Collision Detection

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Originally Posted by R-Odin

I'm pretty sure they turned off collision detection of these kinds so as to lighten the computational load on the servers in order to address the issue of severe lag experienced early on. I got the idea that it was more of a temporary thing, and that it would return once the algorithms being used were made more efficient and/or servers were upgraded to handle a higher load. That is, they would bring it back once they could do it without causing the servers to lag.

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I got the impression that Yoshi explicitly stated it was removed because "players didnt like to go around mobs and other players"

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Originally Posted by Shipp

Truthfully, this is always going to be an issue. If you play any MMO with a friend sitting next to you, the screen will always show different placements for your own character as long as you haven't been standing in one spot. It's the same as running and hitting the rest button in XI and to you, your character stops and kneels, to everyone else, your character slides while kneeling. Or running and dying, your character often appeared to scoot around in the face plant position to everyone else.

XI had extreme cases of it, but it still happens in every MMO. It's more to do with latency since your client is showing you exactly where you are, but for other people to see that, your client data has to be sent to the server, then the server has to send that to everyone else. Assuming the ping is 200~ for people in the U.S., that's about .4 seconds that everyone else is behind when viewing your actual character. There's really no way around the issue, especially when you're playing on servers half way around the world.

This also leads to JP players being able to claim faster (botting aside) because the monster loads about .2 seconds before it would on our screen, which is why the HNMs in FFXI would either spawn claimed, or when we'd try to pull them it would say that it was already claimed, even though it didn't show up that way on our screen.

Now talking about collision detection, I completely fell through the world last night when I was walking up the hill to the camp north of drybone. I was below the map and could walk around all over. I was getting horrible lag for some reason, even though I never do in the field, and the game stuttered at I guess just the right angle and wham, I'm under the ground.

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I understand a little bit of latency, like when im playing next to a friend and we argue over whos really further ahead lol.
But its rediculous when someones character is flying up a wall when the should be on the other side of town. If a few people encounter this problem and especially more so in certain cities, then its kinda an issue on SE's end that needs fine tuning. I barely encounter latency like that in any other mmo, if I do then its rare, but for it to happen so extreme then i do think something is wrong.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I understand a little bit of latency, like when im playing next to a friend and we argue over whos really further ahead lol.
But its rediculous when someones character is flying up a wall when the should be on the other side of town. If a few people encounter this problem and especially more so in certain cities, then its kinda an issue on SE's end that needs fine tuning. I barely encounter latency like that in any other mmo, if I do then its rare, but for it to happen so extreme then i do think something is wrong.

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I completely agree that XIV is horrible at this. This ties in to them needed to work on the servers and probably part of the engine to optimize it for PC.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

I completely agree that XIV is horrible at this. This ties in to them needed to work on the servers and probably part of the engine to optimize it for PC.

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Guys, it's really not that bad.

I see it maybe once every ten play sessions.

People getting engulfed by other players and mobs on the other hand happens every single time you do ANYTHING in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I dunno if it was just my computer but while im walking around i saw other players like walking over obsticals and walking through parts of walls, so maybe collision dection might fix something like that or does stuff just need calibration?

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Its due to how often the server updates the positions of players. You can't get everyone's new position every frame so the game interpolates between their current and previous position to move them. If they're moving in a straight line, that's fine, but when people go around corners or navigate an obstacle, that can result in players going where they shouldn't.

@OP: I fully agree. People are too used to just run through every obstacle, yet no one complains it doesn't work like that irl. Yes it's a game, yes it has elements that are unrealistic, but 2 objects in one place are not unrealistic but impossible.

Full collision detection has potential problems because of people blocking the way (there are ways around this too), but partial collision detection should definitely be implemented (at least player vs hostile). It makes much more strategy possible, like tanks actually protecting the magi behind them.

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Originally Posted by R-Odin

I'm pretty sure they turned off collision detection of these kinds so as to lighten the computational load on the servers in order to address the issue of severe lag experienced early on. I got the idea that it was more of a temporary thing, and that it would return once the algorithms being used were made more efficient and/or servers were upgraded to handle a higher load. That is, they would bring it back once they could do it without causing the servers to lag.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

I got the impression that Yoshi explicitly stated it was removed because "players didnt like to go around mobs and other players"

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I did some searching, and as far as I can tell, there has been no reason given for the removal of collision detection specifically between players or players and mobs. If anyone can find one, I'd be glad to see it.

However, a less specific statement can be found in the table of update plans as seen in Letters from the Producer, such as III and X; the statement occurs under the plan of environment collision detection, but the statement itself seems more general, referencing "collision detection" of no certain kind. There is a separate item in the table for character collision, but it is left unexplained.

"Risk analysis of collision detection adjustments to improve movement response"

Interpret that however you like; to me it says that collision detection adjustments are being made in order to improve movement response, where response is used in a technical capacity to refer to the concepts of response time and responsiveness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsiveness).

I'm not saying I'm right; but I'm not pulling **** out of my *** either.

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Originally Posted by mysterytaru

With all the issues this game has, and all the major changes coming, *THIS* is the kind of thing people start forum crusades over? Really? /sigh

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People on these forums would start a crusade over what type of sandwich they like. Though, that does sound like fun..

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Originally Posted by R-Odin

I did some searching, and as far as I can tell, there has been no reason given for the removal of collision detection specifically between players or players and mobs. If anyone can find one, I'd be glad to see it.

However, a less specific statement can be found in the table of update plans as seen in Letters from the Producer, such as III and X; the statement occurs under the plan of environment collision detection, but the statement itself seems more general, referencing "collision detection" of no certain kind. There is a separate item in the table for character collision, but it is left unexplained.

"Risk analysis of collision detection adjustments to improve movement response"

Interpret that however you like; to me it says that collision detection adjustments are being made in order to improve movement response, where response is used in a technical capacity to refer to the concepts of response time and responsiveness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsiveness).

I'm not saying I'm right; but I'm not pulling **** out of my *** either.

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Well that's a relief if it's temporary. Hopefully when they fix the servers they can implement collision back. However, I do so "fondly" recall when Yoshi said something to the effect of some players found collision annoying when moving around. I didn't think it was a technical issue, but rather a response to players complaints. But I guess we will see in due time.

FFXI had the proper collision system. You bump, but you can push through something if you keep going.

If they bring back collision, something will need to be done about the market wards though.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

FFXI had the proper collision system. You bump, but you can push through something if you keep going.

If they bring back collision, something will need to be done about the market wards though.

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And the adventurers guild leve counter.

And character loading times as you'd often find yourself running against 'invisible objects'

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

FFXI had the proper collision system. You bump, but you can push through something if you keep going.

If they bring back collision, something will need to be done about the market wards though.

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They were never that bad. But maybe they could just disable collision inside the wards then, if people are so bent out of shape about it.

the beast-men camps that have already been added, i hate how you can run right threw their wagons.

they may bring it back after the zones are remade, everyone complained about LL and not being able to go over little rocks. I thought that's why they removed it, as a temp hold over til jump was implemented. I could be wrong though, my memory isn't all that good.

On Playstation Home if you run into another player it pushes them away from you instead of you running right through them. It looks a bit silly but its another way of doing it. I have also seen games where if you run into another player you will stop but if you keep pushing forward you can eventually run through them. There is no reason why this game can not have collision detection they just need to be creative with how they do it.

Oh boy, now he's necrobumping his own threads...

It's a good point though.

I played one game where trying to run into another character would cause them to slowly rotate around you, the faster you moved to try and push them the faster they'd spin around behind you. once you moved away their character would center back onto the spot they started on.

Can't remember what game did this but I had great fun finding ways to still push people off cliffs on it.