As it's Valentione's Day, I ask do we even need in-game marriage; period!

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

If we can get married I hope we can get divorced too... Maybe they can code it so the man loses half his stuff and has to pay extra gil every week or so...

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But then they'd have to implement stuff like pregnancy, childbirth, and children if you wanna throw child support into this.

We're still going on about this? Who cares. We don't even know when/if they are going to implement it let alone the restrictions. You people just wanna fuss about anything. ._.

I remember that NexusTK(showing my age here with MMO's...) allowed marriage between Male and Female. It showed up on a bio that the game made for you(kind of like the achievements of today, but it showed important events and milestones you had completed and when) and provided you and your spouse with a ring that could instantly teleport you to your mate with no cooldown.

People complained that you couldn't marry same-sex and eventually they added a blood brother/sister option so you could be with someone of your same gender...but they refused to call it marriage. Honestly, in this day and age...it's such a ridiculous notion. Can you imagine 50 years down the road when people think nothing of it? When the struggle for gay rights is likened to the struggle for the rights of women or people of color? It's almost laughable for those of us living in this current generation to even think about.

MMO companies need to man up and accept it at this point. There is no contraversy outside of the handful of religious people that shouldn't even be your customers if they really believe what they say they believe. Ignore them and support the true people that pay your bills.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

MMO companies need to man up and accept it at this point. There is no contraversy outside of the handful of religious people that shouldn't even be your customers if they really believe what they say they believe. Ignore them and support the true people that pay your bills.

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The reason I push for non-involvement (which is what Blizzard pretty much did in WoW) is because SE is not in a position to take sides at the moment. Suffice to say this was talked about in beta, someone said the wrong thing and a shitstorm ensued. I would rather give no opportunity for said shitstorm to form by simply implementing assets into the game and then leaving players to do what they want with them.

Let's get married, everyone!

The one way for this to be solved is for nobody to get anything and everyone to be the same kinda sad... Except me cause I hate happiness and desire sadness and tears. :D

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Originally Posted by Duelle

SE is not in a position to take sides at the moment.

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I disagree. They absolutely are. Everyone with the opportunity to establish a statement on this matter is in such a position. We all are.

It's ridiculous that there's even debate going on over this, though. It should not even be a question. When implementing a marriage system in-game, the thought of restricting it to only opposite-gender player characters should not even blink into existence.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I disagree. They absolutely are. Everyone with the opportunity to establish a statement on this matter is in such a position. We all are.

It's ridiculous that there's even debate going on over this, though. It should not even be a question. When implementing a marriage system in-game, the thought of restricting it to only opposite-gender player characters should not even blink into existence.

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And why should it not, because you don't want it to? Other people share the opposite opinion of you if you don't recall why all these topics get closed, I'm actually happy to see SE hold out since it shows that they have some other considerations other than money or they would have taken the easy way out already.

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

And why should it not, because you don't want it to? Other people share the opposite opinion of you if you don't recall why all these topics get closed, I'm actually happy to see SE hold out since it shows that they have some other considerations other than money or they would have taken the easy way out already.

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It shouldn't because the opposing opinion is hardly a valid opinion in the first place? An opinion of "my type of people deserve to have this system cater specifically to us, because we're of the opinion that people like you don't deserve to use it" is kinda toilet-level garbage. These topics get closed because people with this opinion that only they deserve in-game fluff services for their own sort of people make a huge stink when other types of people might get to play with what's been exclusively their toys in almost every other instance (and the people they want to take the system from, for no real reason, get a little fed up of reading it. At least I do, though I'm just sick of this stupid attitude in every area of life including the games I play). It's just a bunch of conceited, whiny people trying to diminish fun for other paying players because they're more "important" or somehow more "correct" than those other paying customers... not an actual, reasonable, rational position.

I hope they do add it. Our linkshell had such fun with them in FFXI, and I want a pretty dress. :P

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Originally Posted by Alaray

It shouldn't because the opposing opinion is hardly a valid opinion in the first place? An opinion of "my type of people deserve to have this system cater specifically to us, because we're of the opinion that people like you don't deserve to use it" is kinda toilet-level garbage.

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Both sides of the argument are (put nicely) off the deep end. And this is why I don't want any involvedment on SE's part aside from making the assets for formal and wedding attire, accessories, items and writing lore behind marriages in the city states. This way both sides get what they want, SE isn't forced to say much on the matter and we can all be happy and organize marriage as we want to.

As I've mentioned, Blizzard pretty much put in wedding attire in WoW, made it wearable by both genders and left players to do whatever with it. The nonsense and arguments seen here haven't popped up in WoW's forums at all. At least, not in the 5+ years I've played that game.

My hubby and I both play female Kitty as our main character.

He had a male character already, But I made a male character on my account.
No need for same sex marriage it's a game.
If Japan all of sudden started supporting Same sex marriage and it was on the law books there. Sure go for it. But then it comes down the my next statement.
I don't believe it's SE places to rock the boat on a social issues in an environment when it could cause people to stop playing/paying.

Will same sex people stop playing because it's not there. I really don't think they would because it's currently not the norm in many games today.
Will people against same sex quit playing. Well I believe some would.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

Will same sex people stop playing because it's not there. I really don't think they would because it's currently not the norm in many games today.

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There's at least one person in this particular thread who has stated they will unsub if SE takes a stance against same-sex marriage. I would strongly consider joining them, myself. I cannot support a company financially who does not support equality in love.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

But then they'd have to implement stuff like pregnancy, childbirth, and children if you wanna throw child support into this.

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It's called alimony, and doesn't require you to have any children in order to get it.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

There's at least one person in this particular thread who has stated they will unsub if SE takes a stance against same-sex marriage. I would strongly consider joining them, myself. I cannot support a company financially who does not support equality in love.

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I don't think the problem is "equality in love" as you put it, you're challenging an institution that has been in place for thousands of years for a man and woman that were put there to help society in general. Your union does not benefit society, its a selfish want or yours where you want what heterosexuals have and there is nothing wrong with that, we're all selfish when it comes to our own wants. There is nothing you bring to the table for society in your same sex union, there is nothing in your union to protect that would further or strengthen society.

Straight people though, they provide your army, your workforce, your leaders and the lifeblood of our nations, and its the reason why the union of a man and a woman is sanctioned and holds so much weight in all societies and religions.

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

Stuff

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Since when is it society's business who we marry? You're basically saying a man and a woman who are only in it to reproduce have more of a right than two people who love eachother with everything that they are?

When two people get married it's not to benefit society. It's something that has meaning. It's something that TWO people decide. Not the rest of the damn world. What if your peers told said you can't be with someone just because they don't like it or it won't benefit your future?

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

I don't think the problem is "equality in love" as you put it, you're challenging an institution that has been in place for thousands of years for a man and woman that were put there to help society in general.

Straight people though, they provide your army, your workforce, your leaders and the lifeblood of our nations, and its the reason why the union of a man and a woman is sanctioned and holds so much weight in all societies and religions.

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African Americans lacking rights was also an established institution. That changed.
Also homosexuals are in the army (Don't Ask Don't Tell was removed in 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/us/23military.html), they are the workforce, they are leaders, and that is not the reason heterosexuals hold as much weight (its due to the bible).
I don't think your argument is the right one.
I also apologize if i'm beating a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by Fiorana

I don't think the problem is "equality in love" as you put it, you're challenging an institution that has been in place for thousands of years for a man and woman that were put there to help society in general. Your union does not benefit society, its a selfish want or yours where you want what heterosexuals have and there is nothing wrong with that, we're all selfish when it comes to our own wants. There is nothing you bring to the table for society in your same sex union, there is nothing in your union to protect that would further or strengthen society.

Straight people though, they provide your army, your workforce, your leaders and the lifeblood of our nations, and its the reason why the union of a man and a woman is sanctioned and holds so much weight in all societies and religions.

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Gay/Bi people tho, they provide bodies for your army, your workforce, your leaders and adopt children who need a home and a place to feel loved and welcomed (or choose not to have kids, like the thousands upon thousands of straight couples out there). It truly is a selfish want to have what the straights have, because we all know straights only ever marry because they want kids and all straight married couples raise kids and that's the only point to marriage in this day and age. Totally. Especially when many countries and nations are dealing with overpopulation issues, because... we need more fresh babies to pop into adoption services or they'd be out of a job.

All that holds so much weight in a fantasy video game that lacks all of these "thousands years of straights and no gays" pseudo-facts. So much. You have me. You won. Wow.

Most people that threaten to unsub if SE doesn't do ________ actually don't do it.

Generally, the ones that actually do unsub leave quietly.

This is such a volitile debate and there is no good solution to it but to just leave it out of the game. It is not necessary or needed to play this game. Let's just save everyone the aggrevation.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

This is such a volitile debate and there is no good solution to it but to just leave it out of the game. It is not necessary or needed to play this game. Let's just save everyone the aggrevation.

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It's not necessary, and I agree with that.

However I still think the best possible solution is to just give us wedding clothes/accessories, a wedding chapel with interactable mechanics, and just let the players enact their own weddings.

I agree, unisex clothing though cause i wanna be a blushing bride.
Before anyone talks shit... I'm dead serious.

I'll state my viewpoints flat-out. There does not need to be an in-game marriage system. At all. There's literally no point as, in its most ideal state, it would be purely an aesthetic thing that is absolutely arbitrary and will do little but spark controversy from either side of the same-sex marriage debate. If not-inclusive, the LGBT community will cry foul. If inclusive, the other side will cry foul. Seems like too much of a headache.

And if there were gameplay benefits to being married in-game, then that would be significantly worse, as it would cause the tradition/equality debates to be fifty times fiercer.

Just... I think SE should trash their in-game marriage ideas and leave it to the RP communities to carry out their own marriages as they see fit. If anything, SE should get their writers to think up some fun lore on how marriages in Eorzea are conducted (including details on specific variants of marriages based on nationality, race and tribal affiliations, etc.)

Random thought.... what happens if you use a fantasia potion after marriage...?

I see a lot of whining over nothing that you already have it, I am against it but it doesn't matter what my opinion is though here you go.

I don't see why you don't make a male model with a female name or the other way around, then get the wedding then drink the potion of fantasia.

Problem solved stop complaining about something you already have.

While it may not exactly solve anything... I pointed it out as an additional complication if there are gender locked content outside of vanity equipment.

Imo, it'd just be easier to get the option to marry anybody. No race or gender lock. /shrug

Marriage ingame. Not a feature I plan to use.. unless I find the benefits worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Just... I think SE should trash their in-game marriage ideas and leave it to the RP communities to carry out their own marriages as they see fit. If anything, SE should get their writers to think up some fun lore on how marriages in Eorzea are conducted (including details on specific variants of marriages based on nationality, race and tribal affiliations, etc.)

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Considering tribes and race are less of an issue in Hydaelin than in Vana'diel, the core of marriage IMO should be determined by city state.

Like say Gridanians have the chapel/sanctuary of the twelve, but traditionalists prefer to have the ceremony held in the forest itself (probably somewhere around Bentbranch), presided over by a conjurer and traditional gifts are foodstuffs since the celebration banquet held afterwards is a communal effort of those invited to honor the newly married couple.

In contrast, Ul'dahn weddings are presided over by a thaumaturge (or two, one following Nald and one following Thal) and are generally themed around "paving the road" and wishing good fortune to the happy couple (if I recall, the post I wrote for this on the beta forums had the couple get a small gift in money and get showered in flower petals - flowers being incredibly valuable in Thanalan given its arid conditions).

Lominsan weddings would be presided over by a representative of Maelvaan's Gate. Instead of being entirely faith-oriented like Ul'dahn and Gridanian ceremonies, arcanists act as a representative of the government to oversee the ceremony and make it official (kind of like the mayor of a town presiding over a wedding or a representative of the state/region's governor). Llymlaen is still evoked in a way, as the ceremony would make the point that just like the Navigator guides the denizens of the sea, so must the couple lead each other into a brighter future, together.

This is stuff off the top of my head and trying to recall the post I made about it on the beta forums. Wish I could remember more. =/

I think any option will be bad for SE.

If they decline to implement marriage for same-sex couples, they're insulting the entire LGBT community.
If they do implement it, they're insulting everyone who's against same-sex relationships, and going pretty hard against several countries' cultural values, including their own native Japan.
If they refuse to implement marriage at all, everyone will be upset about it except the people who only strictly play for the dungeon-raiding.

Personally, I think promoting LGBT equality and acceptance would be the lesser of two evils in this case, but considering Square Enix are a Japanese company, I fully expect them to just not do marriage at all or just keep it strictly heterosexual "because of social concerns"

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Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

If they refuse to implement marriage at all, everyone will be upset about it except the people who only strictly play for the dungeon-raiding.

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I really cannot see a significant number of people that will be outraged or quit over them not implementing marriage...

Not implementing it at all is by far the "safest" decision that will anger the least number of people. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Lominsan weddings would be presided over by a representative of Maelvaan's Gate. Instead of being entirely faith-oriented like Ul'dahn and Gridanian ceremonies, arcanists act as a representative of the government to oversee the ceremony and make it official (kind of like the mayor of a town presiding over a wedding or a representative of the state/region's governor). Llymlaen is still evoked in a way, as the ceremony would make the point that just like the Navigator guides the denizens of the sea, so must the couple lead each other into a brighter future, together.

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Why arcanist?
With the marine tradition a Musketeer would fit better (maybe the Admiral herself if one of the two have a high GC rank). Arcanists are only customs officials.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I'll state my viewpoints flat-out. There does not need to be an in-game marriage system. At all. There's literally no point as, in its most ideal state, it would be purely an aesthetic thing that is absolutely arbitrary and will do little but spark controversy from either side of the same-sex marriage debate. If not-inclusive, the LGBT community will cry foul. If inclusive, the other side will cry foul. Seems like too much of a headache.

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The same you can say about the vanity system (but with crafters versus anti-crafters instead of LGBT)

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I cannot support a company financially who does not support equality in love.

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I tend to get the feeling that you want the FFXIV team to take a stance regardless of what the parent company as a whole, the board of directors, the shareholders, other companies, as well as any partner organizations, as well as other players in differing country markets desire.

Sure it's a few lines of code to make it happen, but it's the stance behind it that's what is keeping the team from doing so. I'm sure that if Yoshi-P and team could just slip those few lines of code in and things just so happened to remain quiet, they'd do so. But we all know that there would be multiple articles published about it -- to agree or disagree with the decision. That single decision would get loud. All across the spectrum, it'd be a thing to be heard about. Look at the press that BioWare got from the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games. And then SE has to deal with the fact that they just jumped into a political issue and took any sort of stance. If they do it, it's going to hit the media in some form or fashion. The spot-light is going to be on them and they'll have to make statements.

I'm sure that the company wants to be as non-involved as it can be when it comes to things because they have to consider their financial impact as well. As I said earlier, it's not as simple as popping in a few lines of code. There are multiple things to consider with this entire situation. Personally, I have no issues with same-sex marriage in the slightest, but SE isn't in a predicament to take a political stance on this and it's likely coming from the top of the ladder, down.


It's not that they don't support it, it's that they have to consider any and all financial repercussions that would come with taking a hard stance. You have to consider the business aspect of this. If you're just thinking that they're doing it because they want to be unfair, then I'd wager you're very much mistaken in that aspect. Consider their position as a business, their country of origin, the values in that country, as well as their financial situations as of recently, then you would likely consider "why" they're trying to be as hands off as possible.

As a Japanese software company, the last thing they want to do is to throw a wrench into their finances because they are leading a charge on a topic hotly debated in politics. They just want to make software and distribute it to as many consumers as possible. I'm sure they're not trying to be a trailblazer on anything aside from that.

Which, again, is why I am for scrapping the whole thing. Or, they could do as some others have said here, just implement the pieces and let the players do as they will. On that, I can agree is the safest. Again, I don't believe it's that they don't support anything, it's that they can't get involved for fear of jeopardizing their income as a company.

If they want something more functional. why not make a bonding system with no romantic connotations at all? It can be completely platonic, unless the players decide they want it to mean something more.

2 People can receive rings or something, and it'll give them stat boosts when they're both on at the same time. They can also teleport to each other or get additional boosts when in the same party.

But instead of calling it marriage, it can just be sort of like a partner system. That way, people can still play with their spouses and significant others, no matter the gender. And it won't offend anyone as much due to the fact that friends can be using the system as well.

Not sure if that makes sense... just an idea. Ideally, I would like a marriage system that allows same-sex, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to implement it due to political reasons.

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Originally Posted by KBdeni

If they want something more functional. why not make a bonding system with no romantic connotations at all? It can be completely platonic, unless the players decide they want it to mean something more.

2 People can receive rings or something, and it'll give them stat boosts when they're both on at the same time. They can also teleport to each other or get additional boosts when in the same party.

But instead of calling it marriage, it can just be sort of like a partner system. That way, people can still play with their spouses and significant others, no matter the gender. And it won't offend anyone as much due to the fact that friends can be using the system as well.

Not sure if that makes sense... just an idea. Ideally, I would like a marriage system that allows same-sex, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to implement it due to political reasons.

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Actually this would be a great opportunity to re-introduce the concept of "Path Companions".

Sooo you been playing this long without any marriage system at all and you mean to tell me that if they do put one in and it happens to not allow two fictional same sex kat ppl, elf ppl, miget ppl, or hulking ppl to get married you will stop playing? foolishness! its almost like you people are crying for attention, this is such a stupid issue!

I personally hope they do allow marriage for same sex and I am hetero, but only because I think it would be more interesting then regular hetero only marriage not because of equality BS this is a Game if your life is soo screwed up that you bring real life social issues into a game to escape some jaded reality you shouldn't be playing games, you should be seeking some mental help.

Oh the controversy!

Why add Leviathan? People will just complain about lag and how it's not x-role friendly.

Why add more turns to coil? People will just complain about vertical progression.

Why add more minions? People will just complain about how they serve no purpose.

Big or small no matter the topic someone will always find something to complain about, and yet this really seems to be the only one people are suggesting they simply not add at all. You're focusing so much on the negativity that you're losing sight of what this was intended for and how much fun some people could have with it.

I'm all for equality and I want them to add this. I don't care if they call it something other than marriage or how they work around ill-conceived social stigmas. I don't even mind if they start out m/f and ease into gay marriage. To suggest that they not add it at all however is just pathetic. It's truely sad that anyone would consider giving into the negativity surrounding the topic when the feature would only serve to add greater depth to the world.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

I really cannot see a significant number of people that will be outraged or quit over them not implementing marriage...

Not implementing it at all is by far the "safest" decision that will anger the least number of people. Seriously.

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Not really. Not implementing it at all frustrates everyone who wanted it in the first place, gay or otherwise, alienates both sides all the more for the perceived failure for the company to take a side, and comes off as an executive refusal to give players a service they ask for simply because the company is too afraid to offend anyone.

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

blah blah blah etc etc

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While you do have a point, I also feel like Square have already opened this can of worms with the Valentione's Day event. If they back out on it now, it's only going to make people angry.

Besides which, this is a topic that more people, corporation or otherwise, should be taking a stand on.

This is the epitome of a "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situation. Add marriage and everyone's who's against it for whatever reason will come out; don't add it, and everyone who wants it will continue to push for it.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Why arcanist?
With the marine tradition a Musketeer would fit better (maybe the Admiral herself if one of the two have a high GC rank). Arcanists are only customs officials.

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The assessors of Maelvaan's Gate seem to have a good amount of authority behind them. At least the ACN quesline has given me that impression.

Musketeers would most likely be rank and file military, and I highly doubt their quesline would involve a rise through the ranks to where they wield any real sort of authority. The admiral wouldn't be an option since I push for non-involvement.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

If not-inclusive, the LGBT community will cry foul. If inclusive, the other side will cry foul. Seems like too much of a headache.

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I really, really, really think ya'll are inflating the latter side well beyond what would happen.

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Originally Posted by Tahldon

But we all know that there would be multiple articles published about it -- to agree or disagree with the decision.

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Where are the multiple articles published about Trion's marriage system? Oh, that's right, they're all focusing on the record breaking online marriage-a-thon, with maybe a passing mention that it has no gender restrictions. >_> I highly doubt the media reaction to FFXIV would be any different, and the only reason it might be is because SE has decided to make it an issue. If they would just release it without fanfare save for "Yay, now player characters can get married!" I can almost guarantee you it would go over like water over glass. Hell, maybe even distract everyone by trying to one-up Rift's world record.