Marriage Quest finally on the horizon! Yay!

Before people get their hopes up regarding same sex marriages I'd urge them to look at some of the seasonal quests that stipulate the requirement for a male and female participant.

I personally feel committed couples should be able to marry regardless of gender and sexual proclivity, however, I'm also aware that not every country in the world shares my views and even in the ones who do many of their individual residents don't. It's definitely an ongoing struggle and a divisive topic and I can imagine S-E will take the ultra-conservative approach towards the subject, they are Japanese after all and well known for being a conservative nation.

That said, just because it is such a hot potato I feel it would be a bad idea to introduce it in to the game. Any particular feature as this that starts out excluding a whole section of the playerbase can't be good for the health of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

Seriously? Straight people flaunt their sexuality? You can't talk to somebody in the LBGT "community" without them shoving it down your throat at every turn about how much they love the same sex.

---

Thanks for saying this. I was going to, but couldn't translate my thoughts into text lol.

Anyway, I don't give two poops who (or what you marry). Long as it doesn't affect me, you could support homo/heterosexual marriage. Hells, you could even marry the plant in your FC HQ's front yard for all I care.

Just please don't go "I'm gay! I'm gay! Please make this game more gay cause I'm gay OMG!" at me. I'm happy you're happy, but I don't want that info forced down my throat.

Meh, I still would have preferred complete non-involvement on SE's part, instead having them only implement assets, items and attire to be used by the players as they see fit. Not sure why SE would take the harder route for something like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

I personally feel committed couples should be able to marry regardless of gender and sexual proclivity, however, I'm also aware that not every country in the world shares my views and even in the ones who do many of their individual residents don't. It's definitely an ongoing struggle and a divisive topic and I can imagine S-E will take the ultra-conservative approach towards the subject, they are Japanese after all and well known for being a conservative nation.

---

We're in the 21st century. We've wasted by far too many years already giving consideration to superstitious and antiquated mindsets. It's like the emergence of the global economy, either get with the times or be left behind.

There should be no interracial marriage either. And you should only be allowed to marry those with the same skin tone. No light skinned characters marrying dark skinned characters etc, because its controversial in some countries and might end up offending some idio... people. Or you know, don't put marriage (or any mechanic) in the game if you're going to arbitrarily decide what kind of people can and can't use it. Marriage for everyone, or no one at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreamer

We're in the 21st century. We've wasted by far too many years already giving consideration to superstitious and antiquated mindsets.

---

I don't expect to see a significant change in my lifetime. The various leading religions have been around for hundreds of years and I don't see them revising their views on homosexuality anytime soon. It's not in their interests to promote a way of life that not only is abhorrent to many people but also doesn't produce new followers via childbirth. As long as there are people following those archaic doctrines you're going to experience opposition to same-sex equality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jars

I can't say I am very educated on the state of gay rights in japan

---

I do, Japan isn't against gay people at all. But they are very conservative about it. Which is cool in my eyes I'm gay my self and get bugged by people that love to shove there sexuality in peoples faces.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucke

Anyway, I don't give two poops who (or what you marry). Long as it doesn't affect me

---

I'm not attacking you in particular or wanting to derail too much, but if you flip your opinion (basically "I don't care if same sex marriage is allowed as long as it doesn't affect me!") To opposite-sex marriage, you will see that actually "straight marriage" has had an effect on LGBT people for centuries.

This kind of attitude some people have of "I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me" is a bit selfish and shows a lack of empathy for others. If you said the same in a topic about exclusion based on race people would be furious. For some reason people see some forms of exclusion more important than others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deifact

This kind of attitude some people have of "I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me" is a bit selfish and shows a lack of empathy for others. If you said the same in a topic about exclusion based on race people would be furious. For some reason people see some forms of exclusion more important than others.

---

So it's not enough if people agree with you, or just step out of the way, if they don't take up and champion your cause for you they are selfish?

At all those people who think marriage is unneeded: Not every one is playing MMORPGs for the sole reason of tackling end game content or crafting. Some of us do because we love to roleplay our characters and creating a second life. Those of us who do love things like this as it adds dept to our roleplaying and our characters. For us this is a very nice addition.

To me it is important that people can marry or can not marry while roleplaying as that adds dept to their characters. I might even considering opening a speed dating center in this game where people can speeddate if I can justify it in character which I likely can. This is something really close to heart for many roleplayers and while I understand alot of the playerbase do not have any interest at all in this please understand that to us that do this is just as important as having end game instances such as BcoB or PvP if you are a PvPer. Please understand that this adds to our definition of fun in an MMORPG.

Also, please SE. I pledge you please consider same sexed marriage. I will not create a riot about it or anything else until the day it is released, but I just want you to know that I would be very happy and pleased if same sex marriage is available. Not sure if I would use the opportunity but even if I wouldn't I think it is a bad stance against people who wants to marry a same sexed character.

I know that the view of this subject differs in different parts of the world, but they have the option to not marry a same sexed character and should not do so if they do not want to. It is not like I and others enforce others to marry same sexed characters. It is just that some of us would love that option as we for whatever reason would prefer that.

So many people keep overlooking one thing, that everyone should really be focusing on about this issue (the fact that there is an issue, and it's a big one imo) Same Sex Marriage. Not "gay" or "lesbian" marriage, but same sex marriage. Everyone that wants to throw in their 2 cents of "religion" this or "political" that aren't realizing that, do you really think every single "same-sex" couple in the game that want to get married are "same-sex" in real life?

This is a video game, and it is not real life. So tired of everyone bringing their religious or political view into this issue. Because it all boils down to just the characters being of the same sex. You will not have ANY clue that the people behind those characters are female or male.

Example: I'm a guy, orientation (you don't need to know if you already do, good for you.) I have a guy friend that wants to marry me, if I can't marry my friend who is a girl. Their respective orientations are none of your business. If I can't marry the friend who is a girl I'll have to marry the friend who is a guy... yeah thats right because my girl friend plays a male character, while my boy friend plays a girl character. Remember, you have no true idea (unless you're told, or already know) which sex is which. Who cares if a male character wants to marry another male character or female/female want to get married, again they are just characters.

On subject, I'm very excited to see how the weddings do go in Eorzea, I loved being apart and having a Vana'diel wedding! So, yeah I'm excited and can't wait to see how they'll go about it, I hope the tuxes are freaking awesome-saucesome!

Wow straight/gay argument or hear more atma whining... Decisions decisions I think I will go with the atma whining at least that argument affects game play where as this one does not. Seriously are you playing a game for enjoyment or do you think SE should address religion and gay rights and all real world problems. This isn't even a real issue since the content is fantasy and is the sole ownership of the creator to do as they please. I play this game to get away from all the racism and politics etc... please for the love of god don't put all that in this game.

Cheers in advance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elven

Wow straight/gay argument or hear more atma whining... Decisions decisions I think I will go with the atma whining at least that argument affects game play where as this one does not. Seriously are you playing a game for enjoyment or do you think SE should address religion and gay rights and all real world problems. This isn't even a real issue since the content is fantasy and is the sole ownership of the creator to do as they please. I play this game to get away from all the racism and politics etc... please for the love of god don't put all that in this game.

Cheers in advance.

---

Just like you likely do I play this game to have fun. And my definition of fun is roleplaying. And just like you I want to get away from real life issues. One of them is discrimination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yamimarik

do you really think every single "same-sex" couple in the game that want to get married are "same-sex" in real life?

---

Finally someone said it. I'm male, i play a female Miqo'te because i love catgirls and i would like to marry a female Miqo'te because... i love catgirls (lol). I'm not "lesbian", so even if both characters have the same sex is not marriage with "the same sex" (you know what i mean). I wouldn't like to have to marry with a male character... it would be awkward...

im somehow waitin for the "im-the-gay-minority-and-i-want-to-live-out-sexually-in-a-videogame" guy...isnt there alrdy another actualy same thread out there?

I agree about the renaming, should just call it "Soulmate system" and be done with it. Have the wedding customes in game as a craft vanity but dont require them for the quest and done.

So long as its not another Marriage system like FFXI. :I
Having to submit an application in order for a GM to preside over said wedding was ridiculous. You'd have to wait MONTHS in advance, and even then your application might be denied.

Honestly it should just be something Player encouraged. A quest perhaps done with your chosen spouse. (Can only be done with two players)
And wedding gear pieces that can be created by crafters. Rings can be provided Via the quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jewelfox

Straight people flaunt their sexuality enough without having yet another thing they can hold over everyone else.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tule

I agree that LGBT people can get overzealous in their cause, but it is a just one.

---

Doesn't matter regardless, their statement (part I quoted) is what provokes these threads to turn for the worst and get locked. Whether their opinion is considered right or wrong, it's far from a tactful approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

Just like you likely do I play this game to have fun. And my definition of fun is roleplaying. And just like you I want to get away from real life issues. One of them is discrimination.

---

How is it discrimination if we have no idea of Eorzea history they could of beat this and many other real world problems generations ago and enlightened their intellect beyond our own?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elven

How is it discrimination if we have no idea of Eorzea history they could of beat this and many other real world problems generations ago and enlightened their intellect beyond our own?

---

How is it discrimination that same gendered couples can not get married while different gendered couples can... Hmm...:confused:

I knew that this thread would become a flame war over same sex marriage. People taking real world American politics into a fantasy world made by Japan for the lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoLo

I knew that this thread would become a flame war over same sex marriage. People taking real world American politics into a fantasy world made by Japan for the lose.

---

It's not just an American stance on the topic. People play all over the world, China soon to be included, and same-sex marriages aren't necessarily legal in those countries. In the United Kingdom same-sex marriage is legal in England and Wales for instance, Scotland soon, and currently not allowed in Northern Ireland. S-E, being a Japanese company, have always erred on the side of conservatism rather than take a stance on divisive topics. They may surprise us all but I highly doubt it going off past experience.

Is Cid single does anyone know?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunavi

How is it discrimination that same gendered couples can not get married while different gendered couples can... Hmm...:confused:

---

Do you not see the irony? now you are bringing in our real world thinking into this game ignorant of how Eorzea may have passed this way of thinking. It's amusing to say the least that you keep over looking this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blackcanary

I do, Japan isn't against gay people at all. But they are very conservative about it. Which is cool in my eyes I'm gay my self and get bugged by people that love to shove there sexuality in peoples faces.

---

While no expert on Japanese gender views, I've read that it's not considered unusual for teenaged girls to form romantic couples - but that this is considered to be "practice" for "real" heterosexual relationships, and that lesbianism in adults is considered disgraceful and childish. In short, lesbianism isn't even real - it's just a phase that high school girls sometimes go through and sometimes stubbornly cling to as adults. It can be a lot harder to fight for something that isn't even regarded as a thing that exists. :( At any rate, don't be so sure about Japan's supposedly being progressive in terms of gay rights.

Anyway, while many people are very serious about the whole marriage thing, I'm guessing that even if same-sex marriages were allowed nine times out of ten you'd wind up with something like this:

Tifa Chere: im so lucky to have a sexy kitty bride!

Kitty Gurl: Yay! i love you so much! But... I have a confession. I'm actually a guy IRL.

Tifa Chere: ...wut?

Kitty Gurl: Sorry. ;_;

Tifa Chere: but im a guy, too...

Kitty Gurl: huh

Tifa Chere: ...

Kitty Gurl: ...

Tifa Chere: wanna cyber?

To all people who say that it's not discrimination, that it might be in the lore, that we shouldnt complain about it...

Just imagine for a second you are in the character creation and start your game as a female hyur archer. Then after a few days you decide to play as a paladin, go to the guild and speak to the npc to unlock it and the game says:

"Women can't become paladins, paladin is a mans job... You get a buff for culinarian tho"

If that kind of retrograde thinking is not present in the game then why the hell is this fantasy land in wich giants marry child looking people, humans mate with cat-people and so on against same sex marriages?

I wouldn't have thought same-sex marriage would be an issue, what with the sex-change potion going on sale soon. No one bats an eyelid at guys being girls, girls being guys and everyone swapping gender on a whim, but a gay marriage is a big deal?

*le sigh*

LGBT telling SE how to design their own game.

again.

japan is a land with priority on classical family values.
don't like it?
play a western MMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

It's not just an American stance on the topic. People play all over the world, China soon to be included, and same-sex marriages aren't necessarily legal in those countries. In the United Kingdom same-sex marriage is legal in England and Wales for instance, Scotland soon, and currently not allowed in Northern Ireland. S-E, being a Japanese company, have always erred on the side of conservatism rather than take a stance on divisive topics. They may surprise us all but I highly doubt it going off past experience.

---

That was my whole point. American's thinking that their political views should be pandered to because they can't see past their bubble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altijacek

As much as I support same sex marriage, I would never call the traditionals misguided. Even as an atheist, I would never call a believer misguided. Good post.

---

I agree with both of you. I really feel like we're just going to set things back if both sides keep talking like this. Credit to Mcshiggs and Altijacek for being rational about it.

I don't like the lack of options for my LGB (I've left the T off because I'm not sure how this one affects them as much, but I'm more than open to an explanation on that one) friends and I really hope that, if nothing else, it just quietly turns out that there aren't any gender restrictions on the unions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elven

Do you not see the irony? now you are bringing in our real world thinking into this game ignorant of how Eorzea may have passed this way of thinking. It's amusing to say the least that you keep over looking this point.

---

Wherein lies the irony? All I say is that discrimination is discrimination. Who am I discriminating by questioning a discriminating system? Sure, ignorant you might call me, maybe I am. But I find it that this would be an unnecessairy limitation that would cause more harm than good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demetirus

(I've left the T off because I'm not sure how this one affects them as much, but I'm more than open to an explanation on that one)

---

T often gets lumped in with L/G because a straight woman who happens to have been born with a male body, but who still falls in love with male people, is popularly perceived as gay; a straight man who happens to have been born with a female body, who falls in love with female type people is often seen as lesbian.

Unfortunately, it's also true that a gay woman who was born with a male body is often seen as taking the long road home.

In short, LGB is about who one falls in love with; T is about who one is. They are only tangentially related.

Second Life Reborn!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phe

*le sigh*

LGBT telling SE how to design their own game.

again.

japan is a land with priority on classical family values.
don't like it?
play a western MMO.

---

If that's the case then SE should have released FFXIV in Japan and only in Japan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nahaara

If that's the case then SE should have released FFXIV in Japan and only in Japan.

---

you know there are quite some good JRPGs out there also in NA even without gay content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoLo

That was my whole point. American's thinking that their political views should be pandered to because they can't see past their bubble.

---

Ah, sorry. I'm with you now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeniLinsky

T often gets lumped in with L/G because a straight woman who happens to have been born with a male body, but who still falls in love with male people, is popularly perceived as gay; a straight man who happens to have been born with a female body, who falls in love with female type people is often seen as lesbian.

Unfortunately, it's also true that a gay woman who was born with a male body is often seen as taking the long road home.

In short, LGB is about who one falls in love with; T is about who one is. They are only tangentially related.

---

Ah, I guess I've never seen my T friends get classified as being L/G just for being T, even before transitions etc. That's likely where my confusion stems from. This is a whole new level of confusing for me, but thanks so much for the input!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phe

you know there are quite some good JRPGs out there also in NA even without gay content.

---

I can't think of a single MMO I've played that has anything remotely approaching non-hetero content or even references to homosexuality. Offline RPGs are a different matter entirely but most of them represent gay male characters as comedic and overly effeminate while lesbians are lascivious jerk material. Producers of both genres clearly find it easier, and more profitable, going with the mob mood. If the majority of the playerbase both in-game and out called for this and showed support via their wallets I'm sure you'd see a sudden relaxing of their stance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

I can't think of a single MMO I've played that has anything remotely approaching non-hetero content or even references to homosexuality. Offline RPGs are a different matter entirely but most of them represent gay male characters as comedic and overly effeminate while lesbians are lascivious jerk material. Producers of both genres clearly find it easier, and more profitable, going with the mob mood. If the majority of the playerbase both in-game and out called for this and showed support via their wallets I'm sure you'd see a sudden relaxing of their stance.

---

Actually, if you want a reference to homosexuality (or possibly bisexuality), I can think of one instance in FFXIV where it's pretty blatant... There's a quest at the Forgotten Springs where a Miqo'te is bathing and she asks you to chase off the creepy stalkers that are ogling her. Once you do, she admits that if it was YOU doing the ogling, she wouldn't necessarily mind as her tastes do run that way - which, if you're playing a female character, is a pretty clear message.

In FFXI, too, the Wings of the Goddess expansion introduced the first male Mithra of the game, Lehko Habhoka - a shameless flirt who comes on to the player character pretty strongly regardless of what gender he or she is.

To be fair, in both these cases it's not so much deliberately introducing a homosexual character as it is not adjusting their dialog based on the gender of the player character, but if SE was truly harboring an anti-gay agenda they could have easily varied their dialogs.

Well as long they also add a divorce quest where afterwards you lose half of what you own to your significant other got to keep it real.