Yoshi-P: Atma drop % = "it's just luck"

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Originally Posted by kiraan

hmmm brb i have some myth farming to do :p

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I wouldn't hold my breath on i115 weapons in 2.28. There's a reason the weapons that drop from t9 are 5 ilevels higher than all other gear including other coil gear (and t5 drops were similarly 5 ilevels above in 2.1). If you think about it, a 15 ilevel jump in 1 step seems very fast anyway. That graph could be interpreted as simply meaning that relic upgrades will continue to the level of High Allagan and possibly beyond while the other gear is not planned to progress beyond the upgrades that already are in the game.

It's possible, of course, but I would wait for 2.28 to drop first and see what Novus actually is if you're only farming myth for an i115 weapon.

The Atma solution is really... REALLY simple.

You give the alchemist guy one... ONE set of 12 Atma. Done. He can now upgrade any weapon.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

The Atma solution is really... REALLY simple.

You give the alchemist guy one... ONE set of 12 Atma. Done. He can now upgrade any weapon.

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That was the change they made on beastmen seals.

Just pray it isnt grounds to nerf the i115 concept.

http://i.imgur.com/mvFrM3l.gif

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

That was the change they made on beastmen seals.

Just pray it isnt grounds to nerf the i115 concept.

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There is no "i115 concept".

That Famitsu chart is not saying that the Novus is going to be i115. It's saying that the relic will continue to be upgraded, to and beyond the highest current iLevel of weapon - it doesn't say when it's going to reach that iLevel, and it doesn't even seem to know that the next level of the upgrade is called "Novus".

That chart is not intended to be a scoop of new information for players waiting on tenterhooks for secret insider information on the development of the game; the article that it's from is clearly intended to be a simple breakdown of the methods of acquisition, pros and cons, and sources of upgrades for current weapons, aimed at people who don't know the ins and outs of the various endgame weapons available in 2.2.

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Originally Posted by Crater

There is no "i115 concept".

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You DO know what concept means, yes? /smh

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

You DO know what concept means, yes? /smh

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Well okay but if we're literally talking about the intangible concept of an i115 Relic weapon then I don't think we need to be worried about whether or not anything is going to cause it to get 'nerfed' because it's a hypothetical idea and doesn't strictly require that FFXIV even exist, let alone that it adhere to the design principles of the game's developers.

I'm not so sure he's being 100% honest here. If you notice, he even SPECIFICALLY asks if the guy had run FATEs with time, as per some "occult rumors." Square likes to do little things like this, then keep their mouths shut and never admit to it. Why would they change now?

Well, I am officially giving up on attempting to get my atmas as long as this obscene system is in place. I've been grinding at least an hour a day at fates since its advent.

Mind.

Numbingly.

Boring.

Fates.

It's just not worth it. I am not challenged, I am not having fun. I have no indication of actual progression. It's like playing russian roulette when 98.5% of the time every chamber in the weapon is loaded.

Whomever designed this inane system needs to be drawn, quartered, and defiled on live TV. And then have their arse fired while the masses celebrate
.

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Originally Posted by Tinker

Well, I am officially giving up on attempting to get my atmas as long as this obscene system is in place. I've been grinding at least an hour a day at fates since its advent.

Mind.

Numbingly.

Boring.

Fates.

It's just not worth it. I am not challenged, I am not having fun. I have no indication of actual progression. It's like playing russian roulette when 98.5% of the time every chamber in the weapon is loaded.

Whomever designed this inane system needs to be drawn, quartered, and defiled on live TV. And then have their arse fired while the masses celebrate
.

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The challenge is patience.

Some find it too difficult.

Many do not.

I can accept this.

Has anyone done a poll of sorts on how many people got their animus? I'm quite curious about how many people are still not done with the atma grind

We currently have ~7 / 68 full atmas in my guild, with the majority averaging at 6/12.

Of those with full atmas, 2 Got theirs in under a day, and 3 within 3 days.

Just to play the devils advocate here. While he said that it's just luck, he did not say that there is no reason to increase it.

After all, 2%, 10% and 20% all need luck to get. ;)

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

The challenge is patience.

Some find it too difficult.

Many do not.

I can accept this.

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It's neither a challenge nor is it difficult to hop on a wheel like a hamster and peddle mindlessly if your brain is wired to do boring, repetitive, zero-skill tasks ad infinitum.

The truth of the atma quest is it was meant to be a reward for casual players but in true S-E style its implementation is hidden behind an insulting blatant content-prolonging timesink that only the hardcore crowd (read hardcore as jobless/employed but socially bereft/students) or the lucky few have benefited from.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

The truth of the atma quest is it was meant to be a reward for casual players

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Fun part is this RNG makes it harder for them than hardcore players. If a casual player can play 2-3 hours each day he should waste all his time doing FATEs? even if he just does 5-10 fates daily, he's gonna spend waaaaaay more time than a hardcore player, even having luck.

Right now i work, but when i was at collegue, i could play only 3-4 hours ON WEEKENDS. From that 3-4 hours, you'd have to "waste" 30-60-90 minutes with a daily roulette/tribe quest if you want to have myth/sold tomestones.... should i waste the few minutes i have left doing fates? if this game were "born" 2 years ago i'd be unable to do any content because i'd waste a lot ot time doing my "routinal quests".

Now i can play all days, so i'm not "casual" anymore... and only NOW i have enough time to do something more than "routinal quest". This game is not casual friendly, which it was supposed to be...

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Originally Posted by Merle

Fun part is this RNG makes it harder for them than hardcore players. If a casual player can play 2-3 hours each day he should waste all his time doing FATEs? even if he just does 5-10 fates daily, he's gonna spend waaaaaay more time than a hardcore player, even having luck.

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Exactly. The system that was designed for the casual playerbase couldn't be anymore anti-casual.

Guess you guys never experienced Dynamis and the several sets of BST gear that dropped.

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

Guess you guys never experienced Dynamis and the several sets of BST gear that dropped.

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That's because Dynamis wasn't Casual content. Look to something like Trial of the Magians for an equivalent and you'll see how more casual-friendly that was compared to this rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Gextiv

It really is luck.

On my first attempt to get an ATMA in Western Thanalan, I got my ATMA..

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Funny enough, that's basically how it started for me. Accepted the quest, sat on my chocobo in North Shroud looking at Fates pop, cycling through. I kept expecting a Fate with the name of the Atma, or something on it, while looking for any info available at the time (mind you this is a few hours after 2.2 went live so there wasn't a lot of info yet available). Then someone said it was just FATEs that were already in game. Oh, well ok, so I went to the first FATE nearest me..Atma of the Archer. Oh, well that was easy, this doesnt seem so bad. So I logged off, went to bed, came back the next day, started farming in the next area.....and continued to farm for several, several hours. Maybe I should've kept going when I got the first one lol

I did end up completing it, after a week or so, cant even begin to say how many hours worth. I know I did over a thousand FATEs though, because the only other time I did FATEs was for leveling Arcanist and most of that was storyline exp and dungeon runs anyways. Fun times, fun times..

So i tried my luck and literally got all 12 pieces in about 20-24 hours or so.
The first 10 hours or so i managed to grind till my eyes were like " wtf where am i, oh yea..... IM DOING FATES SPAMMING STONE AND AERO LOL" .
I managed to get 8 pieces in tht 10 hours.
The next day i logged on to get my last 4 pieces.
I played for like 12 hours straight and finally got all 4 drops, the 3 atmas before the atma of the crab were fast to get..... But the atma of the crab took like the remaining 7 hours.
When i finall got the atma of the crab from the fate that had a giant crab in it. I was like
.-_-. Wtfffffffffffffffff coincedence?
Never again will i grind this hard, it made me feel terrible and i don't think others should have to experience this.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Never again will i grind this hard, it made me feel terrible and i don't think others should have to experience this.

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This is the saddest part. Once you're done with the 12 atmas, you don't have a feeling of accomplishment, but a relief: "pheeew.... is done. No more!!!!"

Like the atma book farm. I really felt relieved once i got my Animus. Told be truth, the shine of my Sphairai Animus made me smile and think "i did it". But hell.... i won't do a second Animus. I'm done.

You actually can have fairness on both sides with the atma quest. Simply making something akin to shards dropping that can be traded into an npc for a full stone. This way you can still have the random drop of a full stone to alleviate time in a particular area and at the same time reward people eventually who remained dedicated for hrs to obtain just one atma from an area.

Personally, the grind hasn't been bad for me at all. I really started last Friday. I started Friday morning, and got my first Atma weapon Friday night, for my Paldin, my main class. Saturday, did FATE's all day again, and got my 2nd Atma weapon for my Warrior saturday night. Sunday, again,, did fates all day, and received my 3rd atma halfway through the day. 3rd Atma weapon was for my monk. Now, I have 11 Atma crystals for my 4th weapon, and it will probably go to my Scholar. I plan on getting them for every class. Most people complain that they do FATE's for hours with no drops, but i see a lot of people do maybe 5-10 FATE's, then quit. You will never get Atma that way. They also only do 1 or 2 FATE's on the map. If you want Atma weapons, it's all about doing as much FATE's per hour as you can. It's a challenge too sometimes, just getting there before the FATE is over. Set a goal, say 40-50 FATE's per hour, and try to reach that goal. Most FATE's are over in 2 minutes or less.

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Originally Posted by Jefu

Personally,i got uber lucky, therefore the grind isnt bad

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....right. the atma grind sux, plain and simple.


edit before you assume anything, i have 1 animus and 2 atma weapons and working on a 4th one. just because i have them doesnt mean i dont realize it still ballz

03/05

I found that as long as I stuck with it, and did as many FATE's as I could per hour, that I almost always got an Atma within 40 FATE's. Rarely did it take me 2 or 3 hours in a zone to get one. I can understand getting lucky, but to be lucky for 3 days in a row, all day long. The drop rate is really higher than the 1% everyone mentions. I do believe it's either a 3% or 5% drop rate, but even at 5%, that doesn't mean you will get one after 20 FATE's. That means you have a 5% chance EVERY fate to get one, so you just keep trying and you will have them all before you know it. The main thing is to not give up and do lots of FATE's really fast. 2 people can also get Atma at the same time. Me and my FC mate both got the Atma of the Goat at the same time, from the same FATE, but we were not in a party. Just solo with our chocos. I've also had 2 or 3 Atma of the same type drop within 30 minutes on the same zone multiple times. Mainly Water Bearer and Scorpion.

Well, then again, I'm an old school Final Fantasy player, and i'm used to grinds, and actually like them i guess. Everyone says, Oh this game is too easy, blahblahblah, there's nothing to do i've beaten everything. They also complain cause everyone has a relic zenith now, and you can buy carries for Allagan weapons and stuff. So SE puts something in to take a long time, so these people have something to do, then they want a nerf. Yeah it's low level fates, but if they would have put the Atmas as rare drops in Coil or something, people would just scream for nerfs and echo there too. Thing is you can't please everyone, and you do have other options, like levi or weathered weapons, but the drop rate for unidentified tomestones and mirrors are worse than Atma, so pick your choice. I like the idea cause you can't buy them this time, and it shows that you worked your ass off to get these weapons, even though it's not hard FATEs, but you still have to put in the hours to get it.

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Originally Posted by Jefu

Well, then again, I'm an old school Final Fantasy player, and i'm used to grinds, and actually like them i guess. Everyone says, Oh this game is too easy, blahblahblah, there's nothing to do i've beaten everything. They also complain cause everyone has a relic zenith now, and you can buy carries for Allagan weapons and stuff. So SE puts something in to take a long time, so these people have something to do, then they want a nerf. Yeah it's low level fates, but if they would have put the Atmas as rare drops in Coil or something, people would just scream for nerfs and echo there too. Thing is you can't please everyone, and you do have other options, like levi or weathered weapons, but the drop rate for unidentified tomestones and mirrors are worse than Atma, so pick your choice. I like the idea cause you can't buy them this time, and it shows that you worked your ass off to get these weapons, even though it's not hard FATEs, but you still have to put in the hours to get it.

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No one cares about the grind. Everyone is up in arms about the fact that it's boring, mindless anti-content that we're handing over money for. It isn't the least bit fun, stimulating, or entertaining.

Your experience with Atma farming is an extremely lucky one. There are people who's been working on this steadily since the patch hit and still don't have it. I just went 10hrs without a drop and that's nothing compared to the crap some people have suffered through. There's no defense for this fun-killing crap.

I don't mind it though, and sometimes it actually can be a challenge. For instance, when you are trying to get Atma of the Lion, Scorpion, or Crab, instead of doing the "boring mindless" lv 7 FATE's all around the map, march into the Beastman Stronghold alone with only your choco, and Solo a lv 45-49 FATE. Especially one with like 20 mobs running around hitting you from everywhere. Makes you pay attention, and play your class to the better of your ability, or you die lol. Or you could just stick with the lv 7 FATE that is boring indeed, and dies in like 20 seconds. You have to make it fun, i always try to race everyone and get to the FATEs first, or kill as many as I can, but i'll hold back to let people get a kill or too sometimes so they get credit. There are just going to be those who hate it, and those who don't mind it. I don't mind it. Yes i know i've been lucky, but for 3 days in a row, all day long, and then all week, the few hours i've played during the week, gotten 11 so far.

I can't count how many times i've literally seen people Tele to an area, see the same people for maybe 10-15 FATE's, then never see them again. Either means they got their atma, or gave up. It takes patience really, and most people in this game do not have it. You don't stay lucky for entire weeks at a time. If i do 3 times the amounts of FATE's you do, i have 3times the chance to get it, that's why people have a hard time. They don't do hard NM FATE;s, they just do the "kill 10 wolves" Fates or something and that's it, and spend half the hour waiting on the same FATEs to pop. I just don't understand how i could be lucky 3 full days in a row, then all week long, and i will probably get at least 2 more weapons this weekend, based on how they are dropping for me. Maybe my PS3 just has the best RNG ever. lol

But A LOT of people do care about the grind. Forgetting the other options, but then even Levi takes farming and grinding to receive that God awful mirror or mount drop, and if people can actually even beat the new coil turns to have a shot at the new unidentified tomestone. And you have the added frustration of putting up with asses or people ninja looting. It all takes grinding, and the Atma stones are the easiest grind. At least you can make money by buying cokes and selling them. lol get rich They also seemed to drop better for me when I went in order, Starting with Maiden, and then going down the list. Less than 24 hours every time for the 4 i have so far. (Missing 1 stone for my 4th but that won't take long)

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Originally Posted by Jefu

They don't do hard NM FATE;s

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This is all that I did after noticing a pattern on drops after my 7th atma and I started to get the last 5 at a faster rate than running around like a headless chicken attacking every single FATE that popped.

Yes you don't understand how it can be lucky because you're using your own luck as the sample and yes, you have absurd RNG luck if you're not just trolling everyone. Also, not even the uncapped FATEs, such as those in Ughamoro, are a challenge in any way unless you are extremely undergeared.... which... we're not... because we all have Zenith. People do -all- the fates. People are more apt to do the higher level crap for the simple fact that it's a nice change up having access to all of our abilities for a change. There are very few people who sit on a FATE pop.

I played FFXI for over a decade and I even enjoyed the grindy relic upgrade quests, meripos, and all the other grindy content. I'm 50 in all trades/jobs/classes, permanently stock every 2-star and 3-star item, paid for 99.9% of my FCs large plot with my own gil, and have routinely crafted for 50+ hours straight on weekends to keep up with sales demand... none of that phases me... People couldn't care less about a grind. People care that ATMA farming is retarded game design created with the express purpose of keeping mouth breathers busy while they add more content. Coincidentally, it's that exact approach to "content" development that led to my quitting XI and it's why an abnormal number of people are dropping subs in this game.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

This is all that I did after noticing a pattern on drops after my 7th atma and I started to get the last 5 at a faster rate than running around like a headless chicken attacking every single FATE that popped.

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That's just a placebo. Also, at the rate FATEs are burned there's really no point to only do boss fights. Sure if I have to choose I'll always take the boss fight because at least the NM design has more flavour to it and it's anecdotally entertaining but there certainly appears to be no correlation between FATE type and RNG success.

Oh I assure you I'm not trolling. If you were on Ragnarok, I'd even come show you my Atma weapons. People make this seem a lot worse than it is. Yes it takes time, a lot. You may have to do 100 fates before you get it. And there may be people like you, if you are telling the truth, and do many FATEs a day and are just unlucky. But i know for a fact that many people do a couple fates, then sit AFK forever, and the first thing you hear them say is "i've been here for 45 hours." Yes you have been here for 45 hours, and 40 hours of it was AFK while you watched netflix or something. 5% drop rate isn't too bad either, if you ever played FFXII and tried to get Zodiac Spear(less than 1% drop) or seitengrate(1/10k chance) that's a bad drop rate. When i'm getting 12 Atma in less than 24 hours, multiple times, it just can't be that bad. I've had to do over 100 FATE's for a couple of my Atma too, but that is very very rare. Animus and Atma are everywhere on Ragnarok so it can't be too bad.

And we all know that 1 reason they did this was to bring life back to the FATE system for new players. Another reason I believe, is so that people can't say "Get your Relic weapon today. (Insert Name) FC selling Atma runs. Sit back and get your Atma and loot. 450k gil. Now there's only 1 way to get them, and people hate that. But none of the new weapons are too easy to get, levi's lv 95 weapon the easiest, and it's not as good as Animus. If there was a way to give you guys my luck, I would cause I'd like to see everyone get at least 1 Atma weapon. But a lot of people that complain just don't put the time into that they claim, and for those of you who do put the time in, sorry for your luck. Hope you get it just keep trying. Or wait for a couple of patches, when they will eventually raise the drop rate to 100% because people are going to keep suggesting it. They didn't want you to have your Animus weapon 1 day after patch, and everyone wants it right now. Or it's not fair.

OP, the grind is only the beginning ;p

Try to put yourself in other peoples' shoes.... you keep saying stuff along the lines of "I got mine in no time so it isn't that bad." This is also condradictory to your comment that they don't want people to get it one day after patch.... If some people can get it in less than 24 hours of farming that IS one day after patch, potentially, while others have worked at it since the patch hit and still have nothing to show for it.

We get it... you're crazy good at winning the RNG slot machine "content" and addicted enough to think it constitutes good game design. I'm happy for you. A lot of people don't share your luck though. It took my gf close to two weeks of -aggressively- farming Atma nonstop for 6-8 hours per day to get all 12. Most of the people in my FC and linkshells share that exact same experience, or worst. I'm personally only at about 30 hours of farming but it's now been 26 hours since I've seen an Atma drop. Yes, we all have our Zeniths on and the quest active. No, our inventories aren't full. You're just luckier than most people. Congratulations.

I know you're not trying to come across as offensive but the attitude that "it was easy for me so everyone else must just not be trying hard enough" and effectively accusing everyone of lying about how much effort they're putting in really makes my blood boil so I'm ending this conversation.

I did put myself into other's perspective. I just said I started Atma quest last Friday(6/6/14). I started cause everyone in my FC said, this is stupid it's hard ridiculous. so i thought i'd start the long grind. Then I got the weapon in less than 24 hours. So i said, I must be very lucky, lets try again. Another Atma in less than 24 hours..... Ok let's try a 3rd time since i'm so lucky. Another Atma under 24 hours... You can't be super uber lucky that many times. in a row. did it again, another 11 Atma, and will finish it this weekend. ALSO, I haven't contradicted myself. Yes I said they don't want you to have Animus after 1 day. And I don't. Mind you, I said Atma weapons. Now, I could upgrade them to Animus, and I could upgrade 1 weapon in less than 24 hours, doing dung's all day long, and nothing but that. But 90% of people don't do that, so you won't have them in 1 day. The people who do are spamming Brayflox.

But I know I've seen at least 100 Atma weapons on Ragnarok. Soo many bards. Now think across all the servers. That many people getting them are just not super lucky. Everyone makes this seem like it's odds are equal to the weekly Mega Millions or something lol. I'm sorry you apparently have really bad luck, don't know what to tell you except keep trying. I did, and got mine. I had people in my FC just like you guys, do a couple FATEs, then give up cause it's not working. I told them to stick with it, even running South Thanalan with them until they got it. Yes, I got 3 Scorpions in the time he got 1. That was luck. But my point was proven that he got it in less than an hour, because he stayed there for more than 10 Fates. Go back and look at peoples complaints. You see, done a few FATEs. Hate it. Not doing Atma anymore. Hate FATEs. More time is really spent complaining than hunting, by most people. anyway, tired of arguing. good luck hope you get it.

I think the problem is the loss of control with the RNG. We LOOOOVE control and RNG takes that away. Think of Soldery tomes, most people don't mind that because we have CONTROL over how much Soldery tomes we get. We can do alotta Brayflox for alotta Soldery, or we can decide to take a break and not do any dungeons. Everytime we do Brayflox we KNOW we will get further to our goal of buying that wicked awesome Daystar robe. We can CONTROL when we get that robe. We can do alot of the Bray, get a bunch of Soldiery, and get the Daystar robe as soon as we can (Soldiery caps and all). Every time we do Bray, we are that much closer to our goal.

We lose that CONTROL when doing ATMA. We have NO CONTROL AT ALL if the thing will drop or not. Tell me, how is it fair that I can walk into a zone, do a FATE just in passing and grab an Atma, while Joe Blow has been in this same zone for 3 days and STILL hasn't gotten his atma after 500 FATEs. That rewards the lucky and punishes the unlucky. We can't control if we're lucky or not.

just started farming the Atmass lst night, so far 3 hours for 3 Atmas. Fish, crab, and scale