Relics coming to an end?

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

Same. It would seal the deal on my unsubscription. It was also the nail in XI's coffin for me when they made AH trash superior to relic/mythic/emp. Sure they semi-fixed it ... eventually... sorta... but FF MMOs are waaaay too grindy to pull that kinda crap.

Gear trivialization is fine if it's easy-come-easy-go... but when you grind hundreds of hours, if not more, on what's supposed to be the lore's ultimate weapon it is a massive slap to the face for that time to be flushed.

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IMO, you chose to grind it. What will be the difference if in fact they to include it in 3.0 but only enough to say... I see you got your <so and so> weapon. Please wait at the end of that long line over there for your next chance at your "Shiny New Toy"!

What would the difference really be?

Quitting over you *choosing* to grind something out as one of he paths to an end game weapon.... yeah lol. Have fun in your next game?

But seriously... if you are going to rage quit over something so measly... that wasn't even required for you to do... why are you even still playing in the first place? Better yet, why even bother playing MMO's because most of them do the completely same thing. New stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes irrelevant and the pattern repeats in an endless cycle. Do you expect things from Year 1 XIV to really be relevant say... 2 years... 3 years... 5 years down the line? If you can't even imagine/entertain/accept the *possibility* that things can start over from scratch when FF stops being ARR and changes into the next story Heavensward... Just not sure what to say to you to be honest other than to have fun in whatever your next "MMO Fad" may be. I don't remotely claim to know anything, but I am at least open to new possibilities and anything at this point is pure speculation.

Here you have the end of Tanaka's "vision" / "roadmap" for ARR and you have the start of Yoshi's "vision" / "roadmap" Heavensward.

So when the relic is ilvl 3000 u pro current relic people think new players are gonna grind atma,animus,novus,nexus, w/e other bs they can think of? It would be absurd.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

So when the relic is ilvl 3000 u pro current relic people think new players are gonna grind atma,animus,novus,nexus, w/e other bs they can think of? It would be absurd.

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This is exactly the point of why they will probably have everyone start on a fresh relic come expansion time.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

So when the relic is ilvl 3000 u pro current relic people think new players are gonna grind atma,animus,novus,nexus, w/e other bs they can think of? It would be absurd.

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By that logic new players shouldn't have to level to 50, or do anything that wouldn't put themat an instant level playing field with day-one veterans or... y'know.. anyone who actually enjoyed the game enough to invest the kind of time a relic takes. Nah, you're right and this RPG should play more like a FPS. It's totally unfair that anyone should ever have something better than someone else no matter how much harder or longer they worked on it. In similar keeping, all raid drops should be immediately handed out to all players regardless of raid progress, or if they've even cleared the raids. Every new character should start as a max ilvl in all DoW/DoM with all minions amd mounts and DoH/DoL can just be removed entirely.

Get real. It's absurd to imagine people getting rewarded more for doing less work than others ie. every aspect of SE's current "nerf early, nerf often, nerf hard" game model.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

IMO, you chose to grind it. What will be the difference if in fact they to include it in 3.0 but only enough to say... I see you got your <so and so> weapon. Please wait at the end of that long line over there for your next chance at your "Shiny New Toy"!

What would the difference really be?

Quitting over you *choosing* to grind something out as one of he paths to an end game weapon.... yeah lol. Have fun in your next game?

But seriously... if you are going to rage quit over something so measly... that wasn't even required for you to do... why are you even still playing in the first place? Better yet, why even bother playing MMO's because most of them do the completely same thing. New stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes irrelevant and the pattern repeats in an endless cycle. Do you expect things from Year 1 XIV to really be relevant say... 2 years... 3 years... 5 years down the line? If you can't even imagine/entertain/accept the *possibility* that things can start over from scratch when FF stops being ARR and changes into the next story Heavensward... Just not sure what to say to you to be honest other than to have fun in whatever your next "MMO Fad" may be. I don't remotely claim to know anything, but I am at least open to new possibilities and anything at this point is pure speculation.

Here you have the end of Tanaka's "vision" / "roadmap" for ARR and you have the start of Yoshi's "vision" / "roadmap" Heavensward.

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Except that MMOs that take this approach to the casual, disposal nature of their items either make the grind fun or prevent the items from being a whorish chore to get. Ideally they do both. SE does neither.

If you didn't choose to do relics, why critique obvious criticism of a blatantly flawed system? Alternatively, if you did take one or more to relics to Novus and think it's cool beans that it was a meaningless investment, why is your taste in game design so terrible? This is not "ooo sweet, I got the super shiney megapwnultra-wacker" -> gets nerfed -> "Oh well... that wasn't at all annoying or frustrating to get and it didn't feel in any way like work or a lazy attempt to string subscribers along." This is "After hundreds of hours... millions and millions of gil... and cocksmashing grind... I've got this Novus.... yay..." -> potentially gets nerfed to oblivion in less time than it takes the average player to complete the weapon in the first place -> "ffffffffffffff"

If they don't want people to be upset if/when they make insane grind rewards trash, don't make the effort they take completely disproportionate.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

Except that MMOs that take this approach to the casual, disposal nature of their items either make the grind fun or prevent the items from being a whorish chore to get. Ideally they do both. SE does neither.

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Since when is grinding anything fun ;P (to be quite honest, the glow from them gives me migraines. I prefer the more subtly glow end game weapons like with UAT and i95 weapons)

I "ground" up to rank 40 to realize PvP gear was useless in frontlines. Did that make me rage quit? No. Was it upsetting? Sure, but I got over it quickly. Been doing it slow this time from 40-45. At least I got some glamours out of the equipment I purchased lol

Such is the life of online games. If I got mad over every little thing wrong with the way MMO typically operate, I would not be playing them and any time I did get mad enough I did quit them. For me, life's too short to worry about intangible online content that constantly evolves and changes. I will roll with the changes as they come good or bad. Lol I stuck with LOTRO up to Riders of Rohan if that's saying anything lol

The current relic grind is to get yourself a currently excellent weapon for current content.

That's what it's for. It's not for future content. It's for now. It build on existing stuff, but there's no reason for it to build forever. You're not doing it for forever, you're doing it for now. Once it's over, you'll still have a trophy for your efforts. No one will take your relic away from you, nor the accomplishments you made while using it.

Not forcing others to do what you did does not retroactively make your time wasted. It just means they can catch up and join in with what you're enjoying.

You are enjoying yourself, right?

When did we stop playing and when it has become a virtual work?
Isnt the main focus in a game to have fun? How can mindless grind be fun?
Brickwalls to content and lockouts, sometimes way to hard to enjoy... its rather turning into frustration than fun!

If they continue the relics in heavensward I would expect the level 50 quests to be expedited in some way, to catch everyone up to the level 60 quests.

They may do something like, if you have a lv50 relic you can get right into the quest if you don't you have to grind X items to start the new 60 relic, already have the relic you can get started on the new upgrade quest right away.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Since when is grinding anything fun ;P (to be quite honest, the glow from them gives me migraines. I prefer the more subtly glow end game weapons like with UAT and i95 weapons)

I "ground" up to rank 40 to realize PvP gear was useless in frontlines. Did that make me rage quit? No. Was it upsetting? Sure, but I got over it quickly. Been doing it slow this time from 40-45. At least I got some glamours out of the equipment I purchased lol

Such is the life of online games. If I got mad over every little thing wrong with the way MMO typically operate, I would not be playing them and any time I did get mad enough I did quit them. For me, life's too short to worry about intangible online content that constantly evolves and changes. I will roll with the changes as they come good or bad. Lol I stuck with LOTRO up to Riders of Rohan if that's saying anything lol

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I wouldn't personally be mad, I just wouldn't play anymore I just wouldn't play anymore if the time investment the game requires stops jiving with the results. I am amused, however, that we live in a world where FPS players are totally cool with horizontal progression unlocks and hyper long-term unlocks but people playing RPGs, which are -meant- to be long term adventures, get their panties in a twist if they can't have the same thing as a player who's played longer and harder than them. If someone actually cares, it's not impossible to do the same things players have already done, especially when the progression steps are already nerfed and nerfed again on a regular basis. Game's super simplistic as it is and a lack of anything long-term, content wise, would be a major turn off.

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Originally Posted by Nonsensicles

The current relic grind is to get yourself a currently excellent weapon for current content.

That's what it's for. It's not for future content. It's for now. It build on existing stuff, but there's no reason for it to build forever. You're not doing it for forever, you're doing it for now. Once it's over, you'll still have a trophy for your efforts. No one will take your relic away from you, nor the accomplishments you made while using it.

Not forcing others to do what you did does not retroactively make your time wasted. It just means they can catch up and join in with what you're enjoying.

You are enjoying yourself, right?

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It's really not. Relic has consistently barely better than the super-easy to get alternatives and only ever really tied for BiS. If that's all they care about enjoying they can literally grab the next best thing and be no worse off. The only reason anyone does relic is because they keep getting better. You think anyone's gonna spend all that time upgrading a weapon that's a) not even the best they could get b) way harder to get than the on par or superior alternatives c) trash in the long run?
No disrespect on this part but I'd not equate grinding PvP to grinding Atma, or light, or materia. I get PvP has its own issues, however.

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Originally Posted by Avarghaladion

I wouldn't personally be mad, I just wouldn't play anymore I just wouldn't play anymore if the time investment the game requires stops jiving with the results. I am amused, however, that we live in a world where FPS players are totally cool with horizontal progression unlocks and hyper long-term unlocks but people playing RPGs, which are -meant- to be long term adventures, get their panties in a twist if they can't have the same thing as a player who's played longer and harder than them. If someone actually cares, it's not impossible to do the same things players have already done, especially when the progression steps are already nerfed and nerfed again on a regular basis. Game's super simplistic as it is and a lack of anything long-term, content wise, would be a major turn off.

It's really not. Relic has consistently barely better than the super-easy to get alternatives and only ever really tied for BiS. If that's all they care about enjoying they can literally grab the next best thing and be no worse off. The only reason anyone does relic is because they keep getting better. You think anyone's gonna spend all that time upgrading a weapon that's a) not even the best they could get b) way harder to get than the on par or superior alternatives c) trash in the long run?
No disrespect on this part but I'd not equate grinding PvP to grinding Atma, or light, or materia. I get PvP has its own issues, however.

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To answer your question. a) yes b) yes and c) yes. The reason being is that at some point I will probably finish one. I have no real interest in finishing it but I most likely will. Why, you may ask? Because I'm a completionist ;P I may absolutely hate trying to get something and may put it off until the last extreme very last minute... but I do like collecting things. There are also many people just like me as well.

IMO, the relic progression only has so much of a use and its almost outlived its current usefulness.

I would not be surprised if we received a completely revamped "relic" system that is so unlike what we are used to that there could possibly be no comparison to the current ilevels.

For example, They could actually implement a system such as we have seen in a previous FF title where we swap out materia to add in different attributes where we could learn special moves/abilities. Or have a system where your weapon simply has a base damage and literally levels up. The higher the level, the more materia( or maybe even the variety) could possibly open up.

Any such variation could and possibly would invalidate the current system, imo. Again, speculation. Any change they make to the current system could make whatever has been done irrelevant.

I won't bother with relic quest line anymore when there are currently easier ways to get weapons that are good enough.

With that said, I hope that the final relic will at least be viable weapon while leveling from 50 to 60. It'll be a huge slap in the face if vendor weap> relic for expansion

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Originally Posted by Rhas

To answer your question. a) yes b) yes and c) yes. The reason being is that at some point I will probably finish one. I have no real interest in finishing it but Imost likely will. Why, you may ask? Because I'm a completionist ;P I may absolutely hate trying to get something and may put it off until the last extreme very last minute... but I do like collecting things. There are also many people just like me as well.

IMO, the relic progression only has so much of a use and its almost outlived its current usefulness.

I would not be surprised if we received a completely revamped "relic" system that is so unlike what we are used to that there could possibly be no comparison to the current ilevels.

For example, They could actually implement a system such as we have seen in a previous FF title where we swap out materia to add in different attributes where we could learn special moves/abilities. Or have a system where your weapon simply has a base damage and literally levels up. The higher the level, the more materia( or maybe even the variety) could possibly open up.

Any such variation could and possibly would invalidate the current system, imo. Again, speculation. Any change they make to the current system could make whatever has been done irrelevant.

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Getting it at some point, probably, maybe, if you feel like it isn't the same as getting it for progression, especially when it's constantly nerfed. Again, if they want relics to be glamour trash in the long-haul, don't make them a grind reminiscient of FFXI. Obviously XI relics were substantially grindier but XIV's relics remain the grindiest thing in an otherwise disposable RPG.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I was around that game when they did this. It was really nice. I loved the way they did that. I also loved that the epic weapon quest was unique to each class. It is something I wish they would do in this game.

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Was the same way in XI but sadly they took from WoW's playbook and made everything "play 30 minutes a day and your maxed out!"

I think that relic weapon is a main part of the game and cannot be ditched. In fact there shouldn't be any weapon that match the relic stats

Nah its time for the relic to end. its nothing but a time sink / pointless grind past the zenith stage.

reg:the only decent quest, fetch a old weapon and tweak it, fight some unique mobs and a little trash mob grind then the 3 primals.
Zenith, well this is just points and done.
Atma: grind out fates in every zone until RNGesus graces you
Animus: grind 27 dungeons / 720 trash mobs / and even more fates but this time with specific delays and ect
novus: attach 500 points of materia for just the 75 points on the weapon. Heaven help you if you want a crit/det build, cause your wallet gonna bleed
Nexus: the coup de grace: 2000 points at 1 - 10 a pop doing the same crap you already did... but this time with bonus windows and it doesnt even boost your secondary stats...

Sorry, but after you finish the base relic, its nothing but a means for SE to milk more money our of us, and all for a third place weapon.


Time for a better quest: something interesting like get a horn off of Tiamat, or the scales from Fafnir. Something where you can go, "Yea i killed that big ugly thing, and got this"

Relic is here to stay. Sorry nonbelievers.

I have no doubt that relic 2.0 will start again when the expansion launches.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Was the same way in XI but sadly they took from WoW's playbook and made everything "play 30 minutes a day and your maxed out!"

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Really? I was under the impression that XI was a much worse grind fest than this game.

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Originally Posted by Deviant1

Nexus: the coup de grace: 2000 points at 1 - 10 a pop doing the same crap you already did... but this time with bonus windows and it doesnt even boost your secondary stats...

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Secondary stats are boosted, if they are past certain thresholds.
20/44 = +1
40/44 = +2
30/31 = +1

For example, if you had 20 Acc on your Novus, it will become 21 when your weapon becomes Nexus.
If you had 40 Crit on your Novus, it will become 42 at Nexus.
If you had 30 Det on your Novus, it will become 31 at Nexus.

EDIT: Corrected thresholds

not going to lie been grinding on this weapon little after the game launched last year ill be upset if my weapon becomes a paper weight ....

I always assumed that the relics would be converted into their new forms, ie: Curtana into Excalibur, then continue on upgrading from there in 3.0. So in Heavensward, PLD would be upgrading Excalibur rather than Curtana, but that means that the original curtana would still be required to progress the relic. Although it would seem like a whole new weapon. So yes, the Curtana relic is coming to and end, but Excalibur is far from over.


The time and effort required for base through to final version won't be as big a grind as people imagine. Come 3.0 I believe it will be very fast to go from base curtana to Excalibur, like not even a week. SE nerfs old content. they will nerf the relic chain. They already have nerfed atma -- old content -- got my most recent set in a couple hours. Big change from the day long grinds to get just one single atma. And when 2.5 hits and they surely make Hunts relevant again, I imagine the soldiery grind will be piece of cake.

My friend started this game 2 months ago and he already own a Novus and he almost finished his poetic gear. It's really not hard to catch up as a new player. And don't tell me about the atma grind its nerfed to the ground now. He got all atmas in 2 days and he is playing around 5 hours per day and he also did roulettes on those days. The game is easy and the gear is almost handed to you for free. I would be upset if they ditch the relic in 3.0. What's the point releasing a cosmetic relic upgrade when 3.0 is so near. For glamour? New weapons and skins will be available in 3.0. I hope we can upgrade the old relic for the new one or something.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

My friend started this game 2 months ago and he already own a Novus and he almost finished his poetic gear. It's really not hard to catch up as a new player. And don't tell me about the atma grind its nerfed to the ground now. He got all atmas in 2 days and he is playing around 5 hours per day and he also did roulettes on those days. The game is easy and the gear is almost handed to you for free. I would be upset if they ditch the relic in 3.0. What's the point releasing a cosmetic relic upgrade when 3.0 is so near. For glamour? New weapons and skins will be available in 3.0. I hope we can upgrade the old relic for the new one or something.

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Atma isn't what I'm annoyed with, it's the materia for Novus.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

Atma isn't what I'm annoyed with, it's the materia for Novus.

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What about it?

The fact that A) you need 75 pieces of materia (or more if you keep botching the melds) and B) the only way to get materia is to either gather them yourself, which takes a lot of time (and there's RNG since you can't exactly determine what materia poops out when you convert) or buy materia on the market board where certain kinds have sky high prices.

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Originally Posted by Stumpedify

I always assumed that the relics would be converted into their new forms, ie: Curtana into Excalibur, then continue on upgrading from there in 3.0. So in Heavensward, PLD would be upgrading Excalibur rather than Curtana, but that means that the original curtana would still be required to progress the relic. Although it would seem like a whole new weapon. So yes, the Curtana relic is coming to and end, but Excalibur is far from over.

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This is why I think that they will start over completely once the expansion hits. To give current, returning, and brand new players the same footing for the new process. If not, it seems like they would need to make significant changes to the 2.0 proces to catch people up given the shortage of players that would participating in the, now old, content.

Catching up to the Atma weapon is now easy. And animus is much easier than before too. With new Materia introduced the level cap increased, lvl4 Materia will be easier to Spirit Bond / cheaper to buy. I assume the amount of light rewarded will also be increased in future patches, or that new content will grant more light.

For this reason I hope that the relics will not be scrapped. Personally, I haven't bothered to upgrade past animus, and went with the soldiery weapon instead. Next I''l aim for the poetry weapon. But I would just feel bad for those people who have put in such time on their zodiac weapon, if it will become completely useless.

EDIT: on the other hand - getting a poetry weapon will probably be very easy to do by the time the expansion is released. Having to go through zenith, atma, animus, novus and nexus (and another?) to be on par with that easy to get weapon wouldn't make much sense, even if the process has become a bit easier to do. This would only become more of a problem over time, so as suggested by someone else, I can see the skip quest solution being a good compromise.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

The fact that A) you need 75 pieces of materia (or more if you keep botching the melds) and B) the only way to get materia is to either gather them yourself, which takes a lot of time (and there's RNG since you can't exactly determine what materia poops out when you convert) or buy materia on the market board where certain kinds have sky high prices.

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It's really not that bad, you don't need Tier IV materia to complete the Novus and move on to Nexus. If you absolutely *must* have that Tier IV materia, you can continue to collect/save for it after you've completed your cheap Novus. When you've got enough to make the Relic of your dreams, you can remove the cheap/unwanted stats at any time (and only the unwanted stats, keep what you want on there) and replace them with the Tier IV stuff that you've been saving for. You can do this even after you finish your Nexus.

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Originally Posted by AckersFury

Why do new players need to catch up, the relic isn't the best weapon in the game, its a glorified glamour piece, that isn't how mmo's work, you can't just drag everyone back to zero so the new kids don't feel left out, that's idiotic...the players who were there from the start and who have put the work in deserve to be infront, nerf the past content down a bit for them, but don't serve them stuff on a freaking platter

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FFXI would like a word with you. puting relics to rest is the best imho that could happen. I have 4 mythics 2 relics in FF11. not puting the legendary weapons to rest in FF11 was the dumbest decision ever and impacted the game in a very very very bad way. As much as i loved my weapons in 11, afterwards i think those weapons should have never stayed relevant for this long (and still are BiS). It demotivates any returning player because they are becomeing the standart requirment for you to get slots in endgame.

the gap between a group in FFXI sporting 6 mythics vs a group sporting normal weapons is so big, that every content designed is just easy and boring for the myth group and challenging for the normal weapon group. Trust me puting legendary weapons to rest is one of the best decisions they could do for the entire playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

It's really not that bad, you don't need Tier IV materia to complete the Novus and move on to Nexus. If you absolutely *must* have that Tier IV materia, you can continue to collect/save for it after you've completed your cheap Novus. When you've got enough to make the Relic of your dreams, you can remove the cheap/unwanted stats at any time (and only the unwanted stats, keep what you want on there) and replace them with the Tier IV stuff that you've been saving for. You can do this even after you finish your Nexus.

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I didn't bother making my Nexus into "the dreams I wanted", but no one can deny that materia can get pretty expensive and time consuming, especially when RNG screws you over on the melds.

Eh, they'll probably just make a new one. A new relic for every xpack makes sense. The people who enjoyed working for the first one will likely still enjoy it on the second, third and so forth, and then they'll have claim to owning a relic from every xpack which would be impressive to me considering how vomit-inducing I find the process.

SE put those in there for the non-raiders anyway (which is why relics require no raid items and keep a lower ilvl than current raid weaps). Sure raiders have them as well, but tons of people who've never touched coil have them. It's a bit sad SE thinks relics are the only goal non-raiders are capable of, though.

I'm mostly indifferent to relics. If they ever become necessary for raiding without actually requiring one to raid to complete one (and also keeping the previous mind-numbing requirements) is when I'll worry about quitting over them.

Personally I think they'll ease the current progression of the 2.x relics to make it easier to catch up to 3.0 and then possibly have 2 relic options to upgrade and choose from. That would give players without relics the chance to catch up or simply get the new relics while still keeping the current option from becoming irrelevant.

Maybe the newer relics will have a harder progression path so that people have an option between the current grindy relics and a harder to obtain but less grindy option.

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Originally Posted by Illya

Also the expense required for the materia to make Animus is entirely out of reach of any players who aren't hardcore gatherers or crafters. The Relic Animus weapon should be called the Relic Crafter weapon because only they can afford the materia required to make it.

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Why is it? Farming your own materia 1s to 3 is easy and cheap.

IVs are not needed. To fill if DPS, you can slot accuracy which means you can you can use armor with less accuracy and more det/crit instead. Or if healer, det crit pie etc.

The only ones who insist Materia IVs are needed are the ones putting them on the Marketboard. Pro tip, don't listen to them, use your head instead,

Well IV materia is needed if your a mix maxer which since my First Novus is not even done, i seem to be one, lol.
Pre 2.4 i can totally see having IV materia would be the best possible stats as the soldiery gear is kind of meh, but now with the stats of the new gear that changes things up.
Still going full crit however but need about 6 more det iv to max so will now just add acc instead

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Personally I think they'll ease the current progression of the 2.x relics to make it easier to catch up to 3.0 and then possibly have 2 relic options to upgrade and choose from. That would give players without relics the chance to catch up or simply get the new relics while still keeping the current option from becoming irrelevant.

Maybe the newer relics will have a harder progression path so that people have an option between the current grindy relics and a harder to obtain but less grindy option.

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i would rather see them implement exclusiv flying mounts for each finished relic as a reward and let the weapons die off tbh.

I doubt they would abandon the relics, considering the amount of time people have put into them - on top of the general complaint about the table-flipping grinding ("Getting my relic weapons was so much fun!", said no one ever). The amount of playerbase that would be incredibly pissed and put off from the game would be too significant of a hit.

More then likely, they will incorporate the current (and/or future) relic weapons into either more progressively spec'd relics (kind of like now - but it's kind of silly that they already have easier to obtain better weapons available instead of some of relic phases... Yagrush, etc), or to be eventually turned into one big uber weapon (that will take a while to out-date/out-spec) by the end of it.

There just can't be NO reason to put the majority of the player base through this nonsense merry-go-round just to drop it somewhere like an old moldy piece of bread.... if they do, I'll be exceedingly annoyed. o_O It would be a bad business decision, imho.

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Originally Posted by Priya

SE put those in there for the non-raiders anyway (which is why relics require no raid items and keep a lower ilvl than current raid weaps). Sure raiders have them as well, but tons of people who've never touched coil have them. It's a bit sad SE thinks relics are the only goal non-raiders are capable of, though.

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You know, I never really thought about that o.oa

I really do hope they come to an end. I like the idea of relics, but the problem is that they become the end all be all of end game weaponry, while other weapons that are out there or could be used as alternatives are put on the back burner. The same can be said for gear available that is collected with the allagan pieces - I don't mind it being there, but it becomes the entire focus point.

The game suffers from a serious lack of creativity and choice for end game gear. Although I guess it can't be helped when you consider that weapon choices are limited to just one type based on the class; something I disagree with but fits into the setting of FF.

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Originally Posted by Rakashu

I really do hope they come to an end. I like the idea of relics, but the problem is that they become the end all be all of end game weaponry, while other weapons that are out there or could be used as alternatives are put on the back burner. The same can be said for gear available that is collected with the allagan pieces - I don't mind it being there, but it becomes the entire focus point.

The game suffers from a serious lack of creativity and choice for end game gear. Although I guess it can't be helped when you consider that weapon choices are limited to just one type based on the class; something I disagree with but fits into the setting of FF.

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Curious where you are in the relic weapon hunt? Do you have a Novus or Nexus?

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Originally Posted by Priya

SE put those in there for the non-raiders anyway (which is why relics require no raid items and keep a lower ilvl than current raid weaps). Sure raiders have them as well, but tons of people who've never touched coil have them. It's a bit sad SE thinks relics are the only goal non-raiders are capable of, though.

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You're actually so true about this. SE has to kind of base itself from the origin point (which is Japan) and everything they think about kinda stems from how that group goes at it. As such, relics ARE the thing that non-raiders are supposed to go for because they are so attuned to the idea that the endgame stuff is the stuff you have to work for. They largely had/have no idea that US players buy their coil runs and can therefore obtain what is supposed to be won with effort. To them, the relic should never be the best because EVERYONE can obtain one.

Hopefully they clue into the fact that people are not doing things the way they originally imagined and try to compensate in some way. Like, make relic and endgame weapons even more comparable because you're either going to do the longer process or do/buy a fight and hope for a drop.