Cristal Tower 2 useless?

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

"each lala should twerk all the time"

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Twerk Emote OR RIOT!!!!

I had a twerk emote(macro) when I was hyur lowlander, unfortunately kitty's don't know how to twerk.

Just because the gear is a slightly better side grade does not make it more useful. AGAIN if you already sporting the i100 gear their is no side grade that is going to make a difference enough for you to clear a turn. Sand/oil can make a difference of you progressing in the game, but a side grade will not.

Also it sounds like dragoons haven't bought soldier gear because they were waiting out for high allagan? that does not make CT useful for you it just means you can stop being lazy? many of the soldier gear sucks for blm but it's still slightly better then the i90 version unless you are going to overmeld some i90 pieces. a side grade is still a side grade, just because it's a better side grade does not make it 10x more useful esp when you have to look at it as gear that you will be replacing possible that same day. I'm excited for new pants and i'm excited for CT the dungeon. The one use it had was giving players the sand/oil. Players already have access to 2 i95wpns, and 2 i100 wpns; coil players get a third i100 weapon. ramuh makes 4; we don't need more i100 weapons that were meant for people in coil, being maid available to everyone while all the other weapons/mirrors ect stays super rare for no reason. we need more gear choices that will be of use. accessories are always in short supply while we have way too much actual gear. If ramuh drops something other the rings, we are screwed, if he drops more then 1 accessory we are super screwed for farming. I just don't want CT to be dead after 1-2 months just like it was last time.

This is why I don't monotonously grind dungeons. Dungeons kill this game. You spend all that time facerolling Brayflox and now you can't even enjoy CT2. I stopped grinding out Soldiery cause I realized I was ruining the game for myself.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

Not every piece of soldiery has stats I like for my job. Options = good

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Never said options were bad. Adding in sidegrades months later is. Think what you want but changing a couple pieces around to get "bis" stats will have very little impact on your effectiveness FFXIV is much more about doing proper rotations than it is having 10 more crit and 10 less skill speed.

And considering the content people who would still care about this gear is tuned for ilvl 70? (or is it 65) dungeons they can already clear in under 15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

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So much aggressivity and you don't even know me. To be clear, its useless in terms of character upgrade if you have been playing casually since 2.2.

Your arguments are pretty flawed too
A) the only sidegrades needed are when you need ACC cap IF you want to do SCOB, for other casual content its actually not needed at all and others secondaries wont transcend the way your job is performing. And by definition a sidegrade is not an upgrade.
B) This one is a valid point
C) You shouldnt need a tomestome weapon for your main job if you have been doing the zodiac saga
D) Diversity i guess, until it will become a troll fest and you'll prefer other ways to get Myth and Soldiery
E) I don't think "dungeon" are a good way to make money. You can make so much more by doing other things
F) Definetely the first few times, but theres is less incentive in the long run.

And i would add
G) Gearing alts jobs

To sum up you totally missed the point i wanted to convey. Of course there will be things to do in CT2 but not for upgrading your main job.

Now it will be intersting to know when Sands will be added to the loot pool since to get you gear fully upgraded, you'll need 10 weeks and 2.4 will surely see the rise in iLvl.

Images of CT2 Armor Sets, courtesy of the CT2 Armor thread:

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/p...wers/ss_04.png

I think they look really classy! I do want that Amon Jacket!

I would think that the Amon set would be for Tanks.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

Your arguments are pretty flawed too
A) the only sidegrades needed are when you need ACC cap IF you want to do SCOB, for other casual content its actually not needed at all and others secondaries wont transcend the way your job is performing. And by definition a sidegrade is not an upgrade.
B) This one is a valid point
C) You shouldnt need a tomestome weapon for your main job if you have been doing the zodiac saga
D) Diversity i guess, until it will become a troll fest and you'll prefer other ways to get Myth and Soldiery
E) I don't think "dungeon" are a good way to make money. You can make so much more by doing other things
F) Definetely the first few times, but theres is less incentive in the long run.

And i would add
G) Gearing alts jobs

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A) A sidegrade with better itemization IS an upgrade. If on warrior I can replace Skill speed with ANY OTHER STAT then it is an upgrade. Having a matching iLvl is not a good reason to discount this gear before you've even seen the stats.
B) Yup
C) Not everyone wastes days and days of time for that weapon. This is another option for people that don't want to do that. Do not expect people to have the zodiac weapon especially considering the time sink. Besides more options are better and you can't possibly disagree with that. Saving three weeks of soldiery and grabbing one CT drop is way easier and you know it.
D) Trolls or not are unimportant. Soldiery and Myth are still rewards. It's still a reason to do the dungeon.
E) I didn't say it was a lot, or the best way to make money. It is a way to make money regardless and as such can be a reason to do it.
F) Subjective.

G) Yup I agree completely.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

To sum up you totally missed the point i wanted to convey. Of course there will be things to do in CT2 but not for upgrading your main job.

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If I was just now starting to work on my main jobs, maybe I just joined or resubbed, then yes many of those things would be good for your main job. You need to remember that everyone in the game isn't at the same level you may be. Also, even if you've been playing the whole time you could potentially still need A, C, D, E, F listed above.

You're being overly critical and expecting everyone else to have their main job to the same level as you. Well they don't. You aren't the archetype for which all development should be focused on. Much of this content has valid uses for many players main jobs including those who run coil. I personally am practicing T9 right now, but I've received all of two drops the entire time. I got the Tank boots and bracelet. The soldiery tank gear has terrible itemization making me extremely interested in the stats on the new i100 pieces since I have a long way to go before I'll have 110 in each slot from the coil and sands. My story alone refutes what you say about the drops being useless for end game. You are not everyone.

I agree with Tiggy. I have all of the Daystar pieces for my healers, but the main body pieces are really only great for scholar. They sort of hinder my white mage a bit.

Number one, all the crit on my white mage sometimes causes aggro issues. Not to mention the fact I lost over 40 points of piety when I upgraded from Cleric gear to Daystar. I'm hoping the new CT2 healer gear will be more attuned to white mages, stat wise.

Solution: make the new CT2 gear also Weathered. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

This is why I don't monotonously grind dungeons. Dungeons kill this game. You spend all that time facerolling Brayflox and now you can't even enjoy CT2. I stopped grinding out Soldiery cause I realized I was ruining the game for myself.

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I feel you, but that's a major part of the content that the devs have provided: grinding tomestomes. You can do it at a slower pace, but grinding myth for books and soldiery for gear is a big part of the to dos for a lot of people during the week.

I don't actually farm myth for books, since the Atma weapon is too grindy atm for my tastes.

You could always do it for, I dunno, fun? You remember fun don't you?

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Solution: make the new CT2 gear also Weathered. Think about it.

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You never know, it just might be.

Crystal

10 letters

Do you all really have that specific of roles with your friends/FC/within yourself? I am a MNK main but I know how to play PLD, WAR, and SCH well, and and getting better an SMN. I am going to jump at the chance for i100 weaps/armor pieces for my alt chars so that I can be more diverse in my ability to play different roles with my friends.

I think its a great idea, and I will be happy to see sands/oils come in for my MNK.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Do you all really have that specific of roles with your friends/FC/within yourself? I am a MNK main but I know how to play PLD, WAR, and SCH well, and and getting better an SMN. I am going to jump at the chance for i100 weaps/armor pieces for my alt chars so that I can be more diverse in my ability to play different roles with my friends.

I think its a great idea, and I will be happy to see sands/oils come in for my MNK.

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Exactly! Raid for my Main, Soldiery and CT2 for my alts

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Do you all really have that specific of roles with your friends/FC/within yourself? I am a MNK main but I know how to play PLD, WAR, and SCH well, and and getting better an SMN. I am going to jump at the chance for i100 weaps/armor pieces for my alt chars so that I can be more diverse in my ability to play different roles with my friends.

I think its a great idea, and I will be happy to see sands/oils come in for my MNK.

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If there was content challenging enough to use it in sure. Sadly anything outside of coil2 is tuned for like ilvl 70. Being already 20-30 levels over the content there really isn't much room for doing it any faster. Already have times when stuff dies too fast for cooldowns. Any faster and I'll be doing the same overall because of having less cooldown burn cycles.

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Originally Posted by Arakatos

Exactly! Raid for my Main, Soldiery and CT2 for my alts

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Pretty sure that's i110 gear i've been getting for my alts from raiding 2nd coil.

Also, you might want to go take look at everyone in Mor Dhona hanging around on their alts with High Allagan Weapons.

Without Sands or Unidentified Tomestones (easier access to i100 weapons and equipment upgrades for alts), the incentive for anyone in a static raid group to pop in to CT2 is pretty much non existent.

Similar thread. Solution included.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Similar thread. Solution included.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...threads/175871

Whoops.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

If there was content challenging enough to use it in sure. Sadly anything outside of coil2 is tuned for like ilvl 70. Being already 20-30 levels over the content there really isn't much room for doing it any faster. Already have times when stuff dies too fast for cooldowns. Any faster and I'll be doing the same overall because of having less cooldown burn cycles.

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You're referring to (partly) CT right? Regardless of what ilvl intent it has behind it, CT will never be seen as "challenging" in the same light as Coil. Since its release, it was never designed to be difficult content in to the same degree. Likewise, anything else outside of Coil is never going to be on that same level (at least in the near future). Maybe they'll eventually release a Brutal version of some 4-man dungeons, or a challenge mode of sorts that caps ilvl while raising difficulty. But as far as CT is concerned, which is the point of topic, it's definitely the wrong source to be looking at for challenge (besides overcoming your fellow players).

I'm looking forward to the probable crying to come with Brutal Coil2, and hoping that if it ends up being practically unbeatable (maybe due to higher ilvl needs), it relatively stays that way lol. Of course, if a fully BiS geared raid with optimal job setup isn't capable for months, then maybe a small nerf is needed... or maybe they'll leave it alone as higher ilvl gear is made available, which probably would result in Brutal modes being beaten.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You're referring to (partly) CT right? Regardless of what ilvl intent it has behind it, CT will never be seen as "challenging" in the same light as Coil. Since its release, it was never designed to be difficult content in to the same degree. Likewise, anything else outside of Coil is never going to be on that same level (at least in the near future). Maybe they'll eventually release a Brutal version of some 4-man dungeons, or a challenge mode of sorts that caps ilvl while raising difficulty. But as far as CT is concerned, which is the point of topic, it's definitely the wrong source to be looking at for challenge (besides overcoming your fellow players).

I'm looking forward to the probable crying to come with Brutal Coil2, and hoping that if it ends up being practically unbeatable (maybe due to higher ilvl needs), it relatively stays that way lol. Of course, if a fully BiS geared raid with optimal job setup isn't capable for months, then maybe a small nerf is needed... or maybe they'll leave it alone as higher ilvl gear is made available, which probably would result in Brutal modes being beaten.

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Not exactly. I mean sure CT is included but I was mostly responding to Ehayte's statement about CT gear being useful for alts to do things with friends (which since these can't include Coil 2 must be hard dungeons, primals, and Coil 1). All of which are already FAR below the gear all our alts should have been in for months by now. Being in ilvl 100 or 110 gear isn't going to really help.


IMO Brutal coil is fairly worthless. While I welcome the challenge the reality is were going to beat on it for a couple nights then go do normal to get our loots for the week since they share lockouts.

Now if brutal was a 16 man version on a separate lockout and a higher difficulty level... HELL YES.


Really I really hope they DON'T put in "raid" 4 man content. Raid gear is already accessible without actually raiding (come CT2). It doesn't need to get worse. I just hope they add in MORE raid content. 4 events that are only 8 people is not near enough. If your farming them its less than an hour of content a week.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Not exactly. I mean sure CT is included but I was mostly responding to Ehayte's statement about CT gear being useful for alts to do things with friends (which since these can't include Coil 2 must be hard dungeons, primals, and Coil 1). All of which are already FAR below the gear all our alts should have been in for months by now. Being in ilvl 100 or 110 gear isn't going to really help.


IMO Brutal coil is fairly worthless. While I welcome the challenge the reality is were going to beat on it for a couple nights then go do normal to get our loots for the week since they share lockouts.

Now if brutal was a 16 man version on a separate lockout and a higher difficulty level... HELL YES.

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Ahh I see. Well, to be fair, the game is barely past its infancy stage as far as expectations go. Some might say it's still in it. We've seen more (additional) content release in this game than practically any of its MMORPG predecessors in the short time. They still need to focus on bringing out the new content that is designed for the player base as a whole, before they can focus on adjusting the difficulty of new release goods for the much more dedicated/hardcore base.

I highly doubt we're going to see much, or any, 16man content in the near future. Even in games like WoW, putting together 25 people is next to impossible for the majority of players outside of their LFR system. Heck, it's difficult to put together a team of 10 players even... we see difficulty in putting together a dedicated 8-player team in this game. While that might be unfortunate for some, you can't really fault them on the lack of focus for this sort of content just yet.

I will also say that they sort of shot themselves in the foot with the quick ilvl jumps, when it comes to this difficulty want. I suppose that's to be expected though if that was their intent (to essentially make the player quickly overpower content and have that empowered feel).

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I highly doubt we're going to see much, or any, 16man content in the near future. Even in games like WoW, putting together 25 people is next to impossible for the majority of players outside of their LFR system. Heck, it's difficult to put together a team of 10 players even... we see difficulty in putting together a dedicated 8-player team in this game. While that might be unfortunate for some, you can't really fault them on the lack of focus for this sort of content just yet.

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It is harder to put together a 8 man team than it is for a 30-40-50 man team. And I will explain why.

EQ. 15 year old game. 54 man raids are NO problem.

1. Raids tuned for more people are easier to do a man or 2 down

---example with our current setup say 1 dps misses. Even if we could zone in with 7 realistically each of the 3 remaining increasing their dps by 33% to account for the missing 4th is unrealistic. Now lets look at having 8 dps and 1 missing. each only has to increase their dps by 14%. The larger the raid the easier it is to account for people missing.

2. The larger the raid the more realistic it is to have a bench*

---With current 8 man raids having even a 3 man bench (a tank, dps, and healer) isn't very realistic.. because well that's almost half of ANOTHER raid group.


*really we would need MORE raids too though to have a bench because asking someone to rotate out with the benched player for 1 event when theres only 4 is a lot harder than saying "hey there are 14 raids mind sitting for this 1 fight to let Soandso in?"

3. You can have 1-2 weaker players (or new players) and due to #1 still succeed. Which allows experienced raid groups to train new players that can then go on to join/create other raid groups. As it is now you can't realistically say "ok guys were taking this ilvl 90 ______ into 6-9 this week"... You would wipe horribly. It is very unrealistic to expect your raid to 7 man all the events (3 dps, 1 tank, or 1 heal).



I find it VERY ironic that the game is SUPER casual (really... content is tuned for as much as 30 ilvls below what the content actually provides) but soon as you hit coil it's more hardcore than any MMO out there because due to the small raid size all 8 people have to be PERFECT or you fail. Where if raids were 16/24 man you could have a couple 90% players and still get through due to the reasons above.


Also I dunno where putting together 25 man teams is next to impossible comes from. Couple FC members and I decided to try out WoW for something to do and its taken us about 2 weeks to get raid ready and there are pugs everywhere.

Rift was the same way you could find pug groups easily and static raid groups even easier.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You are not everyone.

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You're doing exactly the same by assuming people will need or actually want better itemization on secondary stat because you're doing SCOB. Truth to be told, its not necessary anywhere else and even there, beside Accuracy, anything else is a really minor improvement and even not needed when it can be done in a relatively lower iLvl than the max one.

And no, if you've been playing for a while you won't need C,D,E,F for your main job ( i'm bolding it again since obviously you're omitting that the main point of my argumentation). I think your main grip is actually how my thread title is formulated, i didn't mean Crystal tower will be useless at all, i did mean they won't be any incentive to go there for your main job if you have been playing actively it and actually doing the content we got presented. And that include the zodiac questline, because why people who took the time to do it should be punished now? I'm not saying to remove tomestone from the drop, i'm saying they should have left both oil and sand too from the start.

So of course i know not everyone is like me, but a bunch of people are , so why should our enjoyement be delayed? Wouldn't it be better if everyone could fine something interesting in Crystal tower for him/her as soon as patch 2.3 is out?

PS: For you information, the soldiery caster set for summoner has terrible itemization too but i don't find any incentive to run something over and over for a 0.5% increase in performance.

Really Crystal Tower should be coming out before Coil instead of after. It seems like it's forever backtracking. Hard to get excited about gear that's obsolete before it even exists.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Really Crystal Tower should be coming out before Coil instead of after. It seems like it's forever backtracking. Hard to get excited about gear that's obsolete before it even exists.

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Yeah, while I don't do Coil at all I agree with this. I'd imagine they will set the record straight with the expansion, but who knows.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Really Crystal Tower should be coming out before Coil instead of after. It seems like it's forever backtracking. Hard to get excited about gear that's obsolete before it even exists.

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That was kinda the original plan, CT was supposed to help gear for Coil on launch and relics were even mentioned as a requirement just to get access to CT back then. Then CT got delayed because it was "too hard" aka it wasn't finished on time for release and everything went downhill from there.

i wonder if we are going to wait hours for fate spawn like the last time, i was one on the first to enter ct and we waited long for fates to spawn XD

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

It is harder to put together a 8 man team than it is for a 30-40-50 man team. And I will explain why.

EQ. 15 year old game. 54 man raids are NO problem.

1. Raids tuned for more people are easier to do a man or 2 down

---example with our current setup say 1 dps misses. Even if we could zone in with 7 realistically each of the 3 remaining increasing their dps by 33% to account for the missing 4th is unrealistic. Now lets look at having 8 dps and 1 missing. each only has to increase their dps by 14%. The larger the raid the easier it is to account for people missing.

2. The larger the raid the more realistic it is to have a bench*

---With current 8 man raids having even a 3 man bench (a tank, dps, and healer) isn't very realistic.. because well that's almost half of ANOTHER raid group.


*really we would need MORE raids too though to have a bench because asking someone to rotate out with the benched player for 1 event when theres only 4 is a lot harder than saying "hey there are 14 raids mind sitting for this 1 fight to let Soandso in?"

3. You can have 1-2 weaker players (or new players) and due to #1 still succeed. Which allows experienced raid groups to train new players that can then go on to join/create other raid groups. As it is now you can't realistically say "ok guys were taking this ilvl 90 ______ into 6-9 this week"... You would wipe horribly. It is very unrealistic to expect your raid to 7 man all the events (3 dps, 1 tank, or 1 heal).



I find it VERY ironic that the game is SUPER casual (really... content is tuned for as much as 30 ilvls below what the content actually provides) but soon as you hit coil it's more hardcore than any MMO out there because due to the small raid size all 8 people have to be PERFECT or you fail. Where if raids were 16/24 man you could have a couple 90% players and still get through due to the reasons above.


Also I dunno where putting together 25 man teams is next to impossible comes from. Couple FC members and I decided to try out WoW for something to do and its taken us about 2 weeks to get raid ready and there are pugs everywhere.

Rift was the same way you could find pug groups easily and static raid groups even easier.

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Sorry, I was referring to a static 25-man group for raids. PUGs are always available, because of no commitment needs, but practically all endgame guilds/FCs would rather have the consistency of fellow members than some random joe that you don't know. There's just too much of an issue of liability when you invite pugs to something. Relying on the commitment of 24/25 people is next to impossible for most people these days. There will always be folks out there that won't have that problem, but pick any random person from a crowd and ask them if they'd be able to easily have 24 others commit, and the odds are quite low that they'd respond positively. Mentality of the general player base has changed drastically, and it's actually a little uncommon to find people that will commit or dedicate themselves to a raid time.

I agree about the difficulty of the content for raids that require lower numbers, as there's far more responsibility involved that results from the fact that there isn't much backup available, but what I was getting at was that it is way easier to find 7 friends/members to do things as a group, than it is to find 15, 23, etc of them. Just the set up of it is a prime factor (among a sea of other reasons) of why raids see lower participation. The difficulty can also be a deterrent, but it's not exactly the scariest thing when you do it with people you know. The history of other MMORPGs point that the higher the body count is for requirements to raid, the lower the participation becomes. It's true that sometimes it's because of the difficulty, but I know for a fact that it's also because people just don't have the numbers for it. WoW, with Kara as a prime example, saw a HUGE spike in raid participation once they got rid of 40man raids... with Kara being the most done raid during its time at 10man content, whereas the 25man stuff, while still popular, didn't hit the same degree of participation.

What I don't like is the lack of Sands/Oils from the start, mostly because it's going to be an even bigger problem than it is now. People are acquiring Soldiery pieces MUCH faster than there is Sand/Oil available - even for perfect raiders. Most everyone is sitting with a ton of weathered pieces and the queue to upgrade keeps getting longer and longer. CT offered a possible alternate supply for this, and so far its failing to deliver.

Right now, SCoB gives you 1 Sand/Oil a week, 2 if you can clear T9. There are 8 people in your group. If you are being fair, most players will only be seeing 1 Sand/Oil every 2 months, once a month if you can clear T9. I'd say a good average is that each job needs 3 Sands to get BiS. Most groups should barely be starting to get their second roll of sands if they managed to start clearing T8 in a timely fashion.

Now comes CT. The demand for sands (Even among groups that clear SCoB) is still high. Most everyone will hold on to their lots once sands become available. If they where released on par, some people might opt to get that one sidegrade that's an actual improvement instead. However, since its gonna be released later.. most everyone will already have the "other" pieces they want from CT, and there will only be demand for sands.

So what's going to happen? Full runs of wasted gear no one rolls on because everyone is holding out for sands. I honestly don't know how to make this situation better.

I do have to look back and have a good laugh at people who said there was no way CT2 would be i100, but instead i90 or i95.

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Originally Posted by kiraan

PS: For you information, the soldiery caster set for summoner has terrible itemization too but i don't find any incentive to run something over and over for a 0.5% increase in performance.

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Assuming of course your SMN set is full soldiery gear.

Did we really need 12 pages to prove the OP wrong with one little three-letter word?

"Fun"

makes nothing useless in this game. If it's fun, you don't worry about the rewards not being the best available. If it's not fun, you need to ask yourself why you're even playing.