None of this changes the fact that the class lacks any depth though. If you read my above post I only talked about the "holy knight" thing as 1 of 6 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecreuset
Paladins need to actually be Paladins.
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04-22-2014, 08:00 AMJubez187
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04-22-2014, 08:11 AMViridianaWhy does BLM require ARC 15 to access? ARC being Archer, not ACN being Arcanist. By your logic, this is a clear indicator that BLM is going to have some degree of archery attached to it. >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyros
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04-22-2014, 08:12 AMAltaecianaI agree w/this post. Paladin does not need to be a holy magic fighter. Paladin is by right a true Warrior of Light. Maybe the OP had meant to say that Paladin should be renamed in the game. Just because a mass majority of other games set the ideal of what a Paladin is simply cannot be enough to justify what defines a Paladin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardes
Let's go to our friend http://dictionary.com
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Originally Posted by http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paladin?s=t
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04-22-2014, 08:21 AMLuxx
ppl are being so technical lol....
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Paladin
going from the final fantasy terms and XI...
the game is very watered down when it comes to skills.
the only one worth some talk is stoneskin and well...if like a sch it in
a 4 man run
doesnt have it from cross class then i guess that is cool and works out.
but as it stands they try to make white magic cool for pld and its retarded so they dropped the ball here.
hope for change coz yes pld are boring. oo -
04-22-2014, 08:26 AMMcshiggsI say if we are going to decide what a paladin should be straight from other Final Fantasy games, let's go to where it started, the original Final Fantasy where the fighter class that changed into a knight and was then able to use white magic. So I say if you want your holy paladin in XIV, you should first go fetch a rat's tail and then find a way to give it to Bahamut.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luxx
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04-22-2014, 08:55 AMOrca
For me, i'm not especially bothered about the theme semantics, however I have played gladiator as my main since 1.0 alpha testing. It's been my main in every patch to date and right now, it is currently the most boring it has ever been for me. The challenges it presents are only from the tanking role and absolutely not the job itself, which offers zero technicality.
The first versions of FFXIV Paladin in 1.0 had; cure and stoneskin, but was capable of using them on AoE when used with a specific cooldown. The cure wasnt great but damn better than what we got now. A buff that applied a group HoT when hit by a cure from another member. A strong single target cure that returned HP to the paladin, and a block move that converted one physical attack from an enemy in to HP. Add this to current defensive buff rotations (most of which we had back then too) and your enmity combos, and honestly it was damn fun and worked great. I live with current pld sure, but in 2.0 i was amazed at how stripped down it had become. It works, its balanced, but god, its so bland. I used to feel very much like i was protecting and supporting my group as a defensive tank but now i dont feel like im interacting with my group on this job outside of cover. Especially since my LB doesn't get much use!
I keep up the hope that future patches will add more job abilities with supportive elements, not because Paladin needs a buff, but because it lost so much depth. The conjurer abilities provide no use for a 2.0 Paladin besides an occasional Stoneskin and we could easily do without it. Whilst the armory system was an integral part of 1.0, it is an afterthought in 2.0 and I feel like SE is a bit more...conservative in what they let jobs use in comparison to a lot of other MMOs now. I'm interested in Yoshida's hybrid role in the future as a tank/healer is really right up my alley, but i wish that could have been PLD, as i do love the sword and board. -
04-22-2014, 04:00 PMDuelleYou forget that 1.0 was not designed according to the trinity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca
With the amount of mitigation PLD has been given, "stronger" cures and the recovery skills it had access to in 1.0 would border if not be outright OP, as you'd have a job that has good mitiation and heals that would allow it to stand longer than intended. Not mentioning that mechanics that belong on healers (Divine Veil, Holy Succor) should not be part of a tank class. -
04-22-2014, 11:50 PMRednightA bit off-topic, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
I doubt i would use that... When do PLDs use Riot Blade combo? When they tank multiple mobs at once (speed runs) and have to spam Flash like no tomorrow. That 250 HP cure won't save you when 15 mobs hitting away at you, but it might kill your BLM if you use too many GCDs for cure instead of hate generation...
To me, the only thing PLD lacks a bit is AoE hate. I would rather want an enmity AoE attack as finisher for Riot Blade combo (something like Steel Cyclone or Overpower with maybe less potency), so PLDs could use that as a multi target hate combo (Riot Blade for MP for more Flash, but also an enmity AoE finisher that uses TP). With Flash, WAR has 3 enmity AoEs, while PLD only has 2... -
04-22-2014, 11:56 PMLord_Zlatan
I would prefer if riot blade combed with stoneskin and gave it the 18% that a who can get. ^^
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04-23-2014, 12:13 AMLord_Zlatanthere are others that should be there though, which I will list in a moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Also, potency on cure ETC could be stronger if: it generated more enmity, but physical attacks dealt less damage. You know, so there is actually a difference between WAR and PLD. They are both just meat shields. Let WAR have a boost in DPS while letting the PLD be the king of mitigation.
some things they need to have:
Reprisal, Phalanx, Regen (weaker than whm obv), Curaga (combos with riot blade: heals for a % of HP = % of MP remaining, empties MP pool, adds refresh, enmity generated -1). Judgement Spikes 10% chance to reset the duration of blind (via flash) on hit (only usable under the effect of Shield Oath). En-Light (only useable while under the effect of Sword Oath) : 10% chance to reset the duration of blind (via flash) on hit, Attack Potency 20. Tempered Will - negates the effects of Terror, Curse, Bind and Heavy if used Pre-emptively. -
04-23-2014, 12:14 AMLord_Zlatan
^ I will add explanations to the other abilities if people want explanations.
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04-23-2014, 12:56 AMMcshiggsSo basically a self benediction combo that restores MP with riot blade and adds refresh, couple that with ballad and why even have a healer in the group, the paladin will be able to keep himself alive through just about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
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04-23-2014, 01:04 AMLord_ZlatanIf there are other reasons to actually use MP outside of Flash and Stone Skin, then your MP would be lower. In the current state of the game yeah its OP as all hell but this thread is about making paladins more like paladins from throughout the series. They have always been able to wield magic as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcshiggs
Furthermore, the enmity generation debuff on the ability would make it so you are not +1 on the list any more. perhaps a bad choice of wording. Its an oh shit button, or in non-progression content, it allows healers to DPS more.
Im all for the criticism as this thread is just fantasy land but I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that simply giving a class a bunch of defensive CDs and calling them a Paladin is a bit of a disservice to other Paladins from the series. -
04-23-2014, 01:12 AMMcshiggsThis isn't the paladin from the rest of the series, it is the paladin from XIV, you still have magic through cross classing conjurer skills, if it's not strong enough maybe complain about that instead of demanding that they change the entire job and quest line, which is about being the rock between your enemies and friends with the ability to stand there and take abuse, nothing about holy magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
As to the oh shit button, you say curaga would be, it wouldn't really work like that since it would be the 3rd ability of a chain, nothing like oh shit, fast blade, gcd, riot blade, gcd, curaga. As for the drop on the emnity list, just macro provoke after it, so it automatically puts you back on top of the threat list, and it goes back to self benediction combo that restores mp and adds refresh with no downside. -
04-23-2014, 04:08 AMOrophin
People just have to learn to adapt. I played Paladin in FFXI and WoW and they were completely different. Paladins in this game are essentially bodyguards to the royal family of Ul'dah, not a tank class that wields holy magic.
They honestly probably could have avoided this mess had they made MRD the required sub-class to unlock the job and CNJ to be the tertiary one. People only tend to use Stoneskin from CNJ anyway.
I miss the FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 style of Paladin but not much can be done about it now I'm afraid. -
04-23-2014, 04:44 AMGiantbaneWith the CNJ subjob it still has access to some holy magic, it's just not as powerful as it was in other games. ARR has more clearly defined roles, a tank is just for threat and damage reduction, not for a dedicated ability to heal. Thus the "heal" aspect must be diminished. However, I do think it would be nice if the PLD cure was a touch more useful at 50. It's usable at the lower levels (when you have much less health, but the potency isn't that much weaker), but at 50 it's basically worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
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04-23-2014, 04:56 AMGormogon
I feel ya OP. It is basically what has driven me away from a lot of jobs that I would have other wise played and enjoyed.
Dragoon dropped.
SMN dropped
Monk enjoyed playing it and leveling but dropped once end game just can't do that rotation for 5minutes without losing focus especially in this community.
Warrior dropped but forcing myself to play
For now I can only enjoy BLM.
Just how currently is. Hoping it gets better in the future by the time the expansion hits. -
04-27-2014, 11:45 AMLecreusetoh well I only meant that you're just a regular knight but for some reason they named it paladin :) I'm not saying you're wrong or anything on your other pointsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187