Things that need to change for the better

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Not mad... In denial.

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Nope, he's mad. He's starting to call people who beat the dungeon and disagree with him elitist pricks.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Hey bro the patch is awsome BUT the dungeon needs some nerf and the ONLY problems with the patch are issues effecting the class I play everything else is perfect except the nerfs to mages. surely sounds like you are mad....U MAD BRO?

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Hm..looks like you don't know how to read either.

1) The MP cost thing is just way too high
2) Con has access to 4 raises, so why can't we use them?
3) I didn't want CON to be a healer, but since it obviously is now, why can't it use the full extent of it's abilities?
4) Mages got the short end of the stick this time whether you believe it or not. At least other jobs will actually be able to use their AA =)


and yes, I'm very mad at the horrible imbalance in this game.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

good thing I know how to play and anyone who says L2P at this point is just an elitist prick with self esteem issues. =)

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There are plenty of non "elitist pricks" getting past initial aggro of the Ogre. Some have killed it, most have surely gotten him down to 50% or less by now. You're doing something wrong. Go look around for strategies if you really can't figure it out. I find it difficult to believe that not even one person in your party is competent enough to form a decent strategy on their own. But yea, there's some decent info out there if you look for it.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

There are plenty of non "elitist pricks" getting past initial aggro of the Ogre. Some have killed it, most have surely gotten him down to 50% or less by now. You're doing something wrong. Go look around for strategies if you really can't figure it out. I find it difficult to believe that not even one person in your party is competent enough to form a decent strategy on their own. But yea, there's some decent info out there if you look for it.

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we have tried many strategies. Some have been our own and some have been other peoples. If we do manage to get past the first AoE rapefest, which doesn't happen often, it is usually followed by the melees getting nuked down in a matter of seconds becase of, once again, AoE spam. You can only do so much with a CON and THM.

This has to be the fastest growing thread I've seen in a while here lol.. I just can't look away!

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Hm..looks like you don't know how to read either.

1) The MP cost thing is just way too high
2) Con has access to 4 raises, so why can't we use them?
3) I didn't want CON to be a healer, but since it obviously is now, why can't it use the full extent of it's abilities?
4) Mages got the short end of the stick this time whether you believe it or not. At least other jobs will actually be able to use their AA =)


and yes, I'm very mad at the horrible imbalance in this game.

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Bro its ok to be mad its ok to cry bro we all support you. Sure several other people are having no problem with the "balance" issues you speak of but just remember you are a good mage and everyone else who isnt complaining or having problems is cheating or something like that. You are a good mage!

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Originally Posted by Dubont

good thing I know how to play and anyone who says L2P at this point is just an elitist prick with self esteem issues. =)

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count the number of people in this thread who think the dungeons are fine as a challenge, then compare it to the number of people who think that they need a nerf. MORE people would think that the dungeons are fine as they are now. See who is elitist now? elitist in a stupid way that is..

let me say this again, IT'S ONLY BEEN A FEW DAYS. If you think dungeons that can be beaten with strategies formulated within those few days need a nerf, and without actually trying to formulate effective strategies for your party you complain on the forum for those dungeons to be nerfed, you need to PRACTICE MORE. I'm not going to say "L2P" because you definitely knew how to play, the thing is you don't know how to beat the Ogre. That's the exciting part. FIND A WAY.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

it must suck knowing that your opinions don't matter because you have absolutely 0 experience with any of this =)

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Yeah, but I bet it doesn't suck as much as being a baddie in denial.

So, Meowy, what was your party when you beat the Ogre?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yeah, but I bet it doesn't suck as much as being a baddie in denial.

So, Meowy, what was your party when you beat the Ogre?

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a baddie? lol yeah ok. Talk to me when you can actually do something effective =)

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Bro its ok to be mad its ok to cry bro we all support you. Sure several other people are having no problem with the "balance" issues you speak of but just remember you are a good mage and everyone else who isnt complaining or having problems is cheating or something like that. You are a good mage!

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people like you ruin this game =)

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Originally Posted by nRosenberg

count the number of people in this thread who think the dungeons are fine as a challenge, then compare it to the number of people who think that they need a nerf. MORE people would think that the dungeons are fine as they are now. See who is elitist now? elitist in a stupid way that is..

let me say this again, IT'S ONLY BEEN A FEW DAYS. If you think dungeons that can be beaten with strategies formulated within those few days need a nerf, and without actually trying to formulate effective strategies for your party you complain on the forum for those dungeons to be nerfed, you need to PRACTICE MORE. I'm not going to say "L2P" because you definitely knew how to play, the thing is you don't know how to beat the Ogre. That's the exciting part. FIND A WAY.

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Tried. Everything we've done in the past 5 runs has led to wipes. Either the mages get AoEd in the face by the ogre because we cured or we get AoEd in the back because we avoided the Ogre's AoE.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

people like you ruin this game =)

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Bro maybe SE wont nerf the instance but will add a "terrible player mode" so people who are bad at the game like you and I can go in and beat those nasty bosses and feel accomplished!

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Bro maybe SE wont nerf the instance but will add a "terrible player mode" so people who are bad at the game like you and I can go in and beat those nasty bosses and feel accomplished!

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.......you can go now

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Tried. Everything we've done in the past 5 runs has led to wipes. Either the mages get AoEd in the face by the ogre because we cured or we get AoEd in the back because we avoided the Ogre's AoE.

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Have your mages tried using Soughspeak to decrease enmity generated?

What is your party composition? Do you have enough tanks and do they coordinate well enough to alternate enmity actions between your cures?

Were you all equipped with Prime Conditioning?

have you tried Heavy Stab - Heavy Slash BR to bring down his attack power?

What about Gear/Actions setup? Is it optimized already?

Did your party move out of the way when the Chain Bearers moved in, and did they moved back in when the Chain Bearers moved back out?

Did you make sure that the tanks are pulling the Ogre to face the other way around from the rest of the party?

Did you make sure that GLAs should use the ability "Cover" in case of emergencies?

Did you make sure that your party were spread out enough to minimize AoE damage, but not too far to allow speedy curing?

and lots other different strategies.. we can discuss strategies in a calm manner ok :)

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Bro maybe SE wont nerf the instance but will add a "terrible player mode" so people who are bad at the game like you and I can go in and beat those nasty bosses and feel accomplished!

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No he should stay that's a good idea. You should get a fluffy bunny instead of an ogre that AoE heals you.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yeah, but I bet it doesn't suck as much as being a baddie in denial.

So, Meowy, what was your party when you beat the Ogre?

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We haven't beat it yet. We spent the last 2 days perfecting our strategy, which we're proud to say is perfect now. Would have won on our last run yesterday if it wasn't for a stray elbow drop on a mage and a missed cure on the tank, right as we were running uphill from the ghost teleport. Tank died shortly after reaching the top, which lead to a wipe and we called it for the day. Ogre was around 35%

Our party setup was GLD THM CON CON PUG LNC ARC ARC if I remember correctly. Those were the only 2 deaths the entire fight and there was no downtime for anyone, constant damage from everyone without a single inferno drop going off (all stunned.) I think the elbow drop might have been the only move that hit someone other than our tank, but don't remember clearly.

The fight is hard, and even the slightest mistake can screw it up. We are however confident that we will complete it today, and I will see if we can do a run without any archers. Will post picks if we do, to show that it is possible with only Melee DD.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

The update was awesome, but it had some severe bad sides and a few other things that need tweaking.

1) Cure MP costs. They are much too high and before anyone says "But 11's were high!" yeah, but a cure 3 wasn't 135MP

2) Raises need to be on separate timers. What's the point of having 4 different types of raises, as a CON, if we can only use 2?

3) Stats need enhancing. Aside from VIT and MND, they do next to nothing.

4) Gear damage from death needs to be abolished or reduced. Every dungeon run, I come out with at least 3 pieces of broken gear. This is unacceptable considering people want close to 10k to repair something...

5) the r45 dungeon needs a slight nerf. "CRY MOAR!" no seriously, the ogre opens up with AoE spam and the mages are usually dead in the first 30 seconds of the fight which leads to #6. Also, fix it so that if you wipe and have to return, that the mobs don't pop until you're team is inside the room. It is VERY hard to recover from a wipe on that fight as you will probably wipe again before your team is back into the fight (Stupid ghosts..)

6) Enmity needs to be fixed. The current system is severely flawed. A GLA used 3 vokes and a couple of WS on a mob, I cure 3'd once...mob turned around and bam, 1 shot.

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You could have just written "I want easymode back!"

Would have saved you quite a bit of time and would have said the same thing.

No thanks. Now the game is beginning to be a challenge, let's keep it that way.

Also, Dubont: Why not simply use a bot like proposed in the other thread?
Works for crafting, why shouldn't it work for MP management also?
Perhaps one that can play the game for you?

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Also, Dubont: Why not simply use a bot like proposed in the other thread?
Works for crafting, why shouldn't it work for MP management also?
Perhaps one that can play the game for you?

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I'm quite sure quite a few people posting in this forum expect Yoshida to drop from a cab every evening and ring their doorbell: "Hello sir, I've come to level up your character sir, oh, by the way, do you want me to run the dungeons for you as well?"

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

We haven't beat it yet. We spent the last 2 days perfecting our strategy, which we're proud to say is perfect now. Would have won on our last run yesterday if it wasn't for a stray elbow drop on a mage and a missed cure on the tank, right as we were running uphill from the ghost teleport. Tank died shortly after reaching the top, which lead to a wipe and we called it for the day. Ogre was around 35%

Our party setup was GLD THM CON CON PUG LNC ARC ARC if I remember correctly. Those were the only 2 deaths the entire fight and there was no downtime for anyone, constant damage from everyone without a single inferno drop going off (all stunned.) I think the elbow drop might have been the only move that hit someone other than our tank, but don't remember clearly.

The fight is hard, and even the slightest mistake can screw it up. We are however confident that we will complete it today, and I will see if we can do a run without any archers. Will post picks if we do, to show that it is possible with only Melee DD.

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I'm actually excited to get to 45 to do it >.< First time in my entire time playing.

Also I want to see the other dungeons they have planned!

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I'm actually excited to get to 45 to do it >.< First time in my entire time playing.

Also I want to see the other dungeons they have planned!

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Yea it's really that good. If you liked CoP from XI (dunno if you played) you will enjoy this. For the first time in XIV's life, fights require real strategy and cooperation. Can't wait to see what's waiting for us in future patches.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Yea it's really that good. If you liked CoP from XI (dunno if you played) you will enjoy this. For the first time in XIV's life, fights require real strategy and cooperation. Can't wait to see what's waiting for us in future patches.

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No, never got far in XI :P The economy + way spells were learned just totally turned me off that game.

But damn, hope they continue like this! GO GO YOSHI-P!

You shouldn't be surprised to see a Cure III steal hate from the tank at the beginning of a fight, that's actually normal in every MMO including FFXI. If Cures generate so much enmity how about telling your tank to equip them?

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Originally Posted by Alkar

You shouldn't be surprised to see a Cure III steal hate from the tank at the beginning of a fight, that's actually normal in every MMO including FFXI. If Cures generate so much enmity how about telling your tank to equip them?

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Exactly. Gotta get used to it anyway, since as soon as jobs get implemented Paladins will be the main tank :D

So much hate here... it is sad

It is getting pretty heated, but I'm sure the philosophy behind the dungeons was to make them with jobs in mind. A paladin will function better as your tank than a gladiator, a white mage will heal better etc.

So it's pretty tough now, but I expect it to get a lot easier once we have them.

Good read, don't agree with any of the points much except mp cost is maybe a tad high. Rank up your arc 1 more level Dubont, chameleon would help ya with those cure 3 bombs.

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Yea it's really that good. If you liked CoP from XI (dunno if you played) you will enjoy this. For the first time in XIV's life, fights require real strategy and cooperation. Can't wait to see what's waiting for us in future patches.

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Yes. And the music is

FABULOUS.

Really keeps you going even after countless deaths ^.^/

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Originally Posted by Dubont

we have tried many strategies. Some have been our own and some have been other peoples. If we do manage to get past the first AoE rapefest, which doesn't happen often, it is usually followed by the melees getting nuked down in a matter of seconds becase of, once again, AoE spam. You can only do so much with a CON and THM.

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The first AoE isn't bad at all and did you stop to think a ranged AoE attack might have some kind of a completely avoidable trigger? I've run into trouble with him using it 2/3 times in a row later but initially it's not that bad.

With the most common (from what I've seen) strategy there's no one best spot to stand in, it's a shifting battle.

Cure 3 can pull crazy hate so maybe you shouldn't use it right off the bat. Use proper enmity managing skills. The mages I play with have had little trouble if they play smart. Also maybe settle for a lower cure until the tank builds proper hate.

to those saying that I'm using Cure 3 at the start...I'm not...the GLA got a good 3 vokes and 2 ws off before I even bothered to pull my weapon out.

3 provokes isn't enough. There's also taunt, disorient and accomplice, not to mention having intimidation equipped.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

3 provokes isn't enough. There's also taunt, disorient and accomplice, not to mention having intimidation equipped.

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like I said, it SHOULD have been enough and the fact that it isn't leads me to believe that the thing is broken. Later on that run, I let the THM heal instead....with a sac 2...after GLA used 3 vokes and 2 ws...and the THM got 1 shotted. Cures shouldn't be bringing in that much hate.

Oh give me a break man stop making excuses. There's a ton of enmity skills and just because provoke isn't auto-hate doesn't mean it's broken. Tell your tank to get a clue and rank some subs.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Oh give me a break man stop making excuses. There's a ton of enmity skills and just because provoke isn't auto-hate doesn't mean it's broken. Tell your tank to get a clue and rank some subs.

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You honestly must have a problem reading. 3!!!!!!!!! provokes and 2!!!!!!!!! weapon skills (of course with the addition of a few AA hits) That should at least be enough to hold hate from a freaking Sac 2 -.- Stop being a jerk and read for once.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

You honestly must have a problem reading. 3!!!!!!!!! provokes and 2!!!!!!!!! weapon skills (of course with the addition of a few AA hits) That should at least be enough to hold hate from a freaking Sac 2 -.- Stop being a jerk and read for once.

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No you don't read - Provoke doesn't work like that anymore, and weapon skills? Weapon skills? Try:

Heavy Slash
Heavy Stab
Accomplice
Taunt
Disorient
Warmonger
War Drum
(and let me guess, he doesn't use intimidation)


Just off the top of my head. Don't even think you can talk about hate because your tank lacks.

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Originally Posted by Raze

No you don't read - Provoke doesn't work like that anymore, and weapon skills? Weapon skills? Try:

Heavy Slash
Heavy Stab
Accomplice
Taunt
Disorient
Warmonger
War Drum

Just off the top of my head. Don't even think you can talk about hate because your tank lacks.

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how does provoke not work like provoke anymore? If provoke doesn't work like provoke, then it is broken. Derp.
Again, 3 of them should have been enough to hold the hate from a single sac 2 and it wasn't so the ENM generation from cures is much too high.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

how does provoke not work like provoke anymore? If provoke doesn't work like provoke, then it is broken. Derp.
Again, 3 of them should have been enough to hold the hate from a single sac 2 and it wasn't so the ENM generation from cures is much too high.

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From update notes:
"Provoke, Provoke II - No longer automatically forces the enemy to temporarily target the caster"

3 provokes and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

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Originally Posted by Raze

From update notes:
"Provoke, Provoke II - No longer automatically forces the enemy to temporarily target the caster"

3 provokes and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

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Provoke is used to raise the hate meter. 3 of them alone should have been enough to hold hate from only a sac 2. It can't, which means that provoke no longer acts like provoke which means that it is broken.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Provoke is used to raise the hate meter. 3 of them alone should have been enough to hold hate from only a sac 2. It can't, which means that provoke no longer acts like provoke which means that it is broken.

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Well damn, looks like you're never gonna win :/ since it's broken, that's the reason, right?

I'm gonna play the game for a while ^^ have fun emobleeding all over forums!

There is no way that SE needs to do anything to nerf the dungeon, Ogre is incredibly easy once u know the strat and have competent players who can execute. We are now farming the end boss with an occasional fail mixed in with final boss which is perfect. Just give it time to learn and figure fights out. Soon as they nerf it more players will be bored with it and says this game is so ez mode again.