I like them as they are, if you want an option fine, but don't ask them to destroy my Au Ra, to make yours.
Sorry if it sounds offensive, but if they make them more muscular i won't fantasia my char into an Au Ra, and i'm very hyped about it.
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01-31-2015, 11:07 PMRenik
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01-31-2015, 11:33 PMRadacciwell, muscular ppl don't have larger heads ^^ their face-muscles are also stronger, to make the body more symetrical. So if they made bulkier Au'ra, they'd have to put on some extra meat, on their faces too; not necessarily making the heads bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evumeimei
Ya, pretty much only fem roes look a bit fierce, the others are different kinds of cute, already...so they could have made something different...like valkyrie/amazon-sexy-fierce, or succubus...well there's already succubi in the game, so that could scare the shit out of NPCs, if you waltzed into the cities, looking like one; but yah...here's to hoping they make something less kawaii, if they add more races in the future. -
02-01-2015, 02:16 AMTerinIf they're not noticeably different than the existing races, though, then honesty, what's the point of adding them at all? It seems to me that the only thing people are excited about is that they're technically "new", but if they're going to look the same when clad in armor, then they're not adding anything of lasting value to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
Meanwhile, if they add just a bit more muscle -- not a drastic overhaul, just broadening their shoulders and chest muscles -- it could serve as a race that could attract a lot of new players.
I know a number of old Guild-mates who play Orcs in WoW, and feel like the characters in FFXIV seem too "girly", or the Roegadyn, which seem "goofy". When I showed them the artwork of the Au Ra, we were all in agreement; they look badass. I worry the in-game footage would only serve to alienate them once again, not to mention my own tastes also veer towards "tough-looking" races.
You already have three thin humanoid races to choose from. I think it's far more important to cater to others' tastes this time around. -
02-01-2015, 03:13 AMRenikYou can say w/e you want, but some people like them as they are, i like them as they are, and they are done, as i said you can ask for an option i don't mind, but if they are changed now some people will be disappointed and won't even try them, changing them to appeal you and your group of like-minded people, will ruin the race for me and my group of like-minded people, no one is right or wrong, but Au Ra are already done, and my group is the one being pleased by the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
You say they are like any other race, i say they are different enough to appeal to me, why is your opinion more valid than mine?
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but every opinion will find opposition and if you keep asking the dev team to change them instead of adding options, i'll have to show mi dislike for this idea.
Edit:
Gonna leave this here for you and the dev tam, it's a player-made poll, i don't remember the thread where it was posted.
http://strawpoll.me/3247034/r -
02-01-2015, 04:18 AMBigPapaSmurf
SE just needs to come around & give us "body-types" with Heavensward... 'slender', 'average', 'built'.
I've learned we just have to embrace clipping unfortunately, so them having to stretch armours to match new build types would be fine.
Every race we have now, as-is, would be the 'average' build for that race.
Au Ra would then get a "bulkier" option in character creation with larger, more defined musculature.
(they still need a scaly-scale feature too though which gives them dragon-like scales all over their shoulders and up... or at least on the entire face).
That poll comes from a massive vocal MINORITY.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
Not only that, a lot of people by their nature will vote in favor closely after a reveal because "ooo, new, shiny". So it's likely confounded a bit.
Once more people take a step back & examine them more subjectively, a number of those people would likely change their minds.
And even if they "like" the Au Ra as revealed, that doesn't mean they wouldn't like to see improvements still.
I definitely like them but they can easily be better. As it is now, they're too similar to the whole "basic humanoids with one minor twist" thing we have going on.
I honestly bet that if we did the poll again, we would get pretty different results. -
02-01-2015, 04:39 AMRenikI agree with the first part of your post about the sliders as an option not forcing everyone to the changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf
But for the snipped part, i'm sorry, but there's no source to support that argument other than an internet cliche, i have seen this argument a lot of times to invalidate others' opinions in multiple sides, and the poll started to get strength 2-3 weeks or so after the announcement, and i know it because i have been checking it almost every day.
Also i will play it because i like them as they are, and i voted i like them because the front horns are too big for my liking.
And last, something i want to add, Yoshi said in the fan fest that Au Ra would be more customizable than the other races. -
02-01-2015, 05:04 AMSqueeb
Still I'd love to see a poll of what % of the players will switch first day.
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02-01-2015, 05:10 AMQuietGlassesWhat the hell are you talking about? The results of that poll come from the Au Ra discussion thread right around when they got revealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf
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02-01-2015, 08:04 AMNestama
Vocal minority because only 1854 voted. There's at least over 500k people playing this MMO, all in different countries speaking different languages. That is what BigPapaSmurf is talking about.
559 voted they like them and 404 voted they're perfect. That's not even 1% of the community. -
02-01-2015, 08:24 AMFaelandaea
LOL everything shown so far is just concept art. We haven't even seen any actual in-game screenshots of this new class.
As for me, I think the slender concept art looks fine. If I wanted to look fat and overcompensating I'd create a Roegadyn. Remember this new class is based off reptilian traits, not ape. Even dragons are slender compared to what you guys are wanting. Either way, let's maybe wait for an actual screenshot instead of just concept art before freaking the hell out? LOL.
And if they do decide to go all bulky and overcompensating then I hope that's an option and we have a slider for bulk. But still - as has been pointed out MANY times in this thread, they'd have to redo every piece of armor in this game to fit the looks. So right now they have a choice - make em fat like Roegadyn or fit like all the other classes. -
02-01-2015, 08:40 AMRenikAgain, the concept of vocal minority is totally made up and false, you can say it's not the opinion of the full player-base, but it's the opinion of a portion, same happens with other kind of polls, but even if you want to keep using the lie, the vocal minority argument usually applies to those complaining and trying to change something, in that case those against the design of Au Ra should be tagged as vocal minority, but again it is a lie, because every poll and every feedback represents a scaled opinion of a whole society, with more or less precision, but more accurate than wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
This is how polls and feedback gathering work, and no cliche, argument or wiki invent can deny it, next time use your logic to discuss instead of borrowing twisted ideas born in the darkest sides of the internet. -
02-01-2015, 09:10 AMBigPapaSmurfAnd? The forum-goers represent a small portion of the whole of the playerbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietGlasses
Those who voted represent an even *much* smaller portion of the whole of the playerbase.
Then you take into consideration it's *virtually* only the NA player-base who participated in the poll.
This sample is so microscopic & miniscule that it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Vocal minority isn't an illusion, just pay attention to the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
As Nestama point out, the poll results don't even comprise over 1% of the community.
Yes, your points are accurate about the nature of polling and how it works.
Big deal? It doesn't negate the fact that we don't know the opinions of the other 99.xx% of the player-base.
Also, I find it humorous you try to argue down my point about a vocal minority and deem it a lie (or "false")...
When just the words themselves alone, 'vocal minority', are factually TRUE.
Whether you like it or not, under 1% speaking up or voting is, IN FACT, a vocal minority.
You can't argue against the legitimacy of that phrase without being undeniably, flat-out wrong. -
02-01-2015, 09:43 AMRenik
The word and its literal meaning is not actually wrong, bu it becomes wrong and turns into a lie when it's used to invalidate others opinion, which happens very often here, the forums and the player-made polls posted here, are the closest thing we have to the opinion of the community as a whole, and more in a case like this where everything is only opinion on a subject where the community is not totally divided and affected by prejudices.
If i posted against this idea it's because it have been used to invalidate the support towards Au Ra current design in favor of the OP, if you think the support towards it's design is flawed , the support to the OP is also flawed, what leads to the definition of polls and feedback, a micro society representing a bigger one in lack of a better system, it may not be exact, but i can tell you it's not too far from reality. -
02-01-2015, 09:55 AMNestamaA video has actually been shown. Here's some screenshots from it, since I can't seem to find the video any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faelandaea
Comparing these to the concept art... the in-game Au Ra look very lithe/slender. Much like a Hyur+Elezen+Miqo'te hybrid.
Roegadyn are not fat. They're boxes. As for dragons... Bahamut and the final boss in Stone Vigil Hard Mode says hi.Quote:
If I wanted to look fat and overcompensating I'd create a Roegadyn. Even dragons are slender compared to what you guys are wanting.
Isn't that the entire point of making a new race? Can't exactly just use the exact same character model already in the game (Miqo'te was Yugiri's place holder model, for example) and then slap on some extra features and call it a day :IQuote:
they'd have to redo every piece of armor in this game to fit the looks.
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02-01-2015, 10:24 AMRadacciit's more than half of the ppl that voted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
1854 voters is a good sample of what the general gamer would think.
you don't need hundreds of thousand voters, to get a good estimation of what the entire community thinks; or would you need to ask everyone in America, what they think about your product, before deciding to sell it? if you ask 2k ppl, and more than half says yeay...it's a safe bet.
I kinda like them, but i feel it's a bit underwhelming at the same time; it's to much like what we already have. But we haven't seen it in char creation yet, so we'll see how it goes. I'm not really worried or anything though, and i might swap to Au'ra anyway.
At least the blue sub race looks a bit more menacing. But like plenty of other ppl said...more scales pls? If you gonna make a new race that is half dragon, at least they could take it a few steps further than just beefing up elezen, and putting horns and tail on it. same with miqs, really; lets take hyur and put cat ears and tails on it. what's next? Galka? take roe and put a tail on it. or what about hobbits; take lala, and put feet on it. Beyonce, take a highlander and put a ring on it. -
02-01-2015, 01:09 PMFaelandaeaWell I am used to the actual dragons from Japanese and Chinese lore. Those are what I had in mind in my reply. As for the video, I hadn't seen it, so I will do something no one else in the forums could possibly do - apologize and stand corrected :) I still think they look cool, though. I mean look how tall they are, and they aren't THAT skinny. However in the area of their lower torso they do look a bit on the thin side, so maybe adding some bulk to the torso wouldn't hurt. For their height I would indeed like them to look proportionate and fit, but not like some steroid pumping hulk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestama
I think the results of this thread, though, are that people want both sides, so I'd think it logical to maybe make 2 builds so everyone is happy. -
02-02-2015, 07:43 AMTerin
Even if those polls WERE in any way indicative of the entire player-base -- and honestly, we have absolutely no way of knowing that -- keep in mind that the forums are only available to ACTIVE SUBSCRIBERS. That means people who ALREADY LIKE THE EXISTING RACES ENOUGH TO CONTINUE PLAYING.
New Races aren't meant to appeal to existing players; they're meant to attract new ones. Even as a staunch supporter of FFXIV, I've always said my biggest complaint with the game was the massive gap between "Roegadyn", and "the other races".
To me, Roegadyn are BIG, but not particularly "dangerous-looking". Even Highlanders, the second most muscular option available, aren't particularly muscular; just "more than the rest". Sure, you can make their muscles *lean*, but their silhouette is never any more than a tall Midlander.
Now I recognize that not everyone wants a more muscular race. To them, I would simply say "Then pick one of the other three". Now, if you actually *DON'T* like the other Races, please elaborate on why, and how the Au Ra differs from them in a more meaningful way! I'm honestly not trying to shut down any sort of discussion. The point I'm trying to make, though, is that if you like slender-looking characters, there are three races already available; if you prefer a massive race, you have one. If you want something muscular, large, but also athletic, there's really nothing. Making the Au Ra look as Elezen, with slightly bigger arms, I just worry isn't going to attract new players, making it a fairly shallow addition.
I just don't see that giving them broader shoulders and larger chests, as shown in the Artwork, could possibly be conceived as a bad thing. -
02-02-2015, 07:50 AMTonkra
We need effiminate males..
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...male_Au_Ra.jpg
(imagine with scales on, different horns and white/red eyes)
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...E-Sumi-Yan.png
/edit
something like *lol* ... :
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/7...1422835289.jpghttp://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/9...1422835305.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...aGeomancer.png
Highlanders, Roegadyns are already enough "muscular"..
the current male Au Ra's will look like Elezen/Highlander copy cats from their body stature -
02-02-2015, 08:06 AMTerin
ell, I'm personally glad they didn't go that route, but I can at least respect that going *so* effeminate would be different to the existing races. I'm personally hoping for something between the Highlander and Roegadyn -- powerful, but still athletic -- but I definitely think we could use something between the Lalafell and Miqo'te at some point, as well, just for diversity's sake (personally, I would love FF12-style Moogles).
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02-02-2015, 08:11 AMMalevolence
Going to be a tough call as to whether or not I change from my female Miqo'te to a female Au Ra. I do love their look though.....
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02-02-2015, 09:40 AMCalypsxThere is no tall and athletic race that has horns and a tail. I like reptilian features, I like tails, and I like tall men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
Miqo'te are too short, Elezen are not as athletic and fit nor have the exotic look or tails and horns of Au Ra. Elezen's also act too dainty and pompous for my tastes.
Au Ra are perfect for me and do offer something different. A sleek, slim, tall, athletic and totally dreamy dragon man.
Highlander fits the pics you posted earlier in the topic because you did say "Maybe a bit less bulk". You could just play that, your argument can go both ways. Not muscular enough? Welcome to my world, I played a Miqo'te this entire time even though I wanted a tall athletic race with a tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
I'll say this again even though many people have told you this, ask for the OPTION to have different body types but stop asking people to play races they don't like. Especially when many people already enjoy the race from what we've seen and are looking forward to playing it. Stop forcing a change on those who don't want it. -
02-02-2015, 10:26 AMTerin
I suppose we just see different things when we look at the Au Ra. You see one that's more athletic than the Elezen, I see someone who is virtually interchangeable, aside from the horns and tail.
Now I agree, those images you linked, that's too dramatic a shift. I think the character in the concept-art, however, is absolutely perfect; I wonder, how do you feel about the males depicted there?
http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...4-03_22_20.jpg
To me, that guy is just about perfect. He's intimidating and powerful-looking, like a proud warrior should be, but slim enough he would look fine wearing robes or dashing around as a ninja. His proportions are slightly more muscular than the in-game version was shown, but surely he's still "dreamy" enough for your tastes, perhaps? -
02-02-2015, 10:42 AMCalypsx
His head is too small, his shoulders are really wide apart and his neck is kind of strange. It almost looks like he has football shoulder pads. It's not really that attractive at all...
This could be better solved by asking for customization options instead of asking for the entire race to bulk up. A few sliders might be an option as apparently they will have more customization than the other races will. This way you don't end up angering those who've liked what we've seen while also adding some more options to play around with. -
02-02-2015, 11:01 AMmyahele
they look about right: tall, athletic without being bulky. kinda like this below...but with horns (if they're optional)
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...in-d4ohcjh.gif -
02-02-2015, 12:44 PMTerinI agree, being able to choose body-type would be amazing. That said, they've never offered more than one body-type before; even races with the Muscle-slider, it doesn't affect your actual body, just lighting effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypsx
At this point, I suppose we just disagree. The way I figure, both the artwork and in-game models were shown at the same time, so whether they stick with the in-game renders shown, or go with something closer to the artwork, there will be some people disappointed either way. I just think they look *SO* similar to the Elezen in their in-game showing, I think they'd get a lot more mileage out of something more akin to the artwork. -
02-02-2015, 12:49 PMCalypsx
Fair enough. We can agree to disagree.
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02-02-2015, 03:36 PMBluevann
Just posting this because, not all artworks should be relfected in-game...
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...58738b0885.jpg -
02-02-2015, 03:41 PMFaelandaea
In response to the posts actually asking for more feminine looks on males . . . no. Roll a female character if you want to look female.
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02-02-2015, 04:30 PMBluevannI want a pretty face and small shoulders, not boobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faelandaea
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02-02-2015, 06:05 PMNestamaAh, but that's not concept art (also, who wouldn't want to be a Ditto?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluevann
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02-02-2015, 07:29 PMCGMidlanderBoob slider all the way down (Or roll a Lala)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluevann
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02-02-2015, 08:20 PMBluevannIf you've read my earlier posts in this thread you'll find that I said that I don't like chibi-esque characters, so Lalafell are not an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMidlander
And flat boobs are stil boobs. Certain gears would force me to wear bras where I wouldn't want them (thinking of swimsuits, or even just the bare chest slot).
Flat women =/= feminine men. I don't think I'm asking for something awful here, and an androgynous male race is something the game is certainly lacking. -
02-02-2015, 08:49 PMTerin
Ironic you say that, because to me, there aren't really any *masculine* males, except for Roegadyn (who are just BIG, but not super well defined). Still, I totally support variety, I just think I they claim to be doing a powerful-looking race, go all out with it, rather than play it too conservatively and wind up with something that doesn't stand out. Then for the NEXT race, go the other way, with more femenine males.
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02-02-2015, 09:12 PMRenik
Or may be leave Au Ra as they are, and for the next go to super powerful muscular looking one, and the next after the next for the effeminate one, but, oh god we are forgetting about those asking for a more bestial race, they asked for it first.
They have released a race, not everyone is pleased with it, but a lot of people is, there's a lot of people saying they are changing to Au Ra on day 1, ask for another race or may be options, and wait for it, the same way a lot of people is actually waiting for the game to meet all their expectations, and of course your opinion is not better than others' and you can't know what kind of race would attract new customers.
I'm sorry but this is a new race, it's different form the others, and a lot of people seems to like them, new or old customers it doesn't matter. -
02-02-2015, 11:43 PMClover_BlakeSeconding this. I personally wouldn't like the males if they got bulkier, so I'm hoping they won't be changed. They certainly don't need to be "fixed", as many people find them perfect as they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
When complaining about a race, one should think about the people who like it and not assume that everyone is going to agree with your desired changes. -
02-03-2015, 01:34 AMVerlynThat's the point of having a thread about it. We can have a back and forth and collect feedback from both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clover_Blake
If anything, this 'complaint' thread is allowing you the chance to state your opinion that you'd rather it doesn't change. And it would let the devs/community managers see that.
I'd think that would make it valuable for that reason alone. -
02-03-2015, 01:58 AMEdellis
The sad truth is, FFXIV pretty much defaults the builds of the characters in Eorzea, so you can create a character, but only in the parameters of what SE will allow. There is no such thing as a "skinny" or "slim" female-looking male in Eorzea. That kind of body type sounds decidedly weak, something I doubt any adventurer from any city-state would have, and especially not a warrior of light. But more importantly, most certainly not by choice.
I think the closest thing you'll get to an effeminate male is a prettyboy Hyur. Miqo'te males are a close second, but I think they animate alot more "alpha" than Hyur do. As for Androgynous races...I mean, it's something most men in real life have to try pretty hard to pull off. Males and females really don't look all that similar when you get down to it.
That said, this game already has two androgynous races; Lalafell and Roe, while Miqote and Hyur are basically modeled after regular humans. Au Ra are pretty much breaking a trend at this point, as the two genders are completely unmistakable no matter what you do. -
02-03-2015, 03:02 AMTerin
Of COURSE customers matter. The Au Ra shown at Fanfest -- particularly the one shown clad in full armor -- doesn't look any different than an Elezen. If your "New Race" doesn't actually *look* like a new race, then you've failed to accomplish anything. The goal is to keep people playing, and attract new players. Adding a race as similar to the Au Ra doesn't provide any more or less incentive for a current player to keep playing, and it doesn't do anything to attract new players, either (because again, the Elezen would appeal to them just as well). It is, for all intents and purposes, a wasted opportunity.
Like I said, it wouldn't have been my personal cup of tea, but a super-effeminate race would have made more sense than the Au Ra we were shown, because that would at least be different. I'm not trying to act like my preferences are any more important than anyone else's -- I'm really not -- but at the same time, there's no benefit to adding a "new" race that looks like an old one.
I know a lot of people claim to really like them, but in all honesty, I suspect that's purely the new-car-smell talking. Once they've been out a while, I doubt any but the most perceptive players will even be able to tell an Au Ra character from an Elezen, thus their existence will have contributed nothing of value to the game. And to me, that would be a massive shame, as a new race could be precisely what pushes FFXIV into the mainstream, thus giving the devs more resources to build content. -
02-03-2015, 04:03 AMRenikAs i always say about your posts, it's only your opinion, i see it as a new race, stronger than elezens, they have horns, tail and partial scales, they are taller than highlanders and more stylized than roes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
As customer i'm feeling really attracted by the new race as it was shown in the videos and pictures, because there's no one of the current races that seems even near to be perfect for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
You say elezen could attract the same customers interested in Au Ra, this is wrong, in every thread about the Au Ra you'll see a lot of people interested in a race change, while in the forums the general opinion about elezens is how their necks are too long for it's weak body, not to mention how the faces and the characteristics of the bodies of each race doesn't resemble in the slightest.
You're actually acting as if your preferences were more important, because you're assuming everyone else sees the Au Ra as elezens, and you're trying to convince the dev team to enforce us a race that is not what were already shown and ADVERTISED. Again you may see it as the other races, this is only your opinion, because it has been stated several times how some people prefer them over any other of the currently available races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
You are just speculating based on your own opinion, some people will go back to their old race, but that would happen with any other race, not only Au Ra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
How can your dreamed race push the game to the mainstream? this is a no sense, if something can complete the range of races to choose form, that would be an almost full beastly race, which based on the poll held back in 1.0 could be the next one.
And now to be honest, the changes you want to apply to Au Ra are minimal, but big enough to set apart their current followers, these changes would make nothing more than make the race appeal to you and those who share your opinion, but this would disappoint another group of people waiting to be an Au Ra, even if the number were equal, i don't think they are, the correct and moral option would be keeping the already advertised product.
As i said before, i think the front horns are too big for my liking, making the face hard to be seen by other players, and i don't like how as far a we know the tails on males are too short compared to females, but you won't see me making a thread to change it and enforce every other player this change.
That said, knowing how the dev team works, and how gear is designed in this game, i'm sure the race won't be changed, without delaying A LOT its release at least, but if they were to add body sliders, that could be done even after the release and even applied to other races. -
02-03-2015, 04:55 AMTerin
I'm only proposing then lean more towards the artwork, than the models shown. I don't think that's "betraying" players or anything, especially since they're always careful to said "content may not be finalized" when showing stuff that isn't out yet. I don't think it would mean all too much work to make these subtle changes (though certainly more than just "flipping a switch"). Now it's true, I'm absolutely more biased towards more muscular races, but having a race look more unique benefits the game as a whole.
Now, let's be real here; can you *honestly* tell me that the males shown here look *NOTICEABLY* distinct from one another, barring their horns?
http://i.imgur.com/r6NSyXE.png
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...FXIV_Au_Ra.png