I want 2.2 to be a "reset" for players in full i90 gear. Make Turn 6 a distant goal.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Was not 2.1 made for that? What is wrong for me to ask for what I want now in 2.2 which was promised to be a "progress" not ilvl same old no progress that I have 0 interest in.

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Have you thought about just asking the executive producer of square-enix if he can give you and you alone a full set of GM armor? That way you can bypass all this pesky ilvl stuff and go straight to never running anything ever again because you don't need the gear. Maybe if you offer to pay them statistically more than your subscription is worth, they will do it for you rather than wasting years of your life.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

I really dislike the idea of pulling everyone back to the start line. I don't like these huge gear leaps either.

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I don't see what's wrong with the OP's general idea of creating new content with new equipment you can work towards.
Huge jumps in ilvl are a bad thing in my opinion. It limits the ammount of content you can place in between.

I'd like to know why the SE left out a number of ilvl ranges like 60-70, 70-80 and 80-90.
Up to ilvl50 you have a lot of gear choices every 1-3 levels.
But before CT it was ilvl70 -> ilvl90 and nothing in between.
Now it's ilvl70-80 -> ilvl90. But because many players already had ilvl90 gear, the new ilvl80 stuff is pretty much useless to them.

That's something I don't want to see again.
Either create some really, really hard and time consuming content which will reward you with stuff that will be the best for a very long time, or work with smaller ilvl jumps.

Something else I'd like to see would be gear which improves the abilities or skills of a class.
Like increased Greased Lightning duration, bigger Flash AoE or lower MP cost of Stoneskin.
How about making it possible to get materia slots on endgame gear?
And what about crafting to fill the ilvl gaps?

What I don't want to see is new content with easy to get gear that's better than the current ilvl90 stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

I'd like to know why the SE left out a number of ilvl ranges like 60-70, 70-80 and 80-90.

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Because CT got delayed due to being balanced to be done through the DF.

The original end-game plan:

Fresh 50 > WP & AK || Crafted Armor > Primals & Darklight > CT & Myth > Coil (supplemented with Myth)

Obviously there was a huge gap there with CT missing and people jumped into Coil with DL or overmelded gear while farming Myth. In hindsight, if they had the same loot restrictions at launch for CT as they did now I'm sure progression would be at the same spot now, the only difference that people would have had some i80 gear sprinkled in. CT's delay has only made it to where people would be finishing up a third set of CT gear around now instead of their first.

All of you people talking about turn six have downed turn five right? Right? I'm ilvl 88 and were having trouble with conflags still.

Anyways, I prefer the ffxi model. A few epic items that are difficult to obtain, yet are reachable if you put the time in. Kirins Osodes, strider boots, E bows, Scorpion Harnesses, Theif's Knife (before everyone had one). You need something to keep your hardcore players pacified. Everyone running around in their clone myth/allagan gear is bland and boring.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Remember what is was like to hit Lv50 for the first time? Darklight gear was amazing and just getting into Coil was a distant dream? I want the ceiling raised so we have that same lv of progression in 2.2

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True, i know what you mean, now when ever i see someone in darklight i kind of think there under geared for some reason :S not being an ass. i haven't even really scratched the surface of coil yet so my character has a mix of CT gear, 1 Coil gear and Myth gear. Some full i90 coil geared guy probably would think low im under geared lol

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

After 8 years we're gonna need one of those too.
If you don't raise the power considerably people won't feel compelled to upgrade, will just beat the last dungeon using their old gear and quit.

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Uhh... No we will not if they aren't retarded with gear resets and wild inflation? EQ and XI did just fine without gear resets. When your 10 lvls above the old cap due to an expansion it makes the older raid content a lot easier and allows you to go in with a smaller force to grab the gear to do the newer content.

If you somehow think making old content so worthless no one who didn't play when it was current has ever even seen it then I don't know what to tell you. Expansions EXPAND on the content. They aren't supposed to make it so the only reason the old content even still exists is because that's where new characters load into the game.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

You want Coil to stay ilvl90? great. WHAT THE IS THE POINT? We are not getting special gear stats, we are not getting progress, what should we get then? same old stuff with different colours?

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So at what point did someone say for it to stay ilvl 90? Pretty sure opposing a 50% increase is not saying you wans a 0% increase. They have made it pretty obvious that each tier will be 10ilvls higher than the last. And since the raid content is tiered CT > BC > CT > BC

CT1 = 80
BC1 = 90
CT2 = 100
BC2 = 110

Not that hard to figure out

XIV is a typical MMO now, turn 6 will be easier than 5 by a fair bit which then ramps up to another road block fight like Twintania, gear will only slowly grow in power

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

The previous progress was good, Ilvl70 into ilvl90. When CT came out ilvl80 did not turn Coil gear to worthless. This is the same thing here, 2.2 gear have to be better than 2.3 by a good amount.

Plus know your math, if every 6 month we get an ilvl jump like we had since the game launched it will be ilvl120-140 max. the game would be 2 years old if not more before we reach ilvl200.

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Since you were apparently misinformed. ilvl 80 was supposed to come out at launch and ilvl 90 at 2.1. They decided CT was too hard and threw out coil 1st.

And by your logic Coil 6-10 would be ilvl 110. Not the ilvl 120 your asking for. CT would come in 2.3 with ilvl 100. Unless your suggesting they drop group content gear at ilvl 100 and go ahead and make all the raid content from 2.0 and 2.1 pointless. Which from reading what you have said so far you probably are.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Agreed. Not only do they need to reserve ilvs for the next CT
but they'll need space to fit in the new crafted gear as well as gear drops from the new dungeons.

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So your plan is to release group content and crafted gear that makes everything currently in the game pointless and obsolete? WOW

Doubt the iLvL will raise too much more... otherwise it will start to cause ridiculous things to happen when the level cap is eventually raised.

one way to mitigate the problem of older content becomming obsolete is to make it part of a quest you NEED to do to access the new content.

That way 'new' players will be forced to do the older content, atleast once anyway.

The gear will be obsolete, but the dungeon won't be. And the gear will still be worthwhile to those new to the game.

Dont want something more than ilvl100 gear big maximum for 2.2

Honestly more lvl 90 allagan drops + 50 myths in each turn are in their own a good motivation. Not everyone is lucky in their BiS ...

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Originally Posted by Marzapan

one way to mitigate the problem of older content becomming obsolete is to make it part of a quest you NEED to do to access the new content.

That way 'new' players will be forced to do the older content, atleast once anyway.

The gear will be obsolete, but the dungeon won't be. And the gear will still be worthwhile to those new to the game.

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Exactly. Don't make group gear surpass raid gear every single raid tier. Make it surpass every 4-5. IE group gear starts being as CT1 raid gear around Coil 11-15. IE it becomes something like

group/CT1 > BC1-5 > CT2 > BC6-10 > CT3 > BC11-15

which unless they fix the problems causes by flipping the release would result in group gear matching the 1st set of raid gear in patch 2.4

Turn 6 will still requite an initial clear of turns 1 thru 5 to access. So for many it still will be a distant goal. Looking forward to new content myself tho.

hows ilv going to reflect physical level? i am FFXI vet from when the level cap was 75 and never experienced ilv (pretty sure i saw someone talking about it when referring to ffxi so assume they added it?)

so say atm i am iLv88 (not 90 cos i REFUSE to wear the SCH hat lol) then the job level cap rises to 55 or 60.. i level to 60 but am still wearing ilv90 gear.. will my level 60 meaning anything?

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

hows ilv going to reflect physical level? i am FFXI vet from when the level cap was 75 and never experienced ilv (pretty sure i saw someone talking about it when referring to ffxi so assume they added it?)

so say atm i am iLv88 (not 90 cos i REFUSE to wear the SCH hat lol) then the job level cap rises to 55 or 60.. i level to 60 but am still wearing ilv90 gear.. will my level 60 meaning anything?

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Item level is some system WoW came up with to help the short bus people who couldn't simply understand that group gear at lvl cap > T1 raid at lvl cap > T2 at lvl cap etc etc.


Most MMO vets would know this system as "oh you have the lvl 60 drop from <insert uber top end raid boss drop here> thats WAY better than my <insert rare boss mob drop that you killed with 3 friends>"

I'm pretty sure item levels were created so people would stop whoring on the Gearscore addon. Nothing else...

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Remember what is was like to hit Lv50 for the first time? Darklight gear was amazing and just getting into Coil was a distant dream? I want the ceiling raised so we have that same lv of progression in 2.2

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Translation: I want nobody else but me and my group to be able to beat the new content when it comes out, so I can say I was the first one to beat it and rub it in your faces.

Gear in most cases is kinda inconsequential. Player skill, is king.
I did fine on TitanX, with ilv73. while i see ppl perform like crap, at ilv85+ (i even out-dps some of them)
Mostly DL was apparently fine for Twintania, and if you got CT set, it will be more than fine for turn 6-10...unless you suck ofc, then ilv100 wont be enough.
Speaking of which, turn 6 will be a distant dream for most players, since even Twintania is a distant dream still, for most ppl.
Myself i never been to Twin, because you need to have been there before, before going there the first time. So, since i haven't been there before, no one gonna take me there; which makes it a distant dream...
and who's gonna take me along to T6, if i haven't even been to T5 hmm?
90% of ppl who are on Twin, cant even kill her, with ilv90 anyways, so T6 is gonna be a distant dream for 99% of players, still.
it would need to be ilv110+, for it to be a challenge for elite ilv90 players anyways, where would they gear up for that? CT? (there's actually no CT content yet, since labyrinth is outside CT)
Most likely T6-10 will drop ilv100, and if you know mechanics, you can do it fine in ilv80 gear.

People will quit eventually , and if that person happens to be your main tank who has iLVL 120 gear and it took him 9 mths to get that armor and it would take say 3mths to get another tank up to that level you can kiss your static good bye or join the real que to find a new tank for your static.

But since I hate statics and the idea of lock outs I don't have to worry about that. I would quit if they forced statics on us, but they haven't and Im in i90 armor from tomes ... all is good right :)

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

So your plan is to release group content and crafted gear that makes everything currently in the game pointless and obsolete? WOW

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Why would it be obsolete? You would need the current gear to obtain the new gear.

yes!! raise the level cap. thats the only way to fix this game right now. and please make it at least somewhat difficult to cap ur level. its such a stroll in the park to cap a class right now its not even funny. 3 days to 50 for someone who plays a few hours a day? theres just something wrong here

I think t 6-10 will be aviable only for ppl's that done t5 , tho i not done myself yet , but for real it must be like that , cuz what point in progress if not completed previous . Also think t1 -5 most likely will hit good chunk of nerf , so ppl's that was able at least reach t5 , will be able to clear it within week or 2 . Drops more likely will remain same as t1-5 or they add ilv 95~100 .

Or it can be the beginning of rolling out Epic (Purple) gear in the game like the Relic Weapons, even ilvl95 Purple looks nicer than the ilvl90 Blue.

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Originally Posted by Magis

One poster gave EVE as an example, another is FFXI (yah, yah) until Abyssea came out. Gear didn't get thrown out after the next flavour of the month came in. Horizontal progression > Vertical progression. Even AF1 gear was useful for a while... not thrown away right when you hit 50.

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I remember macroing in certain gear just for the instant bonus, like Samurai Helm when you used Meditate.

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

Ahahahaha... You aren't serious, are you? The highest I can see them going is i110, at the most. We're not even at the first expansion for crying out loud!

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thats what im saying too much growth too fast. vanilla should have a limit not go to insane number for not reason at all.

on the short term i guess the most viable solution is an ilevel synchronization, like we have while the leveling....some content will become faceroll with the new gear...we must keep the challenge.
other point that worry me a lot...when the game will get a level cap raise (and it's already planned)... how they will do it? i means if a new player arrive after do he will need to farm DL or CT for get gear for be able to advance in the story?
i think they have make a huge mystake to increase soo much the ilevel of the stuff... actually we are potentially level 80+ when full stuff... it's stupid. how keep the balance and the challenge for the new content viable without add a huge grind fest!

if they are brave enough, i will have advice to do an item squish right now for bring balance in the futur content. something like (DL ilevel 65, CT ilevel 70, BC ilevel 75) and even like this it's really high... we will get a level cap raise and that worry me a lot this story of ilevel.

It seems pretty obvious based on current item levels that BC2 will be 110 and and CT2 will be 100. Given they are doing the 10 item level jump between tiers of gear.

Darklight 70
CT 80
BC1 90
CT2 100
BC2 110

When an expansion comes out lets say the last lv50 raid drops item level 200 gear (saying 200 because thats the highest in the party finder). Gear resets do happen at expansions though. When the level cap raise is out we will start seeing new quested gear that is level 51+ equip able start with an item lvl 201+. Item level is just a number it doesn't have to be any where near the actual level of the job.

Zumi it's a perfect exemple of why WoW did decide to do an item Squish... FF14 is there for 10 years... if the level get too fast too high... you will have character with 99.999hp really fast. they need to tune down the progression by a lot!

i do hope that CT2 will become an alternative to BC for the ilevel 90 stuff and that BC2 will not cross the ilevel 100. (it's already the double of our level for god sake)
don't let FF14 become a stuff oriented game... Skill>stuff! that must stay true.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Item level is some system WoW came up with to help the short bus people who couldn't simply understand that group gear at lvl cap > T1 raid at lvl cap > T2 at lvl cap etc etc.


Most MMO vets would know this system as "oh you have the lvl 60 drop from <insert uber top end raid boss drop here> thats WAY better than my <insert rare boss mob drop that you killed with 3 friends>"

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I'd like to think you're just messing around, but it's more likely that you are actually this stupid. I'm still defaulting to the first option though, just because I don't want to believe the second.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

Zumi it's a perfect exemple of why WoW did decide to do an item Squish... FF14 is there for 10 years... if the level get too fast too high... you will have character with 99.999hp really fast. they need to tune down the progression by a lot!

i do hope that CT2 will become an alternative to BC for the ilevel 90 stuff and that BC2 will not cross the ilevel 100. (it's already the double of our level for god sake)
don't let FF14 become a stuff oriented game... Skill>stuff! that must stay true.

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WoW hasn't done an item squish yet but they are in the next expansion. I stopped playing that game awhile ago but the whole reason they are doing it is they have dps doing about 450,000 dps, tanks that have over a million HP. They are squish all the stats down back to like the bc/wrath era because it dealing with numbers in the millions it taxes their servers to do those large calculations of 100 of thousands of damage done and damage taken.

FFXIV is nowhere close to this point. In FFXIV a good dps do maybe around 200+ dps and tanks have 7-9k hp. It would take a long time and many expansions before the numbers got so high that we had tanks with 1 million hp and dps doing 450k dps

pls make t6-10 make titan ex fight looks like a faceroll ifrit story!

Regarless of how things end up they need to make it so that you still have to go through all the "normal" progressions. They cannot make it so that players can skip content.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

yes!! raise the level cap. thats the only way to fix this game right now. and please make it at least somewhat difficult to cap ur level.

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If they are more creative with it I"d go for it. Like they should consider having the job souls unlock a spiritbond like aspect.

Since technically the souls stones are only lv 30. Rather than make the first level cap go from 50-60, they could instead increase the "job stone" cap from 30 to 50.

Have every 5 levels unlock another new skill, it would add another "job" to level via a smn and sch would now be on separate xp routes.

They could also add further attribute customization to the job stones, something like every 2 levels 1 attribute point and every 5 levels you can augment a job ability. It would be a small step to adding bit more customization to playstyles but at the same time at least it wouldn't be unimaginative and just increase cap from 50-55.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

Regarless of how things end up they need to make it so that you still have to go through all the "normal" progressions. They cannot make it so that players can skip content.

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The skip to current content will be most likely having no limit on mythlogy and a new tomb will be added that does have a limit.

I like Silentwindr's idea of a Item Level Sync

The system is already in the game for the low level dungeons. All the Lv1-49 content has an item level cap and if you exceed it, your stats brought down to match. They just needs to apply to 50+ content.

i.e. Ifrit HM can have ilv90 cap, so players in all iLv110 gear will be sync'd to il90 stats.

Hey all,

While we will be releasing new items in Patch 2.2, we aren't ready to reveal the details on their item level just yet. As you may be aware, we are also planning on releasing more information about the Binding Coil of Bahamut during the upcoming Letter from the Producer LIVE, so be sure to submit your burning questions to our submission threads!

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Hey all,

While we will be releasing new items in Patch 2.2, we aren't ready to reveal the details on their item level just yet. As you may be aware, we are also planning on releasing more information about the Binding Coil of Bahamut during the upcoming Letter from the Producer LIVE, so be sure to submit your burning questions to our submission threads!

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Good! this is a generic answer to a terrible suggestion. Unless you plan on suddenly making Coil drops unlimited and as easy to get as DL, no way do I want what OP wants. I would hate to log in to "oh good, 6 more months of running that mouse wheel!" I'm sure I am in the minority, but what I like about the current system is it has a nice mid-pace. For those people who grind and play 9 hours a day 7 days a week, I am sorry you are bored. I have chosen to level my jobs all about the same pace, and take up fishing. As a result I am all ilvl80ish and still have stuff to do! In the end, only YOU can decide how to make your MMO experience last longer. If your only fun in an MMO is the direct grind to an iLVL and you need a mousewheel to keep you interested, you should consider not playing MMOs because in general... people will always slow you down.

Ahh yes, The live letters that answer questions like..

Q: About how long will it take to complete a single beast tribe quest?

and

Q: How can we obtain PvP gear?

can't wait til more trivial questions get answered.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

A whole bunch of stupid crap, and the inability to spell "tomestone".

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No. Too much ramp, and no balance. I'll fix it for you.

New dungeons support current tome system, drop more aesthetic 60 greens.
Leviathan EX drop i90 neck/ring.
Reserve i95 for CT2 gear.
Make anything less than i90/near-i90 suicide in Coil2.
i105 AF2/Allagan2 gear, i105 Relic+2 (with relentlessly difficult quest), i110 Allagan2 weapon.

This suggestion would result in extreme power creep. No thank you. Coil Turns 6 through 10 should be dropping i95 and/or i100 gear, with the next addition to CT dropping i85 and/or i90 gear.

I'd appreciate, however, Pharos Sirius dropping i70 gear with different stats and appearance than darklight, and the new 2.2 dungeons dropping more i70 gear of the same vein.