Pharos Sirius - Too difficult for randoms

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Originally Posted by Reishi

.____. well now THAT is worth a try today!!
Just go in naked, then equip your stuff. Will try that

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The roulette itself has a minimum 48. You could try registering, and THEN unequipping things, and see if that works. Kinda doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

The roulette itself has a minimum 48. You could try registering, and THEN unequipping things, and see if that works. Kinda doubt it.

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I hadn't noticed if the roulette says it has a min ilvl, I thought it would be just based on the level 50 dungeons individual ilvls that determines the selection you get. I'll certainly try this tonight (and double check the info on the roulette option).

Nobody as counter-argued that dungeons drops lower gear than it takes to complete it. This is an obvious glaring flaw. Yes, over-geared players can complete it as most of the population is past i70. Moving i60 gear to Pharos is a huge increase in difficulty to new players than the players who got in earlier and were able to get i60 from AK. I don't like getting easy mode while newer players get hard mode. I don't want the watered down version.

All you naysayers; i doubt you ever tried this dungeon with level appropriate gear. You do realize you're saying hte content is not too hard while you never completed it as intended in the first place when you roll through in i80 gear.

Put some i55 geared group, make a video, and prove me wrong.

huh, I have never been put into this with roulette yet. I did it once to finish the quest and that was it. I agree that the new dungeons ilevel requirements are too low though.

I think perhaps there's a significant population still farming WP runs instead, that's why we rarely see Pharos in the Roulette.

Not to mention those who never unlocked Pharos, when those people join the Roulette, they cause the finder to funnel people towards dungeons other than Pharos.

Well bang goes my theory of dropping your ilvl, as what Alistaire said is totally correct. The high-level roulette does indeed have a minimum ilvl of 48, which isn't displayed in the details UNLESS you actually try selecting it with less than ilvl 48 gear :(

I don't actually dislike this dungeon, in fact I think it's challenging fun BUT as a healer the fun goes out the window when you're trying to keep totally under geared players alive :(

Never have I regretted any act more than that of unlocking pharos sirius. I have met more horrible players there than anywhere else - ever. While it is not bad at all with a competent group, if even one of your pugs has an IQ lower than that of a mouldy potato ( A surprisingly common occurance ), the dungeon will not be completable, and thus is a complete waste of time.

I give it the benefit of the doubt about once a week.
This week it was a summoner who's Titan(!) was doing more damage than he was, and a tank who couldn't control aggro.
Last week it was an entire group that thought standing in red aoe indicators was a good idea.
and so on.

After my 'freebie' run, any time I get PS, I just exit and take a 30min break.
It's just not worth my time.

I am also going to have to admit to being one of the people who really regrets unlocking Pharos Sirius.

Every time I do a high level roulette I really do feel like I am gambling..."Come on...no Pharos, no Pharos...of course, Pharos."

It just isn't fun to me in roulette. I have enjoyed every other dungeon in the high level roulette and haven't had too much of a problem with completion. I feel like Pharos Sirius, however, is in a league of its own. :\

I personally like some difficult content you do need to think to do even in DF. Do not do the roulette then if you can not handle the pepper in the hotsauce. It is the hard that makes it good ;)

Seriously, I would love more of content like this that forces me to nuture my leadership side. I have a 80% winrate on this in DF. Done it 5 times, only failed once and that was my first time doing it due to me not knowing every mechanic. Once I learned that it has been easy to explain and teach the pugs.

Assuming people bother to listen to you.

I queue up for PS on duty finder by preference (healer). Just because it's about the only dungeon in game that is not a complete breeze through. I subscribed to this game to have fun. And fun is not running CT mindlessly on your backbone.
People should embrace the challenges a game provides them. And the challenge only increases when people are relatively undergeared or inexperienced.

I'm hoping for similar dungeons like this in the future.

I do agree that rewards could be increased for this dungeon. And if not an increased iLvL, either by cosmetic items or minions. It's definately more difficult then crystal tower and rewards should be appropriate

So far, I ended three times in Pharos through the DF. Two times I was ALONE in the dungeon and the third time another player was still there but AFK lol. When you ask around why people do not enter this dungeon, the answer is most of the time "i am afraid that people will complain and start bitching as soon as I make my first mistake".

This is actually a real problem as far as I see it. The toxic part of the FF14ARR community is one of the major reasons why people are afraid to dive into new content, especially when they hear that the dungeon is more difficult than the ones they know.

Imo they should add a Mentor role when you apply for a dungeon. Independent of what job you wanna play, there should be an option to volunteer as a Mentor. People can ask them for tactics and maybe even hints to play their class better. When you search for a party there should be checkbox (like the one for taking part in ongoing runs) that ensure you only enter runs where at least one of the players is acting as a Mentor.

This way especially newer players would be less afraid to enter a dungeon for the first time. And the Mentor should, in addition to a good feeling to have helped others to find their way through a dungeon, receive a 100% commendation extra, no matter if the other players have chosen him or not as an extra reward.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

When you ask around why people do not enter this dungeon, the answer is most of the time "i am afraid that people will complain and start bitching as soon as I make my first mistake".

This is actually a real problem as far as I see it. The toxic part of the FF14ARR community is one of the major reasons why people are afraid to dive into new content, especially when they hear that the dungeon is more difficult than the ones they know.

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This. I like challenges, but not with strangers who wait nothing but barking at you when things go wrong. I guess that's why most people stay away from puging that place. I'm happy to run it with friends, but with a pug no thanks.

Getting rid of the DF is, in my oppinion, a good first step to reduce bad-ass-ness in instances.
Because:
- People have to communicate again.
- People have to deal with server-only player pool
- People will be made responsible for bad-ass-ness (good or bad?)

Concerning the dungeon:
It is a well done dungeon, good mechanics, good bosses (ok No3 not) and a good story behind.
Unfortunatly SE will nerf it, 'cause the numbers show less interest from the community. The numbers are absolutely false interpreted. The intended gear-entry-level was set false by SE, if you count in the avarage potential of the community. And the carrot at the end of the stick is shrunken to oblivion.

PS:
Did anyone manage to finish the dungeon with iLvl 48-55 gear?
I for one hadn't had the time to try, did someone had?

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Originally Posted by Feilina

PS:
Did anyone manage to finish the dungeon with iLvl 48-55 gear?
I for one hadn't had the time to try, did someone had?

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I finished it as a iLvl 54 war, maybe me month ago, it was my first run too, but I had insanely good dps and an amazing healer. Did it 5 times after that and managed only one win ( although my iLvl is much higher now). All in all I feel that this dungeon will become easier with time once more people know it better
However I definitely think rewards should be better

For those who've missed it:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Q15: Please tell us the difficulty and average item level needed to participate in Amdapor Township dungeon.

A15: It will be more difficult than the dungeons added in patch 2.1. We are planning to add a new type of Allagan tomestone, so it will be a difficulty on par for that. On the other hand, there has been feedback that Pharos Sirius is too difficult, so we will be making adjustments.

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I have only completed this dungeon once and since then every time I get it, people either vote abandon or start, wipe then vote abandon. No one wants to do this dungeon.

I was looking for JUST this thread! I got Pharos for the first time via duty roulette the other day and half of the people that showed up quit or dc'd. We wasted a good 20-25 minutes just waiting for new people to join that we ended up running out of time! The worst part was that the dungeon was fairly easy (even for me as a first timer). We died once on the first boss, once on the second, not at all on the third, then got stuck at Siren for a bit before our last try was utterly wrecked by lag.

Now Siren seems to be the hardest part of the dungeon but our final group was good enough that the extra 20-25 minutes would have probably seen us clear it. At least give it a good try before you decide to ditch. And one wipe is not a "good try" sorry.

I enjoy Pharos Sirus. I know the fights, can explain them to first timers and have successfully lead a group of 3 first timers to victory in it.

PS is not a dungeon DPS can brute force like the rest. 3 of the 4 bosses require throttling dps since the Captain, Zu and Siren's adds spawn based on their hp. This is why some groups find the fights "to hard."

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I enjoy Pharos Sirus. I know the fights, can explain them to first timers and have successfully lead a group of 3 first timers to victory in it.

PS is not a dungeon DPS can brute force like the rest. 3 of the 4 bosses require throttling dps since the Captain, Zu and Siren's adds spawn based on their hp. This is why some groups find the fights "to hard."

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Pharos Sirius is one of my favourite dungeons for this fact. I'm so sick of dps races that it's a very refreshing change. I was always more into planning ahead than "dodge this and burn this asap". I love healing the Siren fight, it's challenging, but not nerve wrecking (I'm looking at you, Twintania).

Only once have I been in a party via DF that could not complete this dungeon. It was due to a severely under-geared WHM who could not stay out of the AOEs on the first boss. It is a fun dungeon and quite easy once you have the hang of it. Siren can be a pain but the majority of people can pick up the mechanics after a try or two.

The first time I queued for Pharos (as the healer, think I was like i76 or something at the time), it was with my FC, the tank had done it before, but we barely beat it.

Since then, I've queued for DF and been in a group where the tank and one dps hadn't done it before - with me in not significantly better gear, but having run it a few times by now - and we hardly had any problems.

IMO, the gear requirement for Pharos is too low, mainly because of the heal check for Siren. But this is really the only dungeon that you need a good healer in order to beat. Most other dungeons I could literally set myself to follow and have my fairy heal through.

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Originally Posted by Lstkaws

It was due to a severely under-geared WHM

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Define severely undergeared. Considering the req of the dungeon it was probably rather not severely overgeared? I think that's the point of the thread. Sure if you are overgeared it's easy, but it's supposed to be doable for a fresh 50 so...can't call it easy if to complete it you need to overgear it.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Define severely undergeared. Considering the req of the dungeon it was probably rather not severely overgeared? I think that's the point of the thread. Sure if you are overgeared it's easy, but it's supposed to be doable for a fresh 50 so...can't call it easy if to complete it you need to overgear it.

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Fair point, and considering the DEVs have acknowledged this encounter was a bit tougher given the rewards it offers it certainly lends credibility to the topic of this thread. I have completed it with a WHM that was I55ish and was his first time, butthe rest us were ilvl 75+. The run I was speaking of whm was probably at or slightly above minimum req. The rest of us were overgeared. I guess looking back at it it probably had more to do with the whm's inability to dodge. They probably should have had a higher Ilvl req.

Siren fight is way more about Lunatic Voice getting stunned than it is about your healer's gear, really. If that move isn't going off, it's pretty much a snoozefest for me on healer. If it is, it's a crapfest. There's no piece of gear that's going to change that, unless maybe they bring XI's Yagrush into this game.

The Cadenza/Lunge thing sucks too and makes it difficult to consistently dodge both moves because there's no real way to tell which one Siren will use until it's (usually) already too late to dodge one of them. Most of the time you're basically resigning yourself to being able to be hit by one or the other, and hoping that Siren doesn't pick the one you're not positioned properly for.

Tiny bit off topic, but I feel XIV has lost the plot a bit with itemization and dungeons. They're fun but the risk/reward is off and there's a lot of marginalization in there. I don't know how they're adding more as what else is there that can drop without redundancy?

-Should bump dungeon gear to ilvl 70, no reason for Darklight to be better, especially with the Philo buff. It just invalidates dungeon gear for no reason when the stuff is kinda hard to make drop for you as is.

-Reduce to one set, have body pieces drop from AK & WP, accessories from CP and HM hard modes.

-Make PS/Siren it's own thing. Personally, I'd use it to buff the crafting system and add variety to itemization. Make Siren drop upgraded Soul Crystals and others drop items that DoH can use to upgrade a piece of crafted gear to ilvl 80. Weekly lockout, leave difficulty as is.

-FFXIV *needs* customization, if you could enchant gear, use materia more, get rare crafting designs, think of all the drops you could pepper in.

I don't mind this dungeon being tougher than WP and AK, what I do not like is getting a completely new dungeon without a single unique drop. At least from what I have seen there is nothing special dropping from Pharos Sirius which makes it a tome farm like the rest. Well, if speed runs are what everyone wants in their "tome farm" runs, no one will want a tougher battle. It's sad because like the King moogle battle, a tremendous amount of time and effort went into creating these dungeons, yet no one is doing them.

I've been sent in PS exactly twice by the Roulette.

The first time was a day after it was released. 3 newbs (including me) and a tank that had tried it once the previous night and made it to the final boss (no clear). We one-shotted the whole place.

The second time was a week or two back. The tank insta left, letting me re-queue with no penalty.

And to clarify, yes I did do PS more often than that with members of my FC, and it does seem way over tuned for the ilevel it requires. Especially the first and last fights where things can go wrong fast.

Within 1 hour of 2.2 being released, me (WHM) and SMN friend qued up for duty finder. The WAR and DRG we got gave up on first boss.
Me and SMN cleared entire run without them, by being creative with Cures, Cleric Stance and Titan Egi.
This dungeon is not too hard by any means if a WHM and SMN can duo it.


EDIT: and my WHM is vanya set....

I LIKE the dungeon itself, and don't mind the mechanics. They are more complicated than AK and WS, but no more so than Haukke Hard or Copperbell, I think. I do think they are a bit too high for the iLVL requirements.

It's not bad if you've got one of four people who haven't done it before, but if you have 2-3 people who are new to it, 90 minutes isn't a lot of time to teach it.

I think it comes down to risk/reward. The risk (not getting any tomes) vs reward (getting 70) seems a lot higher in this instance than in other ones. If you log in for the evening and have 2 hours to play and get PS... you've got about a 50% chance or better of having nothing to show for your time. Compare that to WP where you could speed run it 3x in that time and get 90 myth.

I can't fault people for not wanting to get better at PS due to this obvious dilemma.

I enjoy Pharos, I guess I just like the challenge. I've ran it at least 20 times, only failed once due to time. I've always Tanked, only ran DPS once with an FC pt.

I usually get stuck with those that do run the roulette too when I Tank. I'm that one player that convinces everyone not to leave and that the dungeon can be fun and practice just makes you better for the next time, hahahaha.

I even have a note pad saved to my desktop so I can just copy and paste the battle strategy for the run for any new comers.

I think the mechanics are good for players to learn strategies. I've seen over geared players play like crap all the time in CT. Its the player, not the gear that makes them good.

Players need to just let go and not get overly upset at a wipe or fail. It is just a game.

It does feel good when I do get those players that say they've never finished this dungeon and you take them all the way through.

Got Pharos in DR on WHM with a SMN, DRG and PLD. PLD and DRG quit on arrival. The DRG was replaced right away with another SMN, not so the tank. Went ahead anyway...

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...72922bf1da.jpg
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...e4193b9b90.jpg
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...d757dd390e.jpg

...and beat the first boss. New tank arrived during the fight (but was locked out), one shot everything else afterwards.

Oh yes...AF2, Relic+1....cool story. Nobody doubted it's ard if you're way overgeared.

Nope. Get better or go home. the ONLY part you could POSSIBLY have a case for is siren.

Pharos is the first new dungeon we've gotten that's actually NEW. By this I mean not only that it's a new location, but the enemies are new, the types of traps in the enviornment are new, everything. Other than siren, I am way happier to run this than WP or AK for the bajillionth time.

Edit: If I can heal it in half AF and half DL and a GC weapon....no excuses.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Oh yes...AF2, Relic+1....cool story. Nobody doubted it's ard if you're way overgeared.

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Really? I see people that are "way overgeared" quitting as soon as they see roulette picked Pharos Sirius, and I see people that are "way overgeared" incapable of stunning/silencing Lunatic Voice, or complaining about the "high difficulty" in the dungeon (I honestly think Valkurm Dunes parties in FFXI are harder) etc.

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Originally Posted by Nyaanyaa

Got Pharos in DR on WHM with a SMN, DRG and PLD. PLD and DRG quit on arrival. The DRG was replaced right away with another SMN, not so the tank. Went ahead anyway...

...and beat the first boss. New tank arrived during the fight (but was locked out), one shot everything else afterwards.

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Love it. Nothing better than wacking a boss with a mostly/totally wiped party.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Oh yes...AF2, Relic+1....cool story. Nobody doubted it's ard if you're way overgeared.

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Pharos is easier with less gear, surprisingly. ALL the bosses do things based on health %, the only reason that any of them are hard is because your DPS is so good that you are pushing phases into other phases without dealing with the first one yet. An easy example is the first boss (and probably the hardest boss when you overgear it), when he spawns 2 adds and 2 people get 1 stack of the crystal debuff each that SHOULD be close to falling off when the next adds spawn. However, if you have enough DPS, you'll push him into his next phase before they're close to falling off OR you'll push him while the first 2 adds are STILL UP. You have to literally stop DPS on him just to avoid this happening. Zu is the same thing. Too many eggs at the same time = likely she'll enrage = likely everyone will die. Siren is the most forgiving as her adds are spaced pretty far apart, but they're still on the % based timer.

The hardest hitting thing in that dungeon is the mobs that cast Bane 3. You don't need to overgear it and it's honestly so much easier to deal with the mechanics of the dungeon with LESS gear. I don't know why people think PS is so incredibly difficult, you just can't ignore the mechanics of every boss.

Doing this with pre-mades is fine, but PS in roulette is a nightmare. For some reason, the community at large doesn't seem to have learned the fights in PS the same way they have the other runs, so the odds of a face smash seem to be a lot higher. While SpookyGhost's claims have some merit, there's not much you can expect from someone who's iLVL>50. Anyone with another class that's higher would know they can't go in lowbie and expect to pull it off ... and that goes double for healers.

I'm to the point know where if anyone says they're brand new or is in less than full DL, I'll automatically vote abandon and explain why. It's just not worth an hour or more of my life to try to push new people through it again and again and again. I'll take the half-hour lockout, go fishing, and get on with things.

And this is how people never get better. We've ALL been green in a dungeon before. Not giving folks the chance to learn is what causes these unnecessary dungeon nerf pleads. Not everyone learns from just watching videos. Since the only time I'm hitting these dungeons is for my daily roulette now, I don't mind walking the group through each boss scenario, be it as my DRG or my WAR. I completely agree about it being harder with lower level gear *and honestly people should not be jumping into dungeons at the minimum iLVL, its as if you're asking for a carry from the group,* but it's still passable if you take your time. After the 1st boss, the rest of the dungeon (even Siren so long as the healer knows to keep you topped up in certain situations) is cake. When the dungeon is done, collect the 3 commendations afterwards :p

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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This guy gets it.

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Originally Posted by Bushido_Brown

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So does he.

PS isn't hard, you just have to know how to play your class and stop watching netflix.