Lack of tanks in the game

Tank shortage makes tank a great role. They need you more than you need them. Don't worry about gear. Outside of your weapon, gear has minimal impact until 50. Just do your best to hold hate and not die. If the group doesn't like the job you do, let them kick you or leave. Either way, you'll have a new group ages before they do.

later when you are geared and speed pull dungeons, those same players will kiss your armored butt in appreciation!

People play the roles they want. Tanking is as much a skill as an artform, and yes, there is some small improvements needed to the tank classes, in particular is the threat generated by a fresh level 50 in a level 50 dungeon with a blackmage, summoner, etc who has been doing raiding.

Basically if you are new to the level 50 tanking role, and you are trying to gear up, there is no way in hell you can hold threat on a geared BM or Summoner, or hell even some of the geared healers. So this is where it gets tough. That is my main issue, the other issues lie in I feel traits like "Oath of Shield" should be open to you from say 30 plus.

I find most of the problems is that DPS just don't care alot of the times.

My tank hasn't hit 50 yet, but I haven't had any huge problems with my Warrior. Holding hate wasn't ever too difficult, and I definitely wouldn't want it to get too easy.

Tanking just isn't everybody's cup of tea, for different reasons. Some think it's boring, some dislike the current tanking class' aesthetics, and some think it's too much pressure. Point being, many people simply don't want to play as tanks. I don't think baiting people with rewards to play classes they don't really want to play in the first place is the right way to go. Instead, they should make the class itself more appealing, but not by making things too easy.

As for rudeness, I've had my fair share of mistakes, but so far everybody has been understanding and kind. I've yet to have anybody be a complete jerk to me. I've gotten good advice.

I"m sorry to say I main Paladin and every time i come into the forums and see people talking about tanks its quite disturbing. The lack of skill most DPS players have and the suggestions made by other tanks is quite insane.

People say titan hard mode is easiest on Paladin, while i felt that fight was ~insanely~ much much easier on monk.

The reason people dont play tank jobs is because most people lack the skill. If they made tanking easy then people like myself would be massively disappointed, more so than i am already after patch 2.1 with the boost in enmity gain, but also then tanking truly would be boring and no one would want to play it.

My suggestion to increase tanks is giving more bonuses to tanks via things like duty finder or other such bonuses. Give me all the stuffs, yes please :)

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Basically if you are new to the level 50 tanking role, and you are trying to gear up, there is no way in hell you can hold threat on a geared BM or Summoner

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You can just tell them "guys don't rush, i'm fresh 50" and thats it. PLD with GC weapon can easily hold aggro on relic-toting BLM, given a few seconds to raise threat. Even if you lose aggro after several hard nukes, mob will almost dead already.

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People say titan hard mode is easiest on Paladin, while i felt that fight was ~insanely~ much much easier on monk.

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How come? Tank job on Titan HM just "standing there", literally, and smack 1-2-3 till post-heart. Then add one defensive CD at start of the phase and after each Landslide.

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The reason people dont play tank jobs is because most people lack the skill.

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The only time some skill is really needed, its in high-end dungeons and Ex primals. But then everyone need skill, not just tanks.

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

You can just tell them "guys don't rush, i'm fresh 50" and thats it. PLD with GC weapon can easily hold aggro on relic-toting BLM, given a few seconds to raise threat. Even if you lose aggro after several hard nukes, mob will almost dead already.


How come? Tank job on Titan HM just "standing there", literally, and smack 1-2-3 till post-heart. Then add one defensive CD at start of the phase and after each Landslide.


The only time some skill is really needed, its in high-end dungeons and Ex primals. But then everyone need skill, not just tanks.

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says the guy with a bard as a main class! lol!

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says the guy with a bard as a main class! lol!

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Yeah, so what's your point? I've tanked all up to Coil/Ex primals on my alt job. Not that hard, really. :)

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

Yeah, so what's your point? I've tanked all up to Coil/Ex primals on my alt job. Not that hard, really. :)

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I wasn't questioning your ability to tank. Think about it man.

I don't agree with the approach of throwing gil and exp at people to make them want to tank and I think it can cause some issues.
1. The pointer in the game is to play what you think is fun, not fill in the gaps with a class you don't enjoy.
2. This is stacking favour more and more into tanks favour which is making it where people like myself are getting more and more advantages while DPS still stick to the disadvantage of waiting and or not finding a group.
3. I don't think it will solve the issue of needing 25% of the game population to be a tank even with the tank jobs being 2/9(22%) of the jobs. Also in the future there will most likely be more DPS and not as many tanks so that ratio will most likely fall.

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Originally Posted by Set

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There are plenty of tanks in game. But there's no reason to schedule for the easy content as time/reward ratio is way too low. And there's little sense to schedule for hard content with randoms as try/success ratio is way too low.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

[...]If they made tanking easy then people like myself would be massively disappointed, more so than i am already after patch 2.1 with the boost in enmity gain, but also then tanking truly would be boring and no one would want to play it.

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No one wants to play it now, it seems. Why is that then?

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

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This guy, this is a smart guy, I'd follow you if there was an option for it.

Something that really bugs me though is that MRD/WAR doesn't get the bonuses in Gil and EXP for the Duty Roulette, they want more Tanks but only Paladins are getting that extra compensation for Tanking. Good job SE

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Originally Posted by Huntington

Something that really bugs me though is that MRD/WAR doesn't get the bonuses in Gil and EXP for the Duty Roulette, they want more Tanks but only Paladins are getting that extra compensation for Tanking. Good job SE

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Well that's fucked up. Let's go burn down SE's company with torches.

Eh c'mon guys, the gilies come in handy. Personally I'm not 50 tank PLD yet, but working. However, the gil adds to the economy :) I wish they added more gil rewards, period.

I know you're all mad only PLD gets it, I don't even understand why MRD/WAR doesn't get it... But uh, let's attack the problem. There IS a shortage of tanks, and an overabundance of DPS, but there's more DPS classes... Think about it.
I think they should build a third tank job, it won't fix the problem but it will help the symptoms, eh?

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

Making tanking easier won't stop people from being rude, though. The *only* reason you eat the rudeness is because you're running at the front of the pack and everyone's focused on you. Most people aren't watching healers or other DPS, they're watching the boss, which way they're facing, where aggro is going. Tank is supposed to be an interactive role for the thick-skinned. My best advice to enjoy the class is to not take the rudeness personally. It's part of the fun for me, and honestly, I think if some people could realize that part of the fun of the role is doing a good job even when some people give you attitude over things that don't matter, they'd have more fun with it.

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Love this answer

Giving out extra compensation for tanking will only result in more people that can't tank running dungeons as tanks resulting in dps and healers being less inclined to be nice to new tanks, that in turn will make even less people main tanks and the spiral makes it's way downward. Is the answer to make it easier to tank? No, since right now it's not difficult to gain and keep threat. Is the answer to give people a bonus for playing as a tank? No, that will like I said only result in people unable to tank play tank simply to get that bonus... a bonus that I that main tank care little about.
Another fact that most seem to miss is that in every mmorpg there is always a shortage when it comes to tanks, the popularity of the roles goes like dps>healer>tank.

This game has the Worst threat generation which makes it so it is a tedious and annoying job. I hate running all over the place to get mobs off of DPS or Heals that run around when they get aggro and no matter how many times I tell them to take it to me or stand still they won't and I either run around trying to get it back and loose aggro on the mobs I still have or I don't and they die, I use Provoke and Tomahawk it is never enough. Also if the DPS are attacking a mob when I am trying to get a combo off to get threat then I loose the mob before I can get a full 2 to 3 attacks off, even if the healer uses 2 cures on me they end up with aggro. This game is the WORST tanking experience I have ever had which sucks because I love tanking. If they fixed it so that tanks had Much better threat generation I would play mine all the time but until they make it easier they are not going to have more people tanking just more people complaining and no longer playing the job.

People usually don't like to play tanks.They don't feel "usefull" i think.They think they don't have the feeling to "carry" their team.
Having a main char with only dps on it(and a tank leveling atm)and another char War-PLD and WHM,i can tell i REALLY like to tank but ONLY with the war.I can't stand with the PLD it's just boring as hell.But i do feel myself really useful.I feel "powerful" all time when playing tanks.
I just think people want the "easiest" way.There is nothing hard or easy in this game honestly it's all about teamplay.But well i still don't understand why there is low tanks in the game(and MMO in general actually)

well.. i've been tanks for various of dungeons and i'm leveling up my 2 tanks through dungeons and not fate.
it seems that i didn't have a problem about enmity whatsoever.

true that flash cost a lot of mana and overpower cost a lot of TP
but you can use 2-3 times for generate enmity for mobs
and also u can split the enmity weaponskills to all mobs thus spreading enmity is easier..

oh and also don't forget to check the enmity bar in your group

I don't actually find the state of tanks to be in any way broken or their gameplay hard to be honest. I remember, when playing vanilla WoW, how the party would need to use all it's crowd control whenever it could in order to make the simplest pulls work. Sheep this mob, sap the other one, hunter pull them in and hope no one AoEs the CC'd mob. By comparison the tanking in most modern MMOs is quite easy, you just need to know where to stand (and what to do) during a boss encounter.

I believe the main issue (as many others in this thread have already mentioned) lies with the antisocial mentality of the majority of DPS players out there. Damage Dealers are all about instant gratification these days unfortunately and all seem to come along expecting an easy ride.

So no, unfortunately I don't think buffing threat generation would be the solution (That being said I'd agree to taking Shield Bash of the GCD and making it it's own 5-10 CD, I can dream too ;P), it's more of a social problem.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

Something that really bugs me though is that MRD/WAR doesn't get the bonuses in Gil and EXP for the Duty Roulette, they want more Tanks but only Paladins are getting that extra compensation for Tanking. Good job SE

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I have no idea where you're getting that from. I do DF roulettes as a WAR all the time and I get every single bonus I'm supposed to (completion and needed adventurer).

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I have no idea where you're getting that from. I do DF roulettes as a WAR all the time and I get every single bonus I'm supposed to (completion and needed adventurer).

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The difference could be that the rewards scale with your job level, whereas my PLD is 50, gets 4,500 gil for each Roulette, and my WAR right now is 30 and only getting 1000 or even less when I do it with that. This may be the issue but I don't know for sure, I just know that doing most of them besides the Low Level is more worth it on PLD because that's usually 6K gil from each roulette for me

There might be a lack of tanks because the tank classes don't seem all that exciting.

they need to make sam and drk tank classes. then i bet all the fan boys would line up.

To give the community some credit...I had two of three wait for me to figure out Diabolos through two test runs. We added a new party member, and finished it like we'd all done fifty runs of Ampador. The one dps that left just said 'I'm out' before leaving, no insults or otherwise. I honestly felt bad, but as soon as I figured it out, we had an easy run with the new dps that joined us in progress. Not every duty finder party comes with impatient people.

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Originally Posted by Citizen_Thom

I had two of three wait for me to figure out Diabolos through two test runs.

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Offtopic: try doing it without doors. On first big move cover healer, on second use tank lb. No benefit as lb is wasted, but still fun.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

as it stands now, there is ZERO reason for a level 50 to queued for daily low level roulette.

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When you have capped your Soldiery tomes, you might probably want myth tomes for the alts or for upgrading weapons.

Since you can do each roulette only once a day, you may want to do the low level roulette if you have already done the others. In low level roulettes you have the risk of falling in one who lasts a lot with a mostly newby party, or maybe in one who lasts a short time with an exp party.

Edit: Now I think it a bit more, it's worth doing all the roulettes daily (even before you cap soldiery tomes), if you have available time. You can buy gear for the alts or save myth and go buying the items needed (if possible) for when you hopefully eventually have your atmas and need the myth for the upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Zirael_Foxfire

No one wants to play it now, it seems. Why is that then?

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I dont know. I personally like variety myself and i have i80+ every single job and reaching i90 on all but blm/smn/bard.

I prefer and enjoy tanking because it requires the most attention, it requires more strategic planning and isnt just attack and dodge.

I'll further address your statement in the following response to the next person.

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

You can just tell them "guys don't rush, i'm fresh 50" and thats it. PLD with GC weapon can easily hold aggro on relic-toting BLM, given a few seconds to raise threat. Even if you lose aggro after several hard nukes, mob will almost dead already.


How come? Tank job on Titan HM just "standing there", literally, and smack 1-2-3 till post-heart. Then add one defensive CD at start of the phase and after each Landslide.


The only time some skill is really needed, its in high-end dungeons and Ex primals. But then everyone need skill, not just tanks.

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Monk is significantly easier than Paladin for numerous reasons. As a monk the entire titan fight is literally Dodge>Rotation.

The only importance for dps in the titan fight is dodging and not completely sucking at dps and holding your cooldowns for heart. Period.

If a tank didnt know where to tank titan and ate every single bomb, and only did "1, 2, 3" as youre stating they would:
1. Lose threat to an actual good dps player.
2. Take massive damage causing any non good healers to fail (thus a wipe)
3. Cause dps/healers to get hit by mountain buster (I personally have seen this happen when i run as dps/healer instead of tank, the tank turning titan and MB hitting other dps/healer players)
So on so forth.

If youre reading this statement and you like to disagree with it, you are perferctly capable of doing so, but let me tell you right now my good man/lady, if you did this very thing "placing titan in said spot smashing 1, 2, 3" you were carried :)

If you wish to truly know if you can tank, go with a full party, each member wearing full Darklight or less, and a garudas weapon or less,with a 2 healer method and tell me how you fair. Because this is a real test of skill. Not simply overgearing and bringing in the best healers you can find.

As a tank i see quite a few people rushing in to play DPS jobs because they are significantly easier. The only fight where DPS really starts to matter is titans heart.

There are 4 dps in each fight and pre titan's heart (all battles including Castrum, Iffy etc dps didnt matter.) AK is probably the only other place where dps is slightly important but really unless you have two dps in full regular af gear you can get past the wall.

I have been in many fights where a dps dies and either is raised or never raised pre titan's heart and the party does perfectly fine. Which is quite disheartening as this only puts more stress on healers.

I would really like this game to implement features/mechanics where when a dps is doing poorly they are noticably pointed at for doing poorly. Right now the opposite is happening.

When dps fails in Garuda Extreme the tank is blamed more often than not.

When dps fails in Turn 5 healers are blamed more often than not. (same for Ultima hard mode.)

When a dps is doing poor dps the mechanic should signify it somehow imo.

When a dps is not dodging it shouldnt simply require the healer to heal them or raise them it should lock them in place unable to deal dps, then the previous mechanic of pointing them out as doing low dps should occur.

*****in closing*****
(TLDR)

"Why there arent as many tanks as there are dps jobs."

There is next to no responsibility placed on DPS jobs thus more people play them as they are laid back and easy going jobs. No importance, no responsibility is placed on these jobs currently as mentioned before when dps fails "face value" the tank or healer is normally blamed, when in reality it is a dps issue. In general most people are unable to recognize the true issue unless they are very well informed on each fights mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Jitenshazuki

Offtopic: try doing it without doors. On first big move cover healer, on second use tank lb. No benefit as lb is wasted, but still fun.

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That's an interesting idea. It's too bad that PLD and MRD don't have a minor version of the limit break to use...then you could make it through all four big booms.


The doors weren't too hard in the end... of course the party was BLM BLM WHM PLD. So one BLM marked, the other opened the first door and I opened the second.

Well I main as both tanks, don't seem to have a problem with doing it. Admittedly, Paladin does get boring at times (1-2-3 combo gets old), and it would be nice to see some complexity to the job like Warrior. As Warrior, it's nice to know that I have about 3 main combos to use and usually 2 rotations to variate with. Sometimes 3 depending on how I feel like attacking.

As far as holding hate, the only time I've ever had that problem was in Titan HM, pre-relic. I guess the Moogle axe wasn't enough to hold hate over an i90 Bard. Yeah, people bitched at me for MT, but the Paladin running with us wasn't MTing, so I don't see how that ended up being my problem. If people want a certain class to MT, then they should announce as such before fights like that. Saves me a lot of time and the party a lot of trouble.

And yes, I dusted their dicks in the dirt after all the fuss. No sense in hanging around a bunch of bitching people if they're not going to do something to correct the "problem."

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Originally Posted by Ixpheon

I don't actually find the state of tanks to be in any way broken or their gameplay hard to be honest.
.../...
I believe the main issue (as many others in this thread have already mentioned) lies with the antisocial mentality of the majority of DPS players out there. Damage Dealers are all about instant gratification these days unfortunately and all seem to come along expecting an easy ride.

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I agree with the first statement, it's not how the game is made.

About the second, I think there is not a majority of antisocial people, and not necessarily DPS. Most people is nice. There is a small minority of rude people (of any job), usually they are also not good players and easily blame others.

Tanks mistakes are easily seen. A good or bad tank (or one who does not know the place and is hesitating all the time) affects the party more than other roles (usually). When you play other jobs you see that. In a place I know well, I prefer to tank, I don't risk meeting a bad tank. Tanks are blamed also sometimes when the fault is not theirs or not only theirs.

A problem I see is people who quit too easily when things don't go well, be it because the tank is new/bad or not. They don't blame anyone nor say anything rude, just leave at the first or second difficulty.

Yeah im not sure why they got rid of enmity materias from 1.0. Those were nice for tanks...