I hope this clears up some of the Rogue>Ninja rage

Sigh...

NIN would not get THF Artifact Armor or weapons. They are a different theme.
NIN job quests will not be appropriate for a THF.
THF cannot use Ninjitsu.
THF does not have to mean "bad dps who can steal". Zidane, Rikku, Locke, and Vaan prove that traditionally FF has always given Thief-based characters a prominent role and potent abilities besides the ability to steal.

I don't really care if they called it THF or ROG or Light Fighter if they really want to. It would be ridiculous but we could get over it. But it will be clear if the skillset is THF or NIN and their class-specific gear will be reflective of one or the other.

The class and job system I think it's great overall since he could easily make another job that draws from several classes and create unlimited possibilities (marauder + gladiator + thaumarge = dark knight, marauder + archer + conjurer = beastmaster, etc....) or later on combining several jobs into higher tier (white mage + black mage + red mage = Sage). It's very versatile possibilities, obviously with expansion after expansion, he could easily start all new jobs at level 50, and then you just have to level the last 5-15 levels to reach max level (at whatever stage the expansion is). As it is now, Rogue is evolving into Ninja, but who knows, in an expansion or two, it will also has Thief as it's counterpart. I think he did great so far with what was given to him. It's not perfect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clicked

Sigh...

NIN would not get THF Artifact Armor or weapons. They are a different theme.
NIN job quests will not be appropriate for a THF.
THF cannot use Ninjitsu.
THF does not have to mean "bad dps who can steal". Zidane, Rikku, Locke, and Vaan prove that traditionally FF has always given Thief-based characters a prominent role and potent abilities besides the ability to steal.

I don't really care if they called it THF or ROG or Light Fighter if they really want to. It would be ridiculous but we could get over it. But it will be clear if the skillset is THF or NIN and their class-specific gear will be reflective of one or the other.

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then be happy, THF = ROG.

and btw :
Locke => treasure hunter
Rikku => more an alchemist than a thief. Her "steal" was only a way to gather ressources for her limit.
Vaan => he's more a joke than a character, but anyway he's a sky pirate wannabe. He is thieving only in the first hour of the game and because he has no common sense at that time.
Zidane => is actually maybe the only one I'd call a thief.

One character in the entire series is far from what I'd call "traditionally FF has always given Thief-based characters a prominent role and potent abilities besides the ability to steal".

Besides, nearly every single character in the FF series that people like to call "thief" were in fact only characters with the "steal" ability. That does not make them thieves, as it is a traditional skill of solo FFs. Apart from that, there was the job thief in the early FFs which was a sub-job leading to ninja every single time.



Thief has only 2 iconic moves anyway. Flee and steal. You can't make a job with 5 skills (and more coming) based on that only. However, making a class inspired by the thief using daggers and stealth.... Oh wait

It seems people here have fond memories of FF11 ninja.

I am certain that the ninja of FF14 will not play the same way as the ninja in FF11. Many will be disappointed. Maybe it'll be the most hated job by others. Kinda like how others don't like having dragoons in their party.

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Originally Posted by myahele

It seems people here have fond memories of FF11 ninja.

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Indeed, and very fond memory of Summoner and Dragoon from FFXI... It is not the SAME game, so they need to either accept it as it is, or go back and play FFXI, which at current incarnation is better than ever with tons of adjustment and fixes every month and becoming more and more up to date with FF14. Yoshi did amazing job turning the absolute wretched mess that was version 1.0, granted with only 2 years development time, you can't expect everything to be pristine perfect. I am very glad he does not copy FFXI Everquest driven battle mechanic and instead opt for WoW game mechanic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Thief has only 2 iconic moves anyway. Flee and steal. You can't make a job with 5 skills (and more coming) based on that only. However, making a class inspired by the thief using daggers and stealth.... Oh wait

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Classes don't get AF and they have crappy stats. We want a Thief job. And Dragoon's only iconic move is jump. Warrior doesn't even have one except maybe multiple attacks. They can be creative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clicked

Classes don't get AF and they have crappy stats. We want a Thief job. And Dragoon's only iconic move is jump. Warrior doesn't even have one except maybe multiple attacks. They can be creative.

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It may come. It probably won't for a long time. There's no reason to push it out so fast especially with Ninja not even out yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

and btw :
Locke => treasure hunter
Rikku => more an alchemist than a thief. Her "steal" was only a way to gather ressources for her limit.
Vaan => he's more a joke than a character, but anyway he's a sky pirate wannabe. He is thieving only in the first hour of the game and because he has no common sense at that time.
Zidane => is actually maybe the only one I'd call a thief.

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For the record:
Locke: He was a thief. I guess you missed the joke in the beginning of the game. He doesn't want to admit it so he goes by "Treasure Hunter". It was funny. Haha?
Rikku: So they're defined by their limit? I guess Zidane and Yuffie must be Super Saiyans then.
Vaan: He's a young thief who wants to be a sky pirate. Once he gets involved with the plot he becomes more than that. They all do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Locke => treasure hunter
Rikku => more an alchemist than a thief. Her "steal" was only a way to gather ressources for her limit.
Vaan => he's more a joke than a character, but anyway he's a sky pirate wannabe. He is thieving only in the first hour of the game and because he has no common sense at that time.
Zidane => is actually maybe the only one I'd call a thief.

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Zidane is too tanky to be a Thief. He's more of an agile Warrior.　But he had Steal and Flee so...

Disappointed in the OP spreading this garbage.

With the exception of the fact he has steal and the need to steal the clothes for the South Figaro escape scene, what on earth makes Locke out to be a thief over the fact he is a treasure hunter in his own words?

Heck, remember where you find him in the WoR? Certainly not stealing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

One character in the entire series is far from what I'd call "traditionally FF has always given Thief-based characters a prominent role and potent abilities besides the ability to steal".
Besides, nearly every single character in the FF series that people like to call "thief" were in fact only characters with the "steal" ability. That does not make them thieves, as it is a traditional skill of solo FFs. Apart from that, there was the job thief in the early FFs which was a sub-job leading to ninja every single time.



Thief has only 2 iconic moves anyway. Flee and steal. You can't make a job with 5 skills (and more coming) based on that only.

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>This guy
>Thinks thief turns into ninja in 'all the early final fantasies'
>Thinks thief only have two abilities
>Thinks only one character in 20~ games is a thief

The troll is hard in this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starrywisdom

>This guy
>Thinks thief turns into ninja in 'all the early final fantasies'
>Thinks thief only have two abilities
>Thinks only one character in 20~ games is a thief

The troll is hard in this one.

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Quote:

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Thief-based characters a prominent role

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The context is important.

Although, this argument is running in circles like it always will. People don't care how it happens, as long as Thief job happens. Which makes me want MartaDemireux's idea of Thief tank to happen. That'd be funny to see.

I found it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I said this in a thread a little while ago and still stand by it:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Fairly certain Yoshi said in an interview that if they do implement Ninja that it would not be a tank.

That said I could see both Thief and Ninja coming from the same class, like others said likely Rogue or Scout.

I would put my gil on saying Ninja will be a DPS utilizing water magic (staple in the series), some sort of ranged attack via Throw (another staple, Thancred also showed us this ability), a poison or a blind (ninjas would do that IRL), the electrifying AoE attack (Yugiri showed us) and perhaps a buff/stance that added or enhanced a mechanic to their attacks. They would probably focus on attacking from behind for higher potency or combos like in the 2.2 cutscenes.

I think Thief could function as either a support DPS like Bard or perhaps even more likely as a tank. If someone steals from you, you don't like them. That would be a good theme to make them a tank. They could steal enmity from others and perhaps steal an enemy's energy for "charges" to use with other abilities. They could also charm and attract the monsters attention. On the other hand they could be a support DPS by stealing enmity from one player and putting it on another. They could focus on big burst damage like Dragoon. I could see them also stealing buffs and perhaps making use of them. Maybe a mechanic where they dispel a buff but if they do it a certain way, like from behind, they can get the exact buff for a short amount of time. Or, perhaps it activates other abilities or changes the effects of some abilities. They could potentially also steal a target's TP for their own use.

For the base class I would expect there to be an ability that is similar to DoL's stealth but with a short duration and for there to be attacks that capitalize on this ability to deal extra damage or even negate enmity generated. Both Thieves and Ninjas like to operate in the shadows and both had ways to make themselves invisible in XI.

As far as Thief as a class leading into Ninja: I greatly disagree. As we have seen from current classes not one of them shares a name with a traditional FF job. I expect that to continue. It was only in FF1 where Thief upgraded directly into Ninja and if we go by those standards then Warrior would have gone into Paladin. Thief in the rest of the series has always had a separate identity from Ninja when they appeared together. Thief has also varied quite a bit depending on the game much like Scholar did so this is a great place to give it another identity of its own in a similar fashion.

Examples of its variance:
FFI: Can escape from battles.
FFIII: Can now steal.
FFV: Can now mug (attack while stealing), boost movement speed and detect hidden passages.
FFX-2: Can now steal MP, HP, inflict Berserk and Stop status effects and force the enemy to run.
FFXI: Can now transfer enmity of own attacks to another player, steal enmity from other players, steal buffs from enemies, inflict Terror and focuses on quick critical multi-hits.
FFT: Can now steal a units equipment and EXP as well as inflict Charm.
FFTA: Can now counter attacks, steal abilities directly from the enemy for use and prevent the theft and damage of your own equipment.
FFTA2: Same as FFTA but with the ability to steal the units Smash Gauge, a new battle mechanic.
FF4HoL: Can now steal from multiple enemies at once and gains an instant death ability.
BDFF: Can now convert their speed into an attack that ignores defense and recovers it's own HP when stealing an item.

So with that variance I could most certainly see a tank coming in the form of Thief in FFXIV. Throughout its history it's always had a focus of stealing but always had something different. A combination of HP/TP stealing, Terror/Stop (could function as Stun here), AoE stealing (for enmity), Berserk/Charm (could function as a provoke), countering attacks, stealing a party member's enmity and burst damage could make for an interesting tank. Evasion tanking is tough to balance though but it could potentially be done with a stance that allows the build of charges gained with stealing actions to either mitigate damage or evade it.

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Essentially what I expect:

Rogue/Scout (DPS):
Stealth/Hide (PvP: blocked out or have very short duration)
Attacks focus on hitting from behind. Fast, critical hitter.
Buffs to evasion.
Steal & Swipe but won't steal items. Perhaps used in mechanic for other abilities or temporary potions. Only usable while in stealth.
Accomplice - equalize the enmity of you and another player.
Flee - increased movement speed, stacks with sprint but not with Swiftsong.

Ninja (DPS):
30: Throw - Ranged attack.
35: Blitz - AoE lightning damage.
40: Water Veil - Ranged water damage and silence.
45: Smoke Bomb - Ranged damage and Blind.
50: Mirage/Utsusemi - Buff that allows your back attack bonuses to be applied at any direction. Allows short duration of stealth while in combat. Bonus damage while in stealth.

Thief (Tank):
30: Vigilance: Tank enmity/mitigation stance. Allows counter-attacks. Changes some class abilities to generate enmity. Adds a mechanic to theft type abilities and can be used while not in stealth. Steal upgrades to Mug, Swipe to Pillage for increased enmity and added damage. Accomplice takes some of the other players enmity and adds it to your own etc.
35: Life Steal/Pilfer HP: Steals HP from target. High enmity.
40: Detect: Anticipates attacks for reduced/nullified damage.
45: Larceny: Steal an active buff from target. If no buff steals TP and deals critical damage. High enmity.
50: Perfect Dodge: Long cooldown 100% mitigation.

Thief varied a lot in other games so it can be changed significantly in this one like they did with Scholar.

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Listen stop with the whole thief thing.

They thought rogue would be the name, if the job doesn't steal anything from monsters then it ain't a thief get it got it good.

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Originally Posted by Codek

From what I recall from the live letters, the main reason they named it Rogue was simply because they thought it wouldn't make any sense to have a "Thief" guild within a major city. What leader would go on and say "uh yep, I think having a bunch of thieves running around would make a great addition towards my society"?

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Which is absolutely stupid, because why would the Thieve's Guild need or want to be accepted by the leadership of a major city? In what setting has it ever been the case that a city welcomed its Thieve's Guild? Yoshi's explanation was patently ridiculous and shows that he doesn't really get it when it comes to Thieve's Guilds. The guild wouldn't have a bright, flashy sign saying 'HEY HERE WE ARE COME TRAIN TO STEAL STUFF;' instead you'd use some form of non-verbal communication in a seedy pub and make your way into a secret back room where all the guild work took place.

Also, what leadership would have a problem with a thieve's guild WHILE STILL ALLOWING SOMETHING LIKE THE SYNDICATE TO EXIST.

"Oh, Ul'dah couldn't allow a thieve's guild, but sure, your criminal organization that regularly kidnaps people, murders people, and commits rampant amounts of violent crime is perfectly allowed within our city! Here, have a seat on our council!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I agree that Uldah would be the place for a thieves\assassins guild and it would be a secret organization.

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I would totally be into this. Not just a second job forked off of Rogue, but as its own class. Assassin could be the job. Hmm. Sorta like a dark reflection of Rogue/Ninja. Lore-wise it doesn't have to be incompatible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clicked

Classes don't get AF and they have crappy stats. We want a Thief job. And Dragoon's only iconic move is jump. Warrior doesn't even have one except maybe multiple attacks. They can be creative.

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let's be honest, we can decline multiple types of jumps (as they did). We can hardly decline multiple forms of "flee" (well, stealth will do) or "steal" (steal what anyway ? there is only trash from mobs). I'm all for creativity, but a thief is stealing, and there is nothing to steal in this game. They made more of it and named it rogue, that's just it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clicked

For the record:
Locke: He was a thief. I guess you missed the joke in the beginning of the game. He doesn't want to admit it so he goes by "Treasure Hunter". It was funny. Haha?
Rikku: So they're defined by their limit? I guess Zidane and Yuffie must be Super Saiyans then.
Vaan: He's a young thief who wants to be a sky pirate. Once he gets involved with the plot he becomes more than that. They all do.

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Locke : Ilenya answered you
Rikku : Her and Yuffie are false arguments. Every FF7 and every FFX character can learn "steal". Or you're saying that Tidus, wakka, any other... were all thieves too ?
Vaan : I won't get back on him. I suppose everyone has their own way to see the character.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Zidane is too tanky to be a Thief. He's more of an agile Warrior.　But he had Steal and Flee so...

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On the other hand, FF9's lore specifically says he is a thief.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starrywisdom

>This guy
>Thinks thief turns into ninja in 'all the early final fantasies'
>Thinks thief only have two abilities
>Thinks only one character in 20~ games is a thief

The troll is hard in this one.

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stop trolling and prove me wrong ?

=> find an other iconic move besides steal and flee (mug doesn't count, it's an upgrade of steal)
=> FF1 : thief gives ninja
FF3 and FF5 : thief comes from an earlier crystal than ninja, and share similar gimmicks. btw, quote me right next time :

Quote:

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sub-job leading to ninja

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not

Quote:

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thief turns into ninja

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FF tactics : thief is a necessary step to ninja

Tbh, people are upset because of two main factors.
The name change and the fact that it is only a class.

So yes, as others have said, people would be upset even if they didn't change the name.
Personally, I think people would be less upset if they didn't change the name to Rogue because at least then, SE would have remained 'true' to the FF series lore. In FF games it has always been called Thief.

To those of you who are hoping for a "Thief" job to be added at some point down the line; I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Honestly, I think when it comes down to it that is another reason why people are upset. They know that with the addition of "Rogue" and Ninja, they won't get Thief as a job.
The job would be too similar to Ninja and far too redundant. As far as Thief tanks go... no. Just no. = =;;

Bottom line; people feel strongly about this.
Dismissing their feelings by saying "Oh, just imagine it says Thief in your head." is fairly insulting.
It's equally annoying when people say "Rogue = Thief. It's the same thing". If it was the same thing then people wouldn't be upset by it. Or, if it is the same thing then they shouldn't have changed the name to begin with.

Personally, I was looking forward to them adding Thief. Since they're not, it's really disappointing to me since I was also looking forward to it.

I'll deal with it, it isn't the end of the world.
I certainly won't begrudge those who are happy with the addition of Rogue and Ninja.

It's not the name.

I dont feel people are upset about Thief being called Rogue.

People are upset because they want to play Thief, and not be a Ninja.

And with the current system in place, the only way they can be a Thief is to play Rogue to lv.50 and never "upgrade" to Ninja, which has everything they do but also better stats and more abilities.

So all the people wanting to play Thief are stuck with the weak class. And thus by FFXIV's game mechanics, unwanted by the community.

Maybe in Future they will add THF to Rogue , so it will be like Arcanist = sch+smn . Rogue 1st of all it's a class and not job , like Gladiator for PLD , and Thief is actually Job - not a class . So that why they actually able to add it in future . Also Yoshi said Thief guild will not fit current Eorzea , but Job quests we actually take from certain "NPC" who in many cases WAS use job (Exmample:) Bard , or currently on job while other "citizens of Eorzea not . Adding some lore + some "Old man" NPC who before was greatest Thief may fix the problem :D
sorry for my eng , was sleepy when spotted the topic :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vladislav

Maybe in Future they will add THF to Rogue , so it will be like Arcanist = sch+smn . Rogue 1st of all it's a class and not job , like Gladiator for PLD , and Thief is actually Job

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So either you don't watch live letter, or you just didn't red this thread except for the last few page because it already has been stated by yoshida himself that rogue = thief.
They changed the name because of stupid lore reasons but rogue is thief, 100% thief so there won't be a thief job since thief is already the base class for ninja.

This is a very stupid thread.

For all intents and purposes for now Rogue = Thief.

There will be no Thief job in the near future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZReport

There will be no Thief job in the near future.

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With the direction they are headed I wouldn't be surprised if there were no XIV at all in the near future. Some of the design decisions of late have been really, really bad. They need to get back on track.

So, you smash theprimals to save the world from them draining all the aether, defeat the heads of an invading force whilst destrying their ultimate weapon that could force Eorzea to surrender. Destroy numerous overworld threats making the world safer, try to bring about friendship between the beastmen tribes and the people of eorzea.

Then you break into peoples houses to steal their stuff.

Why would you join a thieves guild? You are a prominent figure in the Eorzean world, famous for your exploits to save Eorzea, an icon to many. Why would a thieves guild even ant someone so obviuosly in the limelight? Please don't bring up that you could do X,Y,Z in FFXI because last time I checked we weren't playing that :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Snip

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The problem doesn't lie with ffxi, but with the final fantasy franchise in itself, thief never ever became ninja, thief OPENED the way to ninja, it's different.
Here we are forced to play ninja even if we don't want to and while it's true that a good deal of your skills are still rogue's, in the end you're still a ninja, it was no big deal with the other classes because they were only in FF xiv but thief is a FF wide class, not a one game class like gladiator.

Besides, who cares about what you do, I could be the overlord for all I care and still be a whitemage, your actions are heroic, not your being, nothing stops you from being a thief if you want to, even if you are the savior of the world, since when does outsiders' opinion matters to your very person? If I want to wear an Hawaiian shirt I wear one, I don't care if people thinks it doesn't suit me.

And again it has absolutely nothing to do with XI, I never even played XI and yet it still annoys me that my favorite job is turned into a mere class and that the job I always hated the most became this very class's evolution.

Oh man. Oh man, oh man.

Listen. I love Thief. I am a fan of Final Fantasy and its thieves. I was a career THF in FFXI. Rikku was pretty cool in FFX. As FFIX's protagonist, Zidane's upbeat attitude was a breath of fresh air after Squall's feigned indifference in FFVIII. Yuffie? She was absolutely a thief and proud of it, that ninja get-up wasn't fooling anyone. And don't even get me started on Locke, the premier treasure hunter and adventurer we all know and love. (Also there was Vaan, I guess?)

I had been speculating and postulating and wishing, hoping and praying for Thief in FFXIV since 1.x's official announcement. When we got 'classes' instead of jobs, my question was, "if not Thief, then what?" and the answer for the longest time was, "nothing". More accurately, the answer was something like "all of these other classes" since the usual thief-like skills had become divided among Lancer, Archer and Pugilist. But Yoshi-P promised that a dual-wielding, stealthy scout class was forthcoming, so I was patient.

There was plenty of debate over this class and the Job that would follow. I made my opinions known in these forums. For me, the reveal of Rogue and Ninja was as exciting as it was disappointing. That's because it felt a lot like all that patience didn't pay off. Understand this: I don't give a damn about getting Ninja for Ninja's sake. I am going to use it because I have no choice, because it is as close to Thief as we may ever get. Perhaps Rogue will have the thief-like skills I want (including enmity mechanics and a steal), perhaps not. Regardless, many glamour prisms shall be expended in order to resemble the Thief I truly wanted to be.

But leaving all of that aside, this is what I want to know. Of all the jobs we could have gotten, of all the jobs we have yet to get, why is it that people are so adamant that we should NOT have Thief as a Job? No one is arguing against Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, Samurai or Templar! Consider Geomancer, Time Mage, Berserker or Ranger, all have many champions but few detractors. I have seen pleas and treatments for Dancer, Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, Necromancer, Cannoneer and Chemist, but no one is arguing against any of those as fervently as they do against Thief.

One last thing. All of the job quests involve an NPC who passes on to you some sort of 'lost knowledge' as part of your training.
There is absolutely no reason that a Thief job could not be handled in the exact same way.

THIEF IN EXPANSION 2015

I'm surprised that people are making a big deal out of the name. If they are upset about a name then imagine the uproar when ninjas can't become tanks unlike their FF11 counterparts. I've never played 11, but all mentions of Ninja is that they can be tank-like due to some of the cross skills you can use.

Also, in many rpgs I've played rogue/theif are pretty interchangeable anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

The problem doesn't lie with ffxi, but with the final fantasy franchise in itself, thief never ever became ninja, thief OPENED the way to ninja, it's different.

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Final Fantasy 1 says hi.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_(Final_Fantasy)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'm surprised that people are making a big deal out of the name. If they are upset about a name then imagine the uproar when ninjas can't become tanks unlike their FF11 counterparts. I've never played 11, but all mentions of Ninja is that they can be tank-like due to some of the cross skills you can use.

Also, in many rpgs I've played rogue/theif are pretty interchangeable anyway.

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I imagine a couple mechanics and most importantly the "image" of Thief is also lost too. I'm not a crazy thief fan but I do feel it is likely the image will not be "all there". Kind of like people who wanted an actual bard rather than a partial mostly dps bard (Yoshi doesn't do support class! lol). Or summoners who wanted to meet that classic image. FF has a lot of consistent imagery, so it is awkward to lose that.

Ninja looks nothing like Thief and unless SE makes concession to players who wanted Thief it is unlikely they will ever get the image. There are of course abilities that the Rogue might not have to make it feel Thief like, but that is great speculation.. (easy to assume ninja will not look like Thief, cause.. yeah). Not a Thief player, but I do commiserate at least in the likely loss of a desired image.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

So either you don't watch live letter, or you just didn't red this thread except for the last few page because it already has been stated by yoshida himself that rogue = thief.
They changed the name because of stupid lore reasons but rogue is thief, 100% thief so there won't be a thief job since thief is already the base class for ninja.

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And developers never EVER change their mind and they always follow through with everything they say.

THF will happen if they see us clamoring for it. Just not anytime soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

Final Fantasy 1 says hi.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_(Final_Fantasy)

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So following your logic WAR should just be a class and PLD should be it's job? Ok.

There are 12 jobs in FF1 but 4 of them (Master and the Wizards) are just stronger version of their base jobs. So there are a total of 8 jobs in FF1. WAR, MNK, THF, WHM, BLM, RDM, PLD, and NIN. None of these are classes. They are either not in the game or they are jobs. Converting a job to a class is an insult to one of the original jobs in the series.

The main problem with this naming is that people will be all like "rouge".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clicked

So following your logic WAR should just be a class and PLD should be it's job? Ok.

There are 12 jobs in FF1 but 4 of them (Master and the Wizards) are just stronger version of their base jobs. So there are a total of 8 jobs in FF1. WAR, MNK, THF, WHM, BLM, RDM, PLD, and NIN. None of these are classes. They are either not in the game or they are jobs. Converting a job to a class is an insult to one of the original jobs in the series.

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I would highly suggest calming down, and taking a deep breath. Now then, let's see here... Tell me, every job, of every character in every Final Fantasy game, that is held in such high sacrilege to say that they are ruining, or insulting the job. They have already stated, due to lore reasons in FINAL FANTASY 14, note, 14, not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8, not 9, not 10, not 11, not 12, not 13, but 14... That they cannot, and will not call the class thief.

And I am rather curious as to how useful the classic thief skills would be anyway. "Oh hey Twin! Let me use steal on you! ... Wait, it doesn't work on bosses? That's a useless skill! Let me try steal gil! ... That doesn't work either? WHAT THE HECK SQUARE!" Not everyone can be pleased, and quite frankly, while I think everyone will hop on the NIN train like the DRG train... The people that complain, are yet again, the vocal minority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

[Classic THF skills. This is FFXIV not another FF.]

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Well to use the same argument. This is FFXIV, a standalone game. They can alter the classic THF abilities any way they see fit. They could steal stats, HP/MP/TP, arbitrary things to use in mechanics (such as morale to give to party members (not PvP morale)), enmity, buffs etc. It could work as a supporting DPS (such as BRD) just as well as it could a tank.

And for those talking about stealing and how we can't do it because we're the heroes, the official Rogue description mentions how they pilfer ill-gotten gains. So that argument is moot.

In addition for those saying that thief leads to ninja and use FFT as an example, don't forget that archer unlocks thief which unlocks ninja and ninja also required levels in geomancer.

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

I would highly suggest calming down, and taking a deep breath.

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I'm supposed to calm down? Read your own post breh.

What I was implying is that they are paying dust to the original game by making Thief into a class. It's better to exclude it altogether. It's also going to gnaw at everyone's OCD that one of the most iconic jobs is actually a class where as every other FF job is a job. The lore reason is stupid and I'm not sure how anyone buys it for the multitude of reasons already stated in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

And I am rather curious as to how useful the classic thief skills would be anyway. "Oh hey Twin! Let me use steal on you! ... Wait, it doesn't work on bosses? That's a useless skill! Let me try steal gil! ... That doesn't work either? WHAT THE HECK SQUARE!"

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And why exactly does everyone think that THF should just have Steal and nothing else? I guess all Warriors just have "Attack"? Summoners just have Summon?

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Originally Posted by Clicked

So following your logic WAR should just be a class and PLD should be it's job? Ok.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

The problem doesn't lie with ffxi, but with the final fantasy franchise in itself, thief never ever became ninja, thief OPENED the way to ninja, it's different.

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It was a valid refutation. He claimed Thief never became Ninja, and was proven wrong by facts. If he said, "thief became Ninja once and then opened the way in latter games" that would be correct.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

If he said, "thief became Ninja once and then opened the way in latter games" that would be correct.

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Okay my bad, I had forgotten about FF I but it's the only installment in which you are forced to go ninja, for the others it's not handicapping to stay thief since they have different purposes.
Ninja may have once been THF's evolution but that was only once, now they are both are standalone jobs for years.

And eard, hi nothing, your link is dead >_>

Clicked, if they do change their mind it will be a pretty stupid decision considering they already stated that rogue is thief, if they add a thief later they'll just negate this, even tho I'd love to see thief as a job.

They wanted to play it hype and failed, the number of people complaining is enough proof, no matter how petty the arguments can be, fact is lots of people don't like that a JOB got downgraded to a class.

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Originally Posted by Quintalian

But leaving all of that aside, this is what I want to know. Of all the jobs we could have gotten, of all the jobs we have yet to get, why is it that people are so adamant that we should NOT have Thief as a Job? No one is arguing against Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dark Knight, Samurai or Templar! Consider Geomancer, Time Mage, Berserker or Ranger, all have many champions but few detractors. I have seen pleas and treatments for Dancer, Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, Necromancer, Cannoneer and Chemist, but no one is arguing against any of those as fervently as they do against Thief.

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Because thief is already here in the class named rogue. End of story, thanks for coming.

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Originally Posted by Clicked

So following your logic WAR should just be a class and PLD should be it's job? Ok.

There are 12 jobs in FF1 but 4 of them (Master and the Wizards) are just stronger version of their base jobs. So there are a total of 8 jobs in FF1. WAR, MNK, THF, WHM, BLM, RDM, PLD, and NIN. None of these are classes. They are either not in the game or they are jobs. Converting a job to a class is an insult to one of the original jobs in the series.

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Try again next time, the base for paladin in FF1 was fighter, not warrior.


Seriously guys, how about suggesting anything to make thief works (if ever...) instead of just aimlessly ranting hoping for SE to lose development time to find how to make a stealing job work in a game where you have nothing valuable to loot ?

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Because thief is already here in the class named rogue. End of story, thanks for coming.



Try again next time, the base for paladin in FF1 was fighter, not warrior.

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http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/W...nal_Fantasy%29

Anyways, SE won't lose development time seeing as they've already made their decision concerning Rogue, Thief and Ninja. People here are either trying to remain willfully ignorant or are simply delusional at believing Thief will come any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Try again next time, the base for paladin in FF1 was fighter, not warrior.

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Fighter and Warrior are the same job with different names. It seems like that sort of situation applies here too, doesn't it? Thief is already here, but it's named Rogue.

Well, perhaps you're right. We don't know exactly what's included in Rogue's skill set. If there is some kind of stealing skill, then Thief's bread and butter ability, the very heart of the Thief, would be possessed by Rogue and I'd concede that we will likely, 99% certainly never get a Thief job.

However, don't tell me stealing can't work. There have already been numerous examples given in this thread alone. FFXI THF's repertoire has plenty of tricks that could be adapted, not the least of which is Aura Steal. Against foes that have nothing to steal (or when regular Steal fails), it dispels a foe's buff with a chance to apply it to the Thief.

And I can't believe this is going over so many heads, but just because mobs currently have "nothing to steal", that doesn't mean it would be that way if Steal were to be added. If nothing else, Steal could just pull from the usual drop pool (and maybe have a greater chance of HQ) for quicker farming.

Didn't consider people would rage about this, but yeah, it makes sense. Thief is a job, Ninja is another. Thaumarge is basically a BLM lite, just like conjurer was a WHM lite, etc. so np there.

Then again, this game is WoW with FFXIV skin, so what did ppl expect?

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Originally Posted by Quintalian

Fighter and Warrior are the same job with different names. It seems like that sort of situation applies here too, doesn't it? Thief is already here, but it's named Rogue.

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I don't really want to break it nor argue names and stuff but the original was named fighter, and who knows why they decided to rename him "warrior" after that besides the group already being the "warriors of light" >_>
anyway.

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Originally Posted by Quintalian

However, don't tell me stealing can't work. There have already been numerous examples given in this thread alone. FFXI THF's repertoire has plenty of tricks that could be adapted, not the least of which is Aura Steal. Against foes that have nothing to steal (or when regular Steal fails), it dispels a foe's buff with a chance to apply it to the Thief.

And I can't believe this is going over so many heads, but just because mobs currently have "nothing to steal", that doesn't mean it would be that way if Steal were to be added. If nothing else, Steal could just pull from the usual drop pool (and maybe have a greater chance of HQ) for quicker farming.

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Stealing HP would serve no purpose other than having a "second wind" doing damage but ok, maybe. But other than that... stealing MP ? for what purpose ? Stealing TP to mobs which don't have any TP ? stealing gils ? so ou won't have them to the mob's death, useless. For the buff, it would also be impossible due to :

=> impossible buffs like haste
=> bosses buffs that you can't gain nor cancel for obvious reasons

stealing trash loot from mobs would also be useless. Who would play thief at high level with only that ? (because let's be honest, if they add a new job it's to see it played at end-game). Make it a harvest job if that's what you want.