game sold about 7 million... if even 50% of those people liked it thats about 3 times more then the normal gameQuote:
Originally Posted by danny52844
Gearswaps are dead - long live the Jobswaps!
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08-05-2011, 05:29 AMDNO
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08-05-2011, 05:50 AMRinsui
@Reinheart
Yes... actually the whole blog made me scratch my head a few times. Somewhere around 10 and 11 SE simply lost it. When things like avoiding some stupid flash 200 times in a row suddenly replaced intelligent strategy and captivating story, something died.
Oh boy. Now I'm in a fix. Should I keep my old quote or use this one instead...Quote:
u'r insults are just rediculous
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08-05-2011, 05:51 AMDNOCan use either one both are funny lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
This poll is biased and silly
/thread -
08-05-2011, 05:55 AMRinsuiYes, I guess I'll keep both for now. Still upset because I didn't like the way you made your poll? Get over it. It wasn't intended to be a personal attack - although, reading my post from back then again, I understand it sounds like one.Quote:
Can use either one both are funny lol.
This poll is biased and silly
/thread
...
I just read your sig. You sure are angry. There is, however a misconception: Having a strong opinion about a topic does not automatically mean that a poll you make is biased. People wouldn't make polls if they had no interest in a topic. My problem with your poll was that the wording of the two answering options was not neutral; basically you said "like X, which is very cool and interesting because of reasons B and C, or like Y, which only a moron would agree to. Do you want to be a moron?". That's not a poll. That's tricking people into answering the way you want them to. -
08-05-2011, 05:59 AMDNOreword your poll so it does not sound like your trolling.... i had to in my poll...... and mab people will take it a little better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
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08-05-2011, 06:05 AMDNOangry? hardly. but am i laughing at how silly you look? yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
Mine was a typo you just showed how "smart" you really are.
Biased poll is biased. change the OP then ill leave ^^ -
08-05-2011, 06:08 AMDNO
Plus to top it off some other guy made a completey "unbiased" poll and the answer and votes was still the same. Your mad no one agreed with you. thats sad....
Edit:
I am also amazed at how you view this fanbase. you really think people are so stupid that a biased poll will change how they feel about something. its really funny. -
08-05-2011, 06:12 AMGaloot
I believe you stay locked on certain character when he or she changes equipment in this game, but I'm not sure if it applies to job changing.
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08-05-2011, 06:13 AMRinsuiYes. You definitely sound like one who's having a great time.Quote:
angry? hardly am i laughing at how stupid you look? yes.
Mine was a typo you just showed how "smart" you really are.
Biased poll is biased. change the OP then ill leave ^^
(...)
The typo in my sig says nothing about you. We all make lots of
typos, and the link between typo count and stupidity is fairly weak.
But it sure looks stupid, so I considered it quote-worthy. (Actually
I had long forgotten it was taken from one of your posts until you
told me right now). It should be gone by now; which also spares
me the hassle of deciding which one is better.
I see nothing wrong with my OP, however. But if enough people
tell me it sounds biased (?), I'll have to change it. But not because
of one guy who's... well, having a great time.
P.S.: I don't want you to leave. If you have an opinion, voice it. -
08-05-2011, 06:19 AMDNOi said nothin about the sigs intill you had to "ninja" edit your post to talk about mine. that means you had to say something about it not me. anyway you got me the sig is funny i really do mean that and i got you. i am not gonna argue with you again it didn't work in the last thread and im sure it aint gonna work now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
P.S. scroll up i did voice my opinion. -
08-05-2011, 06:37 AMJemThis is false equalization, it's NOT a circler argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by danny52844
1) wants the game to stay as it is, and currently it allows you to choose how you play. Micro-manage or don't micro a system with the freedom to choose.
2) wants to get SE to create NEW restrictions that lock you into a certain type of game-play for no other reason then to be exactly that, restrictive. Restrictions that SE has never even made mention they are thinking about or planning to make.
these are NOT equal. i don't know how to explain it any better.
on-topic: I'm having a hard time understanding the opposition to this. Everyone who bought the game signed up for this, the armory system and how it worked has been in the games details even before the alpha, even then some of us talked about how the late game would work and this is it, but the cool thing about this is you can play how you want. Don't want to level another class/job it's your game, don't do it. People are acting like this was something recently added, it has been there all along players have already been using it. Dungeons have just made it more noticeable.
People are also making this out to be Armageddon when it may not even be that bad for the most part, it may just be nice having 2 types of physical Dds if you like physical classes, having a tank setup and a DPS setup, or having a nuker and a healer if you mainly like magic users.
I have a feeling that most players in the late-game, once the game is in full swing and the major fixes have been done and major content starts to roll in, are going to want to rank a few max level classes if for nothing more then a wider options of abilities, and at least 2 jobs just to be able to do something different when they long on day after day. Instead of having skill trees FFXIV has a mostly unrestricted class systems and that's how you make unique characters, but to be more diverse and have even more options.... yes you are gonna have to put some work into it, if you want it, again you choose how to play.
Two things to consider that might make you change your mind about this being bad:
At first no one is going to expect this of people because it will be rare for everyone to have the requirements to do it. but in time even most players are going to get bored with just doing 1 thing and level something new. And second, new classes/jobs WILL be added eventually are you going to what? abandon your max level classes/jobs and make the new ones your "main", or because you can't have more then one class/job you ignore the new ones? -
08-05-2011, 06:45 AMRinsuiStill reading your post, but there's already a big misconception. You're not "free to choose" when the party leader decides to accept you based on the number of swaps you are able to perform during one run.Quote:
1) wants the game to stay as it is, and currently it allows you to choose how you play. Micro-manage or don't micro a system with the freedom to choose.
No, without dungeons it was not possible to see this coming, and luckily I think the current state (before Jobs are implemented) is just a "dry run". SE actually put in saveguards against gear-swapping that were not in place in FFXI. If that isn't a hint...Quote:
on-topic: I'm having a hard time understanding the opposition to this. Everyone who bought the game signed up for this
I guess you missed the party. People are already expecting this ^.^;/Quote:
At first no one is going to expect this
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08-05-2011, 06:52 AMdanny52844it shipped 5mil games most of them sold so ill say 5m copies were sol lets say 50% didnt like it thats only 2.5m happy ppl away from thier high from ff7 that was around 10m happy playersQuote:
Originally Posted by DNO
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08-05-2011, 06:55 AMRinsuiBesides, just like with FFXIV, people possibly simply couldn't believe the initial reviews... ;)Quote:
it shipped 5mil games most of them sold so ill say 5m copies were sol lets say 50% didnt like it thats only 2.5m happy ppl away from thier high from ff7 that was around 10m happy players
Or they made the mistake to pre-order... -
08-05-2011, 07:10 AMJemGear works completely different in FFXIV then it did in FFXI, for FFXIV it basically makes up your base combat stats so because of this you need to upgrade your gear in tiers to become stronger aka upgrading. In FFXI good gear was sometimes good for not only a few levels but sometimes forever, ex. CoP rings that start at level 30 and are still worn by most players at 90, multiple gear sets could be tailored to different things aka sidegrading. So it's not a hint about anything, it's just two different ways of doing gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
Forgive me for my bluntness but just because "You" didn't see this coming doesn't mean it wasn't possible. myself and others in the FFXI community discussed this game often before release and this exact inevitability was obvious after the armory system was detailed.
@ you editing your post while i was trying to quote it, it was freaking me out at first because the page would refresh and i would reread what i was quoting and it was different LOL -
08-05-2011, 07:17 AMDNOwhoops sorry 5 million idk were i got 7 mil.Quote:
Originally Posted by danny52844
Away the point still stands 2.5 million is good. but of course you are right ff7 and 13 huge difference i wont debate that no matter how much i like ff13. -
08-05-2011, 07:25 AMAlkounThe problem is people already DO expect this. I wouldn't have a problem with class/job-swapping if it was on my own terms, but it isn't. It's on the terms of the party leader. And yes, people do indeed have the requirements to do it since most people have had more than enough time to exploit the old SP bonus thing with guildleves pre-1.18.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem
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08-05-2011, 07:28 AMJemhehe yeah i haven't even arrived at the party yet, so i won't argue with you there. I've been interested in this game for years and still am, but I've given it chances and though i really like some of it still fills incomplete so when i say "at first" i kinda mean after the game is finished. Reviewers occasionally used the word "soulless" when describing FFXIV and i have yet to see something that makes me disagree with that. I've had a taste of the FFXIV community and i haven't liked what i see. So, my grand plan is to follow it closely, excite myself about improvements and real content, and to deal with the bad community i will wait it out. the launch of the PS3 version will bring in some new blood at least enough to breath some new air into the player-base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
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08-05-2011, 09:01 AMDargoth_DraconiaI really don't think this is a good idea because of how things may play out in the future. You say you don't want it like FFXI? Or am I wrong, by doing this would inevitably make it just like FFXI. Also what if you have 8 people in a dungeon and you play a Conjurer and let's say an Archer. (Stats not being important atm because stats are already being planned to be reworked and with the abolish of physical levels a way to retain independent stats for each individual class will be available). Let us say you came in as an Archer and someone d/c's and doesn't get back on and it's a healer and you are under a time limit. Should your run be screwed? No, you should be able to change your job in the dungeon if you want. Also this goes with the direction of the game of being able to change to whatever class/job you want as long as you are not in battle and to change it would be counter productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
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08-05-2011, 09:45 AMNel_Celestine
While i can agree with that, lets flip the coin.
Archer seems to be the best DD for this due to being able to stay outside the AoE range and Conjurer helps with healing the tank for rushing to the boss fight. Lets say there now there are two people who want to do the run. One person ONLY has Archer up to Rank50 and the other has BOTH Archer and Conjurer. With the current mind set you will pick the second one and have them swap FORCING the other play to go level a job she/he might not have an interest in JUST so they can participate in a dungeon run. -
08-05-2011, 11:22 AMDargoth_DraconiaNot how we do things. We don't force anyone to do anything, we ask and if they say no then your done and you find someone else. These dungeons are really meant to be done with a LS especially since it is considered the temporary end game content. That problem may rise up but you have an option, either do it or don't, noone is going to force you to do anything. Either you will allow it or find another group, end of story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine
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08-05-2011, 02:31 PMdanny52844lol im on the latter i pre ordered :| fuckQuote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
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08-05-2011, 02:33 PMdanny52844so ur saying if i ever want to do a dungeon and if i dont have 50 arch and con and if u ask to come as both and i say i dont have it we'll be done and ull find someone else and ill be fucked out of a dungeonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
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08-05-2011, 02:45 PMNabiriI would also like if we were locked in the class we started on for anything instanced. I think it will call for more strategy and teamwork. I'd like to see people learning to overcome challenges with the class/job they've chosen than just use all of them to accomplish things. Seems it would take away from the experience if people could just do everything and anything at the drop of a hat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
If people are going to be able to use all the classes at any time, why even have more than one class in the game? Why not just make one class that can do everything? It's basically the same thing. -
08-05-2011, 06:42 PMDuelleThe precedent set by FFXI would like to have a word with you. History is repeating itself, from the looks of it. I'm surprised you have yet to understand its stuff like this that heavily influences trends in-game.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMog
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08-05-2011, 10:45 PMLeenk
It doesnt seem like anyone has mentioned inventory space. You can tell with the direction they're starting to take with gear that by the time they start raising level cap that you'll be wearing a ton of class specific gear in order to be the best. Noone is going to be able to bring 3 or 4 classes to switch multiple times in a raid because theres no way they'll be able to remain optimal with limited inventory.
Maybe you could bring two classes. or bring more and be gimp in the gear department, but that will eventually have an impact on end game.
As much as i hate the idea of people who have more time to play having an advantage over those of us who are lucky to get one class to max rank, i cant see locking classes once in a dungeon. It's counter-intuitive to the armoury system -
08-05-2011, 11:39 PMDargoth_DraconiaI was simply using those 2 classes as an example. If you don't have either class that isn't needed to into a dungeon with my group then no, you would not be invited. Does that mean you are screwed out of a run? No, because there is 100 other groups running these things.Quote:
Originally Posted by danny52844
Plus how does this differ from switching jobs in the middle of the dungeon? If you don't have said job to begin with you aren't going. If you are already in the run people aren't going to ask you to switch to a class you do not have, or you are not geared/specced for, unless there is no choice and then you ask. If you say no you start over, the run only takes an hour to complete and most people have 10-15 minutes left over after they drop the boss. Starting over costs you usually only a handful of time. -
08-06-2011, 12:54 AMMolly_Millions
job swaps are fine with me, as long as we can never do it mid-fight. That's one aspect of this game I really really like.
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08-06-2011, 01:02 AMWynn
I kind of agree with Molly. Class changing, as long as it can't be done in the middle of a fight, is kind of what this game is all about.
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08-06-2011, 05:00 AMDargoth_Draconia
That's what I was saying as well. That was the idea this game was built on, not having to go all the way to the Moghouse or w/e to change you class, this isn't FFXI. You inventory space is the key and bringing weapons a long and taking up your inventory space with weapons and armor. I would like to see more class specific single class/job only gear. This way it will take up a lot more inventory space and change the fact you can run around and be any Melee DD by using the same set of gear. I think some of these people might be happy with that, the others will never be happy. Lol.
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08-06-2011, 06:10 AMRinsui...which is a great thing, because we like to micromanage our inventory space during dungeon runs...?Quote:
You inventory space is the key and bringing weapons a long and taking up your inventory space with weapons and armor. I would like to see more class specific single class/job only gear. This way it will take up a lot more inventory space
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08-06-2011, 10:14 AMHolyomen
My preference is sticking to one class/job.
But I wouldn't mind switching if the game made it quick and easy.
And by quick and easy I mean you can change from an effective battle ready GLA to an effective battle ready CON without slowing down the party. -
08-06-2011, 01:16 PMdanny52844lol i didnt get into ur group the other group will say the exact same requirement so on so on so on so on and i might get 1 run aweek lucky so plz tel me how that isnt gimp when a person with 50 arch and con can do a run every 5 min timer after the last dungeon they didQuote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
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08-06-2011, 11:21 PMLeenkYour not suppose to, that's kind of the point. If you want to be switching classes multiple times during a raid you can, but you're going to have to deal with the added downtime and extra inventory.Quote:
..which is a great thing, because we like to micromanage our inventory space during dungeon runs...?
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08-07-2011, 12:53 AMAlise
I think most people only play 1 classes to max. and since that is the majority, of course, they will prefer the job locked so that multiple classes people don't have benefit over them ~_~
somehow, that is what I feel. Other than that, I don't understand which part is "bad memory" and why are they "bad"? because you aren't allowed you join unless you have multiple classes?
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08-07-2011, 01:38 AMCricaNothing. And nothing is wrong if they prefer to game that way. Don't game with them if you do not prefer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino
Options in a game allow players to choose how they prefer to game.
Find players who prefer to use the options in the game that you do.
Please refrain from trying to prevent other players from using options in the game that you do not prefer to use because I do not think you would want other players to try to prevent you from using the options in the game that you do prefer to use. -
08-07-2011, 05:50 PMRinsui...unless you are playing a MMO, where the most efficient "option" becomes the standard. I would sure like to know the average rank of players entering Totorak. Sould be around 46.Quote:
Options in a game allow players to choose how they prefer to game.
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08-07-2011, 06:39 PMKikosho
There isn't anything inherently wrong with class/job changes on the fly in dungeons. SE has made liberal use of that mechanic throughout the past games. But there are 2 major issues with it concerning XIV. Firstly, it ain't exactly a quick venture to rank up all the classes, especially now that leve linking abuse has been nipped in the bud. So those that never jumped on that boat, have to deal with a slower climb to max out their characters and become versatile.
Secondly, class changes right now are cumbersome and clunky. Macros are slow and should you decide to change gear and abilities, it's not an instant thing. If they can streamline that, make it as instant as X-2 (minus the cutscenes) and XIII, then they'd be on the right track. Just having abilities and gear set to how it was the last time the class was used or a certain user created profile for that class would do wonders for this issue.
Aside from that, I do think it's lame that SE designs content in a way that certain classes are inefficient to get gear for said inefficient classes. I wonder if anyone has been able to actually get all 5 chests with all classes in the party with only 1 class repeating. -
08-07-2011, 07:08 PMRinsui
Quick solution pulled out of my rear:
Why not give some sort of "diversity" bonus to all parties. A buff that increases in magnitude for every different class you have in your party or something? Or have enemies adapt to certain strategies on the fly. Like, increasing resistance to magic/piercing attacks if a boss is only attacked by magic/piercing attacks during a fight...?