Cash shops: Whats wrong with you?

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I don't mind them charging extra to change character appearance because that's a standard thing in most other MMOs, but I won't support this game if they put things on the Mogstation that can't otherwise be obtained with my normal subscription. People asking for costumes and pets and stuff in the Mogstation, EVERYONE should have access to those, not those willing to spend extra. With all the whining from people who weren't able/didn't want to play this game while the Lightning events were going on, almost wouldn't be surprised with enough pushing that SE puts the costumes up there.

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I have a Dalamud minion, do you?

I'm getting a migraine just reading some of these posts

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Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan

I'm getting a migraine just reading some of these posts

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Welcome to FFXIV forums :)

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Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan

I'm getting a migraine just reading some of these posts

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I don't even know why this is worth discussing. Server transfers and changing your character are VERY common things to pay for. Many subscription MMOs have those with very, very few other things able to buy if any at all. It's not a sign of anything other than ARR sticking to its current damned model.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

I don't even know why this is worth discussing. Server transfers and changing your character are VERY common things to pay for. Many subscription MMOs have those with very, very few other things able to buy if any at all. It's not a sign of anything other than ARR sticking to its current damned model.

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Well to be honest this is my very first MMO. But I am aware of the concept of p2p and f2P.
My opinion honestly is I don't really care if they charge people to change their race/gender/world transfer. I'm fine with that. But I'll be kinda disappointed with them if expand on this cash shop jazz and make people pay for stuff when we are already paying as it is. We all pay the same amount so we all should have the same opportunity to get stuff. AKA gear,etc, etc. So I'll draw the line there. You can pay to change your gender/race as many times as you want. That's your business.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

"yawn" same ol same ol

I wasn't even trying to "enlighten" anyone, you are.

vanity gear was merely an example, not the core of the discussion.

I was merely questioning your claims that absolutely everything in the cash shop are originally meant to be given free, which we all know isn't necessarily true, you are the one trying to convince us that it is as you've said but somehow is unable to provide anything to support your claims other than your own words.

in short, its merely your personal opinion, not fact.

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My opinion as you put it is based on common sense and my observations of what has happened to many mmos over the years. SE already received a ton of complaints back in 1.0 over the stamina system it had for a while that slowed down people's ability to level up among even more pettier things. If people are going to complain and quit the game over something that merely made the leveling in a mmo take longer than they wanted then of course there's going to be complaints and lost subscriptions over something that charges extra for content that they've been giving for just the sub fee up until this point.

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Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan

Well to be honest this is my very first MMO. But I am aware of the concept of p2p and f2P.
My opinion honestly is I don't really care if they charge people to change their race/gender/world transfer. I'm fine with that. But I'll be kinda disappointed with them if expand on this cash shop jazz and make people pay for stuff when we are already paying as it is. We all pay the same amount so we all should have the same opportunity to get stuff. AKA gear,etc, etc. So I'll draw the line there. You can pay to change your gender/race as many times as you want. That's your business.

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Oh, I 100% agree with you. People are just acting like Fantasia is the end-times for this game, when it's a very basic service every MMO I have ever played makes you pay for.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

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Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan

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I have all but abandoned this thread in favour of a godzilla marathon and reading EVAgeeks forums posts however before i go completely i will just say i agree so much with these posts, my OP's point was that this game is not going ftp so stop listening to people like bloodclaw who are constantly trolling and telling everyone it will be and that the idea of a cash shop would just make them lose subs so it is not a sound business move

To keep a MMO healthy and not create gaps between players (the ones who play a lot and the ones who play rarely), you need to do something.

A) Make content easier, increase drop rates. That way casual players can catch up on old content.
B) Make cash shops sell armors/weapons. That way content can be made easier by purchasing stronger items.

It doesn't really matter which you do, as long as you do one of them. SE seem to be running with the first option, so cash shops aren't all too needed. You can just wait out the nerfs. But SE could have gone B route and actually made a penny, while still not changing how the players progress.

And as we all know, first alternative give you complaints that the game is being ruined for the minority of casuals who suck. And the latter alternative will make loud people yell P2W because someone can get the gear they no longer use because it is weak.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

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Said i was abandoning thread, never did, anyway i pick route a because despite all the complaining i do when i see nerfed content i still have FUN with it, a cash shop would just kill my interest in the game and any fun i would have with it.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Oh, I 100% agree with you. People are just acting like Fantasia is the end-times for this game, when it's a very basic service every MMO I have ever played makes you pay for.

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Never been a service available to me in any game. This is from the time I tried them or actively played them, of them it was FFXI, SWOTR, WOW and LOTR. Not sure on the name changing in wow, could have been there.

I think race and name should be a permanent choice in a game. World transfer I'm OK with.

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Said i was abandoning thread, never did, anyway i pick route a because despite all the complaining i do when i see nerfed content i still have FUN with it, a cash shop would just kill my interest in the game and any fun i would have with it.

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Agree, and would also make subs drop like mad IMO.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Never been a service available to me in any game. This is from the time I tried them or actively played them, of them it was FFXI, SWOTR, WOW and LOTR. Not sure on the name changing in wow, could have been there.

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This isn't like most games though. Here you are encouraged to make a single character and unlock the classes through that single toon. Other games encourage multiple toons which gives people the ability to play with multiple races, genders, and names.

Giving people the chance to play as a different gender and race isn't a problem, the problem is that they made it a one way, one time, change.

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Originally Posted by JatohCynn

This isn't like most games though. Here you are encouraged to make a single character and unlock the classes through that single toon. Other games encourage multiple toons which gives people the ability to play with multiple races, genders, and names.

Giving people the chance to play as a different gender and race isn't a problem, the problem is that they made it a one way, one time, change.

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I just think it cheapens the choices in a game if you can just go; Meh, I can just change it later.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

I just think it cheapens the choices in a game if you can just go; Meh, I can just change it later.

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In the case of race changes I'll use WoW as an example. I started in closed Beta as a Tauren hunter. I liked hunter but could never really get into the Tauren grove... Then BC came along and added the Blood Elves, at that time you couldn't change your race and I had to abandon all the progress I'd made on my Tauren to play the same class on a race I liked more. Fast forward to Mists which added a race I and many other had been wanting since before WoW even went live and, huzzah!, I didn't 't have to abandon all my progress to switch to a race I had wanted to play for years, just some money.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

..Like, say... a SOLDIER 1st Class set that makes a character dress up like Cloud from FFVII or something....

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For this example, why not just request SE to make it available in the game?
I don't know why someone would think cash shop will create more fun.
I just think cash shop would take away coming fun from existing design and sell it to you seperately.

Suppose SE has made the best, then where will be the "new elements" came from? Those elements should be provided with your monthly fee! ^^;

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

My opinion as you put it is based on common sense and my observations of what has happened to many mmos over the years. SE already received a ton of complaints back in 1.0 over the stamina system it had for a while that slowed down people's ability to level up among even more pettier things. If people are going to complain and quit the game over something that merely made the leveling in a mmo take longer than they wanted then of course there's going to be complaints and lost subscriptions over something that charges extra for content that they've been giving for just the sub fee up until this point.

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Look, you're still trying to package your personal opinion as fact with a twist of implying that those who doesn't agree with you lacks common sense :rolleyes:

we already have a cash shop (MogStation) we already have unique not available in-game minions (Dalamud Minion/Bahamut Minion) so you don't have issues with those?

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

To keep a MMO healthy and not create gaps between players (the ones who play a lot and the ones who play rarely), you need to do something.

A) Make content easier, increase drop rates. That way casual players can catch up on old content.
B) Make cash shops sell armors/weapons. That way content can be made easier by purchasing stronger items.

It doesn't really matter which you do, as long as you do one of them. SE seem to be running with the first option, so cash shops aren't all too needed. You can just wait out the nerfs. But SE could have gone B route and actually made a penny, while still not changing how the players progress.

And as we all know, first alternative give you complaints that the game is being ruined for the minority of casuals who suck. And the latter alternative will make loud people yell P2W because someone can get the gear they no longer use because it is weak.

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Not quoting you directly but don't confuse cash shops with P2W, perhaps the reason there is even an argument is perhaps because players doesn't like the name cash shop.

Take extra retainers for example, SE is charging for extra retainers because it took resources that doesn't come free, hence it is a system where players who wants those extra retainers would bear the cost of implementing it while others who doesn't care about extra retainers don't have to. If charging for extra retainers is a big no no, then we'd simply not get any extra retainers at all or at least not anytime soon, How is that better? It feels to me that some players are adopting a "if i can't have it, no one else should" mentality.

The false logic is the assumption that everything that are being sold separately is developed with the subscription revenue and that everything that are being sold separately will be implemented for free if there isn't a cash shop.

what has become of choices and options?

People DEMANDED fantasia. And offered to pay extra for it. Also, I don't think it's good for the server to have people changing race and gender rapidly.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

In the case of race changes I'll use WoW as an example. I started in closed Beta as a Tauren hunter. I liked hunter but could never really get into the Tauren grove... Then BC came along and added the Blood Elves, at that time you couldn't change your race and I had to abandon all the progress I'd made on my Tauren to play the same class on a race I liked more. Fast forward to Mists which added a race I and many other had been wanting since before WoW even went live and, huzzah!, I didn't 't have to abandon all my progress to switch to a race I had wanted to play for years, just some money.

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Case in point, detractors are advocating the removal of options and choices that affects our quality of life and enjoyment, it is really not as though the mere removal of cash shop would make such options freely available in game.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

For this example, why not just request SE to make it available in the game?
I don't know why someone would think cash shop will create more fun.
I just think cash shop would take away coming fun from existing design and sell it to you seperately.

Suppose SE has made the best, then where will be the "new elements" came from? Those elements should be provided with your monthly fee! ^^;

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Because it takes resources and time to develop such items? create 1 item and players would demand more, create more items and you'll take resources away from the development of new content patches. In short, there is a finite amount of resources the devs can tap on, if a producer can justify the creation of such content with a separate source of revenue, they can acquire more resources to do so.

Hence my point that not all cash shop items are meant to or will be freely included in a game's planned content patches, not all micro-transaction items are popular and are demanded by everyone, our monthly subscription is for the game and its planned content patches, it does not grant them unlimited resources, neither does it entitle us to everything with no regards of potential cost increases

Take the extra retainers for example, its really either implement it or simply scrap it and not have the option at all, those who are vehemently against micro-transactions are advocating for the latter.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Look, you're still trying to package your personal opinion as fact with a twist of implying that those who doesn't agree with you lacks common sense :rolleyes:

we already have a cash shop (MogStation) we already have unique not available in-game minions (Dalamud Minion/Bahamut Minion) so you don't have issues with those?

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Everything that's currently in that so called cash shop are services that have been part of the P2P model since before F2P mmos were ever created. In the case of the minions there's a difference between getting a small useless bonus item for buying real physical merchandise and the sort of crap that we'd have to deal with if there was a real cash shop. Small bonus items for physical merchandise are few and far between while content that would be stripped out to be put into a real cash shop would be many more items we'd be charged extra for and would come up more frequently.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

i wish there was a way to block you from posting..........

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can always set him to ignore list :D

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

For this example, why not just request SE to make it available in the game?
I don't know why someone would think cash shop will create more fun.
I just think cash shop would take away coming fun from existing design and sell it to you seperately.

Suppose SE has made the best, then where will be the "new elements" came from? Those elements should be provided with your monthly fee! ^^;

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I wish I could give you a hundred thumbs up.