XIV is Not Being Remade for You/Us

mmo's new name should be aol chat cause it's all they are when they make them for casuals and solo play. to go from ffxi to what they plan for this one is a cop out. but at least solo and casual mmo's die out quick these days so we can all laugh when servers shut down on them. just like all planned obsolescence, i think american mmo's are just made to make the quick buck and die out and move onto the next one.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

First of all, people can't get into abyssea until they are level 30, not 1. Second, you have to find people willing to allow you to leech for 45 levels in order to do what you are describing. No easy feat. I say 45 because by then you are high enough level to realistically contribute in abyssea for the rest of the way to cap.

The non-abyssea portions of XI are still alive and well, available to anyone who wants to still enjoy that content. There are plenty of people out there who will regularly group in abyssea and then turn around and complain that abyssea ruined the game. In my mind, they are nothing more than hypocrites. They are actively making the choice to not enjoy the pre-abyssea content.

If SE switches gears and caps abyssea at 75 people will still complain about abyssea ruining XI. Why? Because the status quo has been impacted by abyssea's mere introduction. Their status as "elite" players was negatively impacted by their level no longer being the highest, their gear no longer being the "best." They resent the idea that they spent years getting to a certain point or getting such and such item and now someone can come to the game and be on even keel with them in a couple months. Said players would have rather seen XI spiral into a stale oblivion and stasis than see anything change because they were on the top and wanted to stay there. This issue isn't about the game. It never was. It is about ego, entitlement, and elitism.

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Thank you for summing up *exactly* how I feel about those that complain Abyssea 'ruined' XI. It's definitely thrown some of the game balance for a loop, but XI was never *ever* even remotely balanced, so that's not a huge impact. All it's really done is shifted the majority of playtime from being spent leveling to much more time being spent actually participating in game content. I love that I can actually do things like Dynamis or Salvage or Assaults or Missions with my friends now, instead of waiting a year for them to get to level cap.

@OP: I'm very torn on whether it's a good idea for them to aim for a wide audience. While I don't think they should make XI-2, that 'wider audience' is an incredibly fickle beast when it comes to new games. They're all ready to jump ship at the first sign of a new game, but they always end up going back to WoW after a month. So while I would like for FFXIV to capture that wider audience, so SE can have more money to invest into a better XIV experience, I just don't think they can do it. Many have tried before, and many will try again. While I think WoW is on it's way to becoming a niche game just because it's age is really starting to show, I think games like Star Wars: The Old Republic or Guild Wars 2 will be the ones to sweep in to take over that wider audience. Well, this is all from a US perspective. I'm not sure how it would be with EU, and I assume the game will do fairly well in JP.

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Originally Posted by Nikelz

So everyones supporting the casuals and saying xiv will be for the soloers and casuals and all the "hardcores" and "elitests" need to step back. Being a competitive natured player, can someone give me an example of a game that will satisfy my "hardcore" tendencies because all I see is a negative attitude towards those of us who are looking for an experience that requires us to step up our game.

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Nobody is saying that at all. At least not SE, and not in my OP. The game's solo play is being optimized, but Yoshida has said that the game will suit everyone's needs. One thing at a time though.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

If SE switches gears and caps abyssea at 75 people will still complain about abyssea ruining XI. Why? Because the status quo has been impacted by abyssea's mere introduction. Their status as "elite" players was negatively impacted by their level no longer being the highest, their gear no longer being the "best." They resent the idea that they spent years getting to a certain point or getting such and such item and now someone can come to the game and be on even keel with them in a couple months. Said players would have rather seen XI spiral into a stale oblivion and stasis than see anything change because they were on the top and wanted to stay there. This issue isn't about the game. It never was. It is about ego, entitlement, and elitism.

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Damn Wynn, layin' it down for all to see. I nominate this post for the Hall of Fame of FFXIV board posts.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

I'm sorry but this really isn't true. Let's take CoP for example. I'd like to say that CoP was my favorite expansion in FFXI (and other games) and really enjoyed it. There was difficulty in beating that expansion and the feeling of accomplishment and comrade-ship that went along with it was priceless. Now look at it, level-cap is gone along with any kind of "yay, Raja's ring=mine" feeling too.

But it just doesnt stop at CoP. Much of the other content (expansions, NM's, quests, etc.) has been greatly affected too. Since you can pwn/solo your way through so much of it now and solo NM's that you normally couldn't solo before. Even Whitegate and Besieged is deserted now too (everyone is at port jeuno instead).

There are some good things about Abyssea, but they should have limited the effectiveness of that place. Examples:
*You have to be level 70+ to enter
*The great armor, etc. has a latent effect that goes with it to where it ONLY TAKES AFFECT in Abyssea.

Just things like that.

I haven't really played FFXI much since last year. Mainly because I've been playing FFXIV since launch, but also because FFXI has become a different game. But, there are people out there that do like FFXI better post-Abyssea. And I admit that there are some enjoyable things with Abyssea. So, to each their own I guess.

I don't mind FFXIV being casual as long as it has hardcore aspects to it as well. Meaning that some of the best things/items take time, effort, etc. to acquire.

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They did the right thing by nerfing the game through Abyssea. The challenging content was only as good as the amount of people that had yet to complete it. FFXI's new player growth stalled out.. I'd say.. before TOAU hit. When I started playing FFXI for real in 2007, there were just a few handfuls of people scattered around the 2000 or so people on the server that were doing CoP missions every week. And most weeks there were 0 new players on the server. It is impossible for a few newcomers to go through all that challenging group content solo.. so their (feeble) decision was to raise the level cap so almost anyone could take on challenges of the game solo or duo. They lacked the expertise to figure out how to fix their situation because Tanaka is not what I would call a resourceful man. So they decided to raise all player's capability levels as an easy fix. Make no mistake, they saw the game as dying. Instead of revitalizing it, they did what presumably is all they could think of. Without this change though.. the game would be shut down after player populations dwindled and the prospects for starting fresh grew more and more harsh.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

FFXIV is being re-made to get the players currently playing WOW and other mmos or not playing mmos at all. They aim at reaching a wider audiance and hope of eventually getting a player base similar to what WOW has.

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WoW is starting to slowly lose its customer base. Rift grabbed some of those people. SWTOR will probably get a lot more since it is pretty much a blatant rip off of WoW gameplay wise. Chasing after a game that it at its peak is probably no good right now.

If FF is going to be designed to content with the up and comers, then it needs to do the things that they are doing, but better, or it needs to offer gamers something that they want and none of those other games satisfy.

Wasnt the "lets go for the wide audience" the thing that lost them tons of players (aside from the game being a disaster in the first place). The "wider audience" for the most part got their first taste, hated it, and moved onto other games....the first impression with any non-fan is fleeting.

What seems to be left are FFXI fans and the people who love FF or for some reason actually like the game...which isnt much. If anything they should be just trying to salvage the fans they have left, instead of going for the broad stroke, which they for the most part already lost. The PS3 might be the only re-taste the wide spread might get, but i have a feeling it wont work out...theres just too much to do (and im seriously doubting it will all get done before they have to shove out the PS3 version) and when you compare that to what will likely be out by then (SWTOR/Tera/GW2...ect) im gonna say its going to be slim pickings.

But hey, theres always the next MMO they are working on right?

Let me rephrase it again,

The OLD FFXI is attractive. It's Japanese style, graphic + gameplay. It had its player base, mostly Japanese as well as some English/European player worldwide, it had its' glory time, then it faded, it's ok.

The FFXIV fail at first, it had it's chance, but Yoshi-P fixs it by imitating some FFXI style, but mostly WOW style, hoping to get more player to jump.

I feel sorry to tell the fact that wow/blizzard player will never come, so is Korean game player, Chinese game player, Console game player... etc.

FFXIV has no unique style in my mind now, how can it be attractive? Solely by the old memeory of FFXI?

Yoshi-P never understand that, he just trying to sell as much copy as he can, like ps3 release, or china release, to cover the net loss, then FFXIV will soon be replaced in a year or 2, by SE itself.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

Wasnt the "lets go for the wide audience" the thing that lost them tons of players (aside from the game being a disaster in the first place). The "wider audience" for the most part got their first taste, hated it, and moved onto other games....the first impression with any non-fan is fleeting.

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No, the game being crap is what lost them players. This game should have zero audience atm... But the die hard fans are still here. "Wider audience" actually entails "wider audience". Millions of Japanese, French, German, and American players all co-existing in the same game and still having a very fun time regardless of whether they play 1 hour a week solo, or 18 hours a day with a group of 20+ friends.

A gaming company can aim for this. However, it doesn't mean they will succeed. I'm not arguing SE won't succeed either. I think if anyone can make this happen, during this generation of MMOs, it would be Yoshi P.

If you read this thread you can totally tell how players feel through likes lol.


btw i'd like to know if the drops in dungeons are gonna be like the other half ass drop system we have now. Because I know i barely trust 8 people in this game. Its the same sh*t from xi "i have a level 2 archer let me take this gear cause I'm gonna level it" even though there's a rank 50 archer standing right next to him. This "random drop" to person makes it worse, because its up to them to pass the loot to a person who deserves/needs it.

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Originally Posted by danny52844

oooo im sorry my spelling isnt perfect when will this forum be graded so that i may receive my F?

and who cares if they are alone they chose to be elitist they can play with other elitist or be alone on a game, its a game its ur choice if u play with ppl or not

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I'm most likely necroing this thread, but all I heard from this was "DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP".

yeah, this thread is 4 months old....

Necromancing the stone

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Originally Posted by weeble

mmo's new name should be aol chat cause it's all they are when they make them for casuals and solo play. to go from ffxi to what they plan for this one is a cop out. but at least solo and casual mmo's die out quick these days so we can all laugh when servers shut down on them. just like all planned obsolescence, i think american mmo's are just made to make the quick buck and die out and move onto the next one.

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LOL, you do realise that most gamers in the market these days are casual, the market for hadcore MMO's is so small they aren't worth developing for any longer, yes maybe there is a trend of casual mmos making a quick buck and dying out fast but as long as the company make a profit i doubt they care.

Yoshi-p is making a theme park and theme parks make lots of money /sarcasm.

P.s. If you want that old school kick in the nuts from a game go play FF11.

Let this thread die in a fire please, and ban whoever necro'd a 4 month old thread.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL, you do realise that most gamers in the market these days are casual, the market for hadcore MMO's is so small they aren't worth developing for any longer, yes maybe there is a trend of casual mmos making a quick buck and dying out fast but as long as the company make a profit i doubt they care.

Yoshi-p is making a theme park and theme parks make lots of money /sarcasm.

P.s. If you want that old school kick in the nuts from a game go play FF11.

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this guy probably doesn't post here anymore... this thread is super duper duder old (i.e. 4 months).

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Originally Posted by RemVye

this guy probably doesn't post here anymore... this thread is super duper duder old (i.e. 4 months).

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LOL I did think this after I realised how old this post was.. -.-

this thread is dumb. wanna know why the game failed upon release? it wasn't because it was too hardcore, it was because it wasn't even 50% finished. the thing didn't even feature sorting your inventory for pete's sake.

think a hardcore game can't succeed? demon's souls. game of the year.
dark souls. breaking sales since release.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL, you do realise that most gamers in the market these days are casual, the market for hadcore MMO's is so small they aren't worth developing for any longer, yes maybe there is a trend of casual mmos making a quick buck and dying out fast but as long as the company make a profit i doubt they care.

Yoshi-p is making a theme park and theme parks make lots of money /sarcasm.

P.s. If you want that old school kick in the nuts from a game go play FF11.

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old or not maybe u dont' get how they changed ffxi.. people keep repeating this but they still keep insisting ffxi is the place to go. also i left cause the game is 5years old, besides that i can care less if the world went casual, a theme park is a place u go once in awhile, you spend every dollar even on the few things you might enjoy.each area is made for different people to suck up your money. i live 5minutes from the boardwalk, you think i go there everyday to play balloon pop or skeet ball.

having half the content being something you don't enjoy doesn't get more people, least not people that will stay. that theme park magic he is spitting down your throat will wear off and then you still have just casual, or just people who enjoy hard content. jack of all trades, crappy at all i think is the saying. he even said that the next moogle battle will be harder then ifrit, you see a repetition there right? harder it seems for each one. questionably it will be who leaves and who don't and as the op says who it's made for.

also i don't even remember what the op wrote or what this thread was about ...good necro. but your points are ...pointless, repetitive garbage everyone keeps repeating. i think i made my point in the old post, we'll have to see how the game changes, and who stays and who will leave. and even then how long the game will even last since not many dont' seem to die out quickly. i know ffxi didn't. also there was no words of 2.0 before, i think the game might be great at 2.0, also most players can't even win dungeons so ...only real prob i have with this game is ..it's 1.5years away lol. but i'll wait, weither i'm in game or not, or if i take small breaks. i'm going no wear, maybe you should go back to ffxi since they made it a easy and boring game i hear.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

this thread is dumb. wanna know why the game failed upon release? it wasn't because it was too hardcore, it was because it wasn't even 50% finished. the thing didn't even feature sorting your inventory for pete's sake.

think a hardcore game can't succeed? demon's souls. game of the year.
dark souls. breaking sales since release.

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i don't think it was cause it was too hardcore, i think it was cause... No one could PL, no one could go afk to get leveled, no one could stare at there tv as easy and play, and you couldn't really duel bot. and like 90% of you want these things, yaaaaay.

demon souls was great, but i bet they get so many sales cause of all the word of mouth on how hard it is that everyone has to try it, or try the new one lol. jk but really fun game.

@ weeble Firstly did you notice the /sarcasm about the theme park .. guess you didn't.

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Originally Posted by weeble

maybe you should go back to ffxi since they made it a easy and boring game i hear.

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I am happy playing FFXIV thanks all the same but if i were to go somewhere it would probably back to WoW.

You mention the moogle is harder than Ifrit well, WoW is considered a casual game and that has fights many times harder than Ifrit so I don't see where you were trying to go with that logic.

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Originally Posted by weeble

old or not maybe u dont' get how they changed ffxi.. people keep repeating this but they still keep insisting ffxi is the place to go. also i left cause the game is 5years old.

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LOL.

Also, capitalization is your friend.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

@ weeble Firstly did you notice the /sarcasm about the theme park .. guess you didn't.



I am happy playing FFXIV thanks all the same but if i were to go somewhere it would probably back to WoW.

You mention the moogle is harder than Ifrit well, WoW is considered a casual game and that has fights many times harder than Ifrit so I don't see where you were trying to go with that logic.

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sorry i dont' do sarcasm very well, lmao it goes over my head. but were i was going was, that the direction the game is going is harder ..each content will probably keep getting harder. yeah there will be casual stuff to do, but the second they go backwards and they become easier they will lose people. if they keep getting to hard, they will probably lose people. i had to peek at the op but i think this one was about all the stuff they took out that made the game more casual. i didn't play wow but i can bet the hard stuff was at the start, then easy, then slowly hard again? just a guess cause i read alot about vanilla days or something lol i dunno, not play it.

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Originally Posted by Nikelz

So everyones supporting the casuals and saying xiv will be for the soloers and casuals and all the "hardcores" and "elitests" need to step back. Being a competitive natured player, can someone give me an example of a game that will satisfy my "hardcore" tendencies because all I see is a negative attitude towards those of us who are looking for an experience that requires us to step up our game.

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Go try to solo mine (preferably in a Hulk) in low sec or 0.0 in EVE. You'll end up with PTSD and probably extreme paranoia. If you screw up in EVE you lose your shit. Fly safe!

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

yeah, this thread is 4 months old....

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I've opened the floodgates, apparently.

Hey guys is it me or is this thread C[SIZE=5]OLD[/SIZE]

I love you, OP.

I don't see how Yoshida is turning this into another WoW clone, or to put it another way, "targeting the WoW audience". He's attempting to take the good from both old and new styles of MMORPGs, while also differentiating it from the competition (many of his proposed ideas are things we haven't seen before in the genre). If you want a true example of a WoW clone, look at The Old Republic.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

I don't see how Yoshida is turning this into another WoW clone, or to put it another way, "targeting the WoW audience". He's attempting to take the good from both old and new styles of MMORPGs, while also differentiating it from the competition (many of his proposed ideas are things we haven't seen before in the genre). If you want a true example of a WoW clone, look at The Old Republic.

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Or RIFT; but that's besides the point. It seems the game is just APPEALING to everyone. Not just DIRECTED at one single audience of gamers. Which I like; especially since I've been a casual gamer for awhile. I'm enjoying the new FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL, you do realise that most gamers in the market these days are casual, the market for hadcore MMO's is so small they aren't worth developing for any longer

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You might be able to do a hardcore rules server if you want to appeal to that crowd, but otherwise I agree with you.


However I would like to point out a counterargument of that since so few hardcore games are being made for that crowd one that appealed to those players might be able to get a large chunk of the niche. Having half a million players that stay with you for 5 years is probably sustainable as long as you keep the costs under control during development.

If autoattack, crafting oversimplification, dye screw up, and tons of other stupid ideas are anything to go by, you're right, FFXIV being made for a bunch of tasteless morons.

I agree. Final Fantasy XI is still out there. I would agree with an HD re-skin of the game for ps3 or psvita, but there's no point in having two Final Fantasy XI.

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Originally Posted by DamnCats

Dear Mr. Yoshida,
Player. Versus. Player.

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It would happen. Some of us like PvP and some of us like PvE only. Yoshi-P is thinking about it in the different way than other MMOs. It just takes more time to build one for PvE lovers to try it without being annoyed by other asshats. xP

Bring it on, Yoshi! ^_^

Smells like necro in here.

WOW! I seen necro bumbs usually 1-4 months but this...DAMN 0.o

Well, even though it is a necro. The title still holds true for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Well, even though it is a necro. The title still holds true for the most part.

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Yep, it's being made for a very specific group, no one who's played XI or XIV is part of that equation, over all there were between 16-60k actual players and throw in XI's 320-500k...no company would remake an MMO for that small amount of players, especially if they're not trying to get the XI players.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Well, even though it is a necro. The title still holds true for the most part.

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Except it is being made for us.. lol Us being the audience that will buy it (target audience) and in a quality that will allow SE redemption on its record..

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Except it is being made for us.. lol Us being the audience that will buy it (target audience) and in a quality that will allow SE redemption on its record..

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Don't know about you, but i'm not buying the game again. What they are fighting for however is my sub fees. It's being remade for everyone in a sense, but the target audience is definitely not the people that stuck around. I really don't get that vibe from A Realm Reborn.

Since this thread is back anyway....I think the current game is being made to try and cater to everyone as has been stated time and again. My major concern is that's it's only going to succeed in soliciting a lukewarm response from everyone because no one is getting 100% the kind of game they wanted. In a way, I feel it's stepping backwards from innovative ideas and trying to add in known successful formulas....which guarantees gameplay we've done before. Does the larger audience just want more of what they already have in Final Fantasy skins?