Do tanks always rush?

Here's a quick question...are you assuming they're getting bent out of shape or rushing because it's what they want to do? Because usually I'm calm as a cow and only "rush" because I feel pressured by the group (like they'll pull if I don't pull fast enough for them).

Part of me feels like this is one of those situations where both sides are assuming something that isn't true.

Typically unless it is a new dungeon I prefer to get it over with ASAP so I can get whatever I came there for. There are certain things that'll determine if I rush though.

1. Is there at least 1 BLM in the party? This one is not mandatory as long as everyone well geared but if there is at least 1 BLM then I'd like to really take advantage of it.
2. Is everyone well geared for that dungeon?
3. Is everyone okay with big pulls?

No one should be doing big pulls with 2 MNKs and a fresh lvl 50 healer or vice versa. If they do then it's their own fault if they wipe.

I would slow down if there were a reason to. Every dungeon feels like MS Hallway Simulator 2014 so I don't want to be there any longer than I need to.

This was never a big problem for me until recently. DF has been exceedingly toxic since the last relic step was released. But, if the tank wants to do huge pulls with no warning at all, I usually just let them die. And I typically don't respond to players at all in chat when they get toxic. I just ignore them. If the tank asks the group if they're OK with speed-running, then I have no problem with it. Communication is key.

This is why I queue as a healer with my tank friend. It's our pace for the dungeon and personal df speed runs can get lost. About 20 minutes for a dungeon isn't a bad pace and lets you enjoy it some. Gotta listen to that Snowcloak bgm! Now we are both fairly geared in the i115 range so we add a good bit of dps to the fight(war/sch). Even so we are both more than happy to let a dps who runs off to pull extra mobs, try to tank, and ultimately face plant into a dirt nap. I've done in more than a few dps this way as we just laugh. Saying all that if a party asks nicely and not in some broken internet speak we are more than happy to pull 2 or 3 packs more for that aoe fun time.

If you want smaller pulls just ask when you zone in. Tank doesn't pop CD or dps is low? "Can you do smaller pulls please?" I don't know any tank who purposely zones in just to cause a wipe. They want to complete the dungeon and understand wipes slow them down. Just communicate with your party.

"What we have here, Is a failure to COMUNICATE!!!!"

For me, as a WAR, it depends on the party I've got, and what dungeon I'm in. If my Healer is well-geared, and my DPS includes nice AOE damage, I can pull big. The lower, older level 50 dungeons, I almost always pull a good size crowd, unless, of course, my DPS consists of extremely limited AOEs. In some of the newer dungeons, I'll mix it up, based on my party composition. Given that each duty is going to be different, I find myself making changes to my overall tactics every dungeon. I know without my healer, I'm little more than a meatshield that gets tenderized pretty quickly. Without my DPS, it will take forever to kill things >_>

New players, I always explain things to watch out for on bosses, and will mark targets based on their threat to, well, me. Such as critters than have TP-stealing AOEs.

Maybe my cake analogy sucked. After thinking things over, maybe this one works better. I disagree with Ellatrix in that speedrunning is the only option. I think both options are viable and it all comes down to preference.

It's like unloading groceries from your car to bring them into the house. Assuming you have 16 bags each weighing the same, you can either carry 8 in each hand and have a single, but more intense trip, or you can lessen the amount of bags per trip. It may take extra time, but each trip will be less strain. It all comes down to what you're capable of.

85% of the time they do rush (atleast the ones where I am healing in), I dont know if this is, because they find the dungeon boring and what to get it done asap or this is simply their playstyle. Personaly as a healer, I dont mind if a tank starts pulling alot of mobs, aslong as he/she doesnt start raging towards the group (when) if he/she dies.:p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laerune

Personaly as a healer, I dont mind if a tank starts pulling alot of mobs, aslong as he/she doesnt start raging towards the healer (when) if he/she dies.:p

---

Fixt that for ya.

The tanks always blame the healer, before looking at the possibilities of them biting off more than they chew.

As a Tank who mainly does DF alone (thats how a Carreer-Tank, or someone who wants to be one, learns how to react to every possible Scenario) i encountered alot of different Groups. I always pull only one Group at the beginning to see what everyone is capable off. Though im one of those Tanks who waits for the Healer to buff the Group at the start, after that, its Rushing-Time.

Lately, its mostly Ninja and Dragoon or Monk in the DF. If the Healer is good enough, then there is no Reason not to do larger pulls if they know what they are doing.

Another thing, sometimes, its DPS who nearly wipe the Group...Just happened today: After a pretty big Pull was finished off, i´ll take the next Single Mob to regain MP and my Def-CD´s...then one DPS rushed ahead and pulls 2 big Groups...which is not a good Idea if the Tank has almost no MP and no Def-CD´s ready.
Didn´t wipe though, but its pretty annoying to try to regain MP - Flash - Sidestepping AE´s and making sure noone is getting too much Aggro (in a Scenario like that, its mostly the Healer who has the most Aggro)


So for those overeager DPS: If you get a Tank who does large Pulls all the Time and suddenly tanks only a single Mob without pulling more, then there is a Reason for that. Most of the Time its to regain MP and have some Def-CD´s ready for the next big Pull.


Back to the Topic at Hand, I´ll go as fast as i can depending on the Group composition and if there are no Complaints , i´ll continue with that Pace.

Well I am glad to see it is not just me who feels this way. My main is blm but I am doing zodiac dungeons as whm for queue. Now I am iLev111 and moderately adept - but the tanks have been driving me crazy. They all want to pull as much as is humanly possible regardless of anything. Some of them do well at it and we have no problems - but others go down so fast I can't cure as fast as they go down, nvm regen or heaven forbid an esuna. Its like they don't realize there is a global cooldown.

So because I've only been doing lev 50 dungeons for a few months, I don't know if I just suck terribly or if I am actually supposed to be able to keep warrior in Snowcloak with 7k HP up, when he pulls ALL the things at the beginning, including those wolf things that hit like trucks. Add running off without buffs that we have to wait to cast because of that one person in cutscene, and interrupting Stoneskin II by engaging before its done casting is just really making it a pita.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rojah

I don't know if I just suck terribly or if I am actually supposed to be able to keep warrior in Snowcloak with 7k HP up, when he pulls ALL the things at the beginning, including those wolf things that hit like trucks.

---

7K HP in Snowcloak? That WAR is severely under-geared for speed running (I think that's... i80-85 HP). They're either stupid for trying to speed run in the first place or they're easily 'persuaded' by peer pressure (assuming the DPS requested/demanded speed runs).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shenon

Another thing, sometimes, its DPS who nearly wipe the Group...Just happened today: After a pretty big Pull was finished off, i´ll take the next Single Mob to regain MP and my Def-CD´s...then one DPS rushed ahead and pulls 2 big Groups...which is not a good Idea if the Tank has almost no MP and no Def-CD´s ready.
Didn´t wipe though, but its pretty annoying to try to regain MP - Flash - Sidestepping AE´s and making sure noone is getting too much Aggro (in a Scenario like that, its mostly the Healer who has the most Aggro)


So for those overeager DPS: If you get a Tank who does large Pulls all the Time and suddenly tanks only a single Mob without pulling more, then there is a Reason for that. Most of the Time its to regain MP and have some Def-CD´s ready for the next big Pull.

---

In regards to this quoted piece: Let the DPS die. I can't state it enough. The Tanks job is to manage aggro, not for the DPS to tell the tank how much he can manage or control. When I tank, if a DPS pulls mobs to me I will NOT grab their aggro. I will (repeat) pull up a lawnchair and Watch. Them. Die.

Regarding the rest of your post: That's the definition of a tank that actually tanks and observes what the team can handle. Not someone who runs into the fires of hell and expect the healer to keep you alive with a glass of water...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

7K HP in Snowcloak? That WAR is severely under-geared for speed running (I think that's... i80-85 HP). They're either stupid for trying to speed run in the first place or they're easily 'persuaded' by peer pressure (assuming the DPS requested/demanded speed runs).

---

That's a Warrior who pretty much forgot to turn on Defiance lol. Happens alot, especially when crafting before queue pops and you swap to class and forget to turn on Shield Oath or Defiance.

Oh lord and I thought i was unlucky to deal with crazy tank pulling whole snowcloak zone, met one tank who did that and 1 dps always afk or brb at start always always happen .

Why tanks rush like superman with STR equip why??? I ended up letting one die and left didn't wanna bother to explain anymore since players u meet at df are ridiculous .:rolleyes:

So because I've only been doing lev 50 dungeons for a few months, I don't know if I just suck terribly or if I am actually supposed to be able to keep warrior in Snowcloak with 7k HP up, when he pulls ALL the things at the beginning, including those wolf things that hit like trucks. Add running off without buffs that we have to wait to cast because of that one person in cutscene, and interrupting Stoneskin II by engaging before its done casting is just really making it a pita.[/QUOTE]

I had the sme problem with Snowcloak, but my tnak a PLD had 5800 HP, I had more on my Scholar. Died twice with SS,Aldo,SS,eye for an eye and protect with EoS locked on him. wouldnt stop pull 4 and 5 pack of mods.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYoung187

Tanks get raged on for going too fast, then get raged on for going too slow. It's a no win situation for them. It is usually the ones whining about going too slow that are the loudest. Most tanks just get it ingrained into their mind that they have to go fast.

---

Did you read what you posted? Of coarse they will get raged on for going too slow or too fast. The key word is too. They should be going the correct speed for the party make-up never too slow or two fast. Start out testing the the group can do and pick up pace as need be.

Personally I would rather be slow than too fast and have to start over.

Also most pulls that are too large are blamed on the whm and they should be blamed on the dps.. A whm can only heal so fast and only a few abilities to heal a little more or faster. Once the tank abilities wear off the mobs need to be reduced to a manageable level.. If dps aint enough and there are to many mobs left you all die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nashred

Also most pulls that are too large are blamed on the whm and they should be blamed on the dps.. A whm can only heal so fast and only a few abilities to heal a little more or faster. Once the tank abilities wear off the mobs need to be reduced to a manageable level.. If dps aint enough and there are to many mobs left you all die.

---

Actually that is the tanks fault for biting off more than he can chew. The tank should only pull what he and the healer can handle comfortably. If DPS is really high, then pull more, but you really cant blame DPS, unless they are afking or pulling more mobs to the tank.

But to dance around like you are walking on burning coal, without popping cooldowns, just surviving off what the healer can do for you, that is unacceptable and the fault of the tank for not taking proper measures. Will there be some oopsies like "I forgot to turn on Shield Oath or Defiance" or "Sorry I thought I was healing the tank, but I was actually healing myself, checked to see if I had CS on, but I derped and just did not target the tank?" Of course! I am just as guilty as I am a victim in that example, but that's a forgivable laughable moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zedd702

Actually that is the tanks fault for biting off more than he can chew. The tank should only pull what he and the healer can handle comfortably. If DPS is really high, then pull more, but you really cant blame DPS, unless they are afking or pulling more mobs to the tank.

---

No I agree the tank sets the pace and should look at the dps. I was just really pointing out that not enough dps is what make large pulls fail not the whm. I am not actually blaming the dps jobs either just the amount of dps that cause a large pull too fail. Allot dont check dps some are attacking mobs before I even get protect up. I have also run with some of the best tanks, so we cant blame all.

Oh ok then I guess I misunderstood your prior post a tad.

I've noticed this trend as well. Tanks will not even wait for protect and are off pulling half the dungeon, then screaming at us healers. Or throwing a fit because they pause for a moment (making you think they have stopped for the pull so you throw up regen) only to take off and pull another three groups and get mad at you for having mobs eat your face.
This isn't hero simulator 2014, it is an mmo where it is a group activity. Take the moment, just one, to clarify what your group is comfortable with instead of shoving it down their throats. If you DD's can handle the pulls or your healer isn't comfortable without knowing what the rest of the group is capable of, that's okay, work as a TEAM, TOGETHER instead of insisting that there is only one way to run a dungeon and that's a speed run. Sure you want to knock that dungeon out fast, but what makes more sense, pulling more than your team can handle or is comfortable with and wiping time and time again because you have a chip on your shoulder, or taking a moment, running it a bit slower at the request or understanding of others and clearing it efficiently?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7583/...84bde85c_o.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7483/...556fb995_o.jpg

Forever relevant.

As I recall, they were the bad example we were supposed to learn from, lol.

Poor Edda though. . . Wonder if we'll run into her in the World of Darkness?

. . . Ooh. . .

Definitely won't be seeing her in World of Darkness... unless she takes the place of Echidna (Echidna).

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...no_Echidna.jpg

Edda was her own little storyline, so if she were to return, it'd be in a new quest. The Crystal Tower series is mainly a nostalgia boner for Final Fantasy III.


And no, we didn't learn anything from Edda, otherwise I wouldn't have posted those snapshots earlier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And no, we didn't learn anything from Edda, otherwise I wouldn't have posted those snapshots earlier.

---

Those are the four squabaling NPCs out side the North Tide Gates right? I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that that was Edda and Avery's party. We see them first when we beat them to the punch clearing Satasha and the next time we see them is in Gridania after Avery is.... aparently decapated by a void sent, and their party breaks up. The Third and final time was the conclution (well kinda, in a stephen king sort of way) when she's resurected the Elzen woman who died at the waking sands and is atempting to revive avery (By sacrificing the Thamaturge's soul and our Body no less). Last we see of her she catches her robe on fire and falls (Presumably) to her death at the bottom of the tamtara cavern.

I know that's not Edda's party. It's Edda 2.0; new faces, same concept.

Nope, its because they have supposedly much better things to grind, rather than spend a few seconds letting a healer buff the whole party and spend about 30+ mins in a dungeon with 3 more random people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I know that's not Edda's party. It's Edda 2.0; new faces, same concept.

---

Was double checking their location. That IS The party out side North Tide gate right? or is it in a diffrent location?

The rest was just filler so I wouldn't waste a post on a 1 liner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Was double checking their location. That IS The party out side North Tide gate right? or is it in a diffrent location?

The rest was just filler so I wouldn't waste a post on a 1 liner.

---

It's right next to Satasha and they appear after you complete the Hard mode version of the dungeon for the first time.

tips, friends always ask me how to be a good healer.
I just told them to level a PLD to 50 and get their Zodiac.
and some of them want to be better.
I told them to level a WAR to 50 and get their Zodiac.