Regarding the Atmas, yes, another one of those.

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Originally Posted by Renik

don't cut the sentence, the other part is important to understand my point <.<

Grind = good, boring grind = bad, grind must be fun or at least rewarding, in this game it's just annoying and the reward is useless.

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I cut it off because I couldn't fit the rest with what wanted to say, and the rest of your post really wasn't much different...Some people enjoy certain content, others don't. To each their own. The Atma grind sucks, I never really questioned that even as I was doing it. I won't judge you for not liking it or other aspects of the game, so I made what I thought was a good suggestion. Why stick around if you're not happy with how things are?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Why stick around if you're not happy with how things are?

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Mostly because of the social aspect of the game, but if i'm still paying it, it's just because i'm seeing changes, no one suspected something like atma farming could happen in this game before the 2.1 update.

As you said fun is a relative term, well, i have fun playing easy and hard content with others in open world, and soloing hard content in instances, looks like SE is working to satisfy my tastes, a provably others'.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

well putting aside the silliness from a lore perspective, it just isn't a challenge running in and wiping level 10-40ish FATEs with a dozen other people. It's mindless busy work designed to gate us from... more busy work? Put the content behind difficult bosses, put the content behind a series of dungeons, make us assemble a golden monkey whose parts are hidden in secret locations, just about anything would be more fun than battling the RNG twelve times.

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Don't misunderstand I'm 100% agreeing with you. FFXI and EQ had epic weapon quests. And while they took just as long (and sure had some "sit and wait" portions that were not hard) the challenges you faced through most of it was on the scale of a epic weapon. Were apparently gaining the crystallized power of level 4 mobs to power our weapon? How about some crystallized power from a powerful undead king in a crypt. Or from a dragon. etc etc.

The fact that apparently this super weapon of legend can be done by a single person half afk... Is the street urchin from Ul'Dah going to get his Novus soon?

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Originally Posted by EpicCid

No one enjoys grinding for atma. Some of just look at it differently. SE figured out a way to get people to sign in and play for days on end while before atma, people logged in for a couple hours one day a week for coil. If you don't like it but keep playing regardless, how does that hurt SE? I do wonder how many empty threats have been made by people on here saying they will quit and what percentage they truly make up of the whole.

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Except it has done the opposite for me, I've been less inclined to log in due to the lack of progress on MY FIRST weapon. Yes I could farm Primals for their drops, except I don't care for the extreme fights(not my cup of tea) so telling me to go get me a levi weapon is pointless. The on going weapon quest was SUPPOSE to be something that you would work on over time, adding a quest that could potentially NEVER END due to how RNG works is a very terrible way run a quest. If they had done the Atma section much differently I highly doubt we'd see so many threads complaining about it. They either should have spread Atmas out to more content (say duty roulette and or beastman dailies) and upped the drop rate to more that 1% or implemented a progression bar. Leave the terrible RNG to the uber weapons done in instanced fights -_-

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Originally Posted by Black_Wing

Except it has done the opposite for me, I've been less inclined to log in due to the lack of progress on MY FIRST weapon. Yes I could farm Primals for their drops, except I don't care for the extreme fights(not my cup of tea) so telling me to go get me a levi weapon is pointless.

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Thing is...you basically stated yourself you're purposefully not seeking other options - So in reality, it's not pointless to tell you to get a leviathan weapon because that's an alternative SE created for people who can't stand/won't do Novus grinding.

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Originally Posted by Black_Wing

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My question to you is then why do you want the weapon? You don't do any content that needs over an i80 weapon if you aren't doing ex primals(meaning you aren't doing second coil either). there is literally nothing in this game right now that YOU would make really use of by havin gthis weapons over an i90/i95 wpn.You can do levi hes super easy, stop being lazy, you can do coil turn 5 which is also super easy, you can do coil turn 7 and soon you can do CT and hunts.You want this weapon but have no nead for it. EX primals are easy, they just take practice. if they aren't your "cup of tea" then how can anything in this game be? I mean that's all that exist, Coil and ex primals

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Thing is...you basically stated yourself you're purposefully not seeking other options - So in reality, it's not pointless to tell you to get a leviathan weapon because that's an alternative SE created for people who can't stand/won't do Novus grinding.

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To be fair the alternatives are also a grind. For me I am still trying because of lore reasons. The relic goes with the role you play and represents it to me. There is no do something else, because either way you'll be grinding. Speaking of which when it's the same for everyone I can get behind the defenders.

But when you start at 400 fates or lower and then push up to 1k with not even five Atma what can be said? Well you might say, SE wanted it to be long. My reply to that would be it is long FOR ME and the other unfortunate people. Grinding for a week or 2 and having gotten all Atma can people like this really not let us complain? I have been grinding since 2.2 off an on and all I have to look forward to is the 3k vanity top/a lvl 10 chocobo at the end of it all whilst other people smile ear to ear and tell me "you just want this now."

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

To be fair the alternatives are also a grind. For me I am still trying because of lore reasons. The relic goes with the role you play and represents it to me. There is no do something else, because either way you'll be grinding. Speaking of which when it's the same for everyone I can get behind the defenders.

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Exactly, you're grinding either way, at least with the other 2 options (including Turn 5 and Turn 9) you're guaranteed to see drops of some kind, the only issue with Leviathan is going to Tidal Wave. This is an MMO afterall, you're never escaping a grind for what you want - especially if what you want is a top weapon/piece of gear. Leviathan at least you're much more likely to see a weapon for even alt classes than you are a novus for all of your classes.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

What's fun to you won't always be fun to someone else. When you decide to dedicate to an MMORPG or any kind of RPG that has actual goals you're expected to put in time and effort, it's not always going to be "fun". Hildebrand quests were fun, guess how long that content lasted?

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Like I said, I don't usually use that argument, because I know how subjective it is. But really, look at how much much effort goes into making a weapon that is, at best, the 4th-best weapon available at the moment.

Atma grind was bad? I agree, that's why I didn't feel like doing it again after doing it, till sufficient time has passed and feel like doing that fate grinding again... Novus grind? Even worse, so bad I only forced myself to do the start quests to actually start getting whatever you need... and then told it to get lost, what I already felt like hence the ''forced myself''.

I can do grinds, I got a animus in about a week after starting the whole thing. 10th of April to be precise, could of done it earlier and also if I started it earlier would of had it earlier... So yeah I'm sure I can do grinds but Novus is just bad and I wont ever touch it till they trivialize it, if don't then so be it just means I'll be ignoring the existence of the Zodiac weapon questline after animus. >.>

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Originally Posted by Kyro

So yeah I'm sure I can do grinds but Novus is just bad and I wont ever touch it till they trivialize it, if don't then so be it just means I'll be ignoring the existence of the Zodiac weapon questline after animus. >.>

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What exactly is being a grind about Novus? Doing a daily Quest? You are aware that you don't have to spend myth on Novus, beside buying the scroll? Or getting the Materia? Buy it or SB it.. neither is a grind really close to Animus Books or Atma Fates.

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Originally Posted by Nero

What exactly is being a grind about Novus? Doing a daily Quest? You are aware that you don't have to spend myth on Novus, beside buying the scroll? Or getting the Materia? Buy it or SB it.. neither is a grind really close to Animus Books or Atma Fates.

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At least we agree about something.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Not quite sure what you mean by the "good old times". You mean in the last 6 years or so? I can tell you for a fact that 10 years ago at most, we still had grinds in MMORPGs that required way more time investment with NO ALTERNATIVES. The "good old times" would probably fit pre-mainstream mentality of the player base than the current. The amount of luck, time investment, and social aptitude needed for even the times of D&D, which dates back a lot farther than 10 years, puts today's "grind" to complete shame.

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D & D? Does not even compare. Pen and paper D & D sessions were the most fun I had gaming.
Oh, MMO games use so much technology and art (not to mention money). They create wondrous virtual worlds. And what do you do all the time in these worlds?

Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Kill that wicked Giant Rat.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than before. Kill it in Hard Mode.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than ever. Kill it in Extreme Mode.

and so on and so on, for YEARS. This is not gaming, this is doing daily chores. Why millions of people (including myself!) wilfully subject themselves to this torment, and even pay for the privilege, is one of the great mysteries of our civilisation. :P

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

D & D? Does not even compare. Pen and paper D & D sessions were the most fun I had gaming.
Oh, MMO games use so much technology and art (not to mention money). They create wondrous virtual worlds. And what do you do all the time in these worlds?

Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Kill that wicked Giant Rat.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than before. Kill it in Hard Mode.
Kill ten rats.
Gather twenty apples.
Oh, that Giant Rat just returned, more wicked than ever. Kill it in Extreme Mode.

and so on and so on, for YEARS. This is not gaming, this is doing daily chores. Why millions of people (including myself!) wilfully subject themselves to this torment, and even pay for the privilege, is one of the great mysteries of our civilisation. :P

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I agree with you on the monotony that a lot of games have (not just MMORPGs). This is actually something that a game like FFXI did right, IMO. Their quests, while extremely cryptic and sometimes next to impossible without some form of direction, generally weren't generic fetch/kill quests. A lot of them had some deeper meaning or some method about it that separates it from the norm. Then again, quests didn't give you any exp or weren't relied on for the majority of things, so /shrug lol.

I think it's just common because of the functionality it serves. To those of us that have MMORPG experience, we are fully familiar with them, and we understand that (usually) they're a fast source of leveling up... and we all know how impatient the player base is to do anything at all. For new players, it's a source of getting accustomed to the game. Understanding the rules behind quest progression, basics of how to play the game, and not an overwhelming introduction to the world of MMORPGs.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I feel like the first relic request is an example of a good alternative. It forces you through trials - granted they're not very difficult at this point, but at least they're varied - not through a grind.

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Haha, funny
the real first relict quest was this:

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1: Get 25,000 Company Seals and get key item.
2: Start Quest with Rowena
3: Get 3 hamlet seals from each hamlet
4: Choose weapon quest.
5: Craft class weapon
6: Double meld with needed materia
7: Kill NM from stronghold
8: Get 3 restorative metals from CC/AV
9: Get unfinished weapon.
10: Raise spiritbond to 100%
11: Defeat Leve NM with unfinished weapon.
12: Defeat both primals.
13: Turn in quest.

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Point 3 and 10 were grinds (people complaining about ATMA never did hamlet grind)
Point 8 was a grind if your group couldn't do a 17 minute speedrun (100% dropchance within 17 minutes, 1% if it needed longer).

The relict quest you mean is a watered down version

I dunno about OP, but I loved the atma quest. It was a nice lazy grind when I had nothing to do. Got all 12 in a week or two? The myth books seemed like they'd be a pain but with DR it's not as bad as I thought.

I wish there were more hidden items or what have you spread around the world that you could farm or randomly get while killing mobs.