Question 18 of XVII Q&A Live Letter

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's not the mercing itself. It's the fact that people are getting carried. This is the main issue, even if you don't agree.

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What is the difference between a FC carrying a less skilled member and someone buying a run from a non-friend group? Either way, carries happen. One just has currency changing hands, so either that's the only issue or there is no issue at all. It can't be that someone is getting carried - what would SE care about that? I can see them caring about the economic impact of the amount of gil changing hands, but then again, this economy is so broken I don't see why they would even bother at this point.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's not the mercing itself. It's the fact that people are getting carried. This is the main issue, even if you don't agree.

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Time to make Matt (maat) fights for level or dungeon entrance. lol

I dont think they should develop socially restricting systems to stop playing or helping other players, if they want people to follow a specified path then just do that with skill checks here and there -- not social. They've started to do path progression control with ilevel requirements to enter dungeons, can't enter without having a certain combination of previous stages. Just make the ilevel more strict, can't enter without at least 8/10 of the previous tier ilevel.. that'd certainly put people through more of the content and more opportunity to learn at a good pace (the token system would need to be modified in respect to the highest dungeon you've "mastered" so you can't buy farther than you can play, but otherwise I think that'd help this issue a bit).

Besides the system doesn't stop carrying anyways (indirectly it may have an effect on being helped, but directly it just slows people because of all the social hoola hoops - this group is not just "scrubs").

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

What is the difference between a FC carrying a less skilled member and someone buying a run from a non-friend group? Either way, carries happen.

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quantity, incentive, general perception, jealousy, RMT.

- an FC only has to carry so many members, a seller group will carry as many as there is willing to pay.
- FC members get bored of doing it after while when the only reason to is to be nice.
- FC carries don't have to be advertised via the open chat channels or the Party Finder for everyone to see.
- FC carries will only annoy other FC members who for some reason don't get carried, Sells will annoy everyone who won't/can't pay
- FC carries don't tempt players to partake in RMT

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Originally Posted by skaterger

So just selfish? For your own personal benefit. Like I mentioned, you can still do every other content in the game with them. Coil is locked for a reason, and a good one.

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So because I want to do, what is considered the hardest content in the game with friends makes me selfish, and you imply I am lazy because I want wins handed to me. Want imply anything else?

Besides leveling the uninteresting jobs I haven't leveled, there isn't much I haven't done in terms of content. beating coil is one of the last things.

Also I help people all the time when I get to play for about an hour. Several times I have used up my little time playing to teach random people what to do in dungeons if they are new.

I can name more, the only thing you have proven to me with your points is that you are a jerk.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

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You just affirmed that the only reason you think the lockout works is because it benefits YOUR group greatly. Open up the turns for everyone and there goes the market since it will give everyone and anyone the chance to sell the runs (if they want to) - you have it backwards though (as far as market goes); having it locked doesn't keep it competitive, it negates it seeing as how you basically have it cornered because you have the advantage of a steady group that can sell runs and do runs on the sides (assuming YOU DO have those alts).

I'm not hating you for it. Lockout or not, this shit gets nerfed anyways and anyone wasting their gil for a CARRY is debatable (I've seen people buy GEAR. Personally to me, that's different..) so don't think anyone has sour grapes on the matter.

But in this post you come off as if, from a business perspective, you want to make sure NO ONE else has their hands on selling runs and keep it limited with only a few groups so you can make bank as much as you can. If you think this is beneficial to the community, it's more of the devil you know I suppose. If people are comfortable (ignorance is bliss) with you and other elite groups just having control of it versus the entire community (steady hardcore raiders and a few casuals), then yeah - pick your poison since we haven't seen the effect of EVERYONE being given the option to sell runs.

If anything, The Hunt taught me that having unlimited access to free shit makes anyone cray-cray with greed. The REAL question is, had we not had lock-outs to begin with, would stupid effects like the Hunt not happen in the first place? I mean it's like denying someone fatty food for months, then leaving them alone in a room full of sweet stuff, what do you think will happen?

To solve the lockout problem they need either raids of variable size or good pre-raid preparation content (like more elaborate dungeons that can only be done with people on the current server). The hardest part about raiding is figuring out who to raid with due to the social pressure involved. Of course people would love higher level raiders to run them through the content, but asking that of what little raiding community we have isn't fair to those raiders who had to stomach much of the same problems.

How about (using as an example): Regular Second Coil only gives UAT's, Oils and Sands (and maybe a "Broken High Allagan Weapon" from T9. Gotta beat it to unlock Savage mode), while Savage Second Coil will drop the High Allagan equipment, with T9 either dropping the High Allagan weapon or the item needed to fix the weapon. Naturally they can not do that with Second Coil, since it would be a slap on the face to people still working on beating T6-T9, but with Third Coil... IF SE throw in another Weathered gear set. You can go back to do the Regular Turns to help or fill in as a replacement, but you can not roll on the items.

Also, as I clearly have not done Savage Coil, is it possible to carry people through it? If not, then that also may not need a player lockout :O

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

what she said

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This is spot on accurate. In addition to this, lockouts force you to run Coil only at a particular time and only with the same people (unless you're prepared to deal with the rigours of PUG'ing).
Whether I happen to kite T7 better than any of those elite statics selling carries, it doesn't matter because I can't even do Coil due to the restrictions imposed and will never join an elitist static.
So open it up to everyone, the elitists are going to sell carries on their 2nd and 3rd accounts until the lockout is removed anyway.
Server 1st who cares, they're all running parsers anyway.
Making players wait entire patches to access content through Duty Finder such as 2nd Coil and Ramuh Ex just does not make sense.

#itallgetsnerfedanyway

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

This is spot on accurate. In addition to this, lockouts force you to run Coil only at a particular time and only with the same people (unless you're prepared to deal with the rigours of PUG'ing).
Whether I happen to kite T7 better than any of those elite statics selling carries, it doesn't matter because I can't even do Coil due to the restrictions imposed and will never join an elitist static.
So open it up to everyone, the elitists are going to sell carries on their 2nd and 3rd accounts until the lockout is removed anyway.
Server 1st who cares, they're all running parsers anyway.
Making players wait entire patches to access content through Duty Finder such as 2nd Coil and Ramuh Ex just does not make sense.

#itallgetsnerfedanyway

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qFHF-szZLr...bride+meme.jpg

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

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Huh? I was pointing out how a lockout restricts supply therefore making selling lucrative, people are saying that taking the lock out will benefit carrying too much but at the moment it's actually the best situation for mercs because it makes the most money. T9 in particular is not at all an easy carry so it's not like I'd anticipate tons of competition even if there was no lockout, It will take an increase in the ilevel and echo before it is easy to carry.

As it turns out carrying someone is hard, and for all the people out there who claim that it's just groups that hold them back there's a real shortage of players who are truly as good as they say they are. I do see the effect of everyone being able to sell runs on non-lock out content and still few step up. If anything I wish there was more competition on our server, challenge is still the real reason to play and money/loot is secondary to that.

Having it locked does keep it competitive because loot in progression content is meant to be for a group, not a player, and loot being a team's business has been bread and butter for progression raiding since forever. Look at how groups rationed out UAT and sands in the early weeks of 2.2, it was working as intended so when raids come out it is made for absolutely no one else in mind but progression raiders.

And for SE it is good because by average someone in a group will draw the short straw and get terrible loot luck, and they actually depend on this to extend the content past the number of slots in your gear converted into weeks; until the next raid comes out. Personally I think they undermined this in 2.3 and the lock out during this patch is somewhat pointless, especially when it conflicts with the actual progression content in this patch, savage coil.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qFHF-szZLr...bride+meme.jpg

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Elitist has a negative meaning among MMOS. regardless if you know it's "true" meaning it's almost always used as a negative term.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

Elitist has a negative meaning among MMOS. regardless if you know it's "true" meaning it's almost always used as a negative term.

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It's funny because the amount of real elitists is fairly low. People just like to make excuses for everything. What people actual mean is "impatient" but.. *shrug* ignorance is bliss.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Having it locked does keep it competitive because loot in progression content is meant to be for a group, not a player, and loot being a team's business has been bread and butter for progression raiding since forever.

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Coil, unrestricted, without the buffs... do you believe it will suddenly become hell on earth where sells for carries/gears are going to flood and ruin market/gameplay?

I'm reading it wrong, but you sound like you're contradicting yourself - If restrictions are changed, you'll still need a competent group to clear/farm it - but this time the "competition" pool will be wider because groups will have better versatility in farming schedules. So per your note, this will benefit progression groups. Hopefully I'm understanding what you mean.

The restrictions we currently have are put in place because this is the only way SE feels they can extend the content.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

It's funny because the amount of real elitists is fairly low. People just like to make excuses for everything. What people actual mean is "impatient" but.. *shrug* ignorance is bliss.

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At face value, elitists is actually a positive connotation - it implies the best of the best (best pool of skilled players). In this game, instances are nerfed and Joe Bloe will be walking around with the same gear you have but at least you have the personal bragging rights for yourself that you cleared it first and, as my friend used to say, "in its pure form" (without the buffs). But in reality, you're right - no one I know has rubbed this in anyone's face. Seems everyone keeps it civil and professional.

Here is another translation from BG.

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Why haven't you been able to relax the entry restrictions into the Bahamut's Dungeons with the Second Coil?

It's not that we haven't been considering it, but the current situation is the best we've come up with so far. If people could get the items and then help other people get their items, it would lead to fast inflation of item levels which we want to avoid. We are taking all of this into consideration, but for now we don't have a solution.

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So the reasoning is basically that it would allow people to gear up too fast. Then on the other hand we have hunts, which help people gear up way faster than coil ever would. So none of this really makes much sense.

I.e. There is ZERO compelling reasons why coil should remain locked like it is, when hunts exist.

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

Coil, unrestricted, without the buffs... do you believe it will suddenly become hell on earth where sells for carries/gears are going to flood and ruin market/gameplay?

I'm reading it wrong, but you sound like you're contradicting yourself - If restrictions are changed, you'll still need a competent group to clear/farm it - but this time the "competition" pool will be wider because groups will have better versatility in farming schedules. So per your note, this will benefit progression groups. Hopefully I'm understanding what you mean.

The restrictions we currently have are put in place because this is the only way SE feels they can extend the content.

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Your latter point was half my exact point, it is in place because they consider loot as a team/server wide thing as opposed to a personal thing and by the law of large numbers the distribution will be even world wide, but your average group will be left wanting loot far longer than a plain loot lock out. It is not for our benefit but theirs.

In terms of promoting competition the intended design for a team based lock out is so clears are very firmly fixed within a static team, so the idea is that every new clear is with a completely fresh team and everyone gets the same progression experience, this is what I mean by competitive because at least early on each team develops unique strategies in competition with each other. This is diminished as time goes on by the amount of clears leading to information sharing and videos that standardize strats, so the problem solving part of progression is lost. I think when it reaches the point where things are "standard" a lock out per team stops serving a point aside from restricting loot, and we were past that point well before 2.3.

They also keep the integrity of things such as titles, but this game only does it for savage and there's no realm first titles so I actually don't think it would be too bad to have such a lock out as someone proposed before, where there is no entry restriction but if one person in the group has cleared before there is no loot. And in regards to savage the situation you described is absolutely the case, the fact that it shares a lock out with something on farm is actually encouraging less competition right now and its a shame, stuff that is in progression should not be treated the same as something people are farming.

In regards to carries my exact point is that carries won't flood the market much more now I think we agree. Carrying some content actually is decently difficult and to be honest I don't know if its a lack of interest or the fact that most people aren't up to the task of carrying. Titan EM was never locked and had incredible demand but for a short while there were incredibly few people carrying it because doing it with 3 DPS at i90 was too tricky for most people capable of clearing. The reason why a lock out makes carries insanely profitable isn't because there's a lack of competition, but because the fact you can only carry one person a week means the price is set by the highest bidder.

It's a shame that most of this thread is just people shouting about the "horrors" of rampant merc runs should the lockout be removed, ignoring how it screws the general population and FCs. Should just use that energy to think of a way to have the lockout removed, allow FCs to help their own members while simultaneously make run selling more difficult (it's never going away, ever.)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Time to make Matt fights for level or dungeon entrance. lol

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While this may have been in jest, this is a decent start. If players have to perform a sort of solo trial to attune themselves to the highest tier content to at least display that they aren't braindead and are proficient at their job & are able to perform some mechanics, it'd limit the ability to sell runs to everyone with deep pockets. Will this hurt FCs as well? Of course, but at least the ball is in the player's court.

Makes me wonder how BLM Maat would work in this game... especially if you can't use your cross class abilities (yet he can use Second Wind and Simian Thrash because lol he's also a MNK somehow).

Free companies might help with a solution. Make it so if you are part of a free company you can enter as many times as you want as long as all 8 are from the same FC.

Not everyone is gonna quit their FC for a carry especially since the items are not guaranteed and mixed with a loot lock out like crystal tower has.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

It's a shame that most of this thread is just people shouting about the "horrors" of rampant merc runs should the lockout be removed, ignoring how it screws the general population and FCs. Should just use that energy to think of a way to have the lockout removed, allow FCs to help their own members while simultaneously make run selling more difficult (it's never going away, ever.)

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How exactly does the lockout screw over the general population and FCs? Let's get something clear. The only time a lockout is in effect is when someone has cleared the turn for that week. If both parties have not cleared the turn, they can still play together so long as they can find a common time. Whether a lockout is implemented or not would not change anything in that regard. So when you say that you want a lockout removed, what you are saying is that you want to put someone who has not cleared a turn with a person/people that have cleared it before. If you ever run titan ex, or coil with people that have experience, you would know that the difference between an experienced and inexperienced party is night and day. A clear party can make up for your mistakes, can cover you when you are not performing optimally or if you want to put it less audibly pleasing, carry you.

Now you might ask, what is wrong with an fc static helping other members of the fc. This is an mmorpg after all, people should help others right? Here is where I disagree. IMO, the spirit of raiding (and this also draws on my raiding in previous games) should be to go into an encounter "fresh", and watch your team grow and progress until you finally get the clear. And the spirit in which to maintain it, should the lockout be removed, is to have 1-2 experienced players to guide the other 5 or 6 other members. This would be perfectly fine. But chances of this happening are virtually non existant. The group that cleared it has probably spent hundreds of hours wiping to get to that point and don't wish to wipe again with a new team. So what will happen is that they will bring 1 new player in each time. At this point, if the new player can carry their weight in the group, it would probably still be all right but with the way coil is designed, with all the one shot mechanics and the ability to wipe your team members, they would probably not last long before they are told "Just go die there, we'll clear it for you". Add to that the 500 members fc where each member is clamouring for a carry and you can see how this can get out of hand fast. And I'm not speaking out of my behind because I've experienced this personally. We have been rotating people in our coil groups and current members have been stepping out to bring new players in to help them clear it, all this even with the lockout where we can only help one person a week. We have done it for T6 and T7 successfully with 7 man, and are trying T8 and T9 the coming weeks. And I'm sure I'm not the only person here to have experienced this.

just came and see the question on that live letter....

they should ask for this : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ctice-Mode-%29

:(

I don't care about people selling runs anymore.

I used to, but I realize now it's a trivial concern. People who buy they way through content are only hurting themselves.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

Elitist has a negative meaning among MMOS. regardless if you know it's "true" meaning it's almost always used as a negative term.

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

At face value, elitists is actually a positive connotation - it implies the best of the best (best pool of skilled players).

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seriously? people really do not know what elitist means. it's not positive and it's not just in MMOs.

Elitist doesn't mean "the most Elite", Elitist is not to Elite as Tallest is to Tall. -ist is not -est, Elitest isn't a real word.

Elitist favors rule and domination of the Elite, everything should cater to them, everything should be designed for their use first and foremost and everyone who is not Elite can and should be content with whatever scraps are leftover.

you can be Elite without being Elitist, you can also be Elitist without being Elite.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

How exactly does the lockout screw over the general population and FCs?

Here is where I disagree. IMO, the spirit of raiding (and this also draws on my raiding in previous games) should be to go into an encounter "fresh", and watch your team grow and progress until you finally get the clear.

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my FC is average sized. we run 4 Coil groups, the top 2 run really consistently, the other 2 not so much, they are mostly comprised of people with more irregular job schedules and/or family obligations. at best it's only possible to run for 2-3 hours once a week and sometimes even that gets interrupted, usually because 1 person has something come up.

so the group ends up either not running for an entire week or PUGing the last spot (or 2) in which they don't really grow/progress together and end up spending more time trying to find someone that can help clear. and that doesn't at all help in progression because you end up with someone who can clear T6 but have to teach them T7 from scratch or you end up with someone who can do T6 & 7 but have no interest in sticking around for the group to learn T8. people with such tight schedules don't have time to put PF up over and over again.

without a strict lockout you can fill those vacant spots with people from the first 2 groups.

I really hope they are able to find some method to opening future raids without having lockouts.

I can understand that they don't want to have the Crystal Tower design, as people would obtain the endgame loot they want too fast through farming and only rolling on the piece they need when it comes up.

The only way I can think of that would make it fair in all aspects, would be to have another Token system.

Example

Second Coil Turn 1 - Members who don't get a drop will receive a Rafflasia Sprout Token
Second Coil Turn 2 - Members who don't get a drop will receive a Mellusine Eye Token
....etc

These tokens will prevent you from rolling on further loot, or getting further token drops, per week, per turn. But X number of tokens can be traded for gear that would drop in their respective turns.

While it may let players gear up slightly faster (nothing compared to Oils and Sands from Hunts anyways) it should meet a middle ground on being able party with members outside your Static Group. It can also be fine tuned by adjusting the number of tokens required from a piece of gear, but most importantly it should let you get those Glamors you really really want!!

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This design will let people sell carry runs, but they will eventually anyways. There's not really a reason to police people doing that anyways. If people have the gil to spend why not.
When skilled players are able to beat the hardest endgame content, then further being able to beat it with less people gives a bigger challenge and keeps those skilled players playing.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

my FC is average sized. we run 4 Coil groups, the top 2 run really consistently, the other 2 not so much, they are mostly comprised of people with more irregular job schedules and/or family obligations. at best it's only possible to run for 2-3 hours once a week and sometimes even that gets interrupted, usually because 1 person has something come up.

so the group ends up either not running for an entire week or PUGing the last spot (or 2) in which they don't really grow/progress together and end up spending more time trying to find someone that can help clear. and that doesn't at all help in progression because you end up with someone who can clear T6 but have to teach them T7 from scratch or you end up with someone who can do T6 & 7 but have no interest in sticking around for the group to learn T8. people with such tight schedules don't have time to put PF up over and over again.

without a strict lockout you can fill those vacant spots with people from the first 2 groups.

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I'm sorry to be so direct, and I hope I don't come off as elitist (btw, totally agree with your definition of elitist up there), but people who only have 2-3 hours to raid per week should not really hope to clear coil as quickly as those that can put in more hours. O I mean if you think about it, 2-3 hours per week is really really little, its not even enough to do your daily roulette and beast tribe dailies every day in a week, and you still have ST, pvp on top of that. Raiding is as much about commitment as it is skill. If some people only have limited time, then there's lots of other stuff in the game to occupy them (which are catered for players who play less or at more irregular hours). I really don't think an entire system (which by definition is designed for more hardcore players) should suddenly be changed to cater to these players.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

people who only have 2-3 hours to raid per week should not really hope to clear coil as quickly as those that can put in more hours.

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no one has that expectation. super world first groups clear within the first month, better groups clear within two months. we would like the option to clear within 6 before echo because a lot of us are skilled enough to do it.

at the least if they are going to do 2 patches between implementing a new tier. they can open them up during the middle patch.
2.4 - release 3rd Coil, full lockout
2.5 - relax lockout, free entry, loot lockout only + savage with full lockout
2.6 - echo, new raid

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Originally Posted by skaterger

Raiding is as much about commitment as it is skill.

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this sounds wrong? The Novus quest is about commitment. Farming Allied Seals to Unweather an entire job is about commitment. so what in this game can be about skill?

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Originally Posted by skaterger

O I mean if you think about it, 2-3 hours per week is really really little, its not even enough to do your daily roulette and beast tribe dailies every day in a week

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that's not how much time we have to play the game, that's just how often all 8 people can overlap a large block of time to practice together. most of them can get in an hour here and there to do their roulette, cap Soldiery and do ST, even do Hunts for 2-3 hours but when A, B, C and D can hunt for 2 hours is not when X, Y and Z can hunt for 3 hours.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

no one has that expectation. super world first groups clear within the first month, better groups clear within two months. we would like the option to clear within 6 before echo because a lot of us are skilled enough to do it.

at the least if they are going to do 2 patches between implementing a new tier. they can open them up during the middle patch.
2.4 - release 3rd Coil, full lockout
2.5 - relax lockout, free entry, loot lockout only + savage with full lockout
2.6 - echo, new raid

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I would agree with you if more people, say 50% of the players have cleared coil at this time. But only 2000 players, or less than 1% has done so (which includes those that bought their runs), which if you ask me, is working as intended. There are still many players running coil at this time, mostly hoping to get a clear before the next patch hits. To allow a situation of mass selling of runs would not only kill their motivation to progress, but also be unfair to them to the work they put in over the past 3 months, and invalidate everything that they achieved, and screwing with the natural progression cycle. Incidentally, it is also during this time (the catch up patch), that most clear groups become geared enough to do a carry.

I would also like to add that the 6 month window is sufficient for skilled players to clear coil, even if the group has only 2-3 hours to raid per week. My fc has a group like that, they have been raiding 1 day per week since 2.2 hit, and are working on t9 last phase atm and will clear it before 2.4 hits.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

this sounds wrong? The Novus quest is about commitment. Farming Allied Seals to Unweather an entire job is about commitment. so what in this game can be about skill?

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We will have to agree to disagree about this then. One of the reasons why less than 0.1% of the players completed naxx in vanilla wow was that it was a 40 man raid, and back then there were major inconveniences such as the lack of a looking for group tool and the need to walk to the dungeon instead of the game teleporting you there instantly. This was the reason they eventually scrapped the idea of 40 mans and made it 10/25. Now I'm not advocating we go back to the days of 40 man raids, but if you buy into the premise that coil is the hardest group content in the game, then every member should give a minimum and equal investment into the success of a group in terms of time spent.

I would argue that novus, hunts are much more casual and require much less commitment than raiding. Why? Because even though it might take a long time, you can do it at your own leisure, and which is actually who this content was designed for in the first place, people who don't have time to commit to raiding. Ask yourself why the words "commited" and "dedicated" always come up in raid recruitment posts and you have your answer. Regarding your last question about skill, raiding requires both commitment and skill, which I mentioned in my earlier post. You can't have only one or the other, which gives it it's "hardcore" tag.

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Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

I can't wait, I need some more gil for my high end furniture and minion collection.

This is a stupid concern the Dev team has. SCoB sales have been happening for at least a month or longer. There were two people who bought T9 kills back towards the end of June on Cactaur.

With raid ilvl gear available from hunts, lockouts on coil serve 0% atm.

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Why stop at just the current patch stuff? Payed runs started all the way back in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

This sounds wrong? The Novus quest is about commitment. Farming Allied Seals to Unweather an entire job is about commitment. so what in this game can be about skill?

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You have one big flaw here. Joanna is referring raiding takes commitment. Novus questline isn't raiding, so is The Hunt. Novus is pretty much a solo content while The Hunt is pretty much a "party based" content where you just form any random party either at the map where the mark spawned or with a dedicated hunting LS.

Raiding is more focused on a dedicated, static party where everyone is expected to be on the same level of commitment, focus and skill level.

It can be pretty much of a chore, I can understand that feeling because I have been with 3 different teams since 2.0 and all three have disbanded thus far, for different reasons.

If you want progression, you need to be in an effective team. If a team have their player's schedule clashing all the time, it is not effective. If it is one or two members, the leader might have to take the hard route to consider replacing them. There is no point for 8 persons if very different schedule and needs to band together just simply because you are from the same FC or something. Spend time in finding a suitable group instead of wasting time on weeks of ineffective raid schedule and ended up, learning and progressing on nothing.

I've been through schedule issues and reforming of teams myself to say the above. Effective and good groups know what they need to do - replace and reform if they need to. Sticking around just because it is a "FC thing" or "we are friends" but having schedule issues doesn't bring you anywhere.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

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After reading a lot of you posts, you seem to want this game to be more business than fun. And you should really go Play FFXI with your attitude.

You say make other friends in one post then, say How people like me and others with odd time schedules shouldn't be catered too.

It's people like you who make up these absurd percentages such as the "only 1 % has beaten coil yada yada" You need to stop making comments so some fun can be put into this game.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

It's people like you who make up these absurd percentages such as the "only 1 % has beaten coil yada yada" You need to stop making comments so some fun can be put into this game.

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Actually.... SE made the comment about only 2,000 people clearing Second Coil. And that is actually less than 1% if we have more than 200k players.

And even from SE that number means nothing.

If it were unrestricted and that number was still low then that would be awesome, cause then you know it's hard. And that's something they should be proud of. That's like being surprised the faucet doesn't let all the water out at once.

Hope they don't apply a loot lock out like CT/ST on Coil, it would suck not being able to roll on gear for a second Job when nobody else wants/need that piece of gear and still have the chance to roll for my main.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

And even from SE that number means nothing.

If it were unrestricted and that number was still low then that would be awesome, cause then you know it's hard. And that's something they should be proud of. That's like being surprised the faucet doesn't let all the water out at once.

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I doubt they are surprised people haven't cleared. It's more than likely their intention that only a small percentage has completed it.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

And even from SE that number means nothing.

If it were unrestricted and that number was still low then that would be awesome, cause then you know it's hard. And that's something they should be proud of. That's like being surprised the faucet doesn't let all the water out at once.

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It most certainly means something. It means 2,000~ out of however many subs there are, have cleared it. And as someone else said, it's likely intentional for it to be that low. If it was unlocked as you say, they would have to make it even more punishing to keep the ratio the same.

The point is, the content is not for everyone. That's part of why there are lockouts. And before you say that some people don't have good schedules or don't have much time to play, then that just means they need to either put more effort into finding a good group, or the content really isn't for them. Threads like this make me feel people want to change the content in question away from what it's intended to be. If it's not for you, it's not for you.

And that's really what it's about. With the ideas i've seen, it will allow people to bypass that "wall" prematurely. This type of content isn't JUST about the difficulty of the content on its own. People say it's anti social, but it's not.

Content of this type is going to be gated. And skill requirement is not going to be the only gate. Because if it was, we would have the issue of people clearing when they are not skilled enough, because the others in the group are over skilled. OR, it would be tuned so tightly, only those overskilled would be skilled enough to do it with a full group.

Who gives a damn if people are buying content clears? I would never. I've got a wonderful FC, that accepts applications for anyone to join btw, but how does this effect anyone in a negative way? Did the game become less fun when people were selling Titan clears? No, it didn't. I attempt coil in pugs via PF, I would gladly join a FC static group, but I can't do a 'static' because of random work schedules (3-4 twelve hour shifts on varying days). I'm certain there are more people like me than there are people that would pay Gil for clears. Buying content wins doesn't hurt anyone.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

After reading a lot of you posts, you seem to want this game to be more business than fun. And you should really go Play FFXI with your attitude.

You say make other friends in one post then, say How people like me and others with odd time schedules shouldn't be catered too.

It's people like you who make up these absurd percentages such as the "only 1 % has beaten coil yada yada" You need to stop making comments so some fun can be put into this game.

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If you can't handle negative feedback and feel the need to silence every person who does not agree with you, maybe you stop whining like a 3 year old girl and stop posting on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I doubt they are surprised people haven't cleared. It's more than likely their intention that only a small percentage has completed it.

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I remember yoshi p mentioning in one interview that they were surprised that BG had downed T9 so quickly. They clearly meant for the content to last a long time.

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Originally Posted by ispano

The point is, the content is not for everyone.

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This right here hits the jackpot. Selling runs is not the crux of the problem, the real problem is that everyone feels the need to somehow complete the content before the new one is released. If people can change this mentality, eventually selling of runs will go away because there is no demand for it.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Did the game become less fun when people were selling Titan clears?

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Yes and no. If titan clear selling was rampant during 2.0 where it was a necessity to get your zenith weapon, and everyone was running around with it, then would be no prestige to the weapon, it loses its meaning because you know that person could easily be #12421 gil buyer to have bought his win. The reason why titan hm/ex up to today is still considered one of the hardest fights in the game is because most people who got their relic weapon back in 2.0/2.1 did it legitimately.

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Originally Posted by waldo

I'm certain there are more people like me than there are people that would pay Gil for clears.

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I would like to see some evidence of this. One group on my server has been consistently selling wins since early June.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...k-Coil-Carries

Selling runs is more prominent than you think, though I have no idea why people would pay 30 million for a weapon that would be obsolete in 1 month. The only reason why you don't see it as often is because of the lockout.

I can take negative post as long as they are constructive. If it negative to be negative, like you have been doing, then you don't need to post period.

I like hard interesting fights, like dark souls. It's awesome to beat bosses that you beat barely and get great items for a reward. To say I can't do it and it shouldn't be available to people like me is incredible.

That's not how games are supposed to be designed. Especially one that says it caters to everyone and is casual.

Dark souls is not a hard game, just because you are comfortable with the low bar in that game doesn't mean every difficult thing in every game is for you. People say it's good design but really it's just moderately challenging with a veneer of difficulty that assures players they don't have average ability, then they consequently have a tantrum when they play something that is actually hard. Catering to everyone means it has something for everyone, not everything for anyone.