Level Capped Dungeons: Please allow all skills learned.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Dragon Kick in first rotation and Bootshine in second rotation = more damage than Bootshine in both rotations. You also need to look to the special ability of the skills, not only to the potency.

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And yet, you still won't be one-shotting enemies like the person I quoted seems to want to believe. You'll do slightly more damage due to the Blunt debuff but the skills will still be scaled down.

I do concur that its frustrating as Monk to level sync. So many core skills are very high level for monk. So every time I que to some low level dungeon I have to completely reorganize my tool bar. Main reason I stopped rouletting on monk entirely.

How about making more cross class skills useful. Skull Sunder one DRG or PLD for instance.

Forget it! Why when content is already being facerolled completely by roulette players? Make the level sync more severe if anything ^_^

If you allow all skills to be used while level capped you may as well remove the level cap entirely! The point of level cap is to allow high level players to join low level players in content while protecting the enjoyment of the dungeon. It was designed carefully with particular skills / limitations in mind, and carefully balanced to be an enjoyable challenge for the average player. But in reality 90% of players will never get to experience the dungeons at the appropriate level of difficulty - instead they will be carried / dragged through in a hurry by lvl50 players.

If you're a player who enjoys being power leveled through the whole damn game then I can see the appeal, but I'm not into that and personally would love the level sync to be much much stronger. I'd also like to see end game content level synced by ilvl of gear, and that way we can avoid content being destroyed by becoming exceedingly easy to do to the point the group can pull 7 or 8 packs of mobs at once (brayflox HM) and finding a party to run the content in a normal / enjoyable manner becomes increasingly difficult. How is allowing this kind of overlevelled speed run to be possible on a massive scale good for the game in any way??

I think a good system for this would be to always lower the stats of high level gear to that of the normal quality gear you would buy from a vendor at the dungeons level range (maybe slightly higher). The synced gear should certainly never exceed the stats of the best gear obtainable withing the dungeons level range (so running coil turn 1 you can't have better stats than a player who never entered coil turn 2 or higher). The players returning already have the advantage of experience and shouldn't be given an extra handicap. The players running the content for their first time will get a truer experience, rather than a boring carry / drag through...

How much easier does the content need to be made (for repeat runners with high level gear) before someone will actually say "you know what... just pop some myth and soldiery in my mailbox everyday cause I'm really not actually playing anymore, i'm just pressing buttons".

I'm not saying the content is too easy for a party at the appropriate level, with the appropriate gear, I'm just saying that 90% of runs are too easy due to high level players (usually on roulette) being way overpowered for the content.

Thank you whoever hit 'like'. It's good to know I'm not the only one XD

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

Forget it! Why when content is already being facerolled completely by roulette players? Make the level sync more severe if anything ^_^

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So you want it harder for new players to get through content then? If something like that is put in place you can be sure 50-95% of the lvl 50 players will never touch low level content or bother with the low level roulette. I'm already at the point where I almost refuse to help fellow LS and FC doing the content because of the missing skill forcing me to play the class a way I was glad to be rid of when I hit 50. A stronger lvl sync and I will refuse to help. It's already not that fun going back to do the content, doing this will make it worse then it needs to be. This is even more true for the tanks. To even remotely be able to tank in low content you spam flash or overpower otherwise the healer or heavily geared dps are gonna tank the whole content. The only class that has it easy when synced is SCH because Eos and Selene can nearly solo heal the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Wilksha

So you want it harder for new players to get through content then? If something like that is put in place you can be sure 50-95% of the lvl 50 players will never touch low level content or bother with the low level roulette. I'm already at the point where I almost refuse to help fellow LS and FC doing the content because of the missing skill forcing me to play the class a way I was glad to be rid of when I hit 50. A stronger lvl sync and I will refuse to help. It's already not that fun going back to do the content, doing this will make it worse then it needs to be. This is even more true for the tanks. To even remotely be able to tank in low content you spam flash or overpower otherwise the healer or heavily geared dps are gonna tank the whole content. The only call that has it easy when synced is SCH because Eos and Selene can nearly solo heal the whole thing.

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I'll admit this is a very valid point. I know it's better that at least the new player can get a group, instead of queuing for hours and hours because everyone is high level and not interested anymore unless the content is quick and easy. But the rewards could be balanced out to draw the players back to the lower dungeons. Increased roulette bonus for example.

Besides roulette bonus, a mentor system could go a long way to encouraging players to jump in and assist those needing a first run. Something like a checkbox in party finder saying mentor requested. At least one player would need to join the group as mentor (could be more). Those who are not mentors will have the opportunity at the end of the dungeon to select whether each mentor was helpful or not. If they hit yes that mentor gets a point added to their mentor score. Having this displayed in the examine window would make the system highly competitive (in a good way) for those players who like to see themselves as helpful people. Furthermore there could be vanity rewards and such at different mentor point achievements.

Even if these idea's are lacking, I certainly feel there's no need to further spoil lower level content by allowing all high level skills to be unlocked. It's not like there's a big issue currently with players getting a run in duty finder for any content. Even DPS can get a run in less than an hour for most things, which is actually a luxury compared to mmo's without a duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We do not have any plans at the moment to allow the use of higher level abilities when you are level capped.

On a somewhat related note, however, Yoshida mentioned during Letter from the Producer LIVE XIV that we will be looking into making adjustments to actions that are not used very much by each job.

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This is much better, take things that aren't being used and get them in a new rotation depending on levels. There's no reason to allow all the skills at 50 to be there at low level. It's "boring" to some because of the lack of mechanics which is what low level teaches. There would be no difference if I got to use steel cyclone at 25 dmg synced from 50. The jobs / classes are designed to perform fine in the dungeons with the skills they provide. This is just a want to want, nothing that would be considered broken or needs adjusting.

I support the dev's decision to look into other abilities that aren't used, this could open up new rotations or better DPS / Healing / Tanking for us all. As it stands, I got no problem doing low levels with what I have.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

This mean that Awareness and Shield Swipe from GLA/PLD are going to be looked at?
They're about as useful as BLM's Freeze in endgame content.

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Shield Swipe is good for doing damage & maintaining TP. And on the enemies it works on it is pretty godly. Neutered enemy for 12+ seconds wuuuuut.

I can't really defend Awareness....I guess if you want to avoid a Death Sentence crit? If they extended the duration to 30secs that would honestly be enough for me. Is that OP? Nah.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Shield Swipe is good for doing damage & maintaining TP. And on the enemies it works on it is pretty godly. Neutered enemy for 12+ seconds wuuuuut.

I can't really defend Awareness....I guess if you want to avoid a Death Sentence crit? If they extended the duration to 30secs that would honestly be enough for me. Is that OP? Nah.

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Awareness is pretty important in 2.2 and it can be cross classed. Shield Swipe is incredibly powerful. Although its "old content" a paladin can interrupt all of Ifrit HM's eruptions and the "stack" plumes while tanking using a well timed shield block. What would make shield swipe more important is if it was usable on more enemies, such as interrupting ADS high voltage.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We do not have any plans at the moment to allow the use of higher level abilities when you are level capped.

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It would be nice to add it to the to-do list, or at least the things-to-consider list.

I agree with those who say it would make low-level content more enjoyable, and I disagree with those who say it would allow you to one-shot everything (which isn't true, your character would still be level-capped and not do enough damage to one-shot anything).

Perhaps consider this (sorry if it's already been suggested): if you won't allow all learned abilities to be available, then what about the abilities learned up to the level of the lowest-level party member? For example: in a party of four, everyone is level 50 but there is a level 30 member, so everyone will be limited to abilities they learned at level 30 and under. This way everyone remains on the same page.

As far as FATEs go, I honestly don't care as much about those. Let the abilities list be wide open as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by Arrak

Awareness is pretty important in 2.2 and it can be cross classed. Shield Swipe is incredibly powerful. Although its "old content" a paladin can interrupt all of Ifrit HM's eruptions and the "stack" plumes while tanking using a well timed shield block. What would make shield swipe more important is if it was usable on more enemies, such as interrupting ADS high voltage.

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Won't happen... Pacified is LITERALLY the opposite of silence.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We do not have any plans at the moment to allow the use of higher level abilities when you are level capped.

On a somewhat related note, however, Yoshida mentioned during Letter from the Producer LIVE XIV that we will be looking into making adjustments to actions that are not used very much by each job.

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Like!

Summoner spells are all amazing but some could work better. Requiring Miasma II to be in melee range kinda goes against our gameplay...

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Originally Posted by Wilksha

So you want it harder for new players to get through content then?

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You quoted that person suggesting the level-sync have a stronger diminishing affect... this wouldn't hurt new players at all as they wouldn't be level-synced... even if one was in the leveling process, let's say 32>28, the reduced stats could scale with # of levels synced down so they're still appropriately powerful.

Also like I mentioned before, a pre30/40 passive enmity bonus could be given to tanks (if needed, though I think a better solution is a greater desync stat reduction). Training wheels if you will, and would also make up for the difference in the dps having their full kits.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Like!

Summoner spells are all amazing but some could work better. Requiring Miasma II to be in melee range kinda goes against our gameplay...

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I have such a hard time justifying running up to a mob to use Miasma II. I will, but I don't feel comfortable doing it. It just feels REALLY weak for something we get so late in the game. I kinda wish we had some more things to do after applying DoTs too. I usually have nothing to do other than Ruin or Ruin II while waiting for the OGCDs to come back and the DoTs to get low.

I can understand locking them in dungeons...but FATEs should at least allow it. FATE's are nothing more than zerging anyways so I don't see why it would matter there.

What about lower level cross-class abilities? It's annoying to get level-synched as a warrior, and not have access to Featherfoot.

Heh, roll into Sastasha with two blms and flare all the things!

Would be so broken.

If you can't see the problem with this then I hope you never seek a career in game design.

They really need to fix that cross class abilities aren't caped at least. I went into a tam Tara run the other day as my whm for my atma book. Saw that I couldn't use stone skin, but then the thm next to me starts casting stone skin on everyone. Someone thought that makes sense? Who designed that?

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

They really need to fix that cross class abilities aren't caped at least. I went into a tam Tara run the other day as my whm for my atma book. Saw that I couldn't use stone skin, but then the thm next to me starts casting stone skin on everyone. Someone thought that makes sense? Who designed that?

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It's based on the slot you use, rather than the ability. The earlier the slot the lower the lvl cap is on it.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

They really need to fix that cross class abilities aren't caped at least. I went into a tam Tara run the other day as my whm for my atma book. Saw that I couldn't use stone skin, but then the thm next to me starts casting stone skin on everyone. Someone thought that makes sense? Who designed that?

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Why is that even an issue? That had to level a CNJ to at least 34 and then take the BLM whatever level they are at for the dungeon. You get to get other skills from your alts too. The cross-class skills are just fine as they are and so is the level sync. There is no need to go around screwing with this. Thing work just fine as they are. The only people complaining are the people want to speed run the low level stuff and run roughshod over newbies. The just want to take take and take. These people take for granted the reward and bonuses from the roulette and forget that it is meant to help other players. Quit trying to speed run everything.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

They really need to fix that cross class abilities aren't caped at least. I went into a tam Tara run the other day as my whm for my atma book. Saw that I couldn't use stone skin, but then the thm next to me starts casting stone skin on everyone. Someone thought that makes sense? Who designed that?

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Tanaka

Was already since 1.0 launch this way. Once you learned a skill from a class, you can also use the skill on another class with lower level so long it get equiped in a cross-skill slot (amount of unlocked cross-skill slots depend on the current class level).
Yoshida reduced the amount of cross-skills, but the way the cross-skill slots works is still the same

Ppl are for the whole
" have all skills unlocked that were unlocked regardless of synced level" mentality should think again.
The true problem isn't about attack potency, healing.
It's about the effects and damage mitigation.
If you guys don't know this already ( lol if you don't ) that you can skip mobs by sleeping them and running away from them their awareness range.
( i.e let's say the max pursuit of an enemy is 10 metres, if that enemy is slept and is stuck at point A. The person with aggro has to just run past that 10 metre mark and get to "point B" to break and reset the enemie's pursuit aggro.
Knowing this and the fact that every monster is sleepable in the lower dungeons will allow blms to sleep every mob from start to boss 1.
Tank can use defence buffs cuz of the whole "have all skills unlocked thing".
Bad design imo if they did go take that route.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

They really need to fix that cross class abilities aren't caped at least. I went into a tam Tara run the other day as my whm for my atma book. Saw that I couldn't use stone skin, but then the thm next to me starts casting stone skin on everyone. Someone thought that makes sense? Who designed that?

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Additional abilities 5/5 [][][][][] from left to right, are taken into account when lvl sync. lvl 10-20-30-40-50

My PLD has [Stoneskin][][][][] so that I know it could be helping CNJ/WHM that sync under lvl 34. *CNJ if not having done the job quests..

But really, you will beat the dungeon anyway cause it's so easy..

Tam-Tara is under lvl 20 (16, synced from 19), so you can only use one additional ability.

Enemy's *
Also you would not require a boss room to lock out the enemies. Because ALL enemies in dungeons have a universal fixed pursuit aggro range. Just like in the open world, if you run away from them they will eventually lose interest as they are bound to that specific area.
Yep so please do not change the way level sync is as what i mentioned above will be abused with the comp of tank + blm.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Enemy's *
Also you would not require a boss room to lock out the enemies. Because ALL enemies in dungeons have a universal fixed pursuit aggro range. Just like in the open world, if you run away from them they will eventually lose interest as they are bound to that specific area.
Yep so please do not change the way level sync is as what i mentioned above will be abused with the comp of tank + blm.

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So adjust aggro ranges... also, it wouldn't take long to code sleep-immunity into some more trash mobs... they're already changing it anyway, perhaps they could change it for pve purposes as well.

Or just eliminate mob-lockout altogether, which they should really.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

So adjust aggro ranges... also, it wouldn't take long to code sleep-immunity into some more trash mobs... they're already changing it anyway, perhaps they could change it for pve purposes as well.

Or just eliminate mob-lockout altogether, which they should really.

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Change this, change that... Gee whiz. How leave things as they are and they work fine. You don need the unlocked skills going thru it the first time, and you don't need now on the duty roulette or duty finder. Don't mess up what works well. Speed runners can go to hell.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

too op. med2 and regen = no one dying in any low level dungeon...ever. you just skip all fight mechanics and power through it all.

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Who is dying in a low level dungeon with an experienced whm anyway? It's not like everything is suddenly.. dangerous.

I don't see any real reason to lock skills. If it's that big a concern, raise the percentage of nerf per how much higher is the skill.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

So adjust aggro ranges... also, it wouldn't take long to code sleep-immunity into some more trash mobs... they're already changing it anyway, perhaps they could change it for pve purposes as well.

Or just eliminate mob-lockout altogether, which they should really.

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Well if they do fix aggro ranges then just make tank spam defence cool downs and do the good ol' pre nerfed AK sac and pull.
Whm/ sch raises, the end .
Cuz we all know why AK got buffed with the succubuses and sealed gate at start.
You guys aren't seeing the bigger picture of how dumb this idea would turn out.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Who is dying in a low level dungeon with an experienced whm anyway? It's not like everything is suddenly.. dangerous.

I don't see any real reason to lock skills. If it's that big a concern, raise the percentage of nerf per how much higher is the skill.

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Why fight when you can do sac and pull and revive. More skills unlocked = faster ways to cheese the dungeon.
If ppl did this then SE would be like wtf . They'll then have to either re work dungeons that didn't need it in order to compensate the new amount of skills unlocked or they'll have to take it out and leave it as it is.
You can still interact with the objectives as no mob will be interrupting you.

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

What abilities would allow you to 1-shot mobs in lower dungeons? Everything is based on potency instead of base damage, so the high level skills will do significantly less damage at lower levels.

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Still there would be too many OP abilities:

WHM - Medica 1/2, Cure 3, Benediction
SCH - Lustrate, 3 stacks Aetherflow
BLM - Firestarter, Flare (even scale the power down it would be way powerful at lower level when even Blizzard take a good portion of their life off)
BRD - double dot with Bloodletter proc, all CDs, Requiem, AoE triple proc
SMN - 3 stacks Aetherflow, Contagion, Enkindle, Fester, Bane, ShadowFlare (in lower level dungeon any of these will pretty much destroy packs)

How about this instead:

All Cross-Class Abilities usable in all dungeons.

Increase level-sync range to 5 levels.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

How about this instead:

All Cross-Class Abilities usable in all dungeons.

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This is already ingame
Just check that they are in an active cross-skill slot. Or do you maen that all slots should be active? Then they can also be all active at level 1.

soooo you wanna play a robot? I mean that's all a rotation is. your asking for the ability to mindlessly go through a game without even thinking about it just programmed robotic movement's? no thank you, actually I think it would be MORE FUN if they randomized the dungeons with different skills you have access too as a new sort of challenge mode!!! the only other thing I could see them doing to fix low level dungeons is with a lvl sync to where it also syncs your gear stats even more, keep it on par with the dungeon gear.

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Originally Posted by Felis

This is already ingame
Just check that they are in an active cross-skill slot. Or do you maen that all slots should be active? Then they can also be all active at level 1.

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In dungeon, all slots active, any level.

This way you get a few more abilities on average, untraited, which can allow you to have a bit more fun in lowbie dungeons.

Also upping the level-sync to 5 levels means lvl. 50 abilities in AV, lvl 48 ones in DD, lvl. 45 in SV, Shield Oath in Qarn & etc.

A fine compromise if you ask me. And not utterly game-breaking.

Would require some minor balance tweaks to certain dungeons but it's doable & would create a ton more fun.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

too op. med2 and regen = no one dying in any low level dungeon...ever. you just skip all fight mechanics and power through it all.

besides lvl capped dungeons are for helping others really. if youre 50, youre only there for roulette or helping a friend. mostly roulette, meaning you are only there 1 time all day usually. so you can deal with the 10m-1hr (depending on your team) for 1 time. then go back to your 50 dungeons and have your rotations

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Dunno if it's been said already, I just wanted to point out though, Selene/Eos in a low level dungeon pretty much ensures no one will die ever, either. Hell most of the time I go into a lower-level dungeon (15-25) I just throw up cleric stance and dps, letting my Eos do all the healing