1.17 > 1.18 = 3+ months. 1.18 > 1.19 = ???

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Originally Posted by Shipp

I didn't quote anyone out of context. Quoting one line from somebody's post and responding to that one line is not quoting out of context. Like most people who use that excuse, you don't know what quoting out of context means.

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Actually, you do. Constantly. Also, I'm listing things that community does know.

New direction of development started in Jan: Fact
MMOs generally have their content lined up as much as 1 year in advance: Fact

Applying what people generally know to the argument that SE's pace of development is slow is unfair given the circumstances. While you on the other hand take this point and snip out parts of my posts and others posts and throw the debate off track.

I don't know any more information than you do, yet you still seem to think you have a superior argument. When I'm basing my judgement on actual facts and not guessing loosely and basing my knowledge off programming I perform for small time flash games. :P

Bye bye.

Everytime I argue over a video game on the internets my super model/lawyer/doctor of a gf always gets hot and bothered and begs me to take her. I'm guessing the same is for everyone else?

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Yep, but that's precisely why I am concerned. It doesn't seem like everything is optimized on their end. Rather it seems something is bottlenecking them.

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That's the utter ignorance of some users on average development times.

Cant really be upset at anything Yoshida and crew has accomplished so far. Just try figuring out how everythings coded, changing everything, adding everything, and balancing everything in less than a year. People actin like they're some kind of MMO developing veterans who can do it underwater with one hand and half a brain. Yoshida even said it himself all of the things he is bringing out shoulda been here from the beginning.

Please, send all your hate mail to Tanaka.

Come on guys let's be friends and not argue. Let's look on the bright side of things, by the time this game is up to par everyone else will be bored with Rift, TERA, GW2, and SW:TOR. Those bored people will come flocking to XIV, so don't worry! :D Devs take your time and make sure everything is in order!

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Come on guys let's be friends and not argue. Let's look on the bright side of things, by the time this game is up to par everyone else will be bored with Rift, TERA, GW2, and SW:TOR. Those bored people will come flocking to XIV, so don't worry! :D Devs take your time and make sure everything is in order!

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I really wish people would instead of complaining, and if they hates it so badly, just busy themselves with a different MMO or something... Involving yourself with something that makes you angry is bad for your health in some way.

Well then if this thread didn't turn out to be a force five fecal storm.

Betelgeuzah, Can defiantly see where your coming from and I wonder about it my self from time to time. The thing that i do keep coming back to with it is that they said up front. That this patch was going to take a long time to get out the front door. So long in fact they were not willing to give a firm ballpark figure (har har oxymoron). When mid June came they were upfront about it again, "Hey guys were sorry about this but we need more time to make sure the dungeons are balanced and running smoothly".

Now personally i was not exactly thrilled when this was said in the letter, but i could understand Dming a weekly group of good old d&d put me through the crucible of good encounter design more then once. And that was with a limited set of variables. Creating the kind of encounters we as players want with this game must be nuts, but I digress.

Earlier in the thread some one posed the changing the tires on a race car question. This is incorrect. The better question in this situation would be how long do you expect them to take changing the treads on a Tank that's In combat, While spinning plates and dancing.

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Originally Posted by Griss

The better question in this situation would be how long do you expect them to take changing the treads on a Tank that's In combat, While spinning plates and dancing.

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That is a much better analogy for what they are going through right now. Not only are they under attack from the players, they are under attack from natural disasters and probably their bosses.

Whatever gets the job done, honestly. Stop the tank if the future of the game depends on it.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Whatever gets the job done, honestly. Stop the tank if the future of the game depends on it.

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Can't. It's already been sent out to war, and the critics are currently reviewing it for the next issue of Plate Spinners Monthly. (Same as my original point with racecars, trucks barreling down the hill towards a cliff, and any other analogy related to trying to fix something that's already in motion that tickles your fancy.)

Yoshi said all of the listed stuff they had on one of the earlier Letters is gonna be implemented til the end of september...among those things have been all the stuff they annunced for 1.19 and some stuff even in 1.20.

So my guess is, at least they are planning on getting those 2 patches live in the next 2 months. Although I doubt 1.20 is gonna be in that time frame, I'm more than certain 1.19 is gonna hit the servers sometimes late august/early september. I'm confident.

if u guys keep track of other mmo's, you can see these mmo's taking forever to come out, they probably running into problem after problem to fix too. only diff is we stuck playing cause they desided to launch early and steal our box sales lol. it's gonna be slow, even if he says it will be exelerated ...i don't think any content is gonna zoom into the game.

Speeding through the creation process is what got us into this mess in the first place.. show some patience. lotta the "fans" on here sound more like haters to me (pointed at no one in this thread!) Yeah it sucks.. it sucks for everyone get over it and grow some patience it's a virtue... an Absolute Virtue!

In Essence, they are redoing most of FFXIV. Considering it took them years to make this game, and now they are remaking it right in front of our eyes, I'd say the time frame is acceptable.

The thing about patch 1.18 is that it literally changes the game; auto-attack, repairs, guild leves, dungeons, grand companies, etc. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work it took to redesign the entire battle system from scratch and then go though the test phase. Point is, the problem isn't that it took them 3+ months to get this patch ready, it's that they decided to lump it all together in one mega patch.

I like big, game-changing patches as much as the next guy, but I think that SE should have broken the patch up and released it bit by bit, starting with auto-attack, then adding on the dungeons/guild leve reforms, and then moving on from there. The whole process would still take the same amount of time but this way players would have already been given auto-attack by mid-June in time to take the new combat system to the dungeons released in early July before settling in with the grand company quests by mid-July. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Balbanes

/Bayohne

Greetings!
We passed along your concerns to the Dev team, and Yoshida wanted to address this personally. The reply was a bit alarming...

/End Bayohne



I'm so getting banned for this, lol

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Banned or not, we all know that's what he wants to say.

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Originally Posted by weeble

if u guys keep track of other mmo's, you can see these mmo's taking forever to come out, they probably running into problem after problem to fix too. only diff is we stuck playing cause they desided to launch early and steal our box sales lol. it's gonna be slow, even if he says it will be exelerated ...i don't think any content is gonna zoom into the game.

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There's a differences in that one has been following a plan, and FF14 had to completely rewrite theirs(because it was that bad).

Most up coming MMOs at least is arming themselves with massive content and balance procedures as well as functionality, while FF14 is squeezing with brink of death things.

It's going to be tough to face off against future MMOs that are likely more stocked with everything nice, then FF14 who is running on empty borrowed time.

The only hope is that FF14 has more behind the scene stuff that can be unloaded in the near future, because in a game of big guns, FF14 just doesn't have any.

We'll have to see what is in 1.18, and then we can calculate 1.19 from that. They need to show us that January to june was worth more then just some adjustments.

It's likely we will be waiting until the very end of summer for patch 1.19. As in the final week of September.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Actually, you do. Constantly. Also, I'm listing things that community does know.

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Actually, I don't. Ever. Show me where I quoted out of context, I assure you, it was not done on purpose if it even happened at all.

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New direction of development started in Jan: Fact
MMOs generally have their content lined up as much as 1 year in advance: Fact

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Fact: This doesn't matter to the general population.
Fact: This doesn't matter to the majority of MMO players.

I know we all want this game to succeed, but take off the fanboy glasses for just a second and look at this from a regular MMO player's PoV. Take any MMO you have been interested in and then quit because you didn't like it. Did you keep up with the dev cycle after you found out you didn't like it? Probably not, because it was a passing interest. We are all FF fans here, obviously we view FF differently. Think of those people who tried it and did not like it that were possibly going to becoming FF fans from this title and saw what a mess it was in and gave up. Hell, look at all of the actual FF fans who have given up.

THIS is what I'm talking about. I even stated, you are correct in one thing, and that is that it's not really comparable to other MMO dev teams. However that is what happens once you release a game, no matter how many overhauls have to be redone.

I have not bashed the SE devs at all. Listing potential problems that are easy to slip into != bashing. As the OP has stated, QA could be bottlenecking the patches.

Has Yoshi-P taken a great undertaking here? Yes. However people really need to stop with claiming the whole team got switched. It did not. For the most part, the devs now are the same ones that programmed what we got on launch, they're just under a new director, so the argument that they might not be familiar with another person's code doesn't hold much weight.

There have been legitimate delays, such as the natural disaster, but they were back working in about a week or two. I am not saying that they should have been, I'm just repeating what we were told at the time.

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Applying what people generally know to the argument that SE's pace of development is slow is unfair given the circumstances. While you on the other hand take this point and snip out parts of my posts and others posts and throw the debate off track.

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You can claim it's unfair until your tongue falls out, and you'd be half-right. SE dug themselves the hole, only they are to blame for the state of the game. Yes, Yoshi-P is trying to fix it, but for probably the majority of MMO players, this game was a flop and they moved on to other things. If this game doesn't shape up substantially by SWTOR, Tera, GW2, this game might as well just be shelved. That's not being cynical, that's being realistic.

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I don't know any more information than you do, yet you still seem to think you have a superior argument. When I'm basing my judgement on actual facts and not guessing loosely and basing my knowledge off programming I perform for small time flash games. :P

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No, I don't seem to think I have a superior argument. I think I see a lot of people on here who are making excuses for SE, and that is what led us to this place in the beginning. "Oh it's just Beta, last week of Beta will introduce all the content." "Oh it's still just the Beta, it'll introduce all of the content when it's launched." "Oh, it's still just launch week, they'll introduce all of the content when the standard edition comes." "Oh, they're probably working hard, they'll introduce new content in the first patch."

Repeat that over and over and over. Yes, if you want to claim I argue on Eorzeapedia until I'm blue in the face, it's from THAT time period that I constantly argued with people. Justifying fatigue as a way to help casuals keep up with hardcores when it's actually just the opposite, and was explained several times to people that still didn't get it, and still don't, is irritating. Just like certain people on this site who can't see the complete irony in telling someone that they're wrong, and then claiming, "No one but the devs know!"

I check Eorzeapedia about 3 times a week now. There's rarely even any posts on the site to argue with. Or maybe you were one of the people who flocked to the site during the beta key giveaway when I expressed my opinion on giving keys to people who strictly signed up for keys vs members who had actually participated on the site for much longer, thus were 100% going to stay around after it was over. Don't know, don't care, to be frank. This game isn't going to survive on the fantasy of its minute playerbase's warped sense of how the world works. If that means voicing my concerns and opinion and it clashes with yours, then so be it. I don't log on forums to make friends. I log on forums to find out what is changing and putting my input in, just like everyone else around here.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

Actually, I don't. Ever. Show me where I quoted out of context, I assure you, it was not done on purpose if it even happened at all.


Fact: This doesn't matter to the general population.
Fact: This doesn't matter to the majority of MMO players.

I know we all want this game to succeed, but take off the fanboy glasses for just a second and look at this from a regular MMO player's PoV. Take any MMO you have been interested in and then quit because you didn't like it. Did you keep up with the dev cycle after you found out you didn't like it? Probably not, because it was a passing interest. We are all FF fans here, obviously we view FF differently. Think of those people who tried it and did not like it that were possibly going to becoming FF fans from this title and saw what a mess it was in and gave up. Hell, look at all of the actual FF fans who have given up.

THIS is what I'm talking about. I even stated, you are correct in one thing, and that is that it's not really comparable to other MMO dev teams. However that is what happens once you release a game, no matter how many overhauls have to be redone.

I have not bashed the SE devs at all. Listing potential problems that are easy to slip into != bashing. As the OP has stated, QA could be bottlenecking the patches.

Has Yoshi-P taken a great undertaking here? Yes. However people really need to stop with claiming the whole team got switched. It did not. For the most part, the devs now are the same ones that programmed what we got on launch, they're just under a new director, so the argument that they might not be familiar with another person's code doesn't hold much weight.

There have been legitimate delays, such as the natural disaster, but they were back working in about a week or two. I am not saying that they should have been, I'm just repeating what we were told at the time.


You can claim it's unfair until your tongue falls out, and you'd be half-right. SE dug themselves the hole, only they are to blame for the state of the game. Yes, Yoshi-P is trying to fix it, but for probably the majority of MMO players, this game was a flop and they moved on to other things. If this game doesn't shape up substantially by SWTOR, Tera, GW2, this game might as well just be shelved. That's not being cynical, that's being realistic.



No, I don't seem to think I have a superior argument. I think I see a lot of people on here who are making excuses for SE, and that is what led us to this place in the beginning. "Oh it's just Beta, last week of Beta will introduce all the content." "Oh it's still just the Beta, it'll introduce all of the content when it's launched." "Oh, it's still just launch week, they'll introduce all of the content when the standard edition comes." "Oh, they're probably working hard, they'll introduce new content in the first patch."

Repeat that over and over and over. Yes, if you want to claim I argue on Eorzeapedia until I'm blue in the face, it's from THAT time period that I constantly argued with people. Justifying fatigue as a way to help casuals keep up with hardcores when it's actually just the opposite, and was explained several times to people that still didn't get it, and still don't, is irritating. Just like certain people on this site who can't see the complete irony in telling someone that they're wrong, and then claiming, "No one but the devs know!"

I check Eorzeapedia about 3 times a week now. There's rarely even any posts on the site to argue with. Or maybe you were one of the people who flocked to the site during the beta key giveaway when I expressed my opinion on giving keys to people who strictly signed up for keys vs members who had actually participated on the site for much longer, thus were 100% going to stay around after it was over. Don't know, don't care, to be frank. This game isn't going to survive on the fantasy of its minute playerbase's warped sense of how the world works. If that means voicing my concerns and opinion and it clashes with yours, then so be it. I don't log on forums to make friends. I log on forums to find out what is changing and putting my input in, just like everyone else around here.

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Wow.. How does he have the Patience to type all that.... /wave

the title burns my eyes.

Considering I have enough knowledge to write a "Hello, world!" program I find these time frames unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Considering I have enough knowledge to write a "Hello, world!" program I find these time frames unacceptable.

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Completely understandable.

So NOW the Eorzeapedia gang is all here.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Considering I have enough knowledge to write a "Hello, world!" program I find these time frames unacceptable.

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But can you do it in several different languages? With your eyes closed? With your left hand? ;)

(I can! ... okay maybe not with my left hand.)

To a real MMO player 6 months and even a year is not a long time. If you plan to play for 5 years or even more then waiting and still being able to play while they to bring the game up to where they feel is suitable is no big deal. Most people have no clue how long it takes to develop and test anything. All these negative remarks about how they take too long is ridiculous and straight up rude. If you want this game to be amazing how about we show a bit more support. If you want to sit here and bash them you shouldn't even play the game they make.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

To a real MMO player 6 months and even a year is not a long time. If you plan to play for 5+ years or even more then waiting and still being able to play while they to bring the game up to where they feel is suitable is no big deal. Most people have no clue how long it takes to develop and test anything. All these negative remarks about how they take too long is ridiculous and straight up rude. If you want this game to be amazing how about we show a bit more support. If you want to sit here and bash them you shouldn't even play the game they make.

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Couldn't agree more =)

Why don't we wait for the post 1.18 Yoshi-P letter? It will be around the usual 2 week mark by the time 1.18 comes out anyway. He already said we will talk about the plans for 1.19 then. Anything until that point is little more than empty speculation.

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Originally Posted by Ark_mage2

Why don't we wait for the post 1.18 Yoshi-P letter? It will be around the usual 2 week mark by the time 1.18 comes out anyway. He already said we will talk about the plans for 1.19 then. Anything until that point is little more than empty speculation.

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and calling it "Speculation" is a little Generous right now.. because theres not mush to speculate on.. untill 1.18 comes out

1.19 aug 23rd. my guess.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

All these negative remarks about how they take too long is ridiculous and straight up rude. If you want this game to be amazing how about we show a bit more support. If you want to sit here and bash them you shouldn't even play the game they make.

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So let's say everyone who has had anything derogatory to say about SE's decisions or development cycle takes your advice and leaves.

*crickets*

Yeah.

I also remember seeing something posted by Yoshi-p saying that after 1.18 the patch timeline will see significant improvements in speed, I'm looking for it right now.

EDIT: A little tidbit from the mouth of Yoshi-p

"1.18 has proven to be a time-consuming patch, but there’s a good reason for this. 1.18 is the momentous first bold step towards the ideal game that we’ve envisioned, and we hope our fans will be able to feel and appreciate the passion that went into its creation. We ask for your patience for just a little while longer."

That's out of the letter from the producer XII, in case anyone wasn't sure on his reasoning for 1.18s delays.

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Originally Posted by trinta

So let's say everyone who has had anything derogatory to say about SE's decisions or development cycle takes your advice and leaves.

*crickets*

Yeah.

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People like you who do the above to others comments need to not post anything. You know what i meant about us needing to be a bit more supportive to the development team. No need to "douche" it up to look cool online.

We are unfortunatly not privy to know what the guys have actually been working on. Hell they mentioned the last thing that needs actual polish was the dungeons...like 2 weeks ago.

So chances are they have been working on 1.19 for some time, what the patch entails will dictate the speed of the release. I'm expecting a 1-2 month cycle from here on out but I wont really hold my breath until we start hearing about 1.19.

This is a pretty major change in game mechanics coming in 1.18, so that would naturally be time consuming to balance, and then QA. Spending more time in QA may help avoid problems like...well, pick your problem from the launch, many of them could have been prevented with better QA.

I don't see what the problem is, Why care so much about the game right now? this is a perfect time to take a 6-9 month break, the game probably needs another 2-3 major patches before its even respectable.

I don't think the dev team is capable of doing work that they can wrap up by the end of a week or two weeks. I'm sure Yoshida has been riding them and all they are saying is "give us more time." I think the things we got quickly were the few people that could turn something around in under a week, but the rest of them are so accustomed to the FFXI development cycle that they can't break out of it. It will be a matter of whether their new leader can successfully break their habits or not.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

People like you who do the above to others comments need to not post anything. You know what i meant about us needing to be a bit more supportive to the development team. No need to "douche" it up to look cool online.

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No worries, I knew what you meant. Anyone who has anything to negative to say that you personally disagree with shouldn't be playing the game. It's not an uncommon sentiment, I understand.

The problem with this thread is that both sides of the coin are right. Side A is frustrated with the development cycle and rightly so. It has been almost a year and many of us have been max level since January meaning we have had next to zero new content since that time. I am not counting mid-level content because really, we want content at our level. Side B is also right though. Yoshi and his team are trying to turn around a game that was mis-handled in the first place, and developing content almost from scrap.

What Side A has to remember is that Yoshi has posted and stated that the development cycle for *new* content, from planning to implementation is about 6 months. This is a large part as to why it has taken so long for them to start pumping stuff out. The new Dev Team started in January. First they got the community's opinion in the 2 player polls. Then they assessed their new vision and new direction for the game. And now we are just starting to see the tip of the iceberg emerge. The patches from Jan - May have been things that the old team started and Yoshi teams finished. The things from Now - Forever, should be things that the new team is solely responsible for. Not all of it of course, as the existing dungeons were probably already in progress with the old team. Yoshi has already stated that he has multiple teams working on content side-by-side. That means that much of the work is likely in it's completion phases and that is why Side B is hoping that the update schedule will be accelerated from here on out. As they finish implementation, they will have more manpower to dedicate to other areas.

What Side B needs to understand is that FFXIV has had a bad run so far and people are jaded and frustrated. SE has to earn back the trust Side A.

But both sides needn't attack each other. We're all here to play the game after all. But we do need to be adult about it. Either it's going to happen or it is not. Complaints and criticisms is perfectly acceptable so long as it is constructive and reasonable. Optimism is fine too, so long as it does not spawn zealots in the community. The minute either side descends to attacking each other personally is the exact moment when a thread loses all relevancy.

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Originally Posted by Burn

I don't see what the problem is, Why care so much about the game right now? this is a perfect time to take a 6-9 month break, the game probably needs another 2-3 major patches before its even respectable.

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The problem is that regardless of everyone's personal feelings, this game has to live up to the standards of a modern MMO. It doesn't have to do that now, that's not the point. Someday it will have to. That's the point.

And that's exactly my concern. I don't care about playing the game as it is. I care about the future prospects, and the problem is that 2-3 major patches will not be enough after 1.18. It still won't be up to par.

Whatever this forum might think is irrelevant. if there is no mass appeal, the game won't be left running for you alone.

I'm not frustrated. I'm not impatient. I just want the game to be a future success. The current development speed just won't be enough.