New SB limitations - facts

The end result is that people can't benefit from super fast sb gains by switching to lowbie sb gear in high level dungeons.

Which was a much more serious problem than that which the OP is even close to being comparative.

Now you must wear the gear the dungeon was designed for, to get SB. What a novel concept!

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

0.3% increase per "Spiritbond Gain +1"

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With what level gear, on what level mobs, HQ or NQ, and how many melds? Spiritbond Gain isn't a fixed percentage.

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Originally Posted by Manuka

I think I just discovered something new. The increased rates that I listed earlier get reduced dramatically if you form a party :/

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It was like this before, chocobo added about 40% more kills required to fully SB an item vs solo.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

With what level gear, on what level mobs, HQ or NQ, and how many melds? Spiritbond Gain isn't a fixed percentage.

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I've not done a bunch of testing regarding the impact of NQ, HQ and melded gear. However, last week I did a full set of i55 mining left side (except tool) and all pieces were NQ except pants HQ. I added 3 tier 1 materia to all of the NQ pieces and 2 tier 1 materia to the HQ piece. Potion was not used (didn't grind the full 100% all at one time) but FC action was up and I had SB +4 on rings. The result was everything took exactly the same amount of time to fully SB.

It appears as if the difference between HQ and NQ is a nearly identical rate to having materia 1 materia attached. Not sure if what tier materia used makes a difference since I was just using the cheapest stuff I had since I knew I was going to convert as soon as it hit 100%.

HQ, and each materia, adds 20% to spiritbond rate. +Spiritbond Gain does not give a percentage, but a fixed number. If you're getting 25 "SB Points," then that +3 is huge, if you're getting 200, not so much. Meteor rings were always great for bonding ilvl55 gear on water sprites, but not for bonding lowbie gear. I haven't tested them since the patch, so I can't say how they work now.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

The end result is that people can't benefit from super fast sb gains by switching to lowbie sb gear in high level dungeons.

Which was a much more serious problem than that which the OP is even close to being comparative.

Now you must wear the gear the dungeon was designed for, to get SB. What a novel concept!

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Thats exactly why they have patched it now, but:
I fear we will have many more forced speedruns and unpolite players on lower dungeons while abuse of kickvote increases...

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Thats exactly why they have patched it now, but:
I fear we will have many more forced speedruns and unpolite players on lower dungeons while abuse of kickvote increases...

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not necesseraly, since they need to be geared with the gears adapted to said dungeon that puts them at the same level as others, so I doubt very much that speedruns will happen that much, which would be the case if they had overgeared stuff in a lower dungeon, me think there will be far less abuse of anything if they want to SB their crafted stuff....but maybe I see it wrong.

Mei

So what was the change related to i70 crafted gear exactly?

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Originally Posted by Coatl

So what was the change related to i70 crafted gear exactly?

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i70 gear no longer has a 100% chance of yielding IV materia. i90 doesn't either.

All these numbers you guys are getting for rate of binding, are these with or without the spiritbind potion and/or the FC action?

So what is the concluded "ideal" range?
Someone mentioned that items within 10 levels of the area bonded at some absurd rate...

So lets say we use a crafted I70 as an example.
Would that be ideal to bind in an I60 dungeon (Pharos, Haukke Hard, Copperbell Hard), an I70 Dungeon (Lost City, Bray Hard, Hali Hard), or an I80 Dungeon (Hullbreaker, TTD Hard, Vigil Hard)?

ilvl90 is primed around expert dungeons, so I would say the old expert dungeons or below

So [Area = Item Level - 10]
Guess and easy way tot est would be to take some crafted I48/49, and go kill lvl 38-40 mobs, see how many it takes to get 10% or so... Ill try that later.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

All these numbers you guys are getting for rate of binding, are these with or without the spiritbind potion and/or the FC action?

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All the numbers I posted earlier were with NQ vendor gear with no HQ's, SB potions or the FC buff active.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

So what is the concluded "ideal" range?
Someone mentioned that items within 10 levels of the area bonded at some absurd rate...

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I think you got me reversed, the absurd rates I posted yesterday were items 10 +/- 4 ilevels below the mobs level. In your example bonding an item that's 10 levels higher than the mob will give a rate of about 5% every 10 killed (NQ and no materia or buffs). I guess the best way to think of it is rather than the steady incline the old SB rate was the new one is more like a bell curve that peaks at 10 levels below the mob.

Also dungeons seem to behave differently than the overworld in that there are set caps for ilvl ranges ie. ST can only bind i90 while the old HM's can only bind i70 I believe.

Could someone check SB rates of i55 gathering and crafting gear on 1 star mats and items?

Edit: 1 Star crafts seem to spiritbond at roughly .2%.

I did Castrum with crafting accessories - all HQ and all with a random T1 or TII materia (mostly TII which seem to be cheaper than TI most of the time).
i49 neck - net gain +85%
i45 ear - net gain +84%
i46 wrist - +112%
i47 ring - +104%

This is much faster SB than before. Looks like those that simply want to SB will be able to do it much faster now. Those that combined SB with other goals (tomes, dailies, etc). not so much.

BTW, got 5 materia, including 2 TIV for the run. Normally with these accessories, i get about 10% TIV conversion rate.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

I did Castrum with crafting accessories - all HQ and all with a random T1 or TII materia (mostly TII which seem to be cheaper than TI most of the time).
i49 neck - net gain +85%
i45 ear - net gain +84%
i46 wrist - +112%
i47 ring - +104%

This is much faster SB than before. Looks like those that simply want to SB will be able to do it much faster now. Those that combined SB with other goals (tomes, dailies, etc). not so much.

BTW, got 5 materia, including 2 TIV for the run. Normally with these accessories, i get about 10% TIV conversion rate.

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Basically the same conclusion that I have come to after a full day with this patch. I'm SBing faster than ever now and once people start catching on to this, materia prices will probably start plummeting. I've SBed 2 sets full sets of equips (left and right side) after just 3 runs in castrum. So for about an hour and a half's worth of work I'm getting about 22 materias of which some are TIVs.

Alright I finally completed the overworld testing, here's the data using 9 lvl37 mobs;

i17 Hard Leather Shep's Belt ~ 1% (no bond)
i18 Brass Ring of Craft ~ 3%
i19 Cotton Coif of Gat ~ 7%
i20 Cotton Workgloves ~ 11%
i21 Cotton Doublet Vest of Craft ~ 15%
i22 Goatskin Espadrilles ~ 18%
i23 Velveteen Bandana ~ 21%
i24 Iniate's Gown ~ 22%
i25 Silver Magnifiers ~ 24%
i26 Velveteen Coatee of Craft ~ 26%
i27Velveteen Wedge Cap of Craft ~ 28%
i28 Velveteen Half Apron ~ 26%
i29 Silver Chocker ~ 24%
i30 Velveteen Gown ~ 16%
i31 Steel Goggles ~ 15%
i32 Velveteen Doublet V of C ~ 14%
i33 Linen Halfgloves ~ 12%
i34 Myhtril Magnifiers ~ 11%
i35 Wolf Earrings ~ 10%
i36 Mythril Gorget ~ 9%
***i37 Mythril Ring ~ 8%
i38 Linen Shortgloves ~ 8%
i39 Linen Bliaud ~ 8%
i40 Woolen Sash ~ 7%
i41 Woolen Dress Gloves ~ 7%
i42 Boarskin Toolbelt ~ 7%
i43 Boarskin Survival ~ 7%
i44 Cobalt Preserves ~ 6%
i45 Felt Coif of Gat~ 4%
i46 Electrum Wrists of Craft ~ 4%
i47 Electrum Ring of Craft ~ 3%
i48 Tourmaline Chocker ~ 3%
i49 Electrum Choker ~ 3%

This section was tested on the level 20 mobs in East Shroud to gauge the upper threshold before SB stops.
~13 Velveteen Doub 14% ~ 3%
~14 Linen Halfgloves 25% ~ 3%
~15 Myhtril Mags 11% ~ 3%
~16 Wolf Earrings 49% ~ 3%
~17 Mythril Gorget 18% ~ 3%
~18 Mythril Ring 42% ~ 3%
~19 Linen Bliaud ~ 1% (no bond)

So from all this data the best lvl gear range's to SB are 15-8 levels below the mob your killing as there are sharp losses at the 16 and 7 level mark. Spiritbonding completely stops at 20 levels below the mob and 19 levels above the mob. Gear that is 10 levels or higher than the mob seems to have a capped SB rate that continues until the cutoff. I don't know how much of this relates to dungeon bonding but for Ultimatecalibur I do intend to see what the bond rate for i55 gear is in the overworld later, my inventory is full of crap I need to bond atm lol.

Great info Manuka. Thanks so much for testing and sharing. This will be particularly interesting for my friends who prefer to SB i37 gear for tier II materia. May I have permission to copy and paste this information onto my FC website to share with them? Will credit you for it. :D

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Savage might 4 rose 200k (500k to 700k) here in famfrit

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It went up 150K on Leviathan (~550K) and it may possibly go up even further.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Great info Manuka. Thanks so much for testing and sharing. This will be particularly interesting for my friends who prefer to SB i37 gear for tier II materia. May I have permission to copy and paste this information onto my FC website to share with them? Will credit you for it. :D

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Share away! :) If enough people know the prices on some of this materia might actually go down a bit lol

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

It went up 150K on Leviathan (~550K) and it may possibly go up even further.

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No idea whats going on with your guys servers but on Tonberry they're 370k which is maybe a 50k increase from last time I cared to check pre patch.

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Originally Posted by Manuka

Alright I finally completed the overworld testing, here's the data using 9 lvl37 mobs;

i17 Hard Leather Shep's Belt ~ 1% (no bond)
i18 Brass Ring of Craft ~ 3%
i19 Cotton Coif of Gat ~ 7%
blah blah blah.....

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Good info Manuka. But I would suggest to test spiritbonding gears in dungeons too. I found that we can sb 28% ilvl70 wpn with 2 slots melded (I tried Alkalurops HQ), 65% -66% ilvl55 gears with 1 slot melded in 2 CM full run. Tested ilvl46-ilvl49 in CM, same result as Waeksyn. Gonna try sbing some ilvl70 with 2 slots melded in WP or AK....

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

No idea whats going on with your guys servers but on Tonberry they're 370k which is maybe a 50k increase from last time I cared to check pre patch.

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It's up like 20k on Balmung from right before the patch. Stat and Elemental materias are up ~7k each, and the others have stayed within plus or minus 20k.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

I did Castrum with crafting accessories - all HQ and all with a random T1 or TII materia (mostly TII which seem to be cheaper than TI most of the time).
i49 neck - net gain +85%
i45 ear - net gain +84%
i46 wrist - +112%
i47 ring - +104%

This is much faster SB than before. Looks like those that simply want to SB will be able to do it much faster now. Those that combined SB with other goals (tomes, dailies, etc). not so much.

BTW, got 5 materia, including 2 TIV for the run. Normally with these accessories, i get about 10% TIV conversion rate.

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Hi Waeksyn,

This is fantastic news! :) Wow, 1 dungeon run, and the Spiritbonding is SO much faster. Can't wait to do a few sets this weekend. :)

Just a question but if I were to run Coil T3 for SBing, what gear would you suggest I bring in? i70 or i90?

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Originally Posted by LydallMomoda

Good info Manuka. But I would suggest to test spiritbonding gears in dungeons too. I found that we can sb 28% ilvl70 wpn with 2 slots melded (I tried Alkalurops HQ), 65% -66% ilvl55 gears with 1 slot melded in 2 CM full run. Tested ilvl46-ilvl49 in CM, same result as Waeksyn. Gonna try sbing some ilvl70 with 2 slots melded in WP or AK....

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That's next on my agenda, just needa get some wind shards to craft since desynth killed all of mine lol My plan is basically to grab some FC mates, enter the instance and have them all drop but me (so as to not incur the party penalty on SB) and kill nine baddies with NQ accessories of varying levels then check the rates. This way I hope to find both the SB cutoff's (and if they're the same as the Overworld) for the dungeon as well as see if there's any correlation with the Overworld SB rates. If there is one we can determine from it the level of the mobs and plan SB accordingly.

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Just a question but if I were to run Coil T3 for SBing, what gear would you suggest I bring in? i70 or i90?

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From earlier posts it seems the ilvl of the gear dropped in the dungeon corresponds to the monster level range. So in this case First Coil would be i90 and will stop SB'in at exactly i70, so basically only i90 crafted gear.

Wanderer's Palace. 2 i45 and 2 i47 pieces. All HQ, with 1 materia each. Using single Meteor survivor ring.

All mobs up to second boss, the i47 pieces were 12%, the i45s didn't bind at all. So my bet is once you hit a 10+ gap is where the complete stop is. Assuming WP is considered 55 that is.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Wanderer's Palace. 2 i45 and 2 i47 pieces. All HQ, with 1 materia each. Using single Meteor survivor ring.

All mobs up to second boss, the i47 pieces were 12%, the i45s didn't bind at all. So my bet is once you hit a 10+ gap is where the complete stop is. Assuming WP is considered 55 that is.

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Using this data, I think SE may have set mob's effective levels inside dungeons to be the iLvl of the dropped loot +10; thus ensuring that the best gear to bind will be gear of the iLvl dropped there. Our data has shown that the best sb is 10 levels over the item level, and it stops completely at 20 over. Therefore we can extrapolate that WP mobs are actually level 65. This would make i55 the best to SB, and i45 would not bond, as you have shown.

Therefore, unlike the list previously placed in this thread, (but we will need more data to prove it) I contend that the best places to SB gear will likely be:

i55: WP, CM, Praet
i70: current hard mode dungeons
i90: current expert mode dungeons

I would like to see data if anyone can produce it on taking i70 gear into Labyrinth of the ancients (which drops i80) and i90 gear into Syrcus. (which drops i100)
If those bond in the respective locations, then SE has done wonky stuff with the effective mob levels in each dungeon and we will need to get more meticulous data in each.

To respond to myself, did a frantic attempt at ST just now before maintenance (lol) just to see what my SB gains would be.
From start to just before Amon (:() my i90 gear gained about 12% bond, and my i100 gear gained 6%, half as much. I wish I had thought to find some i80/85/95 gear to bring to better pinpoint the mobs' effective levels, but it still disproves my theory in that these creatures were obviously NOT level 110, and are likely to be level 100? (to account for i90 leveling faster there)
Frankly, we still just need more data on people bringing multiple iLvls of gear simultaneously into each dungeon/raid (for example a piece each of 50,55,60,70 and 80 all on the same character) to determine what effective level the mobs are and therefore what iLvl gear would spiritbond best there.

As for gathering, here is what I noticed:

gloves level 45, gathering fish lvl 48 = less than 1% per fish (two fish for 1%)
This is really low. :(

(I fished up 40 fish, got about 20%)

body piece level 43, gathering fish lvl 48 = about 1% per fish

(The same 40 fish, got about 40%)

* I was fishing in Mor Dhona.

Has anyone tried ilvl 45-49 acc with AV or DD first room ?

Noob reporting for duty. My favorite spiritbonding gear are accesories I super easily craft with my dear goldsmith... Being the 48-49 turquoise-amber-zircon-rubellite-spinel accesories and all that...

In Urth's Gift, with chocobo + HQ + spiritbond potion + meld + free company rank 1 power it took me around 20-25 min to spiritbond these accesories.

I knew it wouldn't work in my dear EX roulette, so didn't try.... I tried in SPEEDFLOX and..... THEY DON'T spiritbond.

In Wanderer's Palace I had them all 37% before starting. And ended with 67% and 54%. For some reason, Necklace and Bracelet didn't spiritbond at the same time. (My bet is that bracelet and necklace are ilevel 48, while earrings and rings are 49.)

Interesting thing comes here. Ilevel 49 accesories seemed to spiritbond faster in Wanderer's Palace than ilevel 48 ones... MAybe does this mean that Wanderer's Palace ilevel of the monsters is something around 65?. Probably perfect place for the i55 stuff, but still needing to find a place with i59-60 monsters for these accesories.

I'm going to do another run in WP with amber accesories starting from 0% and post results soon.

Seems like the window of SB opportunity is too damn narrow. :/ I'll be testing today as well.

I did T4 with gryphon neck, got 29% triple meld sb pot fc buff

Arg, disappointed with this but... I think it requires 3 runs of Wanderer's Palace for fully meld it. (At least Bracelet and Necklace)

I couldn't finish the entire run, because had to leave before first boss, a question of honor... But...

<---- Wanderer's Palace, trash before 1st boss results ---->
(Spiritbond potion, HQ + 1 meld, FC buff tier 1)

Amber Necklace: 9%
Amber Earrings: 14%
Amber Bracalet: 9%
Amber Ring: 14%
Amber Ring: 14%

If someone finds a better dungeon to run with the 48-49 accesories, please tell. I'm not seeing good ways of quick-SB for materia III... Before this damn patch I could SB in 2 runs of Duty Expert, having all benefits of roulette expert, + 6000 gil per run because of adventurer in need...

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

If someone finds a better dungeon to run with the 48-49 accesories, please tell.

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It seems from a few posts right in this thread that Castrum is the way to go.

T4 is still a decent choice to SB i70 gear. Someone also asked about t3 for i70 and I thing that based on the other data we are seeing here that i70 would be a bit high. Might see if I have people for a trial run tonight. My assumption is going to be that i70 will be outside optimal but i55 might work which still makes t3 a less viable options than some of the other places mentioned (not to mention you would have to balance total ilvl with several i90+ to even get in.)

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Originally Posted by Bixby

It seems from a few posts right in this thread that Castrum is the way to go.

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Thank you, always helping since I first came to this forum... :3... Anyway, confirmed, Wanderer's Palace is not worth unless you have interest in spiritbonding + also take the parts yourself (Price of the parts is ridiculous in Zodiark, 100k the cheaper-non incluying bardiche's head [20k] )

For ilvl 55, the armor tends to be much cheaper than the weapons due to speedrunners skipping the chests with parts in WP. Though, if more folks go there to SB they may grab the chests while killing all mobs and drive the price down.

Though, you should keep your weapon as your endgame weapon anyway, since it's the most important piece of equipment and can drastically increase kill speed.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

For ilvl 55, the armor tends to be much cheaper than the weapons due to speedrunners skipping the chests with parts in WP. Though, if more folks go there to SB they may grab the chests while killing all mobs and drive the price down.

Though, you should keep your weapon as your endgame weapon anyway, since it's the most important piece of equipment and can drastically increase kill speed.

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^ Spiritbonding your weapon is never a good idea. I remember I tried it with a few i49 bows pre-patch in Urth's Gift; kill speed was cut by at least a third to half. Nowhere near worth it for a single slot.