and be ready to Bene. Lustrate has NO change while stance dancing, so if they take a big hit while your doing your dps thing, lustrate them. If you are still worried, and you have Aetherflow coming off CD, then put down Soil, DPS, and be ready to lustrate.

Sometimes I don't feel like dps'ing, I know how it is there are those days, everyone has them, esp after a hard day at work or something big and stressful comes out, but don't take away everyone's ability to play how they want.

Just food for thought. Even if Cleric Stance is removed, I predict that healers will still be expected to throw some DPS out where possible anyway. Even if the damage is lesser without Cleric, chances are it will often add up to being better than having none at all.

Nooooooooo
Healing dungeons is really boring. Especially boss fights since bosses usually deal less damage than 2-3 packs of mobs so basically our job would be to just stand therevand throw in a regen now and then

If they were to remove cleric stance then theyd have to increase the bosses main attacks with a couple of 1000 damage so healers actually had something to do in a dungeon

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

True, but if we didn't have cleric stance it wouldn't be as expected of us to DPS because our performance wouldn't be as good. The reason I made this thread is because there are many instances where healers have a lot on there plate with the healing and it feels unfair to have to do the job of the other jobs. Why should healers dps if the dps don't heal, nor tank and the same applies to tanks they don't heal they just dps because its required to do their job.

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Exactly. And in those instances, healers are too busy healing to DPS. So why would clerics stance need to be disabled?

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I play WHM and I kind of wish Cleric Stance didn't exist.

Not because I don't want to dps, I just find it cumbersome. I just wish we didn't have to change stances to do the most healing/damage that we can. Maybe it's because I use a gamepad and already have to swap hotbars to get between healing stuff and dps stuff.

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I don't mind Cleric's Stance, I just wish that stupid cooldown didn't exist on it. If you mess up and turn it on when you didn't intend to, you're now stuck with gimped heals until you can turn it back off.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

I don't mind Cleric's Stance, I just wish that stupid cooldown didn't exist on it. If you mess up and turn it on when you didn't intend to, you're now stuck with gimped heals until you can turn it back off.

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oh yeah that and the lag!
I have a macro that changes hotbar when I change stance. Except sometimes the stance doesn't change but the hotbar does.
Praying that they'll fix all the lag issues with the expansion!