Hunt changes - for the better of us all

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Originally Posted by Clawtooth

Hopefully the breaks in the A train will make people actually do things in the Duty Finder again ... hopefully ...

DF has been slower than usual since 2.3 hit ... so hopefully this will help things a little *fingers crossed*.

For the people annoyed at a longer grind ... well all I can say is that patience is a virtue ... you don't need to be full 110 within a week

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If we were 110 in a week we wouldn't care about the nerf, because we wouldn't need seals.
I've been doing DF and dungeons, thats why I didn't already get all the seals I need, and now people like me are being nerfed and those who just did Hunts were not.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I want the title that requires me to kill 300 Bs. now it seems impossible unless I want to waste my time killing them for 0 seal.

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If the B only counts if you have the mark bill for it (which would be pants on head retarded), getting the achievement seems like the exact opposite of impossible considering they respawn every 5 seconds.

I just don\\'t understand what the problem was. I am a casual player and I had absolutely no problem by killing B, A and S hunts. Join a party, search for hunt, wait a few minutes and then pull. It felt like hunting! This concept worked out most of the time.
Now B hunts are almost useless - everyone will only do A and S hunts, because they are rewarding - more than the 50 seals/week.

This is just my opinion but I will also accept the new way the hunts are.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

So basically the poor now has a chance to get some seals at their own pace (and not being rewarded mythology and soldiery from B ranks - just seals). And the rich can mercilessly camp all the A's and S's rank, taking control, getting rewarded with gazilion myth and soldiery?

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But hunts were the very definition of "getting things at your own pace"

Log in, hop in a group, get seals.

What you want, it to have things handled to you and NOT play with people in a mmorpg. Stop being lazy, get in a group and do hunts. You are playing a mmorpg.

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Originally Posted by nibelunc

I just don\\'t understand what the problem was. I am a casual player and I had absolutely no problem by killing B, A and S hunts. Join a party, search for hunt, wait a few minutes and then pull. It felt like hunting! This concept worked out most of the time.
Now B hunts are almost useless - everyone will only do A and S hunts, because they are rewarding - more than the 50 seals/week.

This is just my opinion but I will also accept the new way the hunts are.

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I think the problem was there was a small amount of people, vocal minority that wanted to solo hunts and didn't want to join a party or linkshell. So we got the changes we have today. Personally I don't see the point of hard core soloers, multiplayer and playing with a party and group of people should be the point of a MMO since it isn't a solo game.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I think the problem was there was a small amount of people, vocal minority that wanted to solo hunts and didn't want to join a party or linkshell. So we got the changes we have today.

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Well, considering that was INTENDED for Bs, I don't really see how they were wrong to think that way.

I approve of these changes. I did the hunts to 110 a set of gear then dropped the linkshell and stopped doing hunts. The damage done by the hunts to the PF and DF times was horrible.

Now i can just throw mark bills into my daily routine, to gear an alt that i dont really care about, without dealing with dreadful hunts.

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Originally Posted by nibelunc

I just don\\'t understand what the problem was. I am a casual player and I had absolutely no problem by killing B, A and S hunts. Join a party, search for hunt, wait a few minutes and then pull. It felt like hunting! This concept worked out most of the time.
Now B hunts are almost useless - everyone will only do A and S hunts, because they are rewarding - more than the 50 seals/week.

This is just my opinion but I will also accept the new way the hunts are.

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some people are too slow or have a slow PC.

or just too lazy to hunt. so they were complaining on the forums instead.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

But hunts were the very definition of "getting things at your own pace." Log in, hop in a group, get seals. What you want, it to have things handled to you and NOT play with people in a mmorpg.

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Uhm, hello?? Getting things at your own pace is now the right definition for the B rank, it is a great change for those who rather solo and do things with a friend or two. Except that if I read correctly, it only rewards seals if the B mob is in your daily hunt list, and it does not give you mythology and soldiery tome? As for the rank A and S, it does not receive any changes, so these will be hunt zerg by everyone else, and still gives you the most rewards for your buck?

Alliance hunt and zerg is the definition of "to have things handed to you" by simply following the pack, hope and pray that the other group have the decency to wait for your alliance, which in most cases, not going to happen. And the name calling and blacklisting can begin again...

On my server Bs weren't ignored, now that As are the only option for a continued hunt they will be killed early all the time. There will be too many people going to each A because they will be more rare and people will pull sooner since waiting for everyone will result in getting less then full credit.
More people on less monsters = early pulls/rage or not getting full credit. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me

From what I've read, they completely killed casual hunting as a group activity while simultainously making the community at large zerg rush those A's even harder than ever before. This doesn't seem like a change for the better at all. In fact, all it seems like it will do, is inspire more vitriol and venom than ever before as people fight over getting those A's and S's, while B rank hunting just became, well, not very profitable at all compared to what it once was. This seems like a poorly thought out change at best, and a thinly veiled attempt to slow down the acquisition of gear by throttling the seal/myth flow. How anyone can be happy with this, I'll never know. Maybe people just enjoy grind taking even longer than it normally does.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

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I guess it depends on your server, unfortunately on mine it got really stupid. There was never a reason to zerg rank b's anyways. Malicious behavior abounded with hunt groups resetting B's on solo or duos atleast. Name calling blisting demanding resets etc, over what? 5 seals they felt entitled to? Keeping others from completing weekly marks? I have finished gearing up my Drg and have geared my Pld so far. Sitting on 200+ AS mostly from solo/duo/trio rank b's. Not going to affect me much as I am in no hurry, never been.

I love how people are complaining that they can't get 5 seals for killing a B anymore. Did you miss the part where the daily marks are now worth either 4 or 10 a pop? Dailies are now worth about the same or twice as much as B's were before.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Uhm, hello?? Getting things at your own pace is now the right definition for the B rank, it is a great change for those who rather solo and do things with a friend or two.

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You are playing a mmorpg, you are not supposed to solo things.

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Except that if I read correctly, it only rewards seals if the B mob is in your daily hunt list, and it does not give you mythology and soldiery tome? As for the rank A and S, it does not receive any changes, so these will be hunt zerg by everyone else, and still gives you the most rewards for your buck?

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Yes. B hunts are literally handled to you, no repop, no scounting, no competition. Your warp in a zone and they are there now. And you also want myth from them? That's not how it works.

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Alliance hunt and zerg is the definition of "to have things handled to you" by simply following the pack and pray hope other group have the decency to wait for your alliance, which in most cases, not going to happen. And the name calling and blacklisting can begin again...

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And yet, it seems you and many people couldn't get even an A, hmm..

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

On my server Bs weren't ignored, now that As are the only option for a continued hunt they will be killed early all the time. There will be too many people going to each A because they will be more rare and people will pull sooner since waiting for everyone will result in getting less then full credit.
More people on less monsters = early pulls/rage or not getting full credit. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me

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yeah, these changes were made to please the people who don't hunt or can't hunt, instead of helping people who enjoyed the content.

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Originally Posted by VicViperion

From what I've read, they completely killed casual hunting as a group activity while simultainously making the community at large zerg rush those A's even harder than ever before. This doesn't seem like a change for the better at all.

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I disagree, the reason the zerg was so bad is because the solo path was not a real option to get the shineys. I'll bet less people will do grouped hunting because of the new viable solo path.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

yeah, these changes were made to please the people who don't hunt or can't hunt, instead of helping people who enjoyed the content.

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Most people I know that participated in the zerg fests didn't enjoy it. They did it because the reward to effort ratio was horribly imbalanced. ie it was leaps and bounds easier than anything else.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

I love how people are complaining that they can't get 5 seals for killing a B anymore. Did you miss the part where the daily marks are now worth either 4 or 10 a pop? Dailies are now worth about the same or twice as much as B's were before.

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I think you missed the part where someone who had a few spare hours to grind out running around with friends could make far, far more than the mere pittance of 4 to 10 marks on something locked behind a daily restriction wall.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Most people I know that participated in the zerg fests didn't enjoy it. They did it because the reward to effort ratio was horribly imbalanced. ie it was leaps and bounds easier than anything else.

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I agree with this, as i actually hate hunts, but i do them because the rewards are just far to great to ignore.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

There will be too many people going to each A because they will be more rare and people will pull sooner since waiting for everyone will result in getting less then full credit. More people on less monsters = early pulls/rage or not getting full credit. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me

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Yeah the developer does not seem to get the real problem here. It's great that the B rank now is the perfect solution for casual and solo players to do things at their own pace and leisure - a most welcomed change - except that these B marks should also reward mytho and soldiery tome just like before since you cannot spam the B's anymore.

The A and S rank is the big problem, it was zerged to oblivion before and now, it will be even worse since this is the only options to get the most seals per kill.... and on top of that, it gives you boatload of tomes, rendering duty finder, once again, useless. No one in their right mind will do duty finder once the A train starts, and now you have to deal with at least 24 people x 2 on alliance - its bad enough to wait for your entire alliance to arrive - now you have to worry the other group with 8 or 16 people will pull first because they want to hop on the next A mark before some other group kills it.

Maybe for rank A's make it so that first party to find it starts the fight before anyone else can hit? S rank .. first alliance. I don't know how they can fix those. The problem will always be wether players can co-operate or not, wether the can be good sports or poor sports. What people don't understand, is no one has to wait for others to show up. It is a Hunt after all. No one should have to join a Hunt ls to enjoy and participate in the killing of A and S ranks. Part of the fault is with SE but part of it is also with some players.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

I agree with this, as i actually hate hunts, but i do them because the rewards are just far to great to ignore.

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I don't. I've done every daily and weekly and the occasional B I ran across. I feel the rewards are completely imbalanced for the effort involved, so I'm only doing it for the minions and not much else. I'll work for my gear, not zerg for it.

I love the changes, it'll make it easier for me to do hunts with my more casual friends. Also, the daily board has a use now; no longer pointless content.

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Originally Posted by VicViperion

I think you missed the part where someone who had a few spare hours to grind out running around with friends could make far, far more than the mere pittance of 4 to 10 marks on something locked behind a daily restriction wall.

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You can thanks people on the forum for that.

You won't get any myth or many seals from B like before, but hey, NOW YOU CAN SOLO IT AND THEY'LL ALWAYS BE THERE FOR YOU!

I feel sorry for ppl who still have to get their Novus.

I ready got my sand and minions + fc item. I still have some seals to spare that I'll use to buy seed for my FC.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

I disagree, the reason the zerg was so bad is because the solo path was not a real option to get the shineys. I'll bet less people will do grouped hunting because of the new viable solo path.

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But it isn't viable at all, really. Now it's limited. Now you're getting less than you once did, in multiple ways. They restricted it, and while yes, now you can do it solo, you're also getting nowhere near the worth and value of your time spent that you used to. All it took to hunt was a 5 second glance at Party Finder, and if you got tired or had little time, you hopped out at your leisure.

Coupled with the fact this change will make hunting for A's and S's even more vicious, and you've got a end result that really is going to satisfy a very, very small section of people trying to solo group content in a game based on playing with groups, while making everyone else quite discontent.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

You can thanks people on the forum for that.

You won't get any myth or many seals from B like before, but hey, NOW YOU CAN SOLO IT AND THEY'LL ALWAYS BE THERE FOR YOU!

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You could always solo Bs, they only raised their HP at once point. They never made them intended for parties.

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Originally Posted by VicViperion

I think you missed the part where someone who had a few spare hours to grind out running around with friends could make far, far more than the mere pittance of 4 to 10 marks on something locked behind a daily restriction wall.

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Yes, now to even come close to before you have to play every single day. Before you could spread out your hunting OR do it for hours on one day, depending on your schedule and availability. This is less casual than it was before the nerf. (which I point out to those saying this somehow helps casuals, which is baffling)

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Originally Posted by ispano

You could always solo Bs, they only raised their HP at once point. They never made them intended for parties.

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They had a truckload of HP.

Took much more time with some jobs, compared to before.

....How easy now is it going to be to party up with someone decently geared and just spam a single B-rank to power level?

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

I disagree, the reason the zerg was so bad is because the solo path was not a real option to get the shineys. I'll bet less people will do grouped hunting because of the new viable solo path.

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It's possible. I like the changes that make daily marks more rewarding but I don't like that they made Bs be up all the time but yet they're useless. If I find one out int the field I will have no reason to kill it unless it's the one monster I need once. There's just a lot more of nothing out there now and if it doesn't make people take a break from the hunting (parties and grinding) then I only see those people suffering from too many players and too little As

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

....How easy now is it going to be to party up with someone decently geared and just spam a single B-rank to power level?

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...you may wanna read the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by VicViperion

But it isn't viable at all, really. Now it's limited. Now you're getting less than you once did, in multiple ways. They restricted it, and while yes, now you can do it solo, you're also getting nowhere near the worth and value of your time spent that you used to. All it took to hunt was a 5 second glance at Party Finder, and if you got tired or had little time, you hopped out at your leisure.

Coupled with the fact this change will make hunting for A's and S's even more vicious, and you've got a end result that really is going to satisfy a very, very small section of people trying to solo group content in a game based on playing with groups, while making everyone else quite discontent.

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Lets say you grinded hunts with groups and did your hunt bills. How long would it take you to get enough sand and oil to upgrade a full set to 110?

How long does it take to buy all the i100 gear with soldiery?

Its still unbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

yeah, these changes were made to please the people who don't hunt or can't hunt, instead of helping people who enjoyed the content.

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most of the people enjoying the hunt (i don't talk of the one doing it because it was the best way to get almost everything) do like it mostly because it's instant gratification. no risk involved since done in zerg and maximum reward for the small fight.

people talking of the community or competition only do this for what? the reward... stop trying to make yourself look like a saint. they are like everybody that want them shinies...
what amazed me, it's the fact that a loooooot of the people that love hunt, are actually part of the people that hate the most the FATE, when all they do it's FATE under the form of the hunt.

other point, competition into a game like path of exil with it ladder it's good, but competition into FF14 are...sorry to say this non existant. competition means everybody have the same chance, start with the same setup... here is not the case, depending of the your connection time, the number of people into your ls hunt and such you will be the best. when actually it's your ls hunt that is the best not you! is not a competition it's simply a bragging rights feature!

by the way, this change don't solve anything, they don't listen to the people, they simply want to stick to them plan, raid > all... when it was possible to do stuff very nice with the hunting. but no, open world lover was there crying, we need open world stuff in a world over population and too small for the population per server. they have wanted nm back, when this feature was always the source of drama and cheat.

no use of the leves, faction leves or fate already present for make it more deep. nah, let's stick to the plan to make it an activity with instant gratification (by allowing zerg)

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

...you may wanna read the whole thing.

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I did. They have 5-sec spawns, don't attack unless provoked, require less contribution to get credit, and don't drop rewards.

Unless exp is considered a reward, it seems like it would be super easy to party with someone who can solo a B rank and just sponge up the exp without getting aggroed, and having that large source of exp respawn every 5 seconds.

If exp is considered a reward though, this all is moot.

As and Ss are still a issue.

And the daily bill rewards are still a joke. Considering they even have FATE camping on them. Now you can just do your B marks in peace, literaly farming 5 seals each 5 minutes, which is not good. A ranks are going to be completely killed by parties and forget about calling, this competition now means the end of all LS and the lucky party finding an A is going to be lucky, not to mention S ranks.

Why cant SE just make things good for once and just remove this whole hunt system till it works as it should, as intanced party claimed, party triggered, leve-esque content for premade parties or solo.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

I wouldn't blame hunt linkshells for these changes... most of the people on the forums who seemed to be complaining are minority of players who don't want to join hunting groups and would rather solo for their seals. If everyone had been as cooperative as the hunt groups, then I doubt SE would have made these changes. We're only getting this B-rank nerf because people opposed to hunt groups complained enough.

Fortunately, I got all the seals I needed, so I'm not affected by this. I feel bad though for people who thought this "fix" would keep them on even footing with people who've been in hunt groups. Most seals come from A ranks, but I'd say at least a quarter of all my seals have come from B ranks. If I were still hunting as hardcore as I was a couple weeks ago, I'd consider that a pretty substantial nerf.

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Most people who complained did NOT complain because they wanted to solo these mobs. They complained because people were consuming the content in a way obviously not intended by SE. Now you can blame SE for their oversight (great rewards+little effort+fast earnings=lazy player bandwagon). But stop blaming people for saying 'uhh...this should probably be fixed' for saying something. 100's of people should never have been decending on any of these mobs, but especially Rank B's. The Daily hunts really SHOULD have rewarded more Allied Seals for the effort (the horde could probably kill 1-2 A ranks and 4-6 B ranks in the time me and my chocobo sat waiting on a 2 Allied Seal FATE to spawn).

The bigger complaints about the hunts though, were that they made many other activities in game pointless. Why do your daily roulettes if Hunts=better faster rewards? Why do Frontlines, if Hunts=better rewards? Why do CT?/ST?/Coil/EX primals...all this content, was being ignored by LOTS of people in favor of 'the Hunt'. And it was effecting those NOT hunting in the form of long queues and/or less people looking for groups in PF etc.

I don't blame people for riding the 'gravy train' Especially when most of us knew it WAS a gravy train, and a Nerf HAD to be incoming. (Really, folk like me saying it should be changed had far less effect on it actually being changed than on SE seeing people like you, and many others go from sub ilvl 100 to almost ilvl 110 on multiple jobs in less than a month and going ...well need to fix that a bit. They watch player trends/queues/progression in game (and probably in this contents case, even GM griefing reports), and based on that decide whether to open or close the faucets). But really, you have yourselves to blame far more than those of us who said 'uhhhh SE is this how you wanted hunts to go?'

Lastly, looking down on people who didn't abuse the hunts and saying 'you poor dears, I'm so glad I got what I wanted' doesn't matter. My gear is more than fine as is on my character. I'll earn my gear and it's upgrades in due time....and I didn't spend the last month doing content in a way that is about as exciting as watching paint dry to do it.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

You are playing a mmorpg, you are not supposed to solo things.



Yes. B hunts are literally handled to you, no repop, no scounting, no competition. Your warp in a zone and they are there now. And you also want myth from them? That's not how it works.

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Yeah, see. On the one hand, yes I play an MMO to play with others. That does NOT mean I want to always play with others. But the bigger problem with hunts was never 'playing with others' I have had a blast playing with random other people when we would duo/trio/lowman a B mob we all happened across. Or the PLD I saved from certain doom who was out soloing a B rank and about to die...I didn't even engage the mob first, I healed the random pld I don't even know, then attacked...ask keeping him alive, and able to earn his seals from his find was more important to me than if I got full credit. The problem many people have with the hunts, is how many 'others' they have to play with. And/or the arbitrary rules each server/group came up with for killing each set of mobs. In my case, it was just too many people, and spamming medica II/cure III really isn't my idea of fun.

Still, I don't like that they are now serving b's up on a platter with no 'hunting' involved. I wish they would have kept them on their hourly timer, and then made all the other changes.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

You are playing a mmorpg, you are not supposed to solo things.

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If I recall, you are playing FF14, which encourages OPTIONS, and pretty much a "solo" mmorpg your first time around to level 50 with a few dungeons and trials that you cannot solo on your own. And this is why this game to me is great, it gives people OPTIONS on how they want to consume the contents. Until Hunt pretty much render any other options pointless since the only activity with the most reward for your time is to hop in the HUNT ZERG train, or you will be left behind.

And if you consider "Hunting Party" is your way of interacting with others as a form of social interaction, then you are delusional. It is a mindless zerg party, where is the next pop, warp, PLEASE HOLD!!!! INCOMING!!! OMW!! DON'T KILL, RESET!! Zero tactics or strategy involved, just kill it fast, move to the next A ranks. I rather have everyone forced to do some sort of "group teamwork activities" that require some semblance of tactics.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Yes. B hunts are literally handled to you, no repop, no scounting, no competition. Your warp in a zone and they are there now. And you also want myth from them? That's not how it works.

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I don't see why you can't get the same rewards as before, you cannot spam the B rank anymore, since it does not give ANY rewards if they are not on your daily list. Killing five of these a day is not going to be the most effective way to farm tomes, but those little rewards could help a lot of new players catching up. If the real reasons for Hunt is to help returning players to catch up with their basic entry level 90 gears, then they should reinstate the tomes reward for B rank. It will supplement other means of getting tomes and helping the casuals to catch up a bit faster so you don't have to deal with level 65-72 trying to kill content that are too difficult.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

And yet, it seems you and many people couldn't get even an A, hmm..

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This is where you are wrong, I have no problem getting A's, and the reward is just beyond amazing, it's broken.... It was not as bad before since you have the B's mob to stall some party. Now the A's and S's are the only options, and everyone will just do these, only the casuals will do B's now. If the Hunt Train for A rank was crowded before, now it's exploding to eternity with more people will feel entitled and demand everyone to wait for their alliance of 24 people as well...

Hunts were never meant to be giant gear piñatas that everyone fought over. They were supposed to be rewarding, yes, but they were also supposed to be challenging. Mobs of 30 people decimating B ranks in 10 seconds or less was not what Yoshi had envisioned.

My favorite analogy for hunts (pre-patch) is that they were Walmart Black Friday sales for gear. Giant mobs of people fighting and bickering over cheap stuff. Now we are seeing the sense of entitlement come out. Basic human nature, really.

Why change the hunts? How about because the hunt experience has not really played out the way the game's creators intended? How about for the sake of game balance? You think your desire to spend all day long farming B's for 5 seals a pop is a better reason to leave it the way it is?

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Originally Posted by LadyVal

I did. They have 5-sec spawns, don't attack unless provoked, require less contribution to get credit, and don't drop rewards.

Unless exp is considered a reward, it seems like it would be super easy to party with someone who can solo a B rank and just sponge up the exp without getting aggroed, and having that large source of exp respawn every 5 seconds.

If exp is considered a reward though, this all is moot.

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This part you missed lol

"Rank B elite marks will no longer yield rewards upon defeat.
* Upon defeating a rank B elite mark, players will only receive the reward granted by the elite mark bill in their possession."

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Originally Posted by Windseraph

Hypocritical post of the day, seriously he was just trying to help.

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Not hypocritical; my post wasn't written sarcastically. I was blunt. Not passive aggressive.